In-House DPS Meter

Fallesafe.5932 · April 17, 2018

@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@Malediktus.9250 said:Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

I think we should be able to opt out of anyone seeing our damage.

The more that I think about it, the more I like this idea!! If players had the ability to opt out of DPS meters, then groups could insta-kick them in the fractal/raid lobby instead of suffering through half a run of their bad performance before discovering the problem.

Alex Shatter.7956 · April 17, 2018

@Ardid.7203 said:Anet should just cut for the healthiest option and simply forbid any DPS meter. Just one statement, and the problem is solved.

DPS meters are necessary and good

DeceiverX.8361 · April 17, 2018

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@GreyWolf.8670 said:Parsable combat logs would be sufficient. Just don't upload them to anyone if you don't want your data parsed. :P

I just want something that is convenient and easy to use, usable in game without having to upload to some other site, and has all the features. Honestly, arcdps is a piece of junk compared to the damage meters I used years ago in WoW. ANet could easily produce something better.

I know the players are somewhat divided on this issue. There are players who don't perform well and catch a lot of grief from others who probably wouldn't have had anything to say without a damage meter there to clue them in. But for many of us it's a legitimate tool to improve performance and makes the game more enjoyable.

I don't even raid or really do much instanced PvE at all! I'm into soloing champions and legendaries all over the world. DPS meters provide me with detailed information on my performance that I can use to evolve my build and strategy. Sure, I can do that without a meter, but I do it a lot quicker and with better results if I have better information to work with! DPS meters provide that information.

Of course, I am competitive and I like to see how I am doing relative to others and DPS meters are nice for that. What can I say but that some people aren't very nice? I don't see that as a good reason to deny players access to a great tool that we've become used to having in other MMOs for many years. If we can't approve third-party software for this purpose, then I would like ANet to build their own.

Its 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other.. you might not see it as a reason just because some players catch grief.. not everyone plays to be min maxed and super competitive so turning your reasoning over to the otherside of the fence, they may not see it as a good reason to accept the use of it if all it is doing is causing grief, which we all know it does .Personally DPS meters for personal use like you have described I have zero issue with and is a useful tool.. but in no way should there be any capability to dps meter another player in group etc without explicit consent form that player.. that way there can be no argument.

I'm going going to shamelessly quote this because I think this is the best solution.

Having a DPS meter record active play of other players accomplishes literally nothing except encourage toxic behavior. The only reason anyone should care about another players' numbers are if they intend to kick. And as we've seen numerous times, almost anything can beat a raid.

Parsable combat logs have PvP value as well which is nice, especially if timestamped.

powerbits.6235 · April 17, 2018

@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@Malediktus.9250 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@Malediktus.9250 said:Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

I think we should be able to opt out of anyone seeing our damage.

You would just get instant kicked from all groups if you opt out of DPS meter (at least from those groups who use ArcDPS already). It is very suspicious if someone wants to hide his performance from the group/squad

So, what you are saying is. If a player does not submit to elitism, then he/she would be ridiculed and excluded?

Hey, look. You can call it elitism if you want. Just like they can call you a leech for not pulling your weight. Neither is productive, and only tells a fraction of the truth!

The fact is, both sides have a perfectly valid point. If content is difficult enough that a minimum standard is required, then expecting players to meet that standard for the good of all involved is not "elitism". It's common sense. Nobody wants to waste hours wiping because they're trying to complete high end content with players who simply aren't up to the challenge.

As long as the group (or group leader) is able to communicate the issue politely, you should be able to do the adult thing, swallow your pride, and see your way out of the group. Unfortunately, as we all know, many players are neither able to communicate such issues politely nor are other players able to swallow their pride and get over themselves when they are the source of the problem.

Moral of the story: Always be polite and, if you aren't up to the task, bow out graciously before the situation turns toxic. 4 or 9 other players don't owe you a carry, no matter how much you want to complete that content. And players who aren't very skilled don't deserve your ridicule.

Simple enough, no?

