Are you actually using 20 skills? Any tips for newbie?

[Runo.3780]

Hey, I'm just starting this class and tbh it's a little overwhelming - 20 skills, especially the 2nd weapon skills... I dont actually have idea when to use them so I rarely use them, the two Legends I'm capable of use though sometimes I forget to use some skills.Any tips on playing this class? Do you actually use all 20 skills or only part of them? Do you have some main skills that you use and other are pretty much situatiional?

[otto.5684]

Several of the skills do not have much use in PvE. I will stick with power herald. Glint is used to gain boons. You barely cast or will need to cast anything there, beside activating the passive boon generation (mainly might and fury). Shiro, you use phase traverse. Everything else is a waste of energy in open world PvE. It is easy as well to maintain 25 stacks of might and 100% uptime on fury and swiftness (and protection if you want to). I use facet of nature off CD. Sword 2, 4 and 5 off CD. I do not use sword 3 unless I need the evasion. It is actually pretty boring. Staff is dps loss. Mainly used for CC.

In group PvE it is different. You will use impossible odds instead of phase traverse mostly for shiro, And from glint, whichever boon your group is lacking (rarely though). Just AA and sword 2,4 and 5 off CD.

I would advise you to visit GW2 meta website for rev PvE power build, if you are not familiar with the setup.

PvP is a different story. Too complex to explain here, and if you are new to the game, rev is not a good class to start your PvP experience with.

Condi build is a bit more complex, but not much really.

[Runo.3780]

I play condi, but I'm only lvl 30.I done this simple setup:Mace + swordHammerthough hammer is there just because I don't know what to use as 2nd weapon.I use Assasin and Dwarf.

[Knighthonor.4061]

For leveling you not going to need all your skills. Stick to one weapon unless danger comes. Stick to one legend unless you need a heal. You are at a disadvantage until you get your Elite Specs at 80.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

You do use all 20 skills. However, it is simpler than you think. I'm assuming this is all in PVE:

Skills 1-5 are the weapon skills. For the most part, these just do damage. Sometimes they do crowd control. If you're in melee range you'll want to use the melee weapons (sword, staff, mace) and at range you'll use ranged weapons (hammer, shortbow). I'll give a short list of damage skills later.

Skill 6 is your heal skill. For the most part, you just use this when your health is low. The only exception to this are while while in legendary centaur stance, in which case it just moves the tablet around.

Skills 7-10 are utility skills. For the most part, you won't really be using most of these all that often. They're called "utilities" because you use them when they're the right tool for the job. Each legend usually has one that is used for DPS, and the other ones are for situational stuff.

---

As far as weapons go, here are the notes.

For Power DPS, you'll want to use sword + sword. Use Sword 2, Sword 4, and Sword 5 when they are off cooldown, since they do the most damage. Sword 3 is used to dodge big incoming attacks.

For condition DPS, you'll want to use Mace + Axe. Use Mace 2, Mace 3, and Axe 5 whenever they're off cooldown, since they do the most damage. Axe 4 just moves you to an enemy. Note that Axe 5 is a hard CC skill, so use it to break defiance bars.

For ranged power DPS, use the hammer. Spam hammer 2 and hammer 3 when you can, because they do the most damage. Hammer 3 is also an evasion skill. Hammer 5 is a hard crowd control, and hammer 4 sets up a wall that stops projectiles.

It'll take awhile to get the shortbow, so don't worry about that for now. The staff is just a lower power weapon used mostly for healing builds, but for know all you need to know is that Staff 5 is one of the best Crowd Control skills in the game, as far as Defiance Bar damage goes.

---

For the utilities, it all comes down to the legends. The utilities can shuffle their placement around, so I"ll have to call them by name.

To do the most power DPS is pretty easy. You'll want to use Dwarf Stance and Assassin Stance. While in Assassin Stance, switch on impossible odds. While in Dwarf Stance, switch on Vengeful hammers. This will boost your DPS significantly. What you want to do is, while in combat, constantly swap between these two legends while keeping those two skills active. Every time you swap legends you get 50 energy back, so you'll have to swap a lot to maintain energy.

Condi DPS is a bit more difficult. You'll have to unlock the Renegade to get a second condition based legend, at which point you'll probably know the class well by then. But, for now, you'll want to use Demon Stance. You'll want to switch on Embrace the Darkness while in Demon stance. As for the other legend, either Dwarf or Assassin stance will work.

For the utility of the utilities...

