Dealing with cheese builds

[Tom.5914]

I do not understand why it should be so hard and sooooo time consuming to balance these 2 or maybe 3 builds, it is obvious they are much too strong (spellbreaker is strong yes, but I see this spec not on the same level like mirage and scourge)

[Nimon.7840]

I had to laugh so loud about invincible scourge.

It's so easy to shutdown scourge. I kill scourges with reaper, with core necro, with ranger, with warrior, with like every existing spec.

If scourge is alone it's a sitting duck without real defenses.

[megilandil.7506]

@Tom.5914 said:I do not understand why it should be so hard and sooooo time consuming to balance these 2 or maybe 3 builds, it is obvious they are much too strong (spellbreaker is strong yes, but I see this spec not on the same level like mirage and scourge)

because first they have to admit they screwed it big time with some profesion design, scourge cant be balanced(their area supresion is to big, and if they lower they kill the spec), they have to redesign from ground, mesmer and all their variants cant be balanced(invis, high burts, visual clutter and high damage evasion uptime in the same package... fuking god), they have to rewrite the entire profesion. others that arent op but are plainly stupid like the DE(what have they smoked in the moment that they decided this game needs camper snippers)

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Henry.5713 said:Good build summeries, made me laugh. You forgot the true Jesus that is a Firebrand, though.

True story: Commander on my map last night was offering 40G to any player willing to switch to a Firebrand, and he was spamming /m calling any Firebrands to join his squad.

[Tom.5914]

@Nimon.7840 said:I had to laugh so loud about invincible scourge.

It's so easy to shutdown scourge. I kill scourges with reaper, with core necro, with ranger, with warrior, with like every existing spec.

If scourge is alone it's a sitting duck without real defenses.

regarding your other posts, necro is without doubt your main class, so it makes sense you cry about scourge changes and telling this spec is weak

[Straegen.9534]

Scourge, kite. Spellbreaker, boon strip or be patient. Mirage, play a Mirage because currently the Rock/Paper/Scissors design is Rock/Paper/Scissors/Mirage with Mirage beating everything at least in small scale. Oh and Invuln should be a boon or remove 90% of the damage not 100%. At the very least in its current state, it shouldn't have a passive trigger.

[ChartFish.1308]

B) owl soulbeast is one speedy facker B)We're slower than thieves though. It's funny to watch a thief try burst you down, fail, and when you turn to retaliate they're already halfway to Africa. Soulbeast at least cooldowns on their GS leap and birb leap.

[XenesisII.1540]

No such thing as cheese builds...This is why people play cheese builds, to counter other cheese builds.

[Simonoly.4352]

The trick is to not bother chasing down a player that can continue to flee and sustain through 5+ people (unless one of the chasers is a Thief and can easily stick to them).

Also Scourge are only a big issue due to how much they dominate larger fights. Roaming wise......just run in a circle around them and pummel them with something ranged.

[Aeolus.3615]

Find something even more cheesy, that's the skilled way to play xD here.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Simonoly.4352 said:Also Scourge are only a big issue due to how much they dominate larger fights. Roaming wise......just run in a circle around them and pummel them with something ranged.

Which is the same as saying just kite that greatsword mesmer. People do know scourge suffer no ranged limitations like a reaper, right?

[reddie.5861]

@jayweirdo.3201 said:@MUDse.7623My engineer is my main I was doing flamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrowerflamethrower

kay.

[jayweirdo.3201]

There's a lot of good advice here, for the most part. I've taken to playing fairly cheesy myself with limited success. Changing all my builds up has definitely drained my bank. It feels like whoever shoots first wins currently.

Currently my worlds been put in with one of the top three for this week, it's all massive guilds and roamers have to travel in packs of 4 or 5 it seems. Scourges and spellbreakers make up the bulk with firebrands filling out the rest. Solo roaming isn't really an option this week, so I guess I should look into some zerg play builds or try to make some friends.

I might just take a break from wvw till this pairing breaks off. I definitely prefer the smaller fights of last week. These crowded zergs lag me out more often than not, and the small fights where I finally outsmart the same 4 guys I've been fighting all day are more satisfying to win.

[Israel.7056]

@jayweirdo.3201 said:There's a lot of good advice here, for the most part. I've taken to playing fairly cheesy myself with limited success.

Things that make you go hmm

[HazyDaisy.4107]

@jayweirdo.3201 said:roamers have to travel in packs of 4 or 5 it seems.

They don't HAVE to, they just do, no matter the tier, roaming isn't a solo sport after all, but be sure to body jump any solos you do come across they really like that.

[Helly.2597]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Simonoly.4352 said:Also Scourge are only a big issue due to how much they dominate larger fights. Roaming wise......just run in a circle around them and pummel them with something ranged.