This is the age of lazy, I get it. But programs in the front could help programs in the back. I was computers and periphs a long time, and a little slack leads to other problems. Such as what I have explained extensively. I am the cautious type that believes all loops can and should be closed, at least for simplicity. Simplicity is better, either be for or against it. I am against it because its an unnecessary advantage given to people who otherwise could not, and they receive undeserved rewards for it. Such as noticing the opness of Mesmer, and maining it because a program shown it as having the best bandwagon potential. For real world application take the recent hacking involving some renowned governments, I applaud the nations who are showing their hand because it will lead to a safer internet, and environment. My bad for being too engrained, I will just leave this as is. By the way, it is not ridicule to expand on a statement, it is opening debate. Something I spent years doing in college.

AliamRationem.5172 · April 17, 2018

@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@Malediktus.9250 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@Malediktus.9250 said:Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

I think we should be able to opt out of anyone seeing our damage.

You would just get instant kicked from all groups if you opt out of DPS meter (at least from those groups who use ArcDPS already). It is very suspicious if someone wants to hide his performance from the group/squad

So, what you are saying is. If a player does not submit to elitism, then he/she would be ridiculed and excluded?

Hey, look. You can call it elitism if you want. Just like they can call you a leech for not pulling your weight. Neither is productive, and only tells a fraction of the truth!

The fact is, both sides have a perfectly valid point. If content is difficult enough that a minimum standard is required, then expecting players to meet that standard for the good of all involved is not "elitism". It's common sense. Nobody wants to waste hours wiping because they're trying to complete high end content with players who simply aren't up to the challenge.

As long as the group (or group leader) is able to communicate the issue politely, you should be able to do the adult thing, swallow your pride, and see your way out of the group. Unfortunately, as we all know, many players are neither able to communicate such issues politely nor are other players able to swallow their pride and get over themselves when they are the source of the problem.

Moral of the story: Always be polite and, if you aren't up to the task, bow out graciously before the situation turns toxic. 4 or 9 other players don't owe you a carry, no matter how much you want to complete that content. And players who aren't very skilled don't deserve your ridicule.

Simple enough, no?

This is the age of lazy, I get it.

It's not clear what you mean by this.

OrbitalButt.5708 · April 17, 2018

@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@Malediktus.9250 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@Malediktus.9250 said:Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

I think we should be able to opt out of anyone seeing our damage.

You would just get instant kicked from all groups if you opt out of DPS meter (at least from those groups who use ArcDPS already). It is very suspicious if someone wants to hide his performance from the group/squad

So, what you are saying is. If a player does not submit to elitism, then he/she would be ridiculed and excluded?

Hey, look. You can call it elitism if you want. Just like they can call you a leech for not pulling your weight. Neither is productive, and only tells a fraction of the truth!

The fact is, both sides have a perfectly valid point. If content is difficult enough that a minimum standard is required, then expecting players to meet that standard for the good of all involved is not "elitism". It's common sense. Nobody wants to waste hours wiping because they're trying to complete high end content with players who simply aren't up to the challenge.

As long as the group (or group leader) is able to communicate the issue politely, you should be able to do the adult thing, swallow your pride, and see your way out of the group. Unfortunately, as we all know, many players are neither able to communicate such issues politely nor are other players able to swallow their pride and get over themselves when they are the source of the problem.

Moral of the story: Always be polite and, if you aren't up to the task, bow out graciously before the situation turns toxic. 4 or 9 other players don't owe you a carry, no matter how much you want to complete that content. And players who aren't very skilled don't deserve your ridicule.

Simple enough, no?

This is the age of lazy, I get it.

I'm pretty sure you don't

Zaklex.6308 · April 17, 2018

@blambidy.3216 said:
@Blaeys.3102 said:
Meters are not needed to enjoy any part of the game and would add very little that isn't available at the special forces training area accessible through the raid lobby.

Clearly bs. A meter is basically to keep you in check to pull your own weight. Other people spy on what the team is doing. But for me honestly I would like to know if I am helping or damaging the group. And if this meter shows, I will like it. Because it makes the team get through fractals, dungeons, raids, and pve content much easier.

After all we want to have fun and if you lounge around and make other people pull your weight, it doesn’t make the game fun. People just end up carrying and don’t want to play with you anymore.So as much as you think it doesn’t, it does. We want to be the best for our team. And sometimes we would like to keep ourselves in check for everyone to have fun.