Assassin's Stance:Phase Transferal just moves you toward your enemy. Not particularly useful. Just use Impossible odds for more damage.Riposting Shadow rolls you backward. The most important thing about this skill is that it is a stun break. You'll rarely use this, though. Especially after you unlock the Invocation specialization.Jade Winds: This one is a pretty wide Crowd Control. It's a bit difficult to use, since it requires 50 energy. For DPS you'll largely want to avoid this skill.

Dwarf Stance:Inspiring Reinforcement: This lays down an area that constantly gives stability to yourself and allies. The only time you'll use this is if you're fighting an enemy that throws you around a lot.Forced Engagement: This is a Crowd Control skill. Rarely used, except in those cases where you need to CC, but are currently locked out of all other options.Rise of the Great Dwarf: this one is a weird defensive buff that you can give to teammates. Also, it breaks stun. Rarely used, since it requires way too much energy.

Demon Stance:Pain Absorption: This skill is... weird. It is complicated, but the short of it is that it breaks stun, and it cleans conditions from your teammates.Banish Enchantment: This one doesn't do a lot of damage, but what it does do is remove boons from the enemy you use it on. Rarely used, except in the end-game.Unyielding Anguish: This skill gets special mention. You see, the thing with Embrace the Darkness is that it pulses out damage only in your immediate area. If the enemy is far away or can't be hit for some reason, then Embrace the Darkness just drains energy. This is where Unyielding Anguish comes in. It's a pretty good DPS skill. While normally weaker overall than Embrace the darkness, if you build up enough energy, you can drop two or 3 UAs on an enemy at once. This can load up a lot of conditions in a very short amount of time.

Times when enemies run away, or are hidden, or are invulnerable for a long period of time... those are surprisingly common. Being a good condi rev is learning when to blow your energy on Embrace the Darkness, or when to save up energy for Unyielding Anguish.

Centaur Stance:This stance is... weird. It isn't like the other ones. Instead, what it does is make a tablet, and this tablet sort of acts like a cleric. All of the utility skills do things to this tablet. For the most part, unless you actually make a healing dedicated build, you won't be using Centaur Stance. And, I wouldn't recommend trying to be a low level healer. However, there is one time where you'll use the tablet.

Protective Solace puts a bubble around the tablet, which blocks enemy projectiles from coming in. The important thing to note is that this bubble can stay up for a really long time. So, if there are a lot of enemies with a lot of projectiles, you can switch to Centaur, put the tablet where you want it to go with skill 6, then use Protective Solace.

---

tl;dr

Use sword/sword, with Dwarf stance and Assassin Stance.
Heal with skill 6. Both legends have their own heal.While in Dwarf, turn on Vengeful Hammers. While in Assassin, turn on impossible odds. All other utilities are largely ignored.Swap legend when low on energy.Use Sword skills 2, 4, and 5 whenever you can. Use sword skill 3 for an extra dodge. Otherwise, just auto attack.

Once you're comfortable with doing that, feel free to experiment. The best way to learn what skills do is to play around with them.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@otto.5684 said:Glint is used to gain boons. You barely cast or will need to cast anything there, beside activating the passive boon generation (mainly might and fury).

Burst of Strength & Elemental Blast are both DPS gains in solo open world PvE and should be cast at some point while in Glint. Chaotic Release also does respectable damage and CCs if you need that for whatever reason against groups of enemies.

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:To do the most power DPS is pretty easy. You'll want to use Dwarf Stance and Assassin Stance. While in Assassin Stance, switch on impossible odds. While in Dwarf Stance, switch on Vengeful hammers. This will boost your DPS significantly. What you want to do is, while in combat, constantly swap between these two legends while keeping those two skills active. Every time you swap legends you get 50 energy back, so you'll have to swap a lot to maintain energy.

Use sword/sword, with Dwarf stance and Assassin Stance.

Heal with skill 6. Both legends have their own heal.While in Dwarf, turn on Vengeful Hammers. While in Assassin, turn on impossible odds. All other utilities are largely ignored.Swap legend when low on energy.Use Sword skills 2, 4, and 5 whenever you can. Use sword skill 3 for an extra dodge. Otherwise, just auto attack.

Once you're comfortable with doing that, feel free to experiment. The best way to learn what skills do is to play around with them.

Jalis/Shiro is slightly worse than Shiro/Glint in Open World solo pve in terms of dps. I wouldn't recommend the Jalis/Shiro upkeep rotations for Open World PvE or I'd specifically label the Jalis/Shiro rotations as "For Organized Play (Fractals & Raids)." The reasoning for that is Shiro/Jalis just doesn't have as good utility, damage, or feel and is boring compared to Glint/Shiro (though feeling and boringness is obviously subjective).