Which is the same as saying just kite that greatsword mesmer. People do know scourge suffer no ranged limitations like a reaper, right?

Scourge has horrible ranged pressure if you walk out of the shades. And with the CD change you shouldn't have any issue doing that enough to the point they don't have any shades left.

I've been playing power rev and don't really have issues with scourge in 1v1s because you can kite them despite you having two melee sets on rev. And rev has about the worst cleanse you could imagine so pretty much every class should be able to do this.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Helly.2597 said:Scourge has horrible ranged pressure if you walk out of the shades. And with the CD change you shouldn't have any issue doing that enough to the point they don't have any shades left.

And when shades are on cd I guess they are just standing there tapdancing while juggling an axe and a staff trying to impress people to death because they couldnt possibly, you know, use them?

Sort of like a mesmer being incapable of fighting when shatter is on cd, yes.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Helly.2597 said:Scourge has horrible ranged pressure if you walk out of the shades. And with the CD change you shouldn't have any issue doing that enough to the point they don't have any shades left.

And when shades are on cd I guess they are just standing there tapdancing while juggling an axe and a staff trying to impress people to death because they couldnt possibly, you know, use them?

Sort of like a mesmer being incapable of fighting when shatter is on cd, yes.

The next elite for necro will feature tapdancing: The Gravedancer. Gains life force by dancing across bodies of enemies.

[Helly.2597]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Helly.2597 said:Scourge has horrible ranged pressure if you walk out of the shades. And with the CD change you shouldn't have any issue doing that enough to the point they don't have any shades left.

And when shades are on cd I guess they are just standing there tapdancing while juggling an axe and a staff trying to impress people to death because they couldnt possibly, you know, use them?

Sort of like a mesmer being incapable of fighting when shatter is on cd, yes.

The mesmer comparison isn't even close. Slow immobile necro who only has 1 weapon skill that does any real dmg (axe 2 if they're power) vs mobile mesmer that has 4+ weapon abilities for good dmg.

If you're dying to a scourge axe 2 idk how to help you. If you think staff is such good ranged pressured idk how to help you. Stop with this vendetta against scourges. They were broken before and have been positively neutered in smaller fights to the point of a punching bag.

Saying necro has good ranged pressure simply from weapons is like saying glint rev has good ranged pressure from elemental blast.

[Tom.5914]

Honestly against what noobish scourges do you play ?Krait set and you have 5 high damaging conditions on you with only 1 skill !!!!!

[Helly.2597]

@Tom.5914 said:Honestly against what noobish scourges do you play ?Krait set and you have 5 high damaging conditions on you with only 1 skill !!!!!Wait you struggle with kiting out the scourge elite? No good scourge is going to run krait runes. And if you panic from the 1 stack 3 conditions that are inflicted by krait that's on you.

I think all the people who complain about scourge now never played against deathly chill reaper at it's height. That legit had instant 5+ conditions on you and could stack 40+ bleeds solo easily. Didn't matter if you cleansed or not, good ones would reapply it quickly.

But even so, every necro spec is easy to kite. Scourge isn't an exception. And now anet made it so if you bait out a few shades at the start every large shade scourge is trivial to kite and deal with. Small shade scourges are even easier to kite down.

The point is that scourge does not have some magical power to ignore game mechanics and destroy you with conditions instantly. They are kitable, they are burstable, and they are an extremely finite amount of resources that can be outlasted. Can you still die to them? Of course, but in small scale 1-10 players there isn't a scourge problem.

[Israel.7056]

Confirmed i have a much easier time fighting scourges than I did fighting deathly chill reapers. That was horrible.

[sephiroth.4217]

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:

@jayweirdo.3201 said:roamers have to travel in packs of 4 or 5 it seems.

They don't HAVE to, they just do, no matter the tier, roaming isn't a solo sport after all, but be sure to body jump any solos you do come across they really like that.

Most roamers I see are 1-3...

if it's 4-6 people then usually it's a bunch of pugs that are grouping together to grab a sentry or camp or to gank that solo player at the camp or sentry and the moment 1 or 2 of them go down, the rest run.... Just my experience though.

(im usually tailing enemy zergs picking off strays so yea most of the time I see 1 person look at me, then a second then they slowly edge forward until a 3rd joins then a forth then they charge and then I stealth and attempt to pick off the one furthest away from the rest or just run like a kitten)

[XenesisII.1540]

There's no true roamers no more, people don't care and just turn into group gankers, and because unfortunately some of the builds are such cheesy kitten you have to be.

[ganefte.6723]

So, I haven't played since I think december and still they haven't nerfed mirages? Ok, I go back to WoW than, the world pvp is shit, but not as shitty having mirages in wvw running around.