Scourge Testing: Are Shade$ Bugged or Unpolished?

[Kam.4092]

@Warscythes.9307 said:

@Kam.4092 said:

@Zefiris.8297 said:

@Kam.4092 said:Why are people freaking out already. Is this some Necro PTSD thing or something? I don't see 38k being that high in the end. It's a stationary target. If a target moves a lot it's way lower.

Nobody is freaking out over the numbers. The numbers are fine, and we want the numbers to stay.

The problem is: If the numbers only exist due to a bug, and that bug gets fixed, we'll not have the dps anymore. Comprendre?

People were doing 33k DPS with just one Shade up. I don't think Shade stacking is really doable nonstop. I don't really care if we get nerfed, cause we'd still do more than Condi Reaper.

You guys need to realize that once Weaver and Firebrand are nerfed, then Soulbeast and Scourge are next. We would eventually get nerfed anyway. I think 38k is too much. I'd think 33-34k is better.

I would like to echo this, 38k is not high dps, it is straight up over the top compared to HoT specs. Unless they are ok with FB, Weaver, SB, Scourge overshadow everything else then all 4 will be nerfed. Around 33k range is where you want the average to be right now.

Yes. 33k needs to be a go to number range. When things start hitting 40k, then it's like why even buy, or get HoT elites. People are acting like these current numbers are an accurate gauge on what to with in PoF. All these numbers need to be nerfed.

[DuckDuckBOOM.4097]

@Kam.4092 said:

@Warscythes.9307 said:

@Kam.4092 said:

@Zefiris.8297 said:

@Kam.4092 said:Why are people freaking out already. Is this some Necro PTSD thing or something? I don't see 38k being that high in the end. It's a stationary target. If a target moves a lot it's way lower.

Nobody is freaking out over the numbers. The numbers are fine, and we want the numbers to stay.

The problem is: If the numbers only exist due to a bug, and that bug gets fixed, we'll not have the dps anymore. Comprendre?

People were doing 33k DPS with just one Shade up. I don't think Shade stacking is really doable nonstop. I don't really care if we get nerfed, cause we'd still do more than Condi Reaper.

You guys need to realize that once Weaver and Firebrand are nerfed, then Soulbeast and Scourge are next. We would eventually get nerfed anyway. I think 38k is too much. I'd think 33-34k is better.

I would like to echo this, 38k is not high dps, it is straight up over the top compared to HoT specs. Unless they are ok with FB, Weaver, SB, Scourge overshadow everything else then all 4 will be nerfed. Around 33k range is where you want the average to be right now.

Yes. 33k needs to be a go to number range. When things start hitting 40k, then it's like why even buy, or get HoT elites. People are acting like these current numbers are an accurate gauge on what to with in PoF. All these numbers need to be nerfed.

Agreed, looking at qt dps list, average dps is around 32k +-2k for hot specs. There are outliers from hot and they need nerfs. That's also where pof elite specs should be after first round of balance changes. Acting like scourge is weak because it only does 38k will only leave you disappointed long run.

[Zefiris.8297]

@Kam.4092 said:People were doing 33k DPS with just one Shade up. I don't think Shade stacking is really doable nonstop. I don't really care if we get nerfed, cause we'd still do more than Condi Reaper.

You guys need to realize that once Weaver and Firebrand are nerfed, then Soulbeast and Scourge are next. We would eventually get nerfed anyway. I think 38k is too much. I'd think 33-34k is better.

Agreed, looking at qt dps list, average dps is around 32k +-2k for hot specs. There are outliers from hot and they need nerfs. That's also where pof elite specs should be after first round of balance changes. Acting like scourge is weak because it only does 38k will only leave you disappointed long run.

Sigh, clueless. You are not pulling 32k/36k/whateverk in a real fight. Benchmarks are and will always be meaningless to judge what spec is good and what isn't.Scourges do not pull this kind of damage in actual fights, just like the other classes don't pull the qt benchmarks. This includes qt's runs, by the way.

Reaper pulled 33k on benchmarks, but the actual raid performance was more like 13k on average (source: gw2raidar) - that's a difference of over 20k dps!THESE are the numbers you need to look at. Good, realistic DPS output for most classes is in the 25k range (and we're talking really good here. In pugs, most people pull 14k or so). Scourge is 20-22k (in pugs, you usually see them do 10-12k), with some room to improve once the rotations are improved.

