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Change downed skills for Warrior


Skill.3260

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Been thinking this for a long time but never gotten around to post it.. until now.As of now, Warrior have probably the worst downed skills in the game.

We have a rock that deal some damage, a hammer throw that knock down enemies, vengeance (make us rally for 15secs before we die) and the bandage skill to res our self. The hammer throw will only hit 1 enemy, and it can be reflected, blocked, ignored. When it comes to Vengeance, it only give us a chance to rally even though we use it.. so its almost same as dying. Let us look at some other professions..Guardian:Push nearby foes back. (5 Targets) ; Draw a symbol on the ground that heals allies and damages foes. (5 Targets)Elementalist:Assume a mobile, vaporous form, returning to a downed state when the effect ends. ; Immobilize your foe with hands erupting from the ground.Ranger:Damages your target and dazes foes around that target. ; Revive your pet at your location to revive you.

We have had the same downed skills since 2012 (with an addition to PvE with season 3). But we have gotten 1 new profession and 18 elite specs since then and I personally, think it would be nice with some new downed skills.. or at least, make some changes to the ones we currently have. Would like to hear other peoples opinion on this.

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@ReV.6097 said:Skill 3 on downed Warr is weird as hell, to me at least.Sometimes killing a mob or boss will reset it and I won't die after 15 seconds, other times.... no matter what I do, still I die from it.

lol because it only has 33% or 50% (not sure) to rallye you on kill, so its luck, you can even trait it for 100% rallye on kill. so nothing weird about it

hammerthrow is awfull, so easy to stomp, rangerpets most of the time will just soak it up by just standing in front of the ranger

thief even has 2 ways to deny stomp and do more dmg while downed

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@"Blocki.4931" said:I'd love to see that hammer throw turned into a shout or something that stuns in a small aoe or something. Would still make thematic sense and not cross into guardian territory flavor wise

"Fear me! " while in downstate could be cool ;D

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Vengeance is actually one of the better skills IMO. It gives you a decent chance to completely turn things around since you can wait out just before the stomp, then vengeance, stun immediately and see if you can down your opponent.I agree it's completely RNG on whether you stay alive after, but the 15 seconds of borrowed time/second life can be so useful. The baseline for rally on kill is 25% and increased to 50% if you trait it (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vengeful_Return) which I don't think anyone does.For me, the best luck with this was 3(!!) vengeance rallies in a row while contesting a far point 2v1. People tend to drop their guard and forget about stability when they've downed you.

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@"Skill.3260" said:We have had the same downed skills since 2012 (with an addition to PvE with season 3). But we have gotten 1 new profession and 18 elite specs since then and I personally, think it would be nice with some new downed skills.. or at least, make some changes to the ones we currently have. Would like to hear other peoples opinion on this.

The only thing that could improve the warriors' downed skill is to make Vengeance not having to rely on RNG. Let's say you get downed, you use Vengeance, you kill someone and the timer on that condition no longer ticks for you to die. This would be far better as I have had many instances in PvP where I used Vengeance, I killed someone and I survived. Another thing is to remove the Hammer Toss skill and replace it with the shout skill "Fear Me!". Sure, it's a useless shout skill, but I think it would be a lot better than Hammer Toss as a downed skill rather than a utility skill.

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@Hoodie.1045 said:

@"Skill.3260" said:We have had the same downed skills since 2012 (with an addition to PvE with season 3). But we have gotten 1 new profession and 18 elite specs since then and I personally, think it would be nice with some new downed skills.. or at least, make some changes to the ones we currently have. Would like to hear other peoples opinion on this.

The only thing that could improve the warriors' downed skill is to make Vengeance not having to rely on RNG. Let's say you get downed, you use Vengeance, you kill someone and the timer on that condition no longer ticks for you to die.That would be too OP - the free 15 seconds is a decent mechanic and often enough time to down an unsuspecting foe. If this was changed this to 100% rally it would become too much, especially in team fights. The choice to use Vengeance is one of taking a risk/gamble - in a teamfight, you pick it if you know your team can't res you, knowing that you
must
down somebody to be in with a chance of surviving.Another thing is to remove the Hammer Toss skill and replace it with the shout skill "Fear Me!". Sure, it's a useless shout skill, but I think it would be a lot better than Hammer Toss as a downed skill rather than a utility skill.AOE
Fear
is the necro downed skill so probably they wouldn't want to copy that. Also AOE CC + Vengeance is way better (IMO) by comparison than any other class downed skill set.

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@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:If they made Vengeance 100% get up if you kill something they'd have to get rid of Vengeful Return. That wouldn't be horrible though because nobody takes the trait and we're the only one with a trait like that (that I know of).

I am using this trait in pve when I feel I can be downed. Else warrior sprint like most of you.

Vengeful return also improves rally: (any rally, it counts !)50% health instead of 25100% endurance instead of 0

My main issue is vengeance is useless in pve without trait (25% is ridiculous...).But it becomes very good with trait. I have tried it a lot and it saved me countless times.

I would rather have 100% to rally baseline, with a 10s timer (vs 15 currently).Traited vengeance would bring timer to 20s (at least, and maybe add a 10% damage boost during that time ? )

Anyways, it is awkward to take a downstate trait...