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

Jalis/Shiro is slightly worse than Shiro/Glint in Open World solo pve in terms of dps. I wouldn't recommend the Jalis/Shiro upkeep rotations for Open World PvE or I'd specifically label the Jalis/Shiro rotations as "For Organized Play (Fractals & Raids)." The reasoning for that is Shiro/Jalis just doesn't have as good utility, damage, or feel and is boring compared to Glint/Shiro (though feeling and boringness is obviously subjective).

That was all assuming that this was a leveling up build. Herald is locked behind some hefty hero point costs, so any new player starting the game won't have access to it.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

Jalis/Shiro is

slightly worse

than Shiro/Glint in Open World solo pve in terms of dps. I wouldn't recommend the Jalis/Shiro upkeep rotations for Open World PvE or I'd specifically label the Jalis/Shiro rotations as "For Organized Play (Fractals & Raids)." The reasoning for that is Shiro/Jalis just doesn't have as good utility, damage, or feel and is boring compared to Glint/Shiro (though feeling and boringness is obviously subjective).

That was all assuming that this was a leveling up build. Herald is locked behind some hefty hero point costs, so any new player starting the game won't have access to it.

Ah, that's true. I used Mallyx for leveling up, but Jalis was a lot worse back then and I kind of hate the legend xD

[Justine.6351]

PowerGlint/ShiroHammer/Staff

All skills have a use in every mode. I even activate Gaze of Darkness (aoe blind) to protect my Drop the Hammer from enemy cc.

[Runo.3780]

Thank you for helpful posts :). You are great.Kudos :D!

[LucianDK.8615]

Phase traversal not useful? Its an extremely good gap closer with only 5s cd. Compared to the much longer cd on sword 5. Plus it has a powerful initial strike that starts your attack. Impossible odds needs you to already be attacking to use it. PT is extremely good for zipping between ordinary mobs and smacking them.

[Cynder.2509]

These previous tips were explaining a lot already but there's one advise left to give.When fighting bosses with a crowd control bar (the blue one under the health bar) I'd advise not to waste your energy on cc (crowd control) skills before you actually need them. They're very useful in these situations and most events (for example Serpent's Ire) require you to use cc a lot and mindfully.About crowd control: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Control_effectA list of revenant skills which list also all of your cc skills: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_revenant_skills

[Aigleborgne.2981]

@LucianDK.8615 said:Phase traversal not useful? Its an extremely good gap closer with only 5s cd. Compared to the much longer cd on sword 5. Plus it has a powerful initial strike that starts your attack. Impossible odds needs you to already be attacking to use it. PT is extremely good for zipping between ordinary mobs and smacking them.

I can't agree more ! Alone, it already does respectable damage, and with boost for following attacks along with 3s quickness, I find it a lotr better than IO. Mainly because IO can't cleave and this is really bad when fighting multiple foes.Disregarding IO superspeed (which is clunky by the way), IO is rather weak except in 1v1. PT brings you mobility (fast engage, really important for a fragile class like revenant), quickness and a big damage boost (25% for next 2 attacks).

I also disagree about utilities beeing situationnal. While true for most professions, they are the backbone of revenant skills. I often use more my utilities than weapon skills !Jade wings is mostly used to break bars, but I also use it in a chain (doing only this skill) to disable a group of foes that could down me. And it is very effective for this job.When fighting a champion, I save a lot of energy for Riposting Shadow emergencies.

And finally, to answer OP, I rarely use my 2nd weapon set. It is usually a staff used for condi cleanse et damage/CC with skill 5.And some legends have useless utilities in PvE So it narrows the skill choice a lot.

[Runo.3780]

One more question - do you think revenant is good class for beginner?

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@Runo.3780 said:One more question - do you think revenant is good class for beginner?

It’s one of the harder classes in the game, especially from a pvp stand point (that doesn’t mean it’s bad tho). If you start with it and learn it well you’ll do fine just know that it can be frustrating at times until you get the hang of it.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

In PVE the revenant is really easy, though. The self sustain from all of the life leeching and vengeful hammers means its really hard to die.

[narcx.3570]

@Runo.3780 said:Hey, I'm just starting this class and tbh it's a little overwhelming - 20 skills, especially the 2nd weapon skills... I dont actually have idea when to use them so I rarely use them, the two Legends I'm capable of use though sometimes I forget to use some skills.Any tips on playing this class? Do you actually use all 20 skills or only part of them? Do you have some main skills that you use and other are pretty much situatiional?