Unless you guys can provide logs where scourge outperforms the other specs, it's not. Do you see guilds/pugs suddenly demanding scourges en masse for the supposedly high DPS? No? Why is that, if our DPS is "so high" due to "cool benchmark numbers"? The above is why.

Get your head out of the clouds, and understand what a benchmark actually is.

Here's some GW2raidar data:

This is for Gorseval, one of the most dps race only final destination no movement fights in the game if done without updrafts. The green bar is the damage the top players are doing - these are the numbers that are better than 90% of the rest. Compare this to the benchmarks, and you notice a huge discrepancy.

[Kam.4092]

@Zefiris.8297 said:

@Kam.4092 said:People were doing 33k DPS with just one Shade up. I don't think Shade stacking is really doable nonstop. I don't really care if we get nerfed, cause we'd still do more than Condi Reaper.

You guys need to realize that once Weaver and Firebrand are nerfed, then Soulbeast and Scourge are next. We would eventually get nerfed anyway. I think 38k is too much. I'd think 33-34k is better.

Agreed, looking at qt dps list, average dps is around 32k +-2k for hot specs. There are outliers from hot and they need nerfs. That's also where pof elite specs should be after first round of balance changes. Acting like scourge is weak because it only does 38k will only leave you disappointed long run.

Sigh, clueless. You are

not

pulling 32k/36k/whateverk in a real fight. Benchmarks are and will always be meaningless to judge what spec is good and what isn't.Scourges do not pull this kind of damage in actual fights, just like the other classes don't pull the qt benchmarks. This includes qt's runs, by the way.

Reaper pulled 33k on benchmarks,

but the actual raid performance was more like 13k on average

(source: gw2raidar) - that's a difference of over 20k dps!THESE are the numbers you need to look at. Good, realistic DPS output for most classes is in the 25k range (and we're talking really good here. In pugs, most people pull 14k or so). Scourge is 20-22k (in pugs, you usually see them do 10-12k), with some room to improve once the rotations are improved.

Unless you guys can provide logs where scourge outperforms the other specs, it's not. Do you see guilds/pugs suddenly demanding scourges en masse for the supposedly high DPS? No? Why is that, if our DPS is "so high" due to "cool benchmark numbers"? The above is why.

Get your head out of the clouds, and understand what a benchmark actually is.

Here's some GW2raidar data:

This is for Gorseval, one of the most dps race only final destination no movement fights in the game if done without updrafts. The green bar is the damage the top players are doing - these are the numbers that are better than 90% of the rest. Compare this to the benchmarks, and you notice a huge discrepancy.

Ok, then what's the point of a thread like this then basically asking for us to get nerfed? This is basically screaming nerf Scourge to the devs. Have fun I guess. Hopefully balance hotfixes are done tomorrow.

[Zefiris.8297]

People explained it to you. Read said explanations :)

[Tobias.8632]

@Zefiris.8297 said:Benchmark data is not the same as real fightSo? Classes with higher benchmarks still pull higher numbers in real fights if played well, since generally everybody suffers the same DPS losses due to needing to stop to deal with the same mechanics.Scourge easily hits much closer to benchmark numbers then other classes due to general ease of use. It does amazing in real fights.

[Arzyn.1563]

So maybe my reading comprehension needs a bit of work, but I think the F skills are working as intended (maybe not F5, unsure). But the tooltips say that a given enemy/ally can only be affected the cast of JUST the F2-5 skill, NOT the autocast of F1 itself. For instance:

• I'm in combat, I engage 1 enemy.
• I drop 2 shades, we are all "stacked" for this example.
• Enemy nails me with 6 condis (doesn't matter what they are).
• I hit F2

What happens is that I convert 2 of the 6 condis to boons, not all 6. Because the F2 ability strictly states I can only be affected by 1 cast. However, the F1 chain doesn't have that restriction and myself + 2 shades hit the enemy for 3 "hits" of F1. This would be 3 stacks of torment ( +1 burning if using Dhuumfire).

The stacking restriction comes from me not being able to convert all 6 condis to boons. Or stacking multiple barriers with F3. Or 10 seconds of fear with with F4, etc.

For F5, that's where I am hazy. I would think the correct result is enemies are only affected once per pulse PLUS the initial activation of the ability to trigger F1, but if the testing done in the OP is right, then that doesn't line up.

There also may be something going with the positioning there. It sounds like, depending on the the sequence and such, that an enemy standing next to 1 shade may receive the full effect of the F#->F1 chain as if they were next to all shades + player. That isn't 100% clear though.

[Drekor.5217]

@Warscythes.9307 said:

@Kam.4092 said:

@Zefiris.8297 said:

@Kam.4092 said:Why are people freaking out already. Is this some Necro PTSD thing or something? I don't see 38k being that high in the end. It's a stationary target. If a target moves a lot it's way lower.

Nobody is freaking out over the numbers. The numbers are fine, and we want the numbers to stay.

The problem is: If the numbers only exist due to a bug, and that bug gets fixed, we'll not have the dps anymore. Comprendre?

People were doing 33k DPS with just one Shade up. I don't think Shade stacking is really doable nonstop. I don't really care if we get nerfed, cause we'd still do more than Condi Reaper.

You guys need to realize that once Weaver and Firebrand are nerfed, then Soulbeast and Scourge are next. We would eventually get nerfed anyway. I think 38k is too much. I'd think 33-34k is better.

I would like to echo this, 38k is not high dps, it is straight up over the top compared to HoT specs. Unless they are ok with FB, Weaver, SB, Scourge overshadow everything else then all 4 will be nerfed. Around 33k range is where you want the average to be right now.

Soulbeast and Renegade are also 40k+

This expansion has some serious power creep.

[Wintermute.5408]

Tempests did around 40k on large hitboxes, and it went down from there. I think asking for 34-35k isn't unreasonable.

[Bash.7291]

So i found this thread latter than i would have liked two, A couple things to mention.

1) In the F2-F5 skills it specifies that the effect from THOSE SPECIFIC SKILLS cannot stack on a target. However manifest shade does NOT have this limitation in any wording on it, which is why stacking works. Because of the lack of wording I believe that it is intentional.

2) The F5 skill is bugged... horribly. Here is what happens

F5 from you: Casting it procs one Manifest shade attack, and then pulses per the description. This causes 1 hit of burning/cripple/torment from MSS, and then pulses the damage and torment from F5 without any additional MSS attacks

F5 from your shade: It does not pulse the F5 Skill AT ALL, and instead pulses MSS. This is noticeable because each pulse causes only 1 stack of torment, and also burning/cripple. However, like the other skills if there are two shades ontop of each other and use a skill, it does cause two hits of MSS, but does not cause two procs of dhuumfire.

Edit: apparently Shades arent censored anymore?

[Sigmoid.7082]

This is probably more appropriate here regarding F5 and shade skills. F5 in the beta you would use DS but your shades would use MSS.

It was the same in the beta. They just changed it to combat log as DS instead of MSS.

• First thing is first, Dhuumfire appears to have some sort of weird ICD that prevents it triggering when you cast 2 shade abilities at the same time.
• The other F skills probably have some hidden ICD like Demonic Lore to prevent the target being effected by multiple instances of the extra effect.
• Likelihood is something bizarre like when you use F5 you are casting a skill called desert shroud, a modified version of F1 so they don't overlap, every second. Because you are casting a shade skill your shades constantly cast MSS proc that has had its name changed in combat log not to look silly hence all the shade skill benefits.
• This is why they overlap most likely and you get 2+(X*Shades) worth of torment per pulse because the hit from F1 has no ICD nor overlap restriction

The only one that stumps me in reapers might vs unyielding blast. But thinking out loud here..... maybe a weird stipulation between on cast grant might/ on successful attack grant vulnerability? This probably means that, similar to how on mesmer shield 5 the summon part of the skill is a separate attack from the actual block all in 1 skill, summoning the shade and the actual attack are two complete separate actions i.e F1 itself is just a summoning skill and the stipulation that it attacks when you use a shade skill is intrinsic because it itself is a shade skill. Hence why RM doesn't constantly proc but UB does. This also explains the behaviour of all the master tier traits since they are likely tied to the first half of the skill and not the second.

[Bash.7291]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:This is probably more appropriate here regarding F5 and shade skills. F5 in the beta you would use DS but your shades would use MSS.

It was the same in the beta. They just changed it to combat log as DS instead of MSS.

• First thing is first, Dhuumfire appears to have some sort of weird ICD that prevents it triggering when you cast 2 shade abilities at the same time.
• The other F skills probably have some hidden ICD like Demonic Lore to prevent the target being effected by multiple instances of the extra effect.
• Likelihood is something bizarre like when you use F5 you are casting a skill called desert shroud, a modified version of F1 so they don't overlap, every second. Because you are casting a shade skill your shades constantly cast MSS proc that has had its name changed in combat log not to look silly hence all the shade skill benefits.
• This is why they overlap most likely and you get 2+(X*Shades) worth of torment per pulse because the hit from F1 has no ICD nor overlap restriction

The only one that stumps me in reapers might vs unyielding blast. But thinking out loud here..... maybe a weird stipulation between on cast grant might/ on successful attack grant vulnerability? This probably means that, similar to how on mesmer shield 5 the summon part of the skill is a separate attack from the actual block all in 1 skill, summoning the shade and the actual attack are two complete separate actions i.e F1 itself is just a summoning skill and the stipulation that it attacks when you use a shade skill is intrinsic because it itself is a shade skill. Hence why RM doesn't constantly proc but UB does. This also explains the behaviour of all the master tier traits since they are likely tied to the first half of the skill and not the second.

Regarding your quote and the third point. The issue is that it doesnt actually proc DS at all, if it was doing both it should be 6 stacks of torment per shade, and instead its only 2, meaning that its not giving the torment stacks from DS at all.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Bash.7291 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:This is probably more appropriate here regarding F5 and shade skills. F5 in the beta you would use DS but your shades would use MSS.

It was the same in the beta. They just changed it to combat log as DS instead of MSS.

• First thing is first, Dhuumfire appears to have some sort of weird ICD that prevents it triggering when you cast 2 shade abilities at the same time.
• The other F skills probably have some hidden ICD like Demonic Lore to prevent the target being effected by multiple instances of the extra effect.
• Likelihood is something bizarre like when you use F5 you are casting a skill called desert shroud, a modified version of F1 so they don't overlap, every second. Because you are casting a shade skill your shades constantly cast MSS proc that has had its name changed in combat log not to look silly hence all the shade skill benefits.
• This is why they overlap most likely and you get 2+(X*Shades) worth of torment per pulse because the hit from F1 has no ICD nor overlap restriction

The only one that stumps me in reapers might vs unyielding blast. But thinking out loud here..... maybe a weird stipulation between on cast grant might/ on successful attack grant vulnerability? This probably means that, similar to how on mesmer shield 5 the summon part of the skill is a separate attack from the actual block all in 1 skill, summoning the shade and the actual attack are two complete separate actions i.e F1 itself is just a summoning skill and the stipulation that it attacks when you use a shade skill is intrinsic because it itself is a shade skill. Hence why RM doesn't constantly proc but UB does. This also explains the behaviour of all the master tier traits since they are likely tied to the first half of the skill and not the second.

Regarding your quote and the third point. The issue is that it doesnt actually proc DS at all, if it was doing both it should be 6 stacks of torment per shade, and instead its only 2, meaning that its not giving the torment stacks from DS at all.

• You are the only one casting F5.
• Its likely a shade skill that instantly casts a modified version of the secondary part of F1 several times. Hence why F1 and F5 don't overlap on yourself. Would also explain when you use F5 manifest always procs first in the combat log and why the damage from the shades F5 stacks like normal F1 does ( when used quick enough) but yours ticks individually. Also why your DS power damage is weaker than your shades.
• Your shades are doing nothing but reacting and casting a renamed but identical second half of MSS ( modified or MF1) because you are casting DS . Hence all the trait synergy for them only. This would explain why the first tick of DS standing in 3 shades you will see 3 individual numbers from 3 technically separate attacks . 1 number from your F1, 1 number from your DS and 1 number from their MF1. If you continue to use other f skills your normal F1 number continues to stack incandescently showing its the same attack and so does their MF1.
• Also serves to explain why DS always holds the same damage coeff being a multi hit skill where as the shades "DS" picks a different number every time.
• It stacks to 2+(X*Shades) because they are casting F1 and F1 has no overlap restriction and you are casting F5. You will never get more than 5 stacks per actual tick. 2 from yourself being the only one casting F5 and up to 3 from your shades casting a renamed F1. The only time you can/will get 6 stacks is when you first cast F5 because you cast your own normal F1 on activation along with your up to 3 shades as well as the first tick of F5 on your own being another 2 stacks.

Something along these lines anyways.

[Bash.7291]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Bash.7291 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:This is probably more appropriate here regarding F5 and shade skills. F5 in the beta you would use DS but your shades would use MSS.

It was the same in the beta. They just changed it to combat log as DS instead of MSS.

• First thing is first, Dhuumfire appears to have some sort of weird ICD that prevents it triggering when you cast 2 shade abilities at the same time.
• The other F skills probably have some hidden ICD like Demonic Lore to prevent the target being effected by multiple instances of the extra effect.
• Likelihood is something bizarre like when you use F5 you are casting a skill called desert shroud, a modified version of F1 so they don't overlap, every second. Because you are casting a shade skill your shades constantly cast MSS proc that has had its name changed in combat log not to look silly hence all the shade skill benefits.
• This is why they overlap most likely and you get 2+(X*Shades) worth of torment per pulse because the hit from F1 has no ICD nor overlap restriction

The only one that stumps me in reapers might vs unyielding blast. But thinking out loud here..... maybe a weird stipulation between on cast grant might/ on successful attack grant vulnerability? This probably means that, similar to how on mesmer shield 5 the summon part of the skill is a separate attack from the actual block all in 1 skill, summoning the shade and the actual attack are two complete separate actions i.e F1 itself is just a summoning skill and the stipulation that it attacks when you use a shade skill is intrinsic because it itself is a shade skill. Hence why RM doesn't constantly proc but UB does. This also explains the behaviour of all the master tier traits since they are likely tied to the first half of the skill and not the second.

Regarding your quote and the third point. The issue is that it doesnt actually proc DS at all, if it was doing both it should be 6 stacks of torment per shade, and instead its only 2, meaning that its not giving the torment stacks from DS at all.

• You are the only one casting F5.
• Its likely a shade skill that instantly casts a modified version of the secondary part of F1 several times. Hence why F1 and F5 don't overlap on yourself. Would also explain when you use F5 manifest always procs first in the combat log and why the damage from the shades F5 stacks like normal F1 does ( when used quick enough) but yours ticks individually. Also why your DS power damage is weaker than your shades.
• Your shades are doing nothing but reacting and casting a renamed but identical second half of MSS ( modified or MF1) because you are casting DS . Hence all the trait synergy for them only. This would explain why the first tick of DS standing in 3 shades you will see 3 individual numbers from 3 technically separate attacks . 1 number from your F1, 1 number from your DS and 1 number from their MF1. If you continue to use other f skills your normal F1 number continues to stack incandescently showing its the same attack and so does their MF1.
• It stacks to 2+(X*Shades) because they are casting F1 and F1 has no overlap restriction and you are casting F5. You will never get more than 5 stacks per actual tick. 2 from yourself being the only one casting F5 and up to 3 from your shades casting a
  renamed
  F1. The only time you can/will get 6 stacks is when you first cast F5 because you cast your own normal F1 on activation along with your up to 3 shades as well as the first tick of F5 on your own being another 2 stacks.

I am not arguing how it works. I tested it, and i get what it's doing. I am point out that its a bug. If it is supposed to cast the F1 Skill or not per pulse is one thing, but the shades DO NOT pulse DS at all.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Bash.7291 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Bash.7291 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:This is probably more appropriate here regarding F5 and shade skills. F5 in the beta you would use DS but your shades would use MSS.

It was the same in the beta. They just changed it to combat log as DS instead of MSS.

• First thing is first, Dhuumfire appears to have some sort of weird ICD that prevents it triggering when you cast 2 shade abilities at the same time.
• The other F skills probably have some hidden ICD like Demonic Lore to prevent the target being effected by multiple instances of the extra effect.
• Likelihood is something bizarre like when you use F5 you are casting a skill called desert shroud, a modified version of F1 so they don't overlap, every second. Because you are casting a shade skill your shades constantly cast MSS proc that has had its name changed in combat log not to look silly hence all the shade skill benefits.
• This is why they overlap most likely and you get 2+(X*Shades) worth of torment per pulse because the hit from F1 has no ICD nor overlap restriction

The only one that stumps me in reapers might vs unyielding blast. But thinking out loud here..... maybe a weird stipulation between on cast grant might/ on successful attack grant vulnerability? This probably means that, similar to how on mesmer shield 5 the summon part of the skill is a separate attack from the actual block all in 1 skill, summoning the shade and the actual attack are two complete separate actions i.e F1 itself is just a summoning skill and the stipulation that it attacks when you use a shade skill is intrinsic because it itself is a shade skill. Hence why RM doesn't constantly proc but UB does. This also explains the behaviour of all the master tier traits since they are likely tied to the first half of the skill and not the second.

Regarding your quote and the third point. The issue is that it doesnt actually proc DS at all, if it was doing both it should be 6 stacks of torment per shade, and instead its only 2, meaning that its not giving the torment stacks from DS at all.

• You are the only one casting F5.
• Its likely a shade skill that instantly casts a modified version of the secondary part of F1 several times. Hence why F1 and F5 don't overlap on yourself. Would also explain when you use F5 manifest always procs first in the combat log and why the damage from the shades F5 stacks like normal F1 does ( when used quick enough) but yours ticks individually. Also why your DS power damage is weaker than your shades.
• Your shades are doing nothing but reacting and casting a renamed but identical second half of MSS ( modified or MF1) because you are casting DS . Hence all the trait synergy for them only. This would explain why the first tick of DS standing in 3 shades you will see 3 individual numbers from 3 technically separate attacks . 1 number from your F1, 1 number from your DS and 1 number from their MF1. If you continue to use other f skills your normal F1 number continues to stack incandescently showing its the same attack and so does their MF1.
• It stacks to 2+(X*Shades) because they are casting F1 and F1 has no overlap restriction and you are casting F5. You will never get more than 5 stacks per actual tick. 2 from yourself being the only one casting F5 and up to 3 from your shades casting a
  renamed
  F1. The only time you can/will get 6 stacks is when you first cast F5 because you cast your own normal F1 on activation along with your up to 3 shades as well as the first tick of F5 on your own being another 2 stacks.

I am not arguing how it works. I tested it, and i get what it's doing. I am point out that its a bug. If it is supposed to cast the F1 Skill or not per pulse is one thing, but the shades DO NOT pulse DS at all.

I feel its somehow intended. They could have changed it to cast DS much like yourself since in beta it was clear your shades were casting MSS. But instead they renamed it to hide the fact. My guess they want to keep the synergy with shroud F1 traits. Probably it will end up something akin to the other shrouds innate -50% to all forms of incoming damage.

It partly makes the duration nerf make sense to me since instead of being able to have out just over 2 shades under full alacrity you can only have~1.4.

Either that or they ran out of time to fix it properly.

[Maunzi.3764]

The devs stated flat out that shades should not stack, and that attacks should not stack.There is no argument about this, this is what they said.

We have two possibilities here: This is a bug, and our DPS needs to be brought in line; or the devs changed their mind. No other option exists.

[phandaria.4891]

Whatever it is, I feel stacking 2-3 shade$ and blasting dem is SO MUCH FUN in open world PvE. I hope dev can keep this playstyle, instead of melee F5 or 1 shade F5.

[Subli.8217]

if they dont want us to stack shades then why did they make the trait that gives 5% condi duration per shade?

[Kam.4092]

@Sublimatio.6981 said:if they dont want us to stack shades then why did they make the trait that gives 5% condi duration per shade?

That's a good point.

[Zoltreez.6435]

@Kam.4092 said:

@Sublimatio.6981 said:if they dont want us to stack shades then why did they make the trait that gives 5% condi duration per shade?

That's a good point.

as a necro you guys should have learned by now we allways have atleast One heavily conflicting or outright troll trait in our skill lines...........and they never get fixed/buffed/replaced ever...... devs prefer to Nerf the hell out of the ones that actualy is good for us and sinergies well.....

[Crinn.7864]

@Sublimatio.6981 said:if they dont want us to stack shades then why did they make the trait that gives 5% condi duration per shade?

You're supposed to be spreading them over a area, not stacking them all in a spot. The devs went over this during the elite spec interview/livestream.

[Substatic.6958]

So that means we're dead again soon?

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

I dont know how the devs will manage making sure we cannot stack them, unless they treat them like an obstacle of some sort.

Ive never noticed the damage differences myself, however I am intrigued myself to test this. I would like it if you were in a shade (for the F2) you would clean 4 condis...makes necros not requiring consume condition as a condi clear (30s CD unless traited if I recall). I believe if its gonna be balanced/fixed/reworked, it needs to happen sooner than later.

[Nowaki.2136]

@Sublimatio.6981 said:if they dont want us to stack shades then why did they make the trait that gives 5% condi duration per shade?

Cuz big shade counts as x3 shades for that trait.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

Are you guys really pulsing dhuumfire burn on F5 per pulse around yourself (not your shade) in PvE?

I tried Dhuumfire on F5 in both PvP (golem) and WvW NPC and it only does one stack of burn on the initial cast around myself (not my shade).Subsequent pulses does not trigger Dhuumfire and does no burn.

However, Dhuumfire triggers on each pulse of F5 around my shade in PvP and WvW.

Can someone help confirm this too?

I think this is probably a bug? It shouldn't interact differently around the caster and around the shade.I'm not sure which is showing the correct interaction though.