GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

[Dengar.1785]

Actually I assume there was just a company policy and ‘the mob’ had nothing to do with it.

[Deihnyx.6318]

@mewbee.6489 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@mewbee.6489 said:I never thought i would post on a GW2 forum, I never even thought I would play GW2, but here I am. My partner has been playing for years and eventually wore me down. I just started playing a couple of weeks ago and I am obsessed. The story keeps getting better and better.

I just wanted to express my disappointment about this Jessica Price deal. The language that the fan chose while correcting Jessica was condescending, and I don't understand why this is even a thing people are arguing about. He might not have been aware of it, or intended it, but I think it was her full right to call him out on it. From what we have heard, this twitter rant is the reason Jessica and Fries were fired. Ive tried to see this from Arenanets side but i just cannot support it. I can't agree with a company trying to silence their employees. This was a woman tired of men trying to explain to her how to do her job, she defended herself and her work at arenanet, and got fired for it. I do not think calling a fan an kitten is a legitimate reason to fire someone. They should have defended their staff.

For the bajillionth time...

Which part was condescending? Where is your evidence? I’m getting so sick and tired of accusations without evidence.

Furthermore, he wasn’t just any old fan, he was a partnered content creator. And even without that, bullying your customer, especially without provocation, will get you fired

amywhere

.

You haven't corrected ME a bajillion times. Maybe Jessica has been corrected a bajillion times on how to do her work, maybe that's why she reacted the way she did. And you seem to be able to take your frustration out on people openly on forums without getting canned, you can even do it a bajillion times! Btw, how is what she said bullying? Like you said, he is not just a fan, he is a grown kitten man who works in the same industry and should be able to take criticism on his language use. Just like she should, without getting fired.I know I'm not getting anywhere with this, you obviously do not understand how what he said what condescending, and how this is a commonly reoccurring theme in being a woman in, well, any industry.

Obviously most people don't understand how what he said is condescending or we wouldn't be having this thread going on for ages. We keep hearing that. again, and again, and again here. Is that really the best line of defense? When is ONE of you ever going to explain factually how is that condescending? Does that warrant the right for a professional to go berserk on a consumer first, and then on a category of the population in general?And we're consumers, so yes we can complain. But the moment I come here or anywhere, advertise working for this company and being rude to people, I will get canned. That's how it works.

Since you seem aware of women issues in well, any industry, let me tell you that you obviously do not understand how defending a clear lost cause is doing a lot of damage to that cause.Because one is from a minority doesn't mean one can never be in the wrong. Because a majority/community is complaining about something doesn't mean they're necessarily wrong, or mobs, or alt-rights or whatever.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@mewbee.6489 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@mewbee.6489 said:I never thought i would post on a GW2 forum, I never even thought I would play GW2, but here I am. My partner has been playing for years and eventually wore me down. I just started playing a couple of weeks ago and I am obsessed. The story keeps getting better and better.

I just wanted to express my disappointment about this Jessica Price deal. The language that the fan chose while correcting Jessica was condescending, and I don't understand why this is even a thing people are arguing about. He might not have been aware of it, or intended it, but I think it was her full right to call him out on it. From what we have heard, this twitter rant is the reason Jessica and Fries were fired. Ive tried to see this from Arenanets side but i just cannot support it. I can't agree with a company trying to silence their employees. This was a woman tired of men trying to explain to her how to do her job, she defended herself and her work at arenanet, and got fired for it. I do not think calling a fan an kitten is a legitimate reason to fire someone. They should have defended their staff.

For the bajillionth time...

Which part was condescending? Where is your evidence? I’m getting so sick and tired of accusations without evidence.

Furthermore, he wasn’t just any old fan, he was a partnered content creator. And even without that, bullying your customer, especially without provocation, will get you fired

amywhere

.

You haven't corrected ME a bajillion times. Maybe Jessica has been corrected a bajillion times on how to do her work, maybe that's why she reacted the way she did. And you seem to be able to take your frustration out on people openly on forums without getting canned, you can even do it a bajillion times! Btw, how is what she said bullying? Like you said, he is not just a fan, he is a grown kitten man who works in the same industry and should be able to take criticism on his language use. Just like she should, without getting fired.I know I'm not getting anywhere with this, you obviously do not understand how what he said what condescending, and how this is a commonly reoccurring theme in being a woman in, well, any industry.

