Increasing toxicity in EU WvW.

[Garrus.7403]

You still need scourge for boonstrip. Nothing has changed good weaver/revs were always above scourge in terms of pure dmgs. But thats not why you take scourge.

[XenesisII.1540]

Can't wait to see the new meta squads of 20 weavers in them, pfft who needs boon corruption then.

[Xenash.1245]

@Israel.7056 said:

@oOStaticOo.9467 said:How DARE people play what THEY want to play on a game they payed for and an internet they pay for monthly! The NERVE of some people!!! I mean why would I want to play something I ENJOY playing over playing something that everybody else wants me to play?? Why should I try to have FUN playing a game for enjoyment when I am being selfish and not looking out for the better of my WvW community I play on?? That's just RUDE!

Strawman.

You're not wrong, but careful how you respond to someone you disagree with as there's been a few things said here that could be considered a strawman. I just felt like throwing this out there since it might make the people simply viewing this thread see things in a completely different light then intended.

That's all I really wanted to say.

[BlueMelody.6398]

@"Arctisavange.7261" said:Speaking as a commander who has been doing it since 2013:

• I dont force anyone to play any specific class but when i lack something specific to make my blob fulfill the missing/lacking parts then i ask "can anyone please switch to x class".

• PVE is not WvW and its blatantly obvious that WvW has its own needed builds that brings out the best in this meta from specific classes. Your PVE build will not do anything useful aside from getting yourself killed and making enemies rally from you.

• In our meta there are classes that are a "must have" classes to make your blob function and fulfill the needed roles in blob fights . Running around with a thief or ranger during blob fights doesnt make you useful due to how the other classes outshine you by miles in group fights.

• If my squad would be open to everyone then my blob would simply not function. Having a closed squad with people being present in voice program makes your blob function. Why? Cause certain classes fulfill certain roles and the players managing those roles MUST be present either in teamspeak or discord so the commander can organize those players to do specific tasks that help everyone out.

Example 1: i organized my warrior winds skill numbers between all warriors (bubbles) and during a blob fight im gona need my warrior #1 to jump to specific location and send warrior #2 soon after to another location. Now given my entire blob can be (sometimes 100% is) reliable on those warriors then i have to be kitten certain those warriors in my squad are present hearing my voice via teamspeak or discord. If it happens that none of my warriors are there then often times i will kitten up my entire blob cause i will take certain actions that are dependent on my warriors applying their wind skills. If i dont get nothing then odds are high i made my big part of my blob get wiped to enemies.

Example 2: i want to grab a quick group heal with everyone whose HP is low. Apparently everyone aside from my firebrands are in teamspeak/discord and know when i say something like "healing on tag in 3, 2, 1" then heals should be applied for everyone who are in need of them. Now if my firebrands dont know nothing whats going on and the people who need heals badly from them dont get squat then im basically screwing over my squad for allowing those clueless firebrands by letting them be there.

Example 3: i found myself in a spot that due to good map reading and understanding an ongoing situation very well, i will have first hands to apply all my ranged bombs on entire enemy blob before they spot my blob.So im in a hidden corner with my blob and i say "bomb on entrance at front in 3, 2, 1" where enemies appear exactly at the end of countdown and at best i see only handful of skills falling on them from my side cause a lot of my blob is utterly clueless due to them not being present in discord or teamspeak.Or i get clueless people not stacking still on hidden corner unless i can manage to type super fast "stack" and pray the god the kitten clueless people will actualy do that before enemies notices them peeking around the corner.Oh darn clueless potatos didnt stack and decided to go show their pretty eyes to enemies, due to that the enemy commander got suspicious and stopped moving to the designated area i wanted to bomb with my entire blob.

The amount of examples i can bring out is crazy. These were just a fraction of it but going on.

• Just because you got 25,000 achievement points does not make you a master player in WvW.
• Just because you can roam and kill handful of enemies does not make you an experienced WvW player who knows how to take down enemy blobs.
• Just because your teammates (who often have participated in the blob fights over the years and actually use voice programs) do the most part of killing enemies in blob fights doesnt make you an experienced WvW blob fighter.

And last

• Just because the commander is keeping the squad closed for none teamspeak/discord people and asks if someone can roll to some specific classes doesnt make him a kitten. The commanders who tag up, organize their squads and put an effort to give their best to carry clueless plebs who refuse to use voice programs are the biggest contributors to make sure everyone will have fun, including those who completely neglect voice programs and make life crap tons harder for the commander who has to carry your clueless kitten day in and day out.

