Increasing toxicity in EU WvW.

[Rysdude.3824]

Back to the OP, though my experience is limited (only about 10 months or so in WvW), I would say from what I've seen is that toxicity forms from a combination of attitudes: Bitter "Veterans", Elitists, Purposeful trolls, and IDGAF players. When someone new first steps into WvW it can be quite harsh for them if they ask questions in team/map chat. Not all the time, but all it takes is a couple of times to paint a negative picture. Humans feed off emotions and even IG you can sense these things and then it's a downward slope from there. I think the key to changing the toxicity starts with the guilds. Having a strong leadership foundation can do miracles. Not neccessarily having a carebear attitude about everything but simply being an adult about it and recognizing that not every player eats, drinks, and sleeps WvW.

[Tinnel.4369]

@Etheri.5406 said:@Tinnel.4369 PvP is not an open gamemode. It's matchmaking controlled. You play with a playerbase of around your rating, which is a very limited selection.

As a result, PvP is self-regulating. A player who plays meta and mediocre and a player who plays off-meta but good can be the same rating and both have similar impact on their team / the game. A player who plays non-meta and doesn't even try is very likely to end up in rather low ratings among trolls, afk'ers and reward-farmers. The group you get is tied to your rating.

In raids and fractals your groups are controlled and players who (refuse to) try / perform are kicked.In openworld PvE they're super welcome because it's designed to promote this style of play.

That only leaves WvW as a gamemode where what you do matters; yet your team has to put up with you no matter what. If anet won't promote incentives for us to work as a team; and players only promote their personal self-interest then I will promote mine. And mine is for communities and organised groups playing their own styles to exist. As these are mostly threathened by casuals overrunning them; I'm promoting toxicity towards them. Hopefully this will, eventually, make these players aware of their seemingly innocent actions so both sides can eventually play together for a common goal; rather than fighting both your own side and both enemy servers.

The easiest way to IMPROVE TEAMPLAY is by being MORE TOXIC to those that refuse to cooperate. Say YES to teamwork and become toxic now!

I'll just summarize as: the share of the PvP population that isn't subject to disagreeable antics is relatively small. Don't forget there's ranked and unranked and low bronze through high gold. We won't talk about the broken match making system here.

Much the same, the elite population of WvW is rather small (population factor aside), i.e. the one or two servers that dominate T1/the guilds that flock there.

I don't disagree with the spirit of your post. However, my core point remains, it's an open game mode people paid to play.

[Dami.5046]

@Israel.7056 said:

@Dami.5046 said:I never said my builds weren't meta, be it roaming or other wise but stop making WvW into a dictatorship. The meta changes for heavens sake, are you going to gear check everyone while doing a check list of

insert site

?If i'm roaming see a group what is the problem with helping build a cata or killing a few enemies ? If i see a zerg I help. I help heal, i help run supply i help kill enemies i even help claiming.So why so selfish?trolling me won't change that.

If I could check gear and builds I would but I can't so it's a non issue

As I said you're free to do whatever pleases you but I won't let you in my squad unless you're playing what id like you to play simple as that and if you're hovering around my squad on a non meta build I won't res you if you go down.

If you want to roam around and just do whatever you feel like you're always going to be free to do so but I'm not going to enable this sort of behavior.

So how do you know what to kick? For example I spoke to one of your fellow comms the other days as it happens. Wouldn't allow rangers in his group or thieves. gave me a link to a site which was a guild run site with basically a meta - or should I say their metaI can't remember said link, but i remember that rangers and thief were a no, engi had to be scapper in minstrels, mesmer also minstrels (hence my comment) necro was in cele and ele i think was in zerker/ maunders. Also builds for heavy classes with 'how to play' on each class.So no wonder we are in a state if that comm wanted builds like that and your saying you 'want these builds that you won't tell me' which for example didn't include the mesmer support build this one did.So unless every comm agrees with what the meta is, how can you justify your statements?

