opinion on pin snipe?

[Lipton Ice Tea.3580]

This problem can easily get solved by Anet by adding an Ally pull.Your commander gets pulled in a bomb? Just pull him out again, easy.Maybe add the functionality to engineers magnet. Pull enemy if target is enemy, or pull the ally if target is an ally.Problem solved, you're welcome.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I get that its a legit tactic but most of the time it ruins what could have been a good fight. anything that ruins a good fight I don't like.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

Is it just me, or does anybody else notice the QQ when anybody mentions any other kind of tactic besides running head first like a bull into a mob? There are other ways to do combat. Look at our past and you'll see all kinds of different warfare advancements. Since when is ranged combat such a no no? Even now we use missiles to deter enemies from advancing. Arrows, Arrow carts, ballista, trebs, catapults, guns, missiles, lasers, satellites capable of dropping megaton spikes from orbit, if anything has been shown from our past is that: If you can kill it from a distance, do it. It's nothing new. It's a valid tactic, and if you have it at your disposal use it. Just like Siege.

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

Kinda unclear here on the op question. Eliminating the driver is a valid strategy if it isn't done with the help of a spy on their server, it's up to the groups experience to be routed or regroup. Whenever a spy/troll/hack is involved it is never a valid tactic no matter if it's pin sniping or flipping. Although such are done in RL frequently during wars in a game it is simply dishonorable.

[Sovereign.1093]

@DaVid Darksoul.4985 said:Kinda unclear here on the op question. Eliminating the driver is a valid strategy if it isn't done with the help of a spy on their server, it's up to the groups experience to be routed or regroup. Whenever a spy/troll/hack is involved it is never a valid tactic no matter if it's pin sniping or flipping. Although such are done in RL frequently during wars in a game it is simply dishonorable.

to clarify, topic is this.

if you fight and enemy snipes the pin, meaning focus to kill the commander first, do you do the same?

[Aeolus.3615]

@"CrimsonNeonite.1048" said:It's lame if it's the only way you can win fights, by corrupting and pulling the commander into spb bubbles and necro wells/marks. While it also makes the fight commanders give up, so you'll have nothing to fight or a group that isn't going to give you a good fight anymore. You'll get loot, but less satisfaction from a less challenging fight.

That's unless they have a good support comp, which some servers don't have the luxury of having.That's what happened on Thursday, even to who was tagged up that night: https://twitch.tv/videos/295748359

It is a fine tactic, but pittefully lame since game is all about aoe and spam, would be cool if commanders search for each other in the battlefield :DIf the game was more towards single target and players knew what they have actually to kill first.

[CrimsonRise.7650]

That's just how large scale combat is now and has been for years. Single target is just for roaming, dueling and ganking, yet people still complain about the balance of the game in that regards.

So the unwritten rule is, pin sniping is not sportsmanlike. We all fight under siege especially around keeps and towers, but generally people pin snipe, because their players/group aren't good enough.

[Celsith.2753]

@CrimsonNeonite.1048 said:That's just how large scale combat is now and has been for years. Single target is just for roaming, dueling and ganking, yet people still complain about the balance of the game in that regards.

So the unwritten rule is, pin sniping is not sportsmanlike. We all fight under siege especially around keeps and towers, but generally people pin snipe, because their players/group aren't good enough.

Generally Commanders complain about pin snipe because they aren't good enough to deal with it. Your argument goes both ways buddy.

[CrimsonRise.7650]

So wait, that's your argument for pin sniping? Just to shorten the fight, without trying to own improve the quality of movement and strategy of your own group, in an even numbered fight?

Have you ever been pin sniped before? Do you know it's that easy to avoid, while trying to manage your squads movement and your own skills rotations and cooldowns, with just one firebrand per party?

The one thing I know was okay-ish, is when we had focus parties focusing on their leaders, when it was a thing in gvg years ago, before HoT.

[Celsith.2753]

@CrimsonNeonite.1048 said:So wait, that's your argument for pin sniping? Just to shorten the fight, without trying to own improve the quality of movement and strategy of your own group, in an even numbered fight?

Have you ever been pin sniped before? Do you know it's that easy to avoid, while trying to manage your squads movement and your own skills rotations and cooldowns, with just one firebrand per party?

The one thing I know was okay-ish, is when we had focus parties focusing on their leaders, when it was a thing in gvg years ago, before HoT.

