Death judgement - lose all malice upon miss. Would this be a good change?

[bennypig.6428]

Make them think twice before spamming DJ -> Shadow Meld -> DJ

[Sanity Obscure.6054]

Maybe thieves just need a cooldown on DJ longer than 1 second

[Josif.2015]

I would rather see the stealth duration nerfed first, then take this into consideration.

[bq pd.2148]

to give us more reasons to use malicious backstab over it, as DJ is pretty unreliable and breaks stealth even without success ?

[Sorem.9157]

@MUDse.7623 said:to give us more reasons to use malicious backstab over it, as DJ is pretty unreliable and breaks stealth even without success ?

You almost made me feel bad for you.

Then i remembered DJ can crit 10k+ from 1200 range from stealth with no real cd other than your endurance regeneration rate.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Id like to see a 25%-50% damage reduction just for attacking in stealth...u give up something to gain a big advantage like surpise attack seem fair to me.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

just remove the pve dmg modifiers... +15% dmg per malice is beyond ridiculous. make the change for both pvp and wvw.

[Bunny.9834]

DJ gives you a WARNING.

[Vieux P.1238]

@DragonSlayer.1087 said:DJ gives you a WARNING.

yes..it's called death.

[bq pd.2148]

@Sorem.9157 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:to give us more reasons to use malicious backstab over it, as DJ is pretty unreliable and breaks stealth even without success ?

You almost made me feel bad for you.

Then i remembered DJ can crit 10k+ from 1200 range from stealth with no real cd other than your endurance regeneration rate.

i think you missunderstood.i already see malicious backstab as a much better use of malice in most cases.but tbh now thinking a bit more about it i would actually like this, because this would make DJ a garanteed malice reset wich is awesome for someone playing with m7 if i can only keep range pressure at that moment, as it would allow for endless spamming. if i can i will already use backstab over DJ to kill people anyway as it hits harder and is harder to avoid and doesnt break stealth on miss.

[bq pd.2148]

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Id like to see a 25%-50% damage reduction just for attacking in stealth...u give up something to gain a big advantage like surpise attack seem fair to me.

that would affect malicous backstab but not deaths judgement, as deaths judgement is never a hit out of stealth.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:just remove the pve dmg modifiers... +15% dmg per malice is beyond ridiculous. make the change for both pvp and wvw.do you know the modifier it has in pve? there is already a huge difference.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

DE is fine, even the stealth is fine as it's mostly a down fall. Only gripe i have is 10% dmg per malice for back stab, that was 1 of the most stupidst power creep buffs ever created.

[bq pd.2148]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:DE is fine, even the stealth is fine as it's mostly a down fall. Only gripe i have is 10% dmg per malice for back stab, that was 1 of the most stupidst power creep buffs ever created.

that is probably the strongest aspect about current deadeye. it could be changed and deadeye would still be in a good position, but i am not sure what kind of malice scaling effect would be good for daggers. i mean currently i only use my d/p set for that backstab and ooc stealthing. in combat i dont need daggers cause energy sigil on the rifle

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:DE is fine, even the stealth is fine as it's mostly a down fall. Only gripe i have is 10% dmg per malice for back stab, that was 1 of the most stupidst power creep buffs ever created.

that is probably the strongest aspect about current deadeye. it could be changed and deadeye would still be in a good position, but i am not sure what kind of malice scaling effect would be good for daggers. i mean currently i only use my d/p set for that backstab and ooc stealthing. in combat i dont need daggers cause energy sigil on the rifle

I'd go as far as 5 stacks = 25% or even 20%. You can still hit hard and take out most glass builds - just not tanky builds

[bq pd.2148]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:DE is fine, even the stealth is fine as it's mostly a down fall. Only gripe i have is 10% dmg per malice for back stab, that was 1 of the most stupidst power creep buffs ever created.

that is probably the strongest aspect about current deadeye. it could be changed and deadeye would still be in a good position, but i am not sure what kind of malice scaling effect would be good for daggers. i mean currently i only use my d/p set for that backstab and ooc stealthing. in combat i dont need daggers cause energy sigil on the rifle

I'd go as far as 5 stacks = 25% or even 20%. You can still hit hard and take out most glass builds - just not tanky builds

not worth the malice then and especially not the risk standing in melee. i dont need malice for glass builds anyway and tanky builds dont make sense to kill them with backstab as they often would survive it barely especially with boons. so its already against tanky targets better to binding shadows (hopefully removing protection) into DJ followed by TRB to finish them off.the only ones were it would make a difference are warriors because they are squishy but have enough hp to survive a low malice stab and they can face tank the buildup due to passives, but warriors wont stand a chance solo anyway on an open field.

so i would prefer if it is changed, then to a completely different effect, not sure what would make sense. a scaling CC would help with follow up pressure, scaling range would help landing it etc.