From a commanders POV who regulary has to carry atleast 40-50 clueless players on map day in and day out cause my server is filled with pip warriors who think too highly of themselves and dont join voice programs for any commanders

Not one of these issues is hurt by sticking all the non-voice-comm people in your squad in their own subsquad and only counting on the ones who can hear and react to you properly. Don't assign bubbles to people not in voice comms. Don't count on heals from people not in voice comms. Keep your organized subsquads limited to people in comms and consider everyone else along for the ride.

You are not getting more damage by disallowing extra people in your squad. Clueless pugs are still going to give your position away whether they are in your squad or not. They are still going to rally enemies if they die. None of your examples shows why your position is actually improved by kicking extras out of your squad.

Your issues are with people not in comms, not with extra people in your squad or those who are running non-meta builds. Just consider them as bonus dps who aren't hurting you any more by being in your squad than they are by following you without being in your squad.

[Etheri.5406]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@"Arctisavange.7261" said:Speaking as a commander who has been doing it since 2013:

• I dont force anyone to play any specific class but when i lack something specific to make my blob fulfill the missing/lacking parts then i ask "can anyone please switch to x class".

• PVE is not WvW and its blatantly obvious that WvW has its own needed builds that brings out the best in this meta from specific classes. Your PVE build will not do anything useful aside from getting yourself killed and making enemies rally from you.

• In our meta there are classes that are a "must have" classes to make your blob function and fulfill the needed roles in blob fights . Running around with a thief or ranger during blob fights doesnt make you useful due to how the other classes outshine you by miles in group fights.

• If my squad would be open to everyone then my blob would simply not function. Having a closed squad with people being present in voice program makes your blob function. Why? Cause certain classes fulfill certain roles and the players managing those roles MUST be present either in teamspeak or discord so the commander can organize those players to do specific tasks that help everyone out.

Example 1: i organized my warrior winds skill numbers between all warriors (bubbles) and during a blob fight im gona need my warrior #1 to jump to specific location and send warrior #2 soon after to another location. Now given my entire blob can be (sometimes 100% is) reliable on those warriors then i have to be kitten certain those warriors in my squad are present hearing my voice via teamspeak or discord. If it happens that none of my warriors are there then often times i will kitten up my entire blob cause i will take certain actions that are dependent on my warriors applying their wind skills. If i dont get nothing then odds are high i made my big part of my blob get wiped to enemies.

Example 2: i want to grab a quick group heal with everyone whose HP is low. Apparently everyone aside from my firebrands are in teamspeak/discord and know when i say something like "healing on tag in 3, 2, 1" then heals should be applied for everyone who are in need of them. Now if my firebrands dont know nothing whats going on and the people who need heals badly from them dont get squat then im basically screwing over my squad for allowing those clueless firebrands by letting them be there.

Example 3: i found myself in a spot that due to good map reading and understanding an ongoing situation very well, i will have first hands to apply all my ranged bombs on entire enemy blob before they spot my blob.So im in a hidden corner with my blob and i say "bomb on entrance at front in 3, 2, 1" where enemies appear exactly at the end of countdown and at best i see only handful of skills falling on them from my side cause a lot of my blob is utterly clueless due to them not being present in discord or teamspeak.Or i get clueless people not stacking still on hidden corner unless i can manage to type super fast "stack" and pray the god the kitten clueless people will actualy do that before enemies notices them peeking around the corner.Oh darn clueless potatos didnt stack and decided to go show their pretty eyes to enemies, due to that the enemy commander got suspicious and stopped moving to the designated area i wanted to bomb with my entire blob.

The amount of examples i can bring out is crazy. These were just a fraction of it but going on.

• Just because you got 25,000 achievement points does not make you a master player in WvW.
• Just because you can roam and kill handful of enemies does not make you an experienced WvW player who knows how to take down enemy blobs.
• Just because your teammates (who often have participated in the blob fights over the years and actually use voice programs) do the most part of killing enemies in blob fights doesnt make you an experienced WvW blob fighter.

And last

• Just because the commander is keeping the squad closed for none teamspeak/discord people and asks if someone can roll to some specific classes doesnt make him a kitten. The commanders who tag up, organize their squads and put an effort to give their best to carry clueless plebs who refuse to use voice programs are the biggest contributors to make sure everyone will have fun, including those who completely neglect voice programs and make life crap tons harder for the commander who has to carry your clueless kitten day in and day out.