If you read the earlier posts on this thread you would see I said that pin sniping is not the tactic to be using in all situations. It IS however, a useful tool when outnumbered. Doing it when the enemy are losing every fight and just going to rage quit faster is stupid, as is doing it when fights are back and forth. Which is why I tend to go for other targets when on snipe, like squishy backline, people with stupid hats or people I don't like xDI think this mentally of acting like the commander should be some untouchable target is weak and promotes brain dead w keying.

I also don't see why focus parties in a gvg would be ok if you think snipe is wrong. A gvg is an even numbered fight pitting your comp v theirs. Why is it ok in that scenario to pin snipe and not in any scenario in wvw?

[CrimsonRise.7650]

Yeah i agree with doing it, when you're heavily outnumbered. It's just that Commander Focus when the fights are balanced, is just silly. With how old this game is, we're trying to keep fight commanders, rather than them rage quit and also one of goals people might still havd is; is to improve pug quality, even though some servers end up with alot of bandwagoners , who don't care to improve.

It was generally okay to focus on a Focus Party leader, because they would tag up for positioning.

You would have fights between Focus parties, so being focused would happen naturally and it would make either your Raid Lead have to reposition their melee group to support the FP.

[Celsith.2753]

@CrimsonNeonite.1048 said:Yeah i agree with doing it, when you're heavily outnumbered. It's just that Commander Focus when the fights are balanced, is just silly..

It was generally okay to focus on a Focus Party leader, because they would tag up for positioning.You would have fights between Focus parties, so being focused would happen naturally and it would make either your Raid Lead have to reposition your melee group to support the FP.

Yes, I did do a few gvg's..... You made it sound like the FP was trying to kill their pin tho xD

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Celsith.2753 said:people with stupid hats

hey wait you don't target people with wizard hats do you

[HazyDaisy.4107]

Some people don't really realize they just sniped the commander, but considering the size of most zergs and some people's incredibly lucky RNG, I have to believe not every case is on purpose, for some it's just luck.

For every other case, I'll refer back to the AC thread, which states overwhelmly that it's perfectly acceptable to pull defenders off a wall into a waiting zerg because those defenders are avoiding fights, and should you not have enough defenders to defend, you don't deserve to retain your keep. Ergo, it's perfectly OK to pull anyone (even the commander) if your team feels like fighting and should the commanders zerg be unable to save him, they didn't deserve to keep him :).

[TheBravery.9615]

I love pin sniping commanders. Watching enemy zergs fall apart when the pin gets sniped and having their pugs scatter + get fed to roamers is the most satisfying thing about WvW.

[bq pd.2148]

@CrimsonNeonite.1048 said:So wait, that's your argument for pin sniping? Just to shorten the fight, without trying to own improve the quality of movement and strategy of your own group, in an even numbered fight?

that depends on what your up for. you seem to care more about the fight as such than about winning it. if pin sniping is a tactic that will make you win, than there is within the game no reason not to use it. unless you prefer fighting as such and dont care to win. if your opponents lose the fights faster or even log off : easy win. then the other day your opponent does pin sniping to you, you lose and you log off instead of 'imrpoving the quality of movement and strategy of your own group, in an even numbered fight' ? if everyone does pin sniping, you would improve your own movement and strategy in a way that it doesnt rely that heavily on 1 single person anymore, but you dont - instead you complain about it. thats just like people at the beginning of the game did run without stunbreaks and condi clears and did complain about CC and condis(wich were not abundant back then), instead of just using other utilities / traits. you just pick a tactic you dont like and call it 'cheesy' thats an easy way to deal with it instead of improving and making you less vulnerable to that.

@CrimsonNeonite.1048 said:Yeah i agree with doing it, when you're heavily outnumbered. It's just that Commander Focus when the fights are balanced, is just silly. With how old this game is, we're trying to keep fight commanders, rather than them rage quit and also one of goals people might still havd is; is to improve pug quality, even though some servers end up with alot of bandwagoners , who don't care to improve.

and again you want to improve your pugs without using everything at your disposal. thats like saying ill be the best cook and improve on it but i will only use sugar no other ingredient. the only reason you have to care for your opposing fight commander is also because their fight is way too dependant on that commander. if everyone in the zerg was good and less dependant on the commander, many more people could lead and the commanders wouldnt be endangered. but hey its better to let everyone just follow orders and dont look at what is going on in the fight then wonder why they keep dying when they follow another commander. maybe those fight commanders should start teaching their followers what to look for instead of just telling them what to do, so that they can also fight better when they get sniped.

[cobbah.3102]

All Pins must be sniped ,how else could we have a thread about it . You pin your a target end of story.

[Gemnaid.4219]

Only scrubs don’t go after the commander. Play 2 win. Most players are clueless and confused as what to do after the commander dies.

[coro.3176]

If you make the other commander quit and the enemy quits and logs off, then no one is having fun.

Sure, you "won", but the borderland is empty. Time to log off and go play something else.

[Israel.7056]

Effective but boring.

The point of a game isn't just to win it's to have fun. You start sniping a pin and it's not long before he rage logs and then there's nothing to fight.

I prefer not to pin snipe unless it's someone I hate and I want to ruin their day. Otherwise I try to beat people legit.

[Etheri.5406]

@"coro.3176" said:If you make the other commander quit and the enemy quits and logs off, then no one is having fun.

Sure, you "won", but the borderland is empty. Time to log off and go play something else.

What do you mean. It's time for these "casuals" to finally karmatrain the entire map for several hours while pretending it was all hard work upgrading and defending; then spam building siege to ensure they can avoid fights the moment another enemy shows up too.

And when players decide to avoid the stalemate by any means, they're evil. But they're allowed to use ANY MEANS NECESSARY to avoid losing by producing more stalemates / avoiding gameplay all together.

Not losing is a WIN for many players. It's all about managing standards and expectations.

[XenesisII.1540]

So what's the memo here? players should never target and kill commanders because they can't figure out how to defend themselves even with 40 players around them?

[BadMed.3846]

Pin snipyis a very legit wvw tactic. It uses a player's skills to spike down the commander in the middle of several allies who fail to pay attention to what's going on.

Commanders who complain about pin sniping are generally weak and bad players overall. No offense, but it is a legit learn to play issue for groups.

People complain about unblockable sniping, but surely there are ways around it too. A commander has several allies with a range of defensive and healing capabilities. They should know how to use them to their advantage.

[Etheri.5406]

@"BadMed.3846" said:Pin snipyis a very legit wvw tactic. It uses a player's skills to spike down the commander in the middle of several allies who fail to pay attention to what's going on.

Commanders who complain about pin sniping are generally weak and bad players overall. No offense, but it is a legit learn to play issue for groups.

People complain about unblockable sniping, but surely there are ways around it too. A commander has several allies with a range of defensive and healing capabilities. They should know how to use them to their advantage.

"Commanders and groups should play better". Fair enough, except most of the players here are the kind that won't organise. The kind that follows comm losely on their personal snowflake builds to "have fun". They don't care about the commander any more than getting bags and they most certainly won't organise to a point where they can counter ACTUAL commsnipe.

It's the same BS as with ACs. 5-10 bad players building 5-10 acs is a whole lot easier than getting a pug group organised to a point where they will properly deal with it - even if strictly speaking it's possible. What this does is just force comms to, in order to play and have fun, kick every casual and pug that refuses to work together and organise.

OH wait I agree. ;)

There appear to be people who believe the issue with commsnipe is... rangers or "damage". Nobody cares about those. Nobody cares about your trash tier soulbeast trying to feel relevant by pewpew'ing. It doesn't even matter if you down them.

But 10-15 players going for legit commsnipe? Actually coordinating your corrupts and pulls followed by moa only to either kill or burn most of the comm's cooldowns? Yeah goodluck dealing with that. Except that's not what most of you know as comm snipe, because as with everything 9/10 players are bad and too unorganised to even snipe decently.

ITT : awful tier players stating commanders and groups should be better when 9/10 users of this forum wouldn't even be up to par to play in a half decent zerg. Just like with AC spam. I see servers win their tier with 0.5 KDA; pretending there is some kind of "skill" in spamming siege and bunkering while backcapping. There might be counterplay, but hte counterplay requires way more organisation than having 5 pugs capable of placing "smart" acs. Oh wait no, you gotta place them on the wall in pull / meteo range then complain about how you can get hit on walls. My bad!

[BadMed.3846]

I would simply suggest, "get better or get rekt!"