That is your opinion, there are some people that could care less whether or not a team mate is pulling their weight...that might be fun for that person, we have to keep in mind that everyone's idea of fun is different. Especially for open world PvE, if you really care about what others are doing, then I would think that problem lies with that person, for fractals and raids it might be useful, but general PvE, I say not...and most likely not with dungeons today either, but then again, that's just my personal opinion. If others don't like it, oh well, to each their own.

Ashen.2907 · April 17, 2018

@Zaklex.6308 said:
@blambidy.3216 said:
@"Blaeys.3102" said:
Meters are not needed to enjoy any part of the game and would add very little that isn't available at the special forces training area accessible through the raid lobby.

Clearly bs. A meter is basically to keep you in check to pull your own weight. Other people spy on what the team is doing. But for me honestly I would like to know if I am helping or damaging the group. And if this meter shows, I will like it. Because it makes the team get through fractals, dungeons, raids, and pve content much easier.

After all we want to have fun and if you lounge around and make other people pull your weight, it doesn’t make the game fun. People just end up carrying and don’t want to play with you anymore.So as much as you think it doesn’t, it does. We want to be the best for our team. And sometimes we would like to keep ourselves in check for everyone to have fun.

That is your opinion, there are some people that could care less whether or not a team mate is pulling their weight...that might be fun for that person, we have to keep in mind that everyone's idea of fun is different. Especially for open world PvE, if you really care about what others are doing, then I would think that problem lies with that person, for fractals and raids it might be useful, but general PvE, I say not...and most likely not with dungeons today either, but then again, that's just my personal opinion. If others don't like it, oh well, to each their own.

To be fair, he did say, "for me," and, "I would like," and, "I will like it."

It seemed pretty clear that he was speaking from his perspective, as well as that of those with whom he plays, even if he did not preface every single sentence with, "In my opinion."

zealex.9410 · April 17, 2018

Pls no. Dont waste resources on such tool. Arc dps is fine and so long the creator stays in line there wont be any issues.

If they creator does something and the meter is no longer ok to use it will be known.

zealex.9410 · April 17, 2018

@TexZero.7910 said:
@CptAurellian.9537 said:Allowing Arc was an excellent decision. With regard to an ingame meter, no resources should be wasted on that. Third party is a perfectly fine thing and the probability that the devs would get such a meter right is close to zero. There's a reason why such stuff is always third party in games with a more reasonable stance on addons than GW2.

My understanding is that the Dev Clients used to test already have a dps meter function built in. Of course this is based solely on word of mouth and may not be accurate, but if there's any validity to that claim then its probably safe to say they don't need to allocate much resources to do port the feature from the dev tools to live.

The problem is not porting it but updating it and keeping it in a good shape with every update.

Cregath.7628 · April 17, 2018

DPS meters are kind of a neccessity nowadays. They don't provide any info that you can't figure out yourself on your own. The "elitist" players will always find a way to min-max and then clear content efficiently and cleanly and quickly. The more "casual" part of the playerbase sees this and want to do the same with less effort. This results in taking the "meta" build and playstyle and trying the same content... with worse results, BUT they still get results (hopefully). So, content is obviously getting geared towards this audience, where actually putting in this level of effort at least is a must. So, we have the other part of "casuals" who don't even want to use these builds but do that same content as the "elitists". So they come in with pretty ideas for a build that underperforms by a lot even if they execute it perfectly. The content however is geared towards the "meta people". Is that a problem? No.The problem is that people think that they should be able to do those things with whatever build they want and are envious that they can't. Am I an "elitist" now too? I don't think so. I didn't even enter the latest Raid Wing yet, but I'm working towards it, learning mechanics and build. I use Arc to see how I perform, and yes, it bugs me when in T4 Fractals I see someone who joins as a Damage Dealer and does less Damage then our Support. When I enter a group content I expect people to at least put in some effort. I mean we (all 5 of us in case of Fractals) are there to clear it. Not to pull some random guy along with us.To be a bit more on topic here: It doesn't matter at all if the DPS Meter is made by ANet or just Allowed. It IS a neccessity as thing are right now. And as long as Raids are there and they are the way they are, they will stay as such. Even if Raids aren't there, they will still be more than welcome as people already stated, there are a lot of other uses for it. Even if some people see that DPS meters are the big bad thing that gives others a reason to remove them from parties, it is undeniable that you will still be kicked as people can and will find other ways to track how everyone performs.