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if i encounter a warrior that turns on vengueful return i just walk away, waving at him as he drops dead, same happens when i try to use it...often enough i cant even use it because the hammer interrupt is so easy to counter, blinds, blocks or just othet dumb stuff standing between you and the one you try to interrupt)of you (im looking at you, annoying ranger pets, happens every single time geez)

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@Aigleborgne.2981 said:My main issue is vengeance is useless in pve without trait (25% is ridiculous...).This is situational, if you're in a position with lots of trash mobs, it's perfectly fine - every kill is another 25% roll of the dice so the majority of the time it will trigger. If you're against a single champ+ mob, maybe not so good, but then just try not to go down.

@RedShark.9548 said:if i encounter a warrior that turns on vengueful return i just walk away.

Absolutely the best tactic. Some people forget that during the 15 secs the warrior has to essentially fight for their life, down AND finish their opponent, and will not be able to cap/decap so leaving the area is the safest bet in a 1v1 scenario.

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@MarshallLaw.9260 said:This is situational, if you're in a position with lots of trash mobs, it's perfectly fine - every kill is another 25% roll of the dice so the majority of the time it will trigger. If you're against a single champ+ mob, maybe not so good, but then just try not to go down.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I haven't thought about this :)Still, when I might get downed (in pve), I usually pick the trait because warrior sprint doesnt bring much in a fight (except vs monsters that frequently immobilize). Granted, it is tedious to swap traits every 5mn.

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@Aigleborgne.2981 said:

@"MarshallLaw.9260" said:This is situational, if you're in a position with lots of trash mobs, it's perfectly fine - every kill is another 25% roll of the dice so the majority of the time it will trigger. If you're against a single champ+ mob, maybe not so good, but then just try not to go down.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I haven't thought about this :)Still, when I might get downed (in pve), I usually pick the trait because warrior sprint doesnt bring much in a fight (except vs monsters that frequently immobilize). Granted, it is tedious to swap traits every 5mn.

The other passive from warriors sprint is not too bad:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Sprint" deal increased damage while you have swiftness - damage Increase: 7%"Given that there are plenty of sources of swiftness if you have allies, this is actually a decent % increase for a Major Adept trait. This contributes to why it's considered to be superior.

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@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@Aigleborgne.2981 said:My main issue is vengeance is useless in pve without trait (25% is ridiculous...).This is situational, if you're in a position with lots of trash mobs, it's perfectly fine - every kill is another 25% roll of the dice so the majority of the time it will trigger. If you're against a single champ+ mob, maybe not so good, but then just try not to go down.

remember not all trash mobs even count

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@"MarshallLaw.9260" said:The other passive from warriors sprint is not too bad:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Sprint" deal increased damage while you have swiftness - damage Increase: 7%"Given that there are plenty of sources of swiftness if you have allies, this is actually a decent % increase for a Major Adept trait. This contributes to why it's considered to be superior.

I am mainly playing solo in OW these days so swiftness is quite rare. I am using Axe mastery, but Burst mastery couple with Warrior Sprint might quite good.Still, 7% damage won't save me in a tough situation while Vengeful Return will. As OP said, downed skills 1 et 2 are very bad. Most of the times, I can't kill anything fast enough while downed. Vengeance is my only real option and usually, I get downed when most of the mobs are dead, so I can't really rely on those 25%.When fighting a champion with some random people, vengeful return helps again when someone rallies me : 25% more health and full endurance often allows me to survive enough to recover.My tactic is to swap between those traits very frequently and it works fine this way.

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@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:Honestly Vengeance is such kitten. I often Vengeance, kill like 4-5 guys (in WvW ofc) and it STILL won't rally me and I die. Yeah we could trait Vengeance but who in their right mind would do that over Warrior Sprint.

In WwW, nobody. But in PvE, it has its uses !The main issue is that vengeance is almost useless without trait...

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Vengeance rally should be 100% regardless of the trait. They can just rework the trait into something new to actually be a worthwhile contender for Warrior's sprint.

The hammer seems rarely to actually knock anyone down. Maybe some kind of launch could replace it?

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What if they re-designed it so that:~Player uses Vengeance.A: (vengeance becomes 30 seconds instead of 15).Or/AndB: When all enemies attacking you are dead ( or have stopped or fled) you no longer will die from vengeance.

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@ReV.6097 said:What if they re-designed it so that:~Player uses Vengeance.A: (vengeance becomes 30 seconds instead of 15).Or/AndB: When all enemies attacking you are dead ( or have stopped or fled) you no longer will die from vengeance.

so when you get out of combat while in vengeance youd get the full revive? would be kinda opalso doesnt fit the theme of the vengeance when running is an option to stay alive

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@RedShark.9548 said:

@"ReV.6097" said:What if they re-designed it so that:~Player uses Vengeance.A: (vengeance becomes 30 seconds instead of 15).Or/AndB: When all enemies attacking you are dead ( or have stopped or fled) you no longer will die from vengeance.

so when you get out of combat while in vengeance youd get the full revive? would be kinda opalso doesnt fit the theme of the vengeance when running is an option to stay alive

Would be nice if Vengeance would work like the Gw1 version.You Rally and get on a timer. While you under the Timer you deal more dmg/are faster.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Vengeance

Or just make the Vengeful Return better.

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I would only change this:Throw hammer unblockable.Vengeance: Chance to rally after a succesful kill 100% .If you couldnt kill a target you go downstate with quarter of your health you had before using vengeance. The vengeance trait should have this effect: When going downstate vengeance is automatically available, when you leave vengeance you have a higher healthpoool. Dunno if this should get an ICD but ofc vengeance only recharges if you would go down normally and not with vengeance active.

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