More Condi in WvW

[Babytater.6803]

@Sethanon Stormrage.6721 I assume he still plays because he wrote that article in August. A map queue of power or condi is going to hurt no matter the damage type. WvW is all about adapting.

[CrimeMaker.8612]

People in this post are saying that PoF introduced so much conditions to WvW.

No it was HoT that introduced so much conditions to WvW and the rest of the game because Arena nets favorite game mode called raids which has a community smaller than WvW.

During the 2 years of HoT conditions only got buffed and power kept getting nerfed with every single balance patch.

All PoF did was introduce more conditions and corrupts via scourge. More burn via firebrand. More strips via speallbreaker (if you stand in that elite winds of disenchantment you get no boons and all boons are striped. If you also have a lot of conditions on you while standing in that dome you are dead. No way out.) More condis like bleeding and others from recenants elite. Etc.

For WvW to be fun again. Zerg fights to be fun again. Meta to be fun again. WvW to start reviving itself. Condition damage and stacking needs to get reverted back to the way they were pre-hot.

Condition damage builds aren't fun to play nor play against. They require no skill. They are braindead. Condition damage is suppose to be small amount of damage over time not crazy dps like power. Power should always be the main dps source while condition being the small damage over time.

Make my game mode fun again please.

[dawsm.5398]

@Babytater.6803 said:@Turk.5460 and @primatos.5413 I know condi's can hurt a lot of you just get a bunch dumped on you, but with the right builds and play styles , you can ignore condi's . I'm not saying that conditions can't be overpowered. Sure, if you have a zerg of 30 people running condi, you will get slammed with condi's and die. But that will also happen if you have a zerg of 30 people running power and full boons. There are multiple ways to play WvW.

I'm sorry, but this argument is fallacious at worst and silly at best. It reads as if you're talking about groups with a disparity in numbers, and no one is even taking about that. Of course, in 1 - 5 vs 30, 10 vs 30, or 15 vs 30 situations, the larger group is going to win regardless of their composition. Heck, even in a 20 vs 30 fight the win should easily go to the larger group unless the smaller is a tightly managed guild comp and the larger is a collection of randoms.

No, what folks in this thread have been discussing is that if all other factors are held equal (commander skill, individual player skill, gear level, collective connection quality to the server, client reponsiveness...etc), a group of 30 condi-focused boon corrupters will eat a boon-heavy, power-focused group of 30 alive; it won't even be a contest. That is not balance.

I actually read the rather verbose post from the Piken Square forum that you linked earlier in the thread. The author isn't without good points, and they seem to have a fairly decent grasp of things. However, that post doesn't seem to take into account the heights that condi damage and application have been pushed to in response to PvE needs. The attempts to make condition builds viable in various PvE modes has breezed right by what the author of that post hoped for, and landed us in one of the proposed negative outcomes. Namely, that PoF has buffed condi too much, and that small scale and roaming is suffering because of it. However, all the added boon-hate has landed us in the situation of larger groups suffering for it as well.

That is why as many of us are not simply asking Anet to nerf condi to the ground, we are asking for WvW balance to be separated from all PvE modes. Too many times, changes have rolled into PvE and the state of WvW has suffered for it; only to be addressed much later down the road, if ever addressed at all. Condi damage absolutely needs to be addressed in WvW, perhaps boon application does as well. But, neither issue is going to be resolved while WvW balance is dragged along with PvE.

[Jana.6831]

@CrimeMaker.8612 said:People in this post are saying that PoF introduced so much conditions to WvW.No it was HoT that introduced so much conditions to WvW and the rest of the game because Arena nets favorite game mode called raids which has a community smaller >than WvW.During the 2 years of HoT conditions only got buffed and power kept getting nerfed with every single balance patch.

The raw power damage was also buffed. It was powercreep all around and conditions isn't the only thing that is a problem in wvw. Apharma said it already, no idea if in this thread.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@atheria.2837 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@kathy.8291 said:I love how 23 people voted to keep it the way it is. They are probably on a BLOb server that all they use is condi LOL

I voted to keep it for the lewls. <3

It's not funny, it's hurting a very special mode, so why are you laughing at a serious issue?