BlaqueFyre.5678 · April 17, 2018

@Nidome.1365 said:
@Pifil.5193 said:
@Ardid.7203 said:Anet should just cut for the healthiest option and simply forbid any DPS meter. Just one statement, and the problem is solved.

DPS meters are fine.

Only if they show you your own DPS only. Ones that show the DPS of other players are not fine.

Sorry but I’m any group setting Combat Data is all public data as stated by a Anet and it’s perfevtly fine to see all combat data

powerbits.6235 · April 17, 2018

Btw, I putting it out to my server the consensus on arcdps. everyone should download it.

Talindra.4958 · April 17, 2018

Current Arcdps meter is good. it has built template too. if people allowed to use it, then there is no need for anet to waste time making it ingame.i actually believe we need a LFG system that has the option to use auto detect for gear, kp checks etc. (lfg user can pick not to use that option for training group with exp players in it. so they can elect to manually create their group).Everyone works hard towards to improve their character, everyone should be equal at start and work the character upward. I like the lvl locking system in fractal. however it is still have flaws in it, as people can still quietly sneak their inexperienced friend into the group.everyone should be proud of their character and there is no need to hide. you work enough for your character, it will get to the level of what it is. sneaking into high exp party is just bad practice in this game.. ruin experience for many players tbh. if ppl need help to progress, they make group to request for such. and i believe with such tool we can create better community too. cos people at the same level understand the need, they work together to achieve something and they will be proud of it at the end and feel accomplished.

AliamRationem.5172 · April 18, 2018

@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@Malediktus.9250 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@Malediktus.9250 said:Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

I think we should be able to opt out of anyone seeing our damage.

You would just get instant kicked from all groups if you opt out of DPS meter (at least from those groups who use ArcDPS already). It is very suspicious if someone wants to hide his performance from the group/squad

So, what you are saying is. If a player does not submit to elitism, then he/she would be ridiculed and excluded?

Hey, look. You can call it elitism if you want. Just like they can call you a leech for not pulling your weight. Neither is productive, and only tells a fraction of the truth!

The fact is, both sides have a perfectly valid point. If content is difficult enough that a minimum standard is required, then expecting players to meet that standard for the good of all involved is not "elitism". It's common sense. Nobody wants to waste hours wiping because they're trying to complete high end content with players who simply aren't up to the challenge.

As long as the group (or group leader) is able to communicate the issue politely, you should be able to do the adult thing, swallow your pride, and see your way out of the group. Unfortunately, as we all know, many players are neither able to communicate such issues politely nor are other players able to swallow their pride and get over themselves when they are the source of the problem.

Moral of the story: Always be polite and, if you aren't up to the task, bow out graciously before the situation turns toxic. 4 or 9 other players don't owe you a carry, no matter how much you want to complete that content. And players who aren't very skilled don't deserve your ridicule.

Simple enough, no?

This is the age of lazy, I get it. But programs in the front could help programs in the back. I was computers and periphs a long time, and a little slack leads to other problems. Such as what I have explained extensively. I am the cautious type that believes all loops can and should be closed, at least for simplicity. Simplicity is better, either be for or against it. I am against it because its an unnecessary advantage given to people who otherwise could not, and they receive undeserved rewards for it. Such as noticing the opness of Mesmer, and maining it because a program shown it as having the best bandwagon potential. For real world application take the recent hacking involving some renowned governments, I applaud the nations who are showing their hand because it will lead to a safer internet, and environment. My bad for being too engrained, I will just leave this as is. By the way, it is not ridicule to expand on a statement, it is opening debate. Something I spent years doing in college.

If this is how you interact with people in the game, you've only gotten back what you've given out. Perhaps you should spend a little less time judging people based upon the music playing in your head and a little more time listening to what they have to say?

First, I don't care one little bit about your silly "slippery slope" argument. How about we cross that bridge when we come to it?

Second, I chose Mirage because my favorite playstyles are always highly mobile. I tend to dislike classes like necromancer that rely mainly on passive defense and have low mobility as a result. Ironic, because necromancer is and always has been a contender for open world "meta". It's easily the most effortlessly survivable class! It's a wonder I'm not playing it!