From a commanders POV who regulary has to carry atleast 40-50 clueless players on map day in and day out cause my server is filled with pip warriors who think too highly of themselves and dont join voice programs for any commanders

Not one of these issues is hurt by sticking all the non-voice-comm people in your squad in their own subsquad and only counting on the ones who can hear and react to you properly. Don't assign bubbles to people not in voice comms. Don't count on heals from people not in voice comms. Keep your organized subsquads limited to people in comms and consider everyone else along for the ride.

You are not getting more damage by disallowing extra people in your squad. Clueless pugs are still going to give your position away whether they are in your squad or not. They are still going to rally enemies if they die. None of your examples shows why your position is actually improved by kicking extras out of your squad.

Your issues are with people not in comms, not with extra people in your squad or those who are running non-meta builds. Just consider them as bonus dps who aren't hurting you any more by being in your squad than they are by following you without being in your squad.

Having them in squad heavily redistributes your boon and overheal towards them; which is honestly often not worthwhile.

Boons favor members of the subsquad over other squad members. That's why I talked about relegating those people into their own subsquad so that they don't get the rest of your squad's boons.

And I don't want them following without squad either. If we're such elitists that plain don't know what we're doing - go command or join a better commander that you like more. Don't pretend you know better (you might, you might not, it does not matter) and do your own thing. Either work with your group or leave your group because you're not working as a team. You're doing your thing pretending that's what's best for the team with complete disregard for their desires. And this should be met with toxicity.

But don't forget the biggest harm. The moment you cater to these players, you just get more and more and more. Especially if you have a core group that wants to play proper and carries them. It turns your server progressively more unplayable with these players looking to follow but frankly; they'll never change regardless of situations. It's better to have them understand they're not welcome in your groups, than to slowly turn your groups into 100% off-meta clowns and never to lead again.

It would be hard to find a more obvious statement of elitism and disdain. "off-meta" doesn't mean bad, and any calls for 'greater toxicity' is precisely what the community does NOT need.

I'm aware of how it works. Yet as soon as your party members aren't all in range, you distribute your overbuffing to 50 players of which 20 or 30 won't contribute. A group of 6 proper subparties and 30 players will sustain far better than a group with 6 proper subparties + 1 party with 20 extras. For comms it's also far more difficult to keep track. Is this person that is down down because we're pushing too far; do we need to mi and res or is it one of the players that should be left behind?

Off-meta doesn't mean bad. It does mean less optimal. I do not mind players playing off-meta in itself. I mind players who join groups yet refuse to ever respect their groups wishes. If the comm you want to follow is an elitist metaslave which you heavily dislike - why follow them? Even if there is no other commander around, maybe that should give you a hint.

And if the comm isn't playing meta, but just wants to play any kind of style, let them. If you're not willing to listen or consider what your group wants, you don't have the right to follow them and demand special treatment. I'll gladly give special treatment to the players who will swap to what I need when I need them to. Hell, if they want to play something or try something off-meta and I think it can work i'll probably see if we can play around it and ask others to reroll so we can test it properly.

But those players who must always play these own classes, builds and styles yet it has to be in groups ran by other players; players they won't listen to, agree with or like but that still have to buff, res and accommodate for them? Sorry, not welcome in my groups.

There are more and more servers which are plain without commanders who will actually lead. They have occasional tags; but no real commanders. Not a single one. That's the result of this type of play, and in my opinion even worse for new and casual players, as there are no zergs or good comms to follow at all. At that point, they have to make do on their own or transfer to other places.

How do you propose we solve these issues? How do you suggest we make commanding, training pugs and supporting your WvW community fun for the players that do it? Because without them; you can't even chase elitist commanders without squad. There won't be any.

Please do tell me, how do you suggest to keep commanders interested in doing what they do if the majority of the community has absolutely 0 respect or consideration for them?

[Pepper.3901]

@"Etheri.5406" said:Hello friends,

Once upon a time; I played on servers where roamers, casuals, hardcore players, PPT guilds and fight guilds and many more cooperated as part of a community, playing together on a daily basis. And yes there was occasional drama, and there were differences, yet still people played together with a common goal. They worked together, despite differences and different approaches, to reach this common goal.