So you got nothing to back up your claim, like what the poster asked you for, thought so..So, what what part of those few Deroir's post's exactly had any kind of condescending or aggressive undertone, where were they gender specific/related, where was it warranting such an outburst of that magnitude from JP... Deroir wasn't the one putting work related content out for the community to read, discuss, garner opinion and challenge, he was simply seeking respectful meaningful dialogue with a dev that he held in high regard.. big difference, huuuge! - pretty sure you would be hard pushed to find any grounds for a simple reprimand let alone firing for anything he posted out in the exchange even, if he was at work discussing her Pro tips SA.BTW I am still missing the part where deroir warranted criticism of his language use. .. cant fathom that one either.At least put some flesh on the bone instead of making wild irrational remarks fuelled out of nothing more than conjecture cos as it stands you simply have nothing... then again it's hard to take anything you say seriously when your prepared to make stupid statement slike.. he's a grown kitten man working in the same industry and should be able to... blah blah blah.

[DaShi.1368]

Edit: Removed this because it was pointed out to me that this was not a helpful analogy. I was wrong to post it. You can still see it in other people's quotes, but know that I no longer stand by it.

[Ashen.2907]

@DaShi.1368 said:Today a neighbor's kid shared her artwork with my family.

Her: Look at this drawing!Me: That's really interesting! I'm a big fan of your work. But, let me give you a little advice, maybe if you colored in the lines people would like your art more.Her: Biggest frown I've ever seenMe: You getting upset at my obvious attempt to create a dialogue with you really upsets me. If that's the way you're going to be then sorry.Her: Starts cryingMe: I'm just being polite. Fine, let's get the neighbors involved and we'll see who's right.

So you are saying that JP was acting like a child.

[Sephylon.4938]

@"DaShi.1368" said:Today a neighbor's kid shared her artwork with my family.

Her: Look at this drawing!Me: That's really interesting! I'm a big fan of your work. But, let me give you a little advice, maybe if you colored in the lines people would like your art more.Her: Biggest frown I've ever seenMe: You getting upset at my obvious attempt to create a dialogue with you really upsets me. If that's the way you're going to be then sorry.Her: Starts cryingMe: I'm just being polite. Fine, let's get the neighbors involved and we'll see who's right.

Last time I said something like that to a kid, she just went "but it's prettier when you colour outside the lines".

[Deihnyx.6318]

@DaShi.1368 said:Today a neighbor's kid shared her artwork with my family.

Her: Look at this drawing!Me: That's really interesting! I'm a big fan of your work. But, let me give you a little advice, maybe if you colored in the lines people would like your art more.Her: Biggest frown I've ever seenMe: You getting upset at my obvious attempt to create a dialogue with you really upsets me. If that's the way you're going to be then sorry.Her: Starts cryingMe: I'm just being polite. Fine, let's get the neighbors involved and we'll see who's right.

You added the last part out of thin air, he dropped the conversation when it turned political.

[DaShi.1368]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:Today a neighbor's kid shared her artwork with my family.

Her: Look at this drawing!Me: That's really interesting! I'm a big fan of your work. But, let me give you a little advice, maybe if you colored in the lines people would like your art more.Her:

Biggest frown I've ever seen

Me: You getting upset at my obvious attempt to create a dialogue with you really upsets me. If that's the way you're going to be then sorry.Her:

Starts crying

Me: I'm just being polite. Fine, let's get the neighbors involved and we'll see who's right.

You added the last part out of thin air, he dropped the conversation when it turned political.

Fair point. Fixed.

[Shoyoko.7309]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:Today a neighbor's kid shared her artwork with my family.

Her: Look at this drawing!Me: That's really interesting! I'm a big fan of your work. But, let me give you a little advice, maybe if you colored in the lines people would like your art more.Her:

Biggest frown I've ever seen

Me: You getting upset at my obvious attempt to create a dialogue with you really upsets me. If that's the way you're going to be then sorry.Her:

Starts crying

Me: I'm just being polite. Fine, let's get the neighbors involved and we'll see who's right.

So you are saying that JP was acting like a child.

..who can't take criticism...

[Dengar.1785]

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@"DaShi.1368" said:Today a neighbor's kid shared her artwork with my family.

Her: Look at this drawing!Me: That's really interesting! I'm a big fan of your work. But, let me give you a little advice, maybe if you colored in the lines people would like your art more.Her:

Biggest frown I've ever seen

Me: You getting upset at my obvious attempt to create a dialogue with you really upsets me. If that's the way you're going to be then sorry.Her:

Starts crying

Me: I'm just being polite. Fine, let's get the neighbors involved and we'll see who's right.

Last time I said something like that to a kid, she just went "but it's prettier when you colour outside the lines".

If only she said that. Then everybody involved would have had a good laugh.

[TexZero.7910]

@DaShi.1368 said:Today a neighbor's kid shared her artwork with my family.

I too like bad analogies.

Person A; Me and Outstanding and Brillant person in my craft will tell you why i can't do something!Person B: Good points, but maybe if you did X instead you could fix said problem ?Person A: Flips Table. Don't tell me how i work.Person B: Wow....The table and i didn't deserve that.Person A: WOW TRIGGERED THE TABLE GOT MORE ATTENTION THAN MY GENITALIA!Person B: What ? Im sorry i didn't even....Person A: THE NEXT RANDO KITTEN TO ASSUME THEY KNOW BETTER THAN ME BECAUSE THEY HAVE AN OUTTIE INSTEAD OF AN INNIE IS BLOCKED!

Seems legit ?

[Zaklex.6308]

@"Batel.9206" said:So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do?

"Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company.

Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and it appears that some of us determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending.

Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR.

It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now.

[Dengar.1785]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@"Batel.9206" said:So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do?

"Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company.

Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and a lot of use determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending.

Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR.

It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now.

We don’t want to control speech, we just want people to show some respect to their fellow human beings.

[AnClar.1304]

Thank you Mo and Anet for dealing with what must have been a very difficult situation. Especially in this day and age, where civility between people seems to be a disappearing trait, it is refreshing to see companies do the right thing and show that they believe in treating and communicating with others, even with others with whom we disagree, courteously and respectfully. It's always unfortunate when people lose their jobs because of poor judgement, lack of self-control, and basic lack of decency and courtesy. Nevertheless you did the right thing to show support for the community and to not tolerate personal attacks on the part of your employees. For that I am grateful.

[DaShi.1368]

@AnClar.1304 said:Thank you Mo and Anet for dealing with what must have been a very difficult situation. Especially in this day and age, where civility between people seems to be a disappearing trait, it is refreshing to see companies do the right thing and show that they believe in treating and communicating with others, even with others with whom we disagree, courteously and respectfully. It's always unfortunate when people lose their jobs because of poor judgement, lack of self-control, and basic lack of decency and courtesy. Nevertheless you did the right thing to show support for the community and to not tolerate personal attacks on the part of your employees. For that I am grateful.

So companies should fire their employees whenever they are uncivil? That seems like it would open a whole can of worms. Is that what you meant?

[Batel.9206]

@Dengar.1785 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@"Batel.9206" said:So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do?

"Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company.

Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and a lot of use determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending.

Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR.

It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now.

We don’t want to control speech, we just want people to show some respect to their fellow human beings.

This, exactly. I'm all for free speech. People have fought and died in wars for that precious freedom.I'm also all for professional courtesy, responsibility, and self control.

Saying that not everyone is cut out for PR work is basically giving an excuse to Price's words. "Well, she's not in PR, so how could she have been expected to behave civilly?" Because she's representing a company. Because her twitter account is not private. Because as a representative of that company, she has a responsibility to act professionally. Because she's a human being and should therefore realize that flying off the handle to a politely dissenting opinion, just because of some perceived insult or agenda, is probably an overreaction to the extreme. Freedom of speech also means that you take responsibility for your words. Deroir did. Price did not.

[Dengar.1785]

@DaShi.1368 said:

@AnClar.1304 said:Thank you Mo and Anet for dealing with what must have been a very difficult situation. Especially in this day and age, where civility between people seems to be a disappearing trait, it is refreshing to see companies do the right thing and show that they believe in treating and communicating with others, even with others with whom we disagree, courteously and respectfully. It's always unfortunate when people lose their jobs because of poor judgement, lack of self-control, and basic lack of decency and courtesy. Nevertheless you did the right thing to show support for the community and to not tolerate personal attacks on the part of your employees. For that I am grateful.

So companies should fire their employees whenever they are uncivil? That seems like it would open a whole can of worms. Is that what you meant?

Would you keep a shop clerk on you staff if they insult their customers, makes them uncomfortable, tell their friends about it, and cause customers to find a different place to shop at?

[DaShi.1368]

@Batel.9206 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Batel.9206 said:So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do?

"Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company.

Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and a lot of use determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending.

Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR.

It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now.

We don’t want to control speech, we just want people to show some respect to their fellow human beings.

This, exactly. I'm all for free speech. People have fought and died in wars for that precious freedom.I'm also all for professional courtesy, responsibility, and self control.

Saying that not everyone is cut out for PR work is basically giving an excuse to Price's words. "Well, she's not in PR, so how could she have been expected to behave civilly?" Because she's representing a company. Because her twitter account is not private. Because as a representative of that company, she has a responsibility to act professionally. Because she's a human being and should therefore realize that flying off the handle to a politely dissenting opinion, just because of some

perceived

insult or agenda, is

probably

an overreaction to the extreme. Freedom of speech also means that you take responsibility for your words. Deroir did. Price did not.

But Price wasn't representing the company in that context. And no, her putting that she works for Anet in her bio doesn't mean that. A lot of people, especially in her field do that for networking. She didn't mention Anet once in her tweets. She just wanted to talk about game design.

Now I'm not going to disagree with you that she was uncivil in her response. But to connect it to her career is unfair. Where do you draw the line? How many people here should be fired for the comments they made?

[wayward.4792]

This is pretty much Exhibit A for why game development needs. to. be. unionized. yesterday.

Honestly, the concern players have shouldn't be whether or not they were able to claim the scalp (of a developer who's been harassed constantly since literally the day she was hired) for being insufficiently demure. Obviously they were able to.

The concern for y'all should be "what does this do for ArenaNet's ability to attract and retain talent", because I sure can tell you that the Seattle-area game dev community is not happy about this saga. And it's not like ArenaNet was considered an overwhelmingly great place to work to start with.

The concern should be "will devs want to talk to us again, ever", because they can be fired for whatever Mike O'Brien considers to be a misstep on social media.

The actual events that led to this were, frankly, routine as hell, and that it's turned into this big a thing is basically a colossal own-goal on ANet's part. They probably don't actually have a winning play anymore. And that's a damn shame, and that's wholly on Mo.

[DaShi.1368]

@Dengar.1785 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@AnClar.1304 said:Thank you Mo and Anet for dealing with what must have been a very difficult situation. Especially in this day and age, where civility between people seems to be a disappearing trait, it is refreshing to see companies do the right thing and show that they believe in treating and communicating with others, even with others with whom we disagree, courteously and respectfully. It's always unfortunate when people lose their jobs because of poor judgement, lack of self-control, and basic lack of decency and courtesy. Nevertheless you did the right thing to show support for the community and to not tolerate personal attacks on the part of your employees. For that I am grateful.

So companies should fire their employees whenever they are uncivil? That seems like it would open a whole can of worms. Is that what you meant?

Would you keep a shop clerk on you staff if they insult their customers, makes them uncomfortable, tell their friends about it, and cause customers to find a different place to shop at?

That's a strawman.

[AnClar.1304]

@DaShi.1368 said:So companies should fire their employees whenever they are uncivil? That seems like it would open a whole can of worms. Is that what you meant?

I think each situation is unique and should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

Words have consequences. This is a company whose business depends upon good community relations. When an employee publicly goes off on someone who pretty reasonably disagreed with her and immediately plays the sexism card to insult him, there are going to be consequences. I've been involved in HR situations like this before, and I've had to take similar actions. It's unfortunate for the people who lost their jobs, but, what they did was hurtful to Anet's bottom line, and IMO the company's actions were understandable.