Third, if you think my rewards are so "undeserved", I would love to see your legendary solo videos some time!

And finally, when I spoke of players not deserving your ridicule it was a generalized "your", not directed at YOU personally. In other words, what I meant was that I agree with you that there is no reason for people to be unkind to each other over something as inconsequential as damage output in a video game. But I'm guessing English isn't your first language, so I apologize for not being clear enough in my wording.

that is a personal attack... if that is how you sell your ideology, I feel sorry for you.

Ah, I see. So you can call me lazy and my triumphs undeserved, but somehow pointing out to you that you get what you give is a personal attack? I think we're done here.

AliamRationem.5172 · April 18, 2018

@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@Malediktus.9250 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@Malediktus.9250 said:Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

I think we should be able to opt out of anyone seeing our damage.

You would just get instant kicked from all groups if you opt out of DPS meter (at least from those groups who use ArcDPS already). It is very suspicious if someone wants to hide his performance from the group/squad

So, what you are saying is. If a player does not submit to elitism, then he/she would be ridiculed and excluded?

Hey, look. You can call it elitism if you want. Just like they can call you a leech for not pulling your weight. Neither is productive, and only tells a fraction of the truth!

The fact is, both sides have a perfectly valid point. If content is difficult enough that a minimum standard is required, then expecting players to meet that standard for the good of all involved is not "elitism". It's common sense. Nobody wants to waste hours wiping because they're trying to complete high end content with players who simply aren't up to the challenge.

As long as the group (or group leader) is able to communicate the issue politely, you should be able to do the adult thing, swallow your pride, and see your way out of the group. Unfortunately, as we all know, many players are neither able to communicate such issues politely nor are other players able to swallow their pride and get over themselves when they are the source of the problem.

Moral of the story: Always be polite and, if you aren't up to the task, bow out graciously before the situation turns toxic. 4 or 9 other players don't owe you a carry, no matter how much you want to complete that content. And players who aren't very skilled don't deserve your ridicule.

Simple enough, no?

This is the age of lazy, I get it. But programs in the front could help programs in the back. I was computers and periphs a long time, and a little slack leads to other problems. Such as what I have explained extensively. I am the cautious type that believes all loops can and should be closed, at least for simplicity. Simplicity is better, either be for or against it. I am against it because its an unnecessary advantage given to people who otherwise could not, and they receive undeserved rewards for it. Such as noticing the opness of Mesmer, and maining it because a program shown it as having the best bandwagon potential. For real world application take the recent hacking involving some renowned governments, I applaud the nations who are showing their hand because it will lead to a safer internet, and environment. My bad for being too engrained, I will just leave this as is. By the way, it is not ridicule to expand on a statement, it is opening debate. Something I spent years doing in college.

If this is how you interact with people in the game, you've only gotten back what you've given out. Perhaps you should spend a little less time judging people based upon the music playing in your head and a little more time listening to what they have to say?

First, I don't care one little bit about your silly "slippery slope" argument. How about we cross that bridge when we come to it?

Second, I chose Mirage because my favorite playstyles are always highly mobile. I tend to dislike classes like necromancer that rely mainly on passive defense and have low mobility as a result. Ironic, because necromancer is and always has been a contender for open world "meta". It's easily the most effortlessly survivable class! It's a wonder I'm not playing it!

Third, if you think my rewards are so "undeserved", I would love to see your legendary solo videos some time!

And finally, when I spoke of players not deserving your ridicule it was a generalized "your", not directed at YOU personally. In other words, what I meant was that I agree with you that there is no reason for people to be unkind to each other over something as inconsequential as damage output in a video game. But I'm guessing English isn't your first language, so I apologize for not being clear enough in my wording.

sorry guy, but personal attacks do not gain points with me. A debate however, should be equal. I disagree on your meter, you agree with it. so be it.

You should think for a moment before hitting post. Your edit was much more reasonable. I see no personal attacks in anything I've said to you. But I agree that we can agree to disagree.

powerbits.6235 · April 18, 2018

@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@Malediktus.9250 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@Malediktus.9250 said:Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.