Unfortunately, things have changed. On most servers the communities drastically declined or died completely. Yet there is no lack of players, there is simply a lack of players playing with / for / within the community. Players are no longer willing to cooperate; and no longer feel like they have a common goal. Instead they're mostly following selfinterest. Perhaps gift of battle; perhaps getting kills or fights or PPT or fun. This has lead to some unintended consequences. The communities that would previously organise events, guide players, support the server they are part of no longer exist or continue to lose players.

The issue is this cannot be solved on existing main servers. Each main server has a clear server culture and so many pugs / players in their current habits that it's virtually impossible to change the locale. If you want to create a new community; you have to do it on link servers and bandwagon them to main status. See vabbi, UW, WSR and possibly AG next. If players want to play as part of a tight, nice group to join on a daily basis and improve as such; then their options are joining a guild or forming a fresh server.

A second issue, is that unless you have strict rules your community gets overrun by non-community players. You may start a nice, strong community and put a lot of effort in; but anyone with 500-1.8k gems can simply transfer there. And once they're there, they can do whatever they like regardless of your goals, intentions or opinions. And the better your community does? The more players will come over. I'm not saying there shouldn't be other players on the server - there should be!

I am saying most of these communities have a goal; of playing together. And a lot of players simply transfer to a "more active" server so they can just log in and play. Perfect! Except they're still not willing to interact with the community they insist on joining. They have no interest in doing what their group desires or needs; yet insist on following that group anyways. Your community is no longer responsible to lead for itself; it's responsible to lead for everyone yet most players refuse to interact with the leads. Frustration and less leads follow...

It pains me to inform you that as long as the general culture in WvW is "join follow any group you like and do whatever you wish without respect for your allies wishes", the best way to maintain your WvW community is blatant toxicity. While it doesn't prevent any of the above; it does help hold players accountable. Furthermore, most of these "fairweather" players don't enjoy the toxicity and tend to leave. And truthfully, them leaving is less damaging for your group than them stalking you continuously.

Do you want to play WvW as a team again? Do you want to work together to make your server the very best? Do you want to make your enemies tremble before you? Become toxic now!

This is part satire; part serious. You can either be respectful of the players / groups you join and respect their wishes; or you can run with another group. If there are NO OTHER GROUPS then you still shouldn't insist on stalking them but realise there's probably a reason for their "too high" requirements. You can always roam or make your own group. Respect goes both ways; and this toxicity is only the result of many individuals not respecting the groups they joined.

PS. Being toxic increases the amount of lootbags you get by 300%!

Seems likely that your influx of NA people and others who are brining toxic PEOPLE should be noticed by Anet, but hasn't been and never is countered byany Anet presence on any BL any longer.

Anet needs to play its own game in WvW 24/7 for the game to be 'clean', they used to be here - now most are not.

Now Anet is almost never in WvW and the griefing with their absence, is bad and escalating to incredibly dangerous with real life death threats.

Come back to WvW Anet, we need you in here.

[Etheri.5406]

@atheria.2837 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:Hello friends,

Once upon a time; I played on servers where roamers, casuals, hardcore players, PPT guilds and fight guilds and many more cooperated as part of a community, playing together on a daily basis. And yes there was occasional drama, and there were differences, yet still people played together with a common goal. They worked together, despite differences and different approaches, to reach this common goal.

Unfortunately, things have changed. On most servers the communities drastically declined or died completely. Yet there is no lack of players, there is simply a lack of players playing with / for / within the community. Players are no longer willing to cooperate; and no longer feel like they have a common goal. Instead they're mostly following selfinterest. Perhaps gift of battle; perhaps getting kills or fights or PPT or fun. This has lead to some unintended consequences. The communities that would previously organise events, guide players, support the server they are part of no longer exist or continue to lose players.

The issue is this cannot be solved on existing main servers. Each main server has a clear server culture and so many pugs / players in their current habits that it's virtually impossible to change the locale. If you want to create a new community; you have to do it on link servers and bandwagon them to main status. See vabbi, UW, WSR and possibly AG next. If players want to play as part of a tight, nice group to join on a daily basis and improve as such; then their options are joining a guild or forming a fresh server.

A second issue, is that unless you have strict rules your community gets overrun by non-community players. You may start a nice, strong community and put a lot of effort in; but anyone with 500-1.8k gems can simply transfer there. And once they're there, they can do whatever they like regardless of your goals, intentions or opinions. And the better your community does? The more players will come over. I'm not saying there shouldn't be other players on the server - there should be!