It is serious to be sure. However...to say condi is the only issue is short sighted. To be honest it's spam, or actions per minute. From Original Guild Wars 2 to Heart of Thorns the potential actions per minute went up (spam). A normal thief couldn't pretend to spam evade/stealth/mobility as much as a daredevil. A necro couldn't pretend to spam chill like a Reaper (and the effects linked to it, e.g. bleeding/vuln...). A normal ele couldn't dream of spamming auras/boons like a tempest. PoF adds even more spam to "address" the previous spam. As probably noted already, Spellbreaker spams boon removal. Hilariously, Scourge is able to spam barrier while maintaining similar condi pressure/boon rip similar to Reapers. The base guardian can't out put boons like the Firebrand. At least power Revs can still spam hammer 2 3 5 1111111 and passively spam random boons. Woot.

Of course...what happens when we add more spam? You guessed it! Server lag. The bested way to break immersion. So even without lag...the current meta is the few guilds that got their melee train together can push/dodge spell breaker bubbles or people are pirate shipping because they are scared of dying on inc. Sounds like the start of HoT to me. Huh.

[kathy.8291]

All I can say is that I really hope Anet realizes what is going on with the WvW community. We thought it was bad after HoT with Epi, it is worse than before. But I do know the way it keeps going, alot of people will be leaving WvW.

[Sovereign.1093]

time to buff condi but have cap as it did before to ensure it is equivalent to power =)

[Mikau.6920]

Not only on WvW, but on PvE as well. Power builds are useless compared to Condi.

[jul.7602]

Nerf condi.

[Noyalty.7849]

@roamzero.9486 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:They've also systematically removed a lot of the good spiking power builds or nerfed them while constantly bumping power-based mitigation. There's very little incentive to bother.

Do you even play WvW? You've never encountered those glass Mesmers that one shot almost anything? or those Warriors that can down you in one rotation after a stunlock?

True but they have to run full glass canon to do this not like condi builds that are doing same damage while full tank.

[apharma.3741]

@Noyalty.7849 said:

@roamzero.9486 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:They've also systematically removed a lot of the good spiking power builds or nerfed them while constantly bumping power-based mitigation. There's very little incentive to bother.

Do you even play WvW? You've never encountered those glass Mesmers that one shot almost anything? or those Warriors that can down you in one rotation after a stunlock?

True but they have to run full glass canon to do this not like condi builds that are doing same damage while full tank.

To add to this as one of those glass mesmers, you can literally die to 3-4 bleeds if no cleanse available from a necro as well as most classes able to kill you with 5 auto attacks, heaven help you if you get hit by a counter burst as you’re likely to be down. You think thieves are annoying on whatever class you run? Glass mesmer gets hit for 9k BS from marauder, 3 parts of the auto will kill you, you’re dead in less than 1s. You think stunlock or other glass mesmers are annoying on you’re class? Go play a glass mesmer and see how long you last, assuming you play a build with any genitalia at all instead of these wussy all defence builds you see from many people.

[patton the great.7126]

More Condi's please. I think we should Add Burn type number's to Fear as well. Maybe increase Torment and Bleed's potency. Give chill it's damage back as well. If I can't play my fricken beloved Power Zerker anymore, NO classes should be able to play and enjoy their fricken Power builds....Dr Evil laugh MUHAHAHHA.....muhahahaMUhahaha.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

As someone who mains a daredevil (DPS), I have had little issues with the added condi PoF brought. Same for my Soulbeast (DPS as well).

Granted condi's are strong, however once I adapted my build, tweaked it and crunched the numbers (ya know....adapt like real gamers do), I win most of my fights vs condi builds (not all but most). If you adapt and are willing to change, then you could have it in the bag.

[Aeolus.3615]

@patton the great.7126 said:More Condi's please. I think we should Add Burn type number's to Fear as well. Maybe increase Torment and Bleed's potency. Give chill it's damage back as well. If I can't play my fricken beloved Power Zerker anymore, NO classes should be able to play and enjoy their fricken Power builds....Dr Evil laugh MUHAHAHHA.....muhahahaMUhahaha.

obtuse comment :angry:sadly thats the Anet recipe, some classes really sacrifice some part of their surviability to go damage as in mellee that was making the game to diffucult for bad player, Anet decided to give condi super spam where that would make bad players look good and dont drop the game, less effort, more motivation to play.

For some reason GW2 is one of the worst pvp game in mmo history... and a mediocre PVE with good graphics, the game is only designed to carry players with the gimmicks and make players atached to that cause the game cant offer much more than that...

I said during HoT it would become worse with more spam.. Welcome to the age of lamer wars...sponsored by the awfull Anet.

IF WvW players are really into PVE why keep borking up and making mistakes after mistakes into PVE??????? that lack of vision.. ANet...