[alaskasnowgirl.6047]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@Dami.5046 said:I never said my builds weren't meta, be it roaming or other wise but stop making WvW into a dictatorship. The meta changes for heavens sake, are you going to gear check everyone while doing a check list of

insert site

?If i'm roaming see a group what is the problem with helping build a cata or killing a few enemies ? If i see a zerg I help. I help heal, i help run supply i help kill enemies i even help claiming.So why so selfish?trolling me won't change that.

I quite agree. I'm not sure why people care. Like more numbers on your team can't be a bad thing, ever! If I am fighting a player on a point and another joins in - good! The more, the easier.

It is a bad thing if you die on inc to merely rally the enemy.

D:

Fair enough, but in my experience often that is due to general ignorance of where to stand and acting like a tank/charging in. I don't wvw much but when I do tag along with a tag I always just kind of follow the herd and usually stay alive just fine when I do (unless the whole zerg wipes that is).

[Israel.7056]

@Dami.5046 said:So how do you know what to kick?

I know what I want and what I don't want.

For example I spoke to one of your fellow comms the other days as it happens. Wouldn't allow rangers in his group or thieves. gave me a link to a site which was a guild run site with basically a meta - or should I say their metaI can't remember said link, but i remember that rangers and thief were a no, engi had to be scapper in minstrels, mesmer also minstrels (hence my comment) necro was in cele and ele i think was in zerker/ maunders. Also builds for heavy classes with 'how to play' on each class.So no wonder we are in a state if that comm wanted builds like that and your saying you 'want these builds that you won't tell me' which for example didn't include the mesmer support build this one did.

If you're following a commander that wants something different from what myself or another commander wants then you need to talk to that commander about what he/she wants and try to figure out how to fit into his/her comp if you want to be able to play in that squad. Not every commander has the same playstyle or ideal comp but the guidelines still apply.

So unless every comm agrees with what the meta is, how can you justify your statements?

Justify them to whom?

[Dami.5046]

I sincerely hope when you kick players from your little group of four that you explain why.. I mean meta is 6 professions according to metabattle, so I'm guessing these eles and mesmers you kick will be crying into their keyboards then. mesmers being kicked who would of thought it.But in answer to your posts I can play quite happily all those you request, but thankfully I am not on a server that bothers you.good day.

[KrHome.1920]

I often get invites to the public zerg. I deny most of them because I run a selfish roaming build. This does not mean, that I don't contribute. I contribute a lot but everyone in the zerg shall see that I won't push with them at any cost. All I need is a frontline I can hide behind, when things go bad.

There is no reason to be in the zerg, if you don't match the requirements. Zergbuilds depend on each other. They are useless on their own but strong as a whole. It does not make sense to join a squad, when you just weaken it.

[Dami.5046]

On my server no comm has ever EVER stated a requirement other than use TS. The only requirement is one comms recruitment for his guild other than that I never see 'open tag only bah bah' Never.In fact I was on a holosmith the other day, one comm wanted peeps to EB.I said no point me coming i'm on a holo.Then I got abuse for not helping and not caring about my server. But mate holo's aren't meta zerg builds.. that didn't matter .
We all have a common goal to a degree in WvW but there is nothing common about what is needed or required.Apart from scouting or roaming that is. We all fall under the 'not required' bracket.

[bq pd.2148]

@Etheri.5406 said:You can play with your group as they desire or you can find a group that plays how you desire; and hopefully you can find a group that suits you. If you're roaming you truly are your own boss, but if you're in a group you do play with other players. That's my point of view.that depends on what is a group for you. if you see servers as a group then you are not your own boss in roaming, but the common goal is your boss. not many comms try to actually interact with their roamers tho, some dont even respect them and claim 'they are wasting slots on the map'. i personally mostly roam because i only ever join a zerg if the zerg has a proper setup and the comm is not a retard, else i feel i am more usefull for my server if i roam. even then my zerg often plays against me, when i am still in a tower/keep and waiting for the RI buff to end, it is pretty common that my own zerg tries to open it despite seeing me inside even if i tell them long before that i can and will flip it. they still often wont go for the next objective or enemy group. for comms being so disrespectful of my roamer capabilities, i will never swap my class and rarely will i follow them at all.