I am saying most of these communities have a goal; of playing together. And a lot of players simply transfer to a "more active" server so they can just log in and play. Perfect! Except they're still not willing to interact with the community they insist on joining. They have no interest in doing what their group desires or needs; yet insist on following that group anyways. Your community is no longer responsible to lead for itself; it's responsible to lead for everyone yet most players refuse to interact with the leads. Frustration and less leads follow...

It pains me to inform you that as long as the general culture in WvW is "join follow any group you like and do whatever you wish without respect for your allies wishes", the best way to maintain your WvW community is blatant toxicity. While it doesn't prevent any of the above; it does help hold players accountable. Furthermore, most of these "fairweather" players don't enjoy the toxicity and tend to leave. And truthfully, them leaving is less damaging for your group than them stalking you continuously.

Do you want to play WvW as a team again? Do you want to work together to make your server the very best? Do you want to make your enemies tremble before you? Become toxic now!

This is part satire; part serious. You can either be respectful of the players / groups you join and respect their wishes; or you can run with another group. If there are NO OTHER GROUPS then you still shouldn't insist on stalking them but realise there's probably a reason for their "too high" requirements. You can always roam or make your own group. Respect goes both ways; and this toxicity is only the result of many individuals not respecting the groups they joined.

PS. Being toxic increases the amount of lootbags you get by 300%!

Seems likely that your influx of NA people and others who are brining toxic PEOPLE should be noticed by Anet, but hasn't been and never is countered byany Anet presence on any BL any longer.

Anet needs to play its own game in WvW 24/7 for the game to be 'clean', they used to be here - now most are not.

Now Anet is almost never in WvW and the griefing with their absence, is bad and escalating to incredibly dangerous with real life death threats.

Come back to WvW Anet, we need you in here.

Eh. I've played on EU for years and barely played on NA. I did not bring any NA players to EU. I have a seperate NA alt which i occasionally played in the past, but rarely get to play now as my work schedule doesn't allow to play on their prime.

I do not threaten players in real life. I simply kick them from my squads and tell them they're not welcome in my zerg if they aren't willing to play with the rest of the team. I try to be reasonable; but high amounts of elitism are required if you want any kind of organisation at this point in the game.

Anet has NEVER EVER played much on EU WvW. Most of the things you stated were plain not true. I shall happily continue to promote elitism not because of some NA transition or anything else; but because the EU playerbase has unrealistic expectations and demands which cannot, will not and should not be met.

The only aspect I agree with is yes; anet should play EU WvW. The game is played considerably different than in NA; and it would be very beneficial for anet to get an actual grasp of the problems EU has which aren't necessarily identical to those in NA.

[Pepper.3901]

Eh. I've played on EU for years and barely played on NA. I did not bring any NA players to EU. I have a seperate NA alt which i occasionally played in the past, but rarely get to play now as my work schedule doesn't allow to play on their prime.

I do not threaten players in real life. I simply kick them from my squads and tell them they're not welcome in my zerg if they aren't willing to play with the rest of the team. I try to be reasonable; but high amounts of elitism are required if you want any kind of organisation at this point in the game.

Anet has NEVER EVER played much on EU WvW. Most of the things you stated were plain not true. I shall happily continue to promote elitism not because of some NA transition or anything else; but because the EU playerbase has unrealistic expectations and demands which cannot, will not and should not be met.

The only aspect I agree with is yes; anet should play EU WvW. The game is played considerably different than in NA; and it would be very beneficial for anet to get an actual grasp of the problems EU has which aren't necessarily identical to those in NA.

I didn't say you specifically brought anyone to WvW EU side, I said many TOXIC players FROM NA are moving around and Anet's lack of presence isn't helping with bullying or toning down of those who bring the toxic players by the score by luring them with gold and more.

[Etheri.5406]

@"atheria.2837" said:

Eh. I've played on EU for years and barely played on NA. I did not bring any NA players to EU. I have a seperate NA alt which i occasionally played in the past, but rarely get to play now as my work schedule doesn't allow to play on their prime.

I do not threaten players in real life. I simply kick them from my squads and tell them they're not welcome in my zerg if they aren't willing to play with the rest of the team. I try to be reasonable; but high amounts of elitism are required if you want any kind of organisation at this point in the game.

Anet has NEVER EVER played much on EU WvW. Most of the things you stated were plain not true. I shall happily continue to promote elitism not because of some NA transition or anything else; but because the EU playerbase has unrealistic expectations and demands which cannot, will not and should not be met.