P.S.... the lame wars has another problem.. on larger group fights ill ic is bright light on the screen due your graphical polution to cater the skrits playign this game, u guys even lost track of that.... theres already to much shiny crap on the game.Anet should release a book how to make a good mmo a bad mmo version 2, or how to ruin your own game.

[Turk.5460]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:As someone who mains a daredevil (DPS), I have had little issues with the added condi PoF brought. Same for my Soulbeast (DPS as well).

Granted condi's are strong, however once I adapted my build, tweaked it and crunched the numbers (ya know....adapt like real gamers do), I win most of my fights vs condi builds (not all but most). If you adapt and are willing to change, then you could have it in the bag.

This is not helpful to the current conversation. I also main Daredevil, and find it easy to overcome condi opponents, considering any power daredevil build can become anti-condi simply by swapping 1 to 3 traits, depending on your opponent. No utilities need to be swapped, no weapons need to be swapped. Just 1, 2 or 3 traits. And by doing so, we still retain a kit able to overcome power-based opponents as well. Something that cannot be said about a majority of the other professions. If they want to build to fight condi opponents, they will mostly be eaten by power opponents.

Please consider more than just what you main, and that this topic isn't only regarding solo/small scale roaming. Most of the posts seem to be referring to moderate to larger battles, where Daredevils aren't going to be anyway.

[theodon.6215]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@"patton the great.7126" said:More Condi's please. I think we should Add Burn type number's to Fear as well. Maybe increase Torment and Bleed's potency. Give chill it's damage back as well. If I can't play my fricken beloved Power Zerker anymore, NO classes should be able to play and enjoy their fricken Power builds....

Dr Evil laugh

MUHAHAHHA.....muhahahaMUhahaha.

obtuse comment :angry:sadly thats the Anet recipe, some classes really sacrifice some part of their surviability to go damage as in mellee that was making the game to diffucult for bad player, Anet decided to give condi super spam where that would make bad players look good and dont drop the game, less effort, more motivation to play.

For some reason GW2 is one of the worst pvp game in mmo history... and a mediocre PVE with good graphics, the game is only designed to carry players with the gimmicks and make players atached to that cause the game cant offer much more than that...

I said during HoT it would become worse with more spam.. Welcome to the age of lamer wars...sponsored by the awfull Anet.

IF WvW players are really into PVE why keep borking up and making mistakes after mistakes into PVE??????? that lack of vision.. ANet...

P.S.... the lame wars has another problem.. on larger group fights ill ic is bright light on the screen due your graphical polution to cater the skrits playign this game, u guys even lost track of that.... theres already to much shiny crap on the game.Anet should release a book how to make a good mmo a bad mmo version 2, or how to ruin your own game.

If it's so awful, why are you here on the forums posting about it?

Also, saying "Anet sucks at everything" isn't going to contribute to the changes most of us want.

[XenesisII.1540]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:As someone who mains a daredevil (DPS), I have had little issues with the added condi PoF brought. Same for my Soulbeast (DPS as well).

Granted condi's are strong, however once I adapted my build, tweaked it and crunched the numbers (ya know....adapt like real gamers do), I win most of my fights vs condi builds (not all but most). If you adapt and are willing to change, then you could have it in the bag.

Oh look guys my spec can do it why can't you?Cause yeah every class is built with equal access condition clears and support boons.

@patton the great.7126 said:More Condi's please. I think we should Add Burn type number's to Fear as well. Maybe increase Torment and Bleed's potency. Give chill it's damage back as well. If I can't play my fricken beloved Power Zerker anymore, NO classes should be able to play and enjoy their fricken Power builds....Dr Evil laugh MUHAHAHHA.....muhahahaMUhahaha.

I too support this and will be subscribing to your newletter.If they want to go that direction then might as well go all in, hell I want npcs to be casting as much conditions as players, let the pve people enjoy it too since they love it so much.

[Nuzt.7894]

They could easily bandaid it without overhauling the entire mode. Resistance should be exactly what its name is, it shouldn't be immunity, it should resist a portion of the dmg, say cuts condi dmg in half for arguments sake. Then make it an effect vs a boon where it can't be corrupted or stripped, condi dmg would still get through but to a lesser extent. Complete immunity and resistance are two entirely different things, a water resistant watch or phone can get wet but you can't take it snorkling unless it's water proof.

So now condi's are still relevant but so is resistance and it's not some absurd form of invulnerability to condi's. Would it be the magical fix to the issue ? Nope, but it would be a reasonably easy bandaid until the figured out something better.

[mist.9807]

Anet is already well aware of how there's a large amount of players who hate condi. Even if they don't read every post they're not going to miss thread after thread complaining about it. Despite all of this, most of the new specs are built to be really strong with condi so it's kinda obvious how they stand.

But threads like this are useless. "Nerf condi pls" doesn't help in any regard. What are they supposed to nerf, and how? They can't just take a huge nerf hammer to all condition damage without reworking every class and a lot of weapons, among other things. When you have actual suggestions as to how to fix the problem, then make a discussion. Until then more useful threads in the WvW section are just going to get drowned out by the constant flood of these ones.

[Nuzt.7894]

There are no such threads. I'd say this is a pretty important thread, sure it could have started out more productive but I'd say from the responses it's a pretty big concern. Anet rarely does anything whether its picture perfect constructive in every way or not so I can see why people don't bother trying to be constructive anymore. This thread shouldn't have had to rear its ugly head if internal testing was done correctly but here we are.

[TyPin.9860]

@kathy.8291 said:I love how 23 people voted to keep it the way it is. They are probably on a BLOb server that all they use is condi LOL

I voted to keep it. Because roaming with Chrono or Mirage (both power, both full zerker glass) I don't have so much problems with condies. Some builds are annoying, when they have high stealth uptime + high condi burst, but other than that I'll rather fight a condi build, than a GS + Axe/Shield Warrior...

[TyPin.9860]

@Swamurabi.7890 said:

@Hana.8143 said:

@Swamurabi.7890 said:Boons + Condis = LAG

Me in 2015 : We need less conditions cause it's killing WvW.Developer : Hold my beer, and also, NO.Me in 2017 : We need less conditions cause WvW is dead.

I wonder when the first group comp calls for cleanse 1, cleanse 2 and cleanse 3

What would be wrong with that?

[coglin.1496]

@Strages.2950 said:

You can't block or blind conditions that have already been applied, I should have been clearer. ALSO for instance shout necros use the aoe shout that makes your skills unblock able and then dish out their condi un burst.

You cannot block or blind direct damage that has already been applied, so what is your point. Skills land, they apply damage. Some apply it all at once, others apply it over time. Both apply it after the skill has been landed. Your comparison is irrational and illogical.

You can still dodge "unblockable" skills as well as apply blinds that prevent those skills from landing.

Almost every single defensive tactic or action in this game that defends against or negates direct damage does the same for conditions damage. only condition damage is also negated by cleanses and resistance.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:As someone who mains a daredevil (DPS), I have had little issues with the added condi PoF brought. Same for my Soulbeast (DPS as well).

Granted condi's are strong, however once I adapted my build, tweaked it and crunched the numbers (ya know....adapt like real gamers do), I win most of my fights vs condi builds (not all but most). If you adapt and are willing to change, then you could have it in the bag.

This is not helpful to the current conversation. I also main Daredevil, and find it easy to overcome condi opponents, considering any power daredevil build can become anti-condi simply by swapping 1 to 3 traits, depending on your opponent. No utilities need to be swapped, no weapons need to be swapped. Just 1, 2 or 3 traits. And by doing so, we still retain a kit able to overcome power-based opponents as well. Something that cannot be said about a majority of the other professions. If they want to build to fight condi opponents, they will mostly be eaten by power opponents.

Please consider more than just what you main, and that this topic isn't only regarding solo/small scale roaming. Most of the posts seem to be referring to moderate to larger battles, where Daredevils aren't going to be anyway.

How bout me seeing spellbreakers and DH wiping the floor with condi builds? Cannot say they are not moderate to large battle worthy :pensive:

My overall point (which you seemed to have missed btw) still stands. Every class is viable in moderate to large fights in skilled hands. Hell Ive even seen scrappers take on condi builds in larger fights (and dont mention weavers...like dayum. healing and clears and CC's OH MY).

Learn to adapt your build and dont always 100% rely on whats meta and you are golden.

[patton the great.7126]

The honest truth is in order for true balance to occur we must make it so bad that they can't do anything but buff power even if they don't want to reduce Condi's. I mean sure there are a few gimmick power builds that can work, but if you get someone who is decent playing against you with one of the Condi spam specs then 9 times out of 10 Condi's will win, and the 1 time power will win is due to the Condi player DCing, and even then the 30 stacks of bleed and torment will get ya. As someone said earlier, Power builds have to take and modify their builds to match and defend against Condi's, meanwhile Condi's can pretty much run what ever they like aslong as they A. Know how to kite and B. know how to spam 12345 heal.

I SAY BRING ON THE CONDI's Lets torment/chill/fear/bleed/Confuse/poison/burn it to the ground!