[Dengar.1785]

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@AnClar.1304 said:Thank you Mo and Anet for dealing with what must have been a very difficult situation. Especially in this day and age, where civility between people seems to be a disappearing trait, it is refreshing to see companies do the right thing and show that they believe in treating and communicating with others, even with others with whom we disagree, courteously and respectfully. It's always unfortunate when people lose their jobs because of poor judgement, lack of self-control, and basic lack of decency and courtesy. Nevertheless you did the right thing to show support for the community and to not tolerate personal attacks on the part of your employees. For that I am grateful.

So companies should fire their employees whenever they are uncivil? That seems like it would open a whole can of worms. Is that what you meant?

Would you keep a shop clerk on you staff if they insult their customers, makes them uncomfortable, tell their friends about it, and cause customers to find a different place to shop at?

That's a strawman.

I promise I will believe your words if you can explain how it is a strawman.

[DaShi.1368]

@Dengar.1785 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@AnClar.1304 said:Thank you Mo and Anet for dealing with what must have been a very difficult situation. Especially in this day and age, where civility between people seems to be a disappearing trait, it is refreshing to see companies do the right thing and show that they believe in treating and communicating with others, even with others with whom we disagree, courteously and respectfully. It's always unfortunate when people lose their jobs because of poor judgement, lack of self-control, and basic lack of decency and courtesy. Nevertheless you did the right thing to show support for the community and to not tolerate personal attacks on the part of your employees. For that I am grateful.

So companies should fire their employees whenever they are uncivil? That seems like it would open a whole can of worms. Is that what you meant?

Would you keep a shop clerk on you staff if they insult their customers, makes them uncomfortable, tell their friends about it, and cause customers to find a different place to shop at?

That's a strawman.

I promise I will believe your words if you can explain how it is a strawman.

JP is not a store clerk, was not acting in a role anywhere close to being store clerk. You used that example because it's easier to defend than what actually happened.

[Dengar.1785]

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@AnClar.1304 said:Thank you Mo and Anet for dealing with what must have been a very difficult situation. Especially in this day and age, where civility between people seems to be a disappearing trait, it is refreshing to see companies do the right thing and show that they believe in treating and communicating with others, even with others with whom we disagree, courteously and respectfully. It's always unfortunate when people lose their jobs because of poor judgement, lack of self-control, and basic lack of decency and courtesy. Nevertheless you did the right thing to show support for the community and to not tolerate personal attacks on the part of your employees. For that I am grateful.

So companies should fire their employees whenever they are uncivil? That seems like it would open a whole can of worms. Is that what you meant?

Would you keep a shop clerk on you staff if they insult their customers, makes them uncomfortable, tell their friends about it, and cause customers to find a different place to shop at?

That's a strawman.

I promise I will believe your words if you can explain how it is a strawman.

JP is not a store clerk, was not acting in a role anywhere close to being store clerk. You used that example because it's easier to defend than what actually happened.

It’s called an analogy. Replace “store clerk” with “dev”, and “shop” with “game”.

I can’t believe I even have to explain this.

[DaShi.1368]

@Dengar.1785 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@AnClar.1304 said:Thank you Mo and Anet for dealing with what must have been a very difficult situation. Especially in this day and age, where civility between people seems to be a disappearing trait, it is refreshing to see companies do the right thing and show that they believe in treating and communicating with others, even with others with whom we disagree, courteously and respectfully. It's always unfortunate when people lose their jobs because of poor judgement, lack of self-control, and basic lack of decency and courtesy. Nevertheless you did the right thing to show support for the community and to not tolerate personal attacks on the part of your employees. For that I am grateful.

So companies should fire their employees whenever they are uncivil? That seems like it would open a whole can of worms. Is that what you meant?

Would you keep a shop clerk on you staff if they insult their customers, makes them uncomfortable, tell their friends about it, and cause customers to find a different place to shop at?

That's a strawman.

I promise I will believe your words if you can explain how it is a strawman.

JP is not a store clerk, was not acting in a role anywhere close to being store clerk. You used that example because it's easier to defend than what actually happened.

It’s called an analogy. Replace “store clerk” with “dev”, and “shop” with “game”.

I can’t believe I even have to explain this.

Um...do you know what a strawman is? Its' an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

That's what you did. Store clerk != dev. Shop != game. If you can't agree to this, we can't have a further conversation on this topic. Sorry.