[Sovereign.1093]

if wvw was not 24 7, maybe premade groups queing together can be implemented. and key here is with time limit.

atleast 15 to 50 vs the same no. ala eotm but under q system of spvp

could be 1 team vs anothercan be wvw format 1v1v1can be something new.

hope devs would play multiple games and absorb ideas.

[cobbah.3102]

@Israel.7056 said:

@Dami.5046 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@Dami.5046 said:I don't think you ever read anything I have written. I have chosen to roam since it suits me better. Not because I am sticking two fingers up at the comms who think it's their way or no way.But as I have said, i have never had a comm ever say to me 'you can run with me if you play bah' because no one has. They seem to care more about TS.However since you know nothing about me, I dare say I am aware of what professions aren't meta and what is meta. But unless you are in a static group here lies the problem :I like playing a mesmer. Comm1 says can i do minstrel build? Yes I say happily.next day comm2 doesn't want that. They want cele necro.

So off i go thinking, oh kitten I haven't got a cele set so no pips today.You really expecting people to have numerous sets just so they can act on your beck and call?If you want this maybe some comms need to be a bit more up front about stuff, instead of saying if you don't run meta we'll just get you killed.Because if I go to a group in a meta class how do you honestly know what my build would be anyway.

Well in my case id just kick you if you were on the mes. If you happen to know a com that likes minstrel mes then run with that guy. I do expect people to have numerous sets at this point but if you don't then you get kicked until you do. You say you prefer roaming anyways so it shouldn't really effect you at all. Btw you're right that I can't check builds unfortunately so I guess you could fly under the radar on a meta class with a non meta build if you really wanted to.

It was an example, but I dare say on all this maybe you should give us all your take on the meta, you know what you look for, what not to bring.All this kicking, i'm finding it quite funny, on what server do you comm?

I like four things right now: firebrand, scourge, rev, spellbreaker. That's it. I happen to know some really good mesmers and eles who I'd always make exceptions for but otherwise just those four.

I command and pug on Mag.

Hmm Mag that explains a lot ,enough said,

[Israel.7056]

@cobbah.3102 said:Hmm Mag that explains a lot ,enough said,

K.

[Israel.7056]

@Dami.5046 said:I sincerely hope when you kick players from your little group of four that you explain why.. I mean meta is 6 professions according to metabattle, so I'm guessing these eles and mesmers you kick will be crying into their keyboards then. mesmers being kicked who would of thought it.But in answer to your posts I can play quite happily all those you request, but thankfully I am not on a server that bothers you.good day.

I always try to tell people what I'd like them to run.

[Optimator.3589]

Demanding meta builds is all well and good if the squad is full or nearly so. I'd call it a perfectly reasonable stance. But when you're scraping together whatever you can get (e.g. Izzy making a squad out of the Mag cloud) for a SMC defense or something of that nature, beggars can't be choosers.

Personally, I pick what build I'm going to run based on what I'm going to be doing. If I'm on my holo or my cancer mes running around with a havoc squad and that squad grows into a full-on blob, I'll grab a different character if queue allows.

[cobbah.3102]

I rarely join a squad ,on the odd occasion yes I do. get told to do TS so I leave as being deaf it is irrelevant for me, I inform the comm sometimes I get invited back I run full minstel guard not being overly skilled as I am a point and click (old hands) but also unaware of positioning yada yada all the other stuff but I enjoy WvW most of my toons are support heal builds which I seem to cope with ,being in a squad if numbers increase in said squad I drop out to let others in, not important to me but I give my all to help I can stand at gates healing but cannot understand the glassies dropping that you have to res why stand there ?? is that positioning? . But anyways when I get bored with said group I leave them to it. Its all about the fun. Play what you feel comfortable with and follow who you want ,I paid for the game the same as others to old to be told what I can and cannot do. Enjoy

[cobbah.3102]

@Optimator.3589 said:Demanding meta builds is all well and good if the squad is full or nearly so. I'd call it a perfectly reasonable stance. But when you're scraping together whatever you can get (e.g. Izzy making a squad out of the Mag cloud) for a SMC defense or something of that nature, beggars can't be choosers.