The only aspect I agree with is yes; anet should play EU WvW. The game is played considerably different than in NA; and it would be very beneficial for anet to get an actual grasp of the problems EU has which aren't necessarily identical to those in NA.

I didn't say you specifically brought anyone to WvW EU side, I said many TOXIC players FROM NA are moving around and Anet's lack of presence isn't helping with bullying or toning down of those who bring the toxic players by the score by luring them with gold and more.

As I discuss in this thread; the toxicity and elitism coming to WvW and the reason many "toxic" players are moving is because at some point; everyone collectively gets sick and tired of entitled pugs and leaves. Or rather - some players do. And as soon as that happens, the dominoes fall quickly because with every group leaving a server becomes more and more unmanageable.

Pugs demand commanders, entertainment, good groups, communities, fun commanders to follow, ... but frankly; most commanders don't enjoy leading for just any pugs anymore. Far from it. The elitism and toxicity isn't the result of evil mean players moving around; it's what you HAVE TO DO to keep your dedicated WvW community alive and playing how they enjoy the game without getting overrun by loothungry players.

If anet stops it and bans them, you won't have many leads or guilds at all. The same happened for raids and high end fractals in EU. At some point you just get an elitist group that no longer wants to play with ever demanding casual players; and instead does whatever it takes to play on their own. The fault lies with casual players refusing to consider the wishes of the players they follow; not with the players who attempt to escape them.

That said i'm happy NA is getting more elitist. It's time players grasp that if they wnat to win; they need to work for it. Not stalk a group that can win without them.

[Gemnaid.4219]

Wvw has no real rewards, winning doesn’t matter, server pride is getting destroyed, server status algorithms are a joke, power creep builds; the list goes on. Wvw is unfair and unbalance, and people do stupid shit.

[Etheri.5406]

It appears certain players are upset about the suggestions I make. You may find my posts offensive and report them as you wish; it won't change the fact that most of the existing WvW groups don't want to lead or cater to the majority of the playerbase anymore.

If you want to be welcome in groups; make yourself wanted by the group. Virtually all groups in WvW are happy with more "useful" players. If you're not welcome in a group; find or make a group that suits your style more.

Certain servers and players are actively avoided by almost every dedicated comm and guild / alliance in the game. This is the result of the players on the server, not the commanders who aren't willing to put up with them.Alliances won't suddenly make groups "want" you. Even being paired with an alliance randomly doesn't mean they have to lead for you.

Elitism helps players improve; by making them responsible for their own results. Kick everyone who isn't helpful or useful. Their opinions, ideas, immersion and fun is great but it shouldn't come at the expense of everyone elses.I also believe NA is slowly but surely following the same trend. Yay!

Studies have shown that elitists can reliably farm non-elitists, have competitive action with other elitists and more community interaction.Studies have shown that the amount of rangers you kick is directly proportional to your KDA.Studies have shown that WvW is now a real open world sandbox PvP gamemode. You fight not two but THREE servers; two enemy servers and plenty of players on your own.

[Decado.9304]

I don't really have an issue with locking down the zergs a bit to TS players and mostly meta classes FB/Scourge/Rev/SB/Ele and the odd holo/teef/rangers/mesmers who know what they're doing or can provide veils/portals etc when asked for. If its a full squad the subpar classes and those not on TS don't really have a place if you want to win fights against better servers/groups. Against trash then fine, run a TSless BYOB cloud and prolly win but doesn't help you get better as a player/server.

I play ranger these days (rev/guard and scourge mostly gathering dust) because i roam/scout/havok and change maps the majority of the time but when i find myself with the zerg i normally will not join squad and when i do i tend to watch the numbers and leave when its filling up. I don't need to be there especially if i'm using up a spot needed for a meta class.

Join TS, check server builds and run whats (roughly) meta and/or best suited to your role...and don't whine when a com doesn't want 18thiefs and 13pewpewers when facing a vabbi fuckyouup zerg

[Junkpile.7439]

Didn't play like six months and i am much less toxic than before. :D

[Koen.1327]

increasing toxicity and elitism had this effect on me:

• stopped using discord
• more on ranger now than rev (ranger was my main before doing wvw)
• with that comes less squad fights ofc
• ignoring requests, callouts, etc

i'd indeed rather roam solo on my inferior ranger than join a squad on my rev as it doesn't take long to run (with) into bullies, racists, sexists, you name it. and it gets so much worse if the squad dies just once.

i'm ok with not joining squads, i have plenty of fun anyway but even now i get told all the time what to do, what to play, where to go that i'm close to shutting off team/map chat as well

i'd gladly switch to rev and "contribute" or whatever, but sometimes there is queue and usually too risky to join the map as a rev only to experience massive insult fests.

[Lonecap.4105]

When someone tags up, it's completely up to them what happens with their squad. Kick rangers and thieves, np.

But at the same time, I think there's a line between having low tolerance for what falls outside of your expectations, and being unreasonable. I mean, I saw a couple of days ago, a ranger who was in squad and was then kicked. And he said he'd never been to WvW and was asking (but was ignored) why he got kicked. I took it upon myself to tell him plainly but not rudely, that he shouldn't join squad as ranger or thief in general. After that he understand said from then on he would only go roaming on his ranger and would make FB for squadplay.

There's a place for toxicity at times, but when you can, imo, you should always extend a hand or give some information to newcomers.

[Etheri.5406]

@"Koen.1327" said:i'd indeed rather roam solo on my inferior ranger than join a squad on my rev as it doesn't take long to run (with) into bullies, racists, sexists, you name it. and it gets so much worse if the squad dies just once.

I'm glad you enjoy roaming.

i'd gladly switch to rev and "contribute" or whatever, but sometimes there is queue and usually too risky to join the map as a rev only to experience massive insult fests.

I'd gladly not insult players for not "contributing", or whatever, but truthfully if I'm all nice about it they'll simply ignore anything asked from them. That's the issue, you don't get to choose one over the other. Either you go full elitist and you play with the players who find this acceptable; or you're nice and open to everyone and you play with ... everything anyone wants to play. Which generally means a whole lot of rangers and thieves and very little coordination.

I do agree that comms who rage on TS... I understand their frustration, by all means, but it's pointless. After all the majority of people who fuck up aren't the ones who are listening to you; it's exactly the ones who aren't. So creating an elitist vibe and atmosphere in teamchat / mapchat / squad and a friendly community atmosphere in voice is deal; IMO.

[Etheri.5406]

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:When someone tags up, it's completely up to them what happens with their squad. Kick rangers and thieves, np.

But at the same time, I think there's a line between having low tolerance for what falls outside of your expectations, and being unreasonable. I mean, I saw a couple of days ago, a ranger who was in squad and was then kicked. And he said he'd never been to WvW and was asking (but was ignored) why he got kicked. I took it upon myself to tell him plainly but not rudely, that he shouldn't join squad as ranger or thief in general. After that he understand said from then on he would only go roaming on his ranger and would make FB for squadplay.

There's a place for toxicity at times, but when you can, imo, you should always extend a hand or give some information to newcomers.

I absolutely agree. Newcomers are great, they're generally eager to learn and just need some pushes in the right direction.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

RPing as a toxic player has been a very enlightening experience. I recommend this to anyone that wants to improve their game play. Less useful in ERP though. Perhaps that requires a different meta?

D:

[Rysdude.3824]

Curious as I’ve only read the first page, but is this thread actually promoting the online bullying of others?

[Etheri.5406]

@Rysdude.3824 said:Curious as I’ve only read the first page, but is this thread actually promoting the online bullying of others?

No it promotes strict rules to prevent WvW players being bullied by other WvW players with different goals. It promotes elitism towards people with no interest in playing with the groups they follow / join.

Disagreements exist because players have different opinions; and that's fine as long as both parties can be respectful towards one another. Unfortunately in WvW this isn't always the case; and it shouldn't just be tolerated.

[BlueMelody.6398]

@Rysdude.3824 said:Curious as I’ve only read the first page, but is this thread actually promoting the online bullying of others?

He's promoting toxicity, so yes. He might as well be promoting trolling.

[LetoII.3782]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@Rysdude.3824 said:Curious as I’ve only read the first page, but is this thread actually promoting the online bullying of others?

He's promoting toxicity, so yes. He might as well be promoting trolling.

Saying something anyone else finds disagreeable is the new trolling.

[Etheri.5406]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@Rysdude.3824 said:Curious as I’ve only read the first page, but is this thread actually promoting the online bullying of others?

He's promoting toxicity, so yes. He might as well be promoting trolling.

I am not trolling.

Yesterday was another day where guilds were asking pugs not to follow their raids; yet there was no public tag so they demanded to follow anyways. Well demanded... they simply did. Not one, or two, or five, but pretty much as many as the guild later on.