With Renegade dps in raids, I use 10 different skills (not counting auto attack chains or heals)...

In PvP or WvW I play power herald and I'll generally use all of them, although obviously not at once or in a row since some of them are pretty niche and you don't have the energy to do so anyways... But, yeah, every once in a while even using Jade Winds is actually the right move. :bleep_bloop:

[Justine.6351]

@narcx.3570 said:

@Runo.3780 said:Hey, I'm just starting this class and tbh it's a little overwhelming - 20 skills, especially the 2nd weapon skills... I dont actually have idea when to use them so I rarely use them, the two Legends I'm capable of use though sometimes I forget to use some skills.Any tips on playing this class? Do you actually use all 20 skills or only part of them? Do you have some main skills that you use and other are pretty much situatiional?

With Renegade dps in raids, I use 10 different skills (not counting auto attack chains or heals)...

In PvP or WvW I play power herald and I'll generally use all of them, although obviously not at once or in a row since some of them are pretty niche and you don't have the energy to do so anyways... But, yeah, every once in a while even using Jade Winds is actually the right move. :bleep_bloop:

lol jade winds,I am just waiting for the wvw tears to come zerging the forums for a nerf on that skill. Cannot believe Jade Echo hasn't been targeted yet.

[lunaeclipse.6843]

Revenant..

If ur leveling up and planning to do end game PvE...itll be a bit slower but personally recommend getting used to playing Condi.

Look i know many many ppl recommend power for pve but personally i can not.

Power rev in pve is only good for open world content: map meta events, exploration, etc.

If you to get into anything serious like raiding or even fractals, Condi is by far the way to go. Condi builds for this class bring much more valuable skills to the group in serious pve content. On top of that the highest personal dps builds have much more interesting rotations. The sb+mace/axe invocation rotation uses 3 sequences for a full rotation, utilizing 11 different skills + auto attacks.

I personally don't understand this forums obsession with power builds.

I will say condi builds for the revenant do fall flat in pvp content. Between enemies cleansing the conditions you output, and an extreme lack of defense they simply don't work.

But as far as the original question is concerned in general rev skills are more "as you need them" as opposed to "use x then y then z etc then repeat". There are some exceptions but that's the general form.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Power Rev dusts Condi rev in fractals. The regular enemies die too quickly to let the condis tick up, and most of the bosses have phasing mechanics that cleanse away any condis they were suffering from. In an otherwise all-power party, playing any sort of condi build feels like a joke due to how fast everything dies. The only place where condi builds pull ahead is against bosses with a single, long, continuous lifespan. In raids, this is very common. In fractals, this is significantly less common.

The same is true for dungeons. With a good group, the enemies and bosses simply don't live long enough for conditions to do their thing. This is the reason why everybody keeps recommending you go with a full berserker power build. Condi beating out Power is the exception, not the norm.

[narcx.3570]

@Justine.6351 said:

@narcx.3570 said:

@Runo.3780 said:Hey, I'm just starting this class and tbh it's a little overwhelming - 20 skills, especially the 2nd weapon skills... I dont actually have idea when to use them so I rarely use them, the two Legends I'm capable of use though sometimes I forget to use some skills.Any tips on playing this class? Do you actually use all 20 skills or only part of them? Do you have some main skills that you use and other are pretty much situatiional?

With Renegade dps in raids, I use 10 different skills (not counting auto attack chains or heals)...

In PvP or WvW I play power herald and I'll generally use all of them, although obviously not at once or in a row since some of them are pretty niche and you don't have the energy to do so anyways... But, yeah, every once in a while even using Jade Winds is actually the right move. :bleep_bloop:

lol jade winds,I am just waiting for the wvw tears to come zerging the forums for a nerf on that skill. Cannot believe Jade Echo hasn't been targeted yet.

I know you're kinda joking, but the timing is hilarious cuz JADE ECHO REMOVED FROM GAME FOR ONE WEEK.

[starlinvf.1358]

@"Runo.3780" said:One more question - do you think revenant is good class for beginner?

Revenant is in the top 3 hardest classes for beginners. It looks straight forward on the surface, but its actual use involves the understanding and navigating of its traits, combined with a much stronger sense of situational awareness (and timing). New players can't see that layer, so they tend to take skills at face value..... and at face value Rev skills are incredibly strong. But where it starts fall apart is the mechanics don't flow nearly as easily as other classes. The inability to mix certain high use utility skills also adds to the clunky nature that the other classes don't suffer from. This won't make sense from the perspective of a new player.... but as you start hitting post-80 content, you'll start noticing the need for chaining skills, and how (even from an external view) other classes are capable of unloading devastating combos on large groups of enemies.

Part of this has to do with Revs being specifically built for Raids, and need other players to bounce off of more then other classes. You're a walking "force multiplier" capable of bursts, buffs, suppression and sustain..... but because of the energy system, you can't be all of these things at the same time. Your choice of build thus far is pretty indicative of the problems with the class as a whole (and anyone in your position would make the same assumptions), and what seems like "best in slot" options actually end up causing you to fight yourself in a pinch. I know already you use dwarf for the healing skill and whirling hammer damage almost exclusively, and assassins for Jade wind and Impossible Odd's super speed. You went condi because it seems to do more damage on its basic attacks, and you're probably spamming skills as energy becomes available because that seems like what you're supposed to do. But by the time you're level 65, that strategy is going to start failing hard.... because its not yet apparent what your defense abilities are.

Depending on how fast you are at learning game mechanics, Rev as a starter class can either be incredibly frustrating, or you end up adapting and not realizing the much more attainable potential of the other classes. I started on Ranger during 2012 launch, and had to quit after 6 months because the class was just middling in everything. After a couple of nerfs to some of its skills, I had given up on it entirely. I then rolled a Guardian..... the difference was night and day. I could gain and maintain combat momentum with shocking ease, and had a lot of options to recover from a badly timed attack, or a botched dodge. I was noticeably more squishy then a Ranger, but it was more then made up for by the fact that I could change strategies on the fly, or take defensive options without hurting my basic damage output.... something I had endless problems with trying to make work with Ranger traits and skills at the time. Then I eventually got up into Ele and Engineer.... and holy crap, I was completely sold on this game by how those 2 classes played. At first you might think its because of the number of skills... but it more that could very easily adapt to anything going on. It took a while to figure out how to get the damage working, but I could sustain for almost forever. And back before Ele D/D builds took a huge hit, they were my favorite build to bounce between 4 different combat roles at a moment's notice.

By all accounts, Revenant SHOULD have all of these capabilities..... but its heavily hampered by an intentional design flaw in how it manages resources, so it can't do the kind of things it would otherwise be capable of doing. When Rev first launched, it was ridiculously strong in several areas, because its support functions didn't live in exclusivity of its combat choices. This is also why the lack of weapon swap seemed to make no sense, because the legends were inherently designed to pair with a weapon and trait line as a unity, yet you had access to 2 Legends as a base line feature. But now that all the Rev's passive buffs were nerfed into the ground, the whole class struggles with trying to make the most of its limited energy. You can set up well, or capitalize well on a setup... but Rev is the one class that is given the most difficulty to do both.

With all that said, Revs are still a viable class...... but what all the design choices associated with it have now made it one of the weirdest learning curves in the game. Its low level performance is high due to the face value strength of the skills. But then you hit a point where it struggles to make sense, because how you use it doesn't consistently scale upward. In fact, you hit several performance walls that need some unintuitive build concepts to work around. But at high level play its power scaling starts ramping up again, once you learn to tackle the energy system. And thats kind of where this whole balance problem got started- Revs force multiply fast for the first 5 players (because its raid design), and by extention makes it really strong in PvP. But in large scale fights and much of open world, most of the strategies involves dumping huge amounts of DPS in a small window, and then maintaining defensive sustain until the next window of opportunity. Because Rev defense are made to sustain against a peak damage of 15k+ over a couple of seconds, and PvE mobs are more dangerous for their attrition over time, they often get stuck in this situation where you're defenses can't maintain over long periods, yet lack the option to burst down mobs in a Post-HOT game.

If you talk to any of the strong Rev players, you'll find a lot of apathy toward Core Tyria as Rev skills aren't being taxed there. But once you get to HoT and PoF, the strategies start coming out of the wood work. If you like to play reactive, a Rev's burst power peaks very quickly. If you play sustain, you have to play a better positioning game, and can't react as strongly as you normally would with pretty much any other class. I've been trying to get into Condi Rev... but its just so static most of the time since Mace is melee ranged, and Short bow with Kalla is still in an extremely awkward place right now.

Is it worth playing? No more or less then any other class. But if it starts to feel frustrating, at least you'll want to know why.