[Helicity.3416]

(Honestly, it's fine, there's no way I can do any of this on my DE if pressured even slightly)

[bq pd.2148]

why so many stealth utilities ? thats a bit overkill. you dont need that much and lose out on something different.

[Helicity.3416]

@MUDse.7623 said:why so many stealth utilities ? thats a bit overkill. you dont need that much and lose out on something different.

If you must know, I'm (literally) slightly handicapped, having extra stealth is very helpful to my playing near zergs :)

[bq pd.2148]

@Helicity.3416 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:why so many stealth utilities ? thats a bit overkill. you dont need that much and lose out on something different.

If you must know, I'm (literally) slightly handicapped, having extra stealth is very helpful to my playing near zergs :)

oh well, i dont play that much near zergs on my deadeye. at least not near my own unless they i know they gonna wipe.

but lets bringt topic back to what it actually is losing malice on a missed DJ to 'think twice before spamming'.the funny thing is if we lose malice, we can actually spamm without thinking because it will enable a new m7 proc allways after a DJ. without losing malice there is no m7 ini and lost stealth. so now we have to think more about using DJ. if we lost malice we could just spamm , dj, spamm, dj non stop without ever running out of ini :)

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Yeah, losing malice would actually be a buff in terms of ini regen and boons since you are already revealed by using DJ. Besides, the skill already has a pretty obvious tell along with flight time, most good enemies will dodge it easily at range if they know you're in the area. The ones that get killed by DJ are usually the ones that either are stuck in an animation (like dodge), try to block/reflect out of habit or that dodge as soon as I stealth regardless of whether I'm attacking. I fought one druid recently who was too tanky to kill with backstab, but when I went stealth he used both dodges and lightning reflex in quick succession then had nothing to avoid the DJ. He did this repeatedly over several fights, and that's what got him killed.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:just remove the pve dmg modifiers... +15% dmg per malice is beyond ridiculous. make the change for both pvp and wvw.do you know the modifier it has in pve? there is already a huge difference.

uh yeah 75% @ 5 stacks or 105% @ 7 is sort of a big increase.

im against dj revealing you on miss since no other stealth attack works this way. anet wont do this.

[babazhook.6805]

@MUDse.7623 said:why so many stealth utilities ? thats a bit overkill. you dont need that much and lose out on something different.

I think BP a sound choice as it doubles up as a Stun break and has some group utility along with Blast finisher. HIS is a sound heal now in and of its own with a rather fat heal +regen plus excellent targetted condition clear. It generally means no damaging conditions will remain on you with one stealth use. If one is not in TR for the lower Trickster cooldown it very competitive with Withdraw. Not my own personal choices but there are reasons to use other then more stealth.

[bq pd.2148]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:just remove the pve dmg modifiers... +15% dmg per malice is beyond ridiculous. make the change for both pvp and wvw.do you know the modifier it has in pve? there is already a huge difference.

uh yeah 75% @ 5 stacks or 105% @ 7 is sort of a big increase.

im against dj revealing you on miss since no other stealth attack works this way. anet wont do this.

well i allways thought the reveal and the way it casts were there because of the high damage. then they moved it to stealth attacks wich confused me. and then they gave backstab a damage scaling at wich point all the tells and reveal of DJ no longer make sense.backstab has a lower scaling but with higher base it will provide more damage. considering the reveal on the beginning of the cast, DJ is in most 1 vs 1 scenarios inferior even with higher damage scaling on malice.

the scaling in pve is 125% at 5 and 175% at 7 wich is alot higher than in pvp/WvW. so again we dont have a pve scaling.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

If anything, a missed Death Judgement should double the Malice rate.

[DeceiverX.8361]

On the one hand, I think OP's idea has merit because the skill is already unblockable and there's no real hard ICD.

OTOH, the rifle would be otherwise way too easy to negate, and Malicious Backstab just replaces DJ and is really not much different. And it has no real tell and deals more damage.

Iunno, this is why the sniper concept is bad. You can't make it reasonably fair.