This might seem fine for you; the pugs have a right to play. And frankly I'd agree. But it makes the players who want to raid not enjoy their raids. And those pugs who were demanding a commander... They just pissed off the exact players that do public leads and open raids. Because the pugs are - as always- entitled to do whatever they want whenever they want; and commanders have to cater to them.

Frankly; I think some of the pugs which had exceptionally bad attitudes towards respecting guilds won't be welcomed in future open raids. After all; it's the exact same players deciding they're willing to host open raids. Commanders, even when leading public, actively doing things to avoid (certain) players and pugs isn't new but certainly getting more common.

Keep up your demands. Keep assuming it's the other players doing things wrong. I don't mind too much; it won't change a thing. This thread nor me increase toxicity in EU WvW, the behavior of the players does. I'm just saying that if it's the only way to preserve the style of play many communities and guilds enjoy; then it's OK to be elitist and cater just to your own players.

Pugs who follow commanders rely on a service provided by others; and you should take this into account. Taking it for granted isn't a very good idea ;).

[Dawdler.8521]

@Etheri.5406 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@Rysdude.3824 said:Curious as I’ve only read the first page, but is this thread actually promoting the online bullying of others?

He's promoting toxicity, so yes. He might as well be promoting trolling.

I am not trolling.

Yesterday was another day where guilds were asking pugs not to follow their raids; yet there was no public tag so they demanded to follow anyways. Well demanded... they simply did. Not one, or two, or five, but pretty much as many as the guild later on.

This might seem fine for you; the pugs have a right to play. And frankly I'd agree. But it makes the players who want to raid not enjoy their raids. And those pugs who were demanding a commander... They just pissed off the exact players that do public leads and open raids. Because the pugs are - as always- entitled to do whatever they want whenever they want; and commanders have to cater to them.

Frankly; I think some of the pugs which had exceptionally bad attitudes towards respecting guilds won't be welcomed in future open raids. After all; it's the exact same players deciding they're willing to host open raids. Commanders, even when leading public, actively doing things to avoid (certain) players and pugs isn't new but certainly getting more common.

Keep up your demands. Keep assuming it's the other players doing things wrong. I don't mind too much; it won't change a thing. This thread nor me increase toxicity in EU WvW, the behavior of the players does. I'm just saying that if it's the only way to preserve the style of play many communities and guilds enjoy; then it's OK to be elitist and cater just to your own players.

Pugs who follow commanders rely on a service provided by others; and you should take this into account. Taking it for granted isn't a very good idea ;).

Then do what guilds have done before. Jump border, run tagless. This isnt a new problem for anyone thats raided the last 6 years. Its all about respect between players but you cant really control that. If guilds really want to show they dont want followers, they have the means to do so.

[SloRules.3560]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@Rysdude.3824 said:Curious as I’ve only read the first page, but is this thread actually promoting the online bullying of others?

He's promoting toxicity, so yes. He might as well be promoting trolling.

I am not trolling.

Yesterday was another day where guilds were asking pugs not to follow their raids; yet there was no public tag so they demanded to follow anyways. Well demanded... they simply did. Not one, or two, or five, but pretty much as many as the guild later on.

This might seem fine for you; the pugs have a right to play. And frankly I'd agree. But it makes the players who want to raid not enjoy their raids. And those pugs who were demanding a commander... They just pissed off the exact players that do public leads and open raids. Because the pugs are - as always- entitled to do whatever they want whenever they want; and commanders have to cater to them.

Frankly; I think some of the pugs which had exceptionally bad attitudes towards respecting guilds won't be welcomed in future open raids. After all; it's the exact same players deciding they're willing to host open raids. Commanders, even when leading public, actively doing things to avoid (certain) players and pugs isn't new but certainly getting more common.

Keep up your demands. Keep assuming it's the other players doing things wrong. I don't mind too much; it won't change a thing. This thread nor me increase toxicity in EU WvW, the behavior of the players does. I'm just saying that if it's the only way to preserve the style of play many communities and guilds enjoy; then it's OK to be elitist and cater just to your own players.

Pugs who follow commanders rely on a service provided by others; and you should take this into account. Taking it for granted isn't a very good idea ;).

Then do what guilds have done before. Jump border, run tagless. This isnt a new problem for anyone thats raided the last 6 years. Its all about respect between players but you cant really control that. If guilds really want to show they dont want followers, they have the means to do so.

And telling is not enough?