Personally, I pick what build I'm going to run based on what I'm going to be doing. If I'm on my holo or my cancer mes running around with a havoc squad and that squad grows into a full-on blob, I'll grab a different character if queue allows.

Be careful with the wording you cannot use the word cancer as it will get you a warning as it did me , just letting you know.

[Israel.7056]

@Optimator.3589 said:Demanding meta builds is all well and good if the squad is full or nearly so. I'd call it a perfectly reasonable stance. But when you're scraping together whatever you can get (e.g. Izzy making a squad out of the Mag cloud) for a SMC defense or something of that nature, beggars can't be choosers.

Personally, I pick what build I'm going to run based on what I'm going to be doing. If I'm on my holo or my cancer mes running around with a havoc squad and that squad grows into a full-on blob, I'll grab a different character if queue allows.

I still do that but I've just been trying to tell people what I'd prefer more often, particularly since I got back from EU and saw the way Vabbi worked. I'm not going to browbeat anyone into swapping if they don't want to obviously I just realize now that I can't let them into my squad if they're not playing something I'd like them to because that's like rewarding them. For the longest time it wasn't even an issue on Mag. We had so many pugs running meta builds that very rarely did anyone even have to say anything. I don't know what happened.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@Israel.7056 said:I don't know what happened.

They left in one form or another due whatever reasons. :P

[aspirine.6852]

To be honest I would not know. I find myself less and less in wvw. All I see is blobs and more blobs. Shit gets boring real fast while I used to not mind so much.

[googel.3278]

Be a ranger and join Vabbi ppt zerg

[Comus.7365]

from my experience..step 1. commander asks everyone to join squad and people dostep 2. commander kicks everyone that's not fotm.step 3. commander asks why no one is joining him.

i mean sure if you can fill your squad with fotm specs sure but don't moan if you can't.

no matter how elitist and entitled some people may think they are they should never expect everyone who signs up for something that's available to everyone that they will cater to their whims.

[Israel.7056]

@Comus.7365 said:from my experience..step 1. commander asks everyone to join squad and people dostep 2. commander kicks everyone that's not fotm.step 3. commander asks why no one is joining him.

i mean sure if you can fill your squad with fotm specs sure but don't moan if you can't.

no matter how elitist and entitled some people may think they are they should never expect everyone who signs up for something that's available to everyone that they will cater to their whims.

By the same token no one should feel entitled to access to a squad or a res if they refuse to cooperate with the commander. People are free to play however they want but commanders are also free to kick whomever they wish.

[LetoII.3782]

@cobbah.3102 said:I run full minstel guard not being overly skilled as I am a point and click (old hands)

Old hands are all the more improved by a good 20button mouse.I switched at 40, took a few weeks to adjust, never looked back since.

to old to be told what I can and cannot do.

Some grow wise, some grow stubborn. There's benefits to surrendering a bit of personal autonomy in a team game.

[cobbah.3102]

@LetoII.3782 said:

@cobbah.3102 said:I run full minstel guard not being overly skilled as I am a point and click (old hands)

Old hands are all the more improved by a good 20button mouse.I switched at 40, took a few weeks to adjust, never looked back since.

to old to be told what I can and cannot do.

Some grow wise, some grow stubborn. There's benefits to surrendering a bit of personal autonomy in a team game.

Oh to be around the 40 mark and 20 buttons lol not that dexterous even ,and nothing to do with being stubborn , I run what the meta is at the time just not the wherewithal in the state of the game pre hot I had a clue now nada these days.

[XenesisII.1540]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Israel.7056 said:I don't know what happened.

They left in one form or another due whatever reasons. :P

Supposedly those were all baddies that left anyways. :lol: