Raids for newcomers in a nutshell

[Warscythes.9307]

@segman.3560 said:

@IllegalChocolate.6938 said:I personally would like for this continue.Here's why:

Assuming that the raid community is shrinking and we know that this type of behavior helps in preventing the community to grow. The internal metrics of the game will eventually tell Anet that 10 man raid content is not a successful venture, thus what has happened to world dungeon content will eventually happen to raids.

Just as planned.

This is already happening of course, it's no coincidence that mythright gambit has taken this long to make, or it could just be because they wanted to make some new original content for the instance, who knows?

I think you are spot on. Raids are already repeating dungeon scenario, which is indeed pathetic, but interesting to watch. together with overall community denial state.

What dungeon scenario are you talking about? Dungeons are replaced by fractals and raids are created due to demand for higher difficulty group content. The length of this raid release is long but it is only 1 day longer than the previous longest period. If you don't want to do raids fine, nobody forces you to. I don't want to do JP but you don't see me complaining about Anet creating JP even though I don't care about it.

[Axl.8924]

Personally i think it should stay hard, because its more rewarding.I don't want content to be dumbed down.I know i have only done a couple raids, but that was because of circumstances having to do with chances to my class.

Anyways back on topic:Its not hard to just join a training group and just keep trying until you get gud as they say.

[Voltekka.2375]

@Warscythes.9307 said:

@segman.3560 said:

@IllegalChocolate.6938 said:I personally would like for this continue.Here's why:

Assuming that the raid community is shrinking and we know that this type of behavior helps in preventing the community to grow. The internal metrics of the game will eventually tell Anet that 10 man raid content is not a successful venture, thus what has happened to world dungeon content will eventually happen to raids.

Just as planned.

This is already happening of course, it's no coincidence that mythright gambit has taken this long to make, or it could just be because they wanted to make some new original content for the instance, who knows?

I think you are spot on. Raids are already repeating dungeon scenario, which is indeed pathetic, but interesting to watch. together with overall community denial state.

What dungeon scenario are you talking about? Dungeons are replaced by fractals and raids are created due to demand for higher difficulty group content. The length of this raid release is long but it is only 1 day longer than the previous longest period. If you don't want to do raids fine, nobody forces you to. I don't want to do JP but you don't see me complaining about Anet creating JP even though I don't care about it.

Actually, they dont make jp either anymore. Just saying.

[Warscythes.9307]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Warscythes.9307 said:

@segman.3560 said:

@"IllegalChocolate.6938" said:I personally would like for this continue.Here's why:

Assuming that the raid community is shrinking and we know that this type of behavior helps in preventing the community to grow. The internal metrics of the game will eventually tell Anet that 10 man raid content is not a successful venture, thus what has happened to world dungeon content will eventually happen to raids.

Just as planned.

This is already happening of course, it's no coincidence that mythright gambit has taken this long to make, or it could just be because they wanted to make some new original content for the instance, who knows?

I think you are spot on. Raids are already repeating dungeon scenario, which is indeed pathetic, but interesting to watch. together with overall community denial state.

What dungeon scenario are you talking about? Dungeons are replaced by fractals and raids are created due to demand for higher difficulty group content. The length of this raid release is long but it is only 1 day longer than the previous longest period. If you don't want to do raids fine, nobody forces you to. I don't want to do JP but you don't see me complaining about Anet creating JP even though I don't care about it.

Actually, they dont make jp either anymore. Just saying.

Nah they still want to, I remember reading it from an older interview. It is apparently that is really "expensive" to make JPs but is not abandoned. I don't particularly care about it but I admit it is probably one of the more unique features about GW2 so I don't see it going away.

[Shikaru.7618]

This conversation never unfolds this way. Its more like

1. I want to raid
2. Show kp or li
3. I dont have kp or li.
4. Join a training run or a guild
5. I dont want to
6. Create your own group
7. I dont want to wipe with 9 other people who are equally as unexperienced as me

[polvere.2805]

@segman.3560 said:

I think you are spot on. Raids are already repeating dungeon scenario, which is indeed pathetic, but interesting to watch. together with overall community denial state.

Actually the community is not big but alive. In my old training discord we have constantly new trainees. It's an italian only training group but we see around 2 to 3 new people a week. Pretty good since it's not tied to any guild. I personally started raiding in june and started full clearing consistently around the last days of july.

Dungeon died out only because new more interesting content was added and rewards were nerfed. Btw you use as your only metric the lfg (which is quite alive). Go take a look in most guilds and see what they do. You will be surprised.Are you angry cause raiders don't want to carry you trough content ?

[segman.3560]

@polvere.2805 said:

@segman.3560 said:

I think you are spot on. Raids are already repeating dungeon scenario, which is indeed pathetic, but interesting to watch. together with overall community denial state.

Actually the community is not big but alive. In my old training discord we have constantly new trainees. It's an italian only training group but we see around 2 to 3 new people a week. Pretty good since it's not tied to any guild. I personally started raiding in june and started full clearing consistently around the last days of july.

Dungeon died out only because new more interesting content was added and rewards were nerfed. Btw you use as your only metric the lfg (which is quite alive). Go take a look in most guilds and see what they do. You will be surprised.Are you angry cause raiders don't want to carry you trough content ?

I raid every week but the content feels already abandoned by devs.

[Belorn.2659]

@IllegalChocolate.6938 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:you forgot the part where they point you to a training raid group/guildYea and newbie answer -but I dont want/need to train, I want to kill.Raider -but thats what everyone had to do when begining.Newbie -easy mode raids please.

...The clientele majority simply wants a plug and play approach to content, which is why overworld content is generally favored in any MMO, including WoW where the raid community is also a vast minority.

...

They tried that with fractals. We have 0-100 ladder of training and even daily rewards to encourage people to teach those who are new to fractals. Sadly the system does nothing to actually prepair people for 100cm and I suspect the plug and play model of learning as you go would have to be expanded by a few hundred more ladder steps to eliminate the need for title and kp gates.

They could have copied the same model for raid where wing 1 was 100 levels of grind to unlock, wing 2. 200 levels to unlock wing 3, and so on. I suspect the reason why we don't have different modes of raid is that anet simply did not want to copy over the fractal model. It was easier to just have the community create their own system.

[polvere.2805]

@segman.3560 said:I raid every week but the content feels already abandoned by devs.

If you raid every week then why do you put yourself out of the raiding community ? Are you in denial too ?

[nsleep.7839]

@"Shikaru.7618" said:This conversation never unfolds this way. Its more like

1. I want to raid
2. Show kp or li
3. I dont have kp or li.
4. Join a training run or a guild
5. I dont want to
6. Create your own group
7. I dont want to wipe with 9 other people who are equally as unexperienced as me

Exactly. They have they reasons, I understand those reasons, but I don't agree with them.

Like, this content is specifically created for people who want to be challenged, who want to struggle as part of a group and have to deal with all the pluses and minuses of doing that, they want to feel that all failures were "lessons" and once you beat the content you evolved as a player.

This means that you need to approach raids with at least these things in mind, finding a group that suits you and allows you in is already part of the challenge. Of course, you can buy kills and/or get literally carried, but keep in mind that these things are possible because the team that took you in for this allowed it, even in this case you have to follow the rules set by a group that you're being part of, why would it be any different or "easier" if you actually want to conquer the content by your own merit?

You can't just go into raids expecting success unless the team is actually working for that success, and for that you pretty often need to put your ego aside and not only do your best, some times your best won't be enough so you will need to improve, but this is true for everyone in a team, and improving may come from hearing stuff that you can't take personally. If someone tells you you're bad at the game it just means you're bad at the game now, but you can always improve, same if someone say you're doing something wrong, you try to fix it. Don't be sorry, be better. This is true even for more laid back groups, even if they're not try harding to their best, they can eventually succeed after improving slowly at their own pace.

If after reading all this you still feel like raiding isn't for you... Well, you're probably right, but before saying the community and people who raid are toxic, think about this for a moment: if these toxic people can work as a team towards a goal, why can't everyone else do it? What made these people reach their goal in the first place?

[segman.3560]

@polvere.2805 said:

@segman.3560 said:I raid every week but the content feels already abandoned by devs.

If you raid every week then why do you put yourself out of the raiding community ? Are you in denial too ?

yes

[segman.3560]

@Belorn.2659 said:

@IllegalChocolate.6938 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:you forgot the part where they point you to a training raid group/guildYea and newbie answer -but I dont want/need to train, I want to kill.Raider -but thats what everyone had to do when begining.Newbie -easy mode raids please.

...The clientele majority simply wants a plug and play approach to content, which is why overworld content is generally favored in any MMO, including WoW where the raid community is also a vast minority.

...

They tried that with fractals. We have 0-100 ladder of training and even daily rewards to encourage people to teach those who are new to fractals. Sadly the system does nothing to actually prepair people for 100cm and I suspect the plug and play model of learning as you go would have to be expanded by a few hundred more ladder steps to eliminate the need for title and kp gates.

Problem with fractals is people can (and do) skip the whole progression with gold.

[Ferus.3165]

@Tyson.5160 said:I always thought that Raids in Gw2 should be very similar to how Wow raiding works and very similar to W4. Holding to a structure. Start with an easy boss then go to a medium and then hard for the end. Generally the first few raid bosses in a Wow raid are easy. The 2nd Wing is the medium and the final wing is where kitten gets tough.

They could start with two easy bosses, a medium then hard, kinda like wing 4 approach.

That's why wing 4 is actually a good wing even though a minority of very vocal raiders always complain about how easy it is. Ofc it gets very easy after a while. If you like harder content you can run the challenge mode every time, but the low difficulty to get into cairn, mo and samarog allows a big majority of people to participate in those raids.

And a lot more people could actually do it because those bosses are pretty easy once you learn the basics, even players who only have a few hours per week and only have a mediocre class perfomance (provided that they have the necessary gear). It's just the entry level that seems hard for many players. And that is why a training guild is a must for new raiders. It helps immensely when there are 2-3 people in the raid that know exactly what to do and can help you with your mistakes. Many people would be surprised how fast they'd be able to kill the first 3 w4 bosses even if they think they are not good enough/don't have enough time for raids.

[Vinceman.4572]

@segman.3560 said:Problem with fractals is people can (and do) skip the whole progression with gold.

That's not a problem and/or this implementation doesn't generate any problems. There are bad players either way. Doesn't matter if they play every level from 1 up to 100 like many did and still are not very skilled or if they buy the AR to skip everything. They stay unskilled no matter what.

[segman.3560]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@segman.3560 said:Problem with fractals is people can (and do) skip the whole progression with gold.

That's not a problem and/or this implementation doesn't generate any problems. There are bad players either way. Doesn't matter if they play every level from 1 up to 100 like many did and still are not very skilled or if they buy the AR to skip everything. They stay unskilled no matter what.

So... you mean... training raid teams are redundant?

[Voltekka.2375]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@segman.3560 said:Problem with fractals is people can (and do) skip the whole progression with gold.

That's not a problem and/or this implementation doesn't generate any problems. There are bad players either way. Doesn't matter if they play every level from 1 up to 100 like many did and still are not very skilled or if they buy the AR to skip everything. They stay unskilled no matter what.

I did T1 to T3 once. And then i did T4 daily. Guess what helped me get better at T4? Thats right, T4. Daily T4. And that is cause i wanted to improve, otherwise i would have stuck with lower tiers. I guess skipping tiers, and Anet knows of this, isnt really as much of an issue as people claim it is. Player issue, now this one i can agree with.

[Vinceman.4572]

@segman.3560 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@segman.3560 said:Problem with fractals is people can (and do) skip the whole progression with gold.

That's not a problem and/or this implementation doesn't generate any problems. There are bad players either way. Doesn't matter if they play every level from 1 up to 100 like many did and still are not very skilled or if they buy the AR to skip everything. They stay unskilled no matter what.

So... you mean... training raid teams are redundant?

I haven't made any statement about training raid teams.

[segman.3560]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@segman.3560 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@segman.3560 said:Problem with fractals is people can (and do) skip the whole progression with gold.

That's not a problem and/or this implementation doesn't generate any problems. There are bad players either way. Doesn't matter if they play every level from 1 up to 100 like many did and still are not very skilled or if they buy the AR to skip everything. They stay unskilled no matter what.

So... you mean... training raid teams are redundant?

I haven't made any statement about training raid teams.

If progression through content is irrelevant, why is it suggested for raiders then?

[IllegalChocolate.6938]

@zealex.9410 said:

@"IllegalChocolate.6938" said:I personally would like for this continue.Here's why:

Assuming that the raid community is shrinking and we know that this type of behavior helps in preventing the community to grow. The internal metrics of the game will eventually tell Anet that 10 man raid content is not a successful venture, thus what has happened to world dungeon content will eventually happen to raids.

Just as planned.

This is already happening of course, it's no coincidence that mythright gambit has taken this long to make, or it could just be because they wanted to make some new original content for the instance, who knows?

Deepstone also took 8 months to come out. Does that mean that 5 man content isnt working as well?

If a content dies in gw2 its mainly because it doesnt get supported by anet not necessarily because its inherently bad.

5 man content was never well received, I recall the conversations Robert Hrouda had with many people on the forums, he was the original captain of the open world dungeons like AC, CM, CoE, etc. The launch of fractals was poorly received albeit, a large portion of the backlash of the introduction of fractals wasn't the content per say but rather the introduction to the stat increases of ascended items.

However you are very correct in stating that they never get any support, I am still frustrated that I can't do condition damage to burrows in AC for example.

We can argue that the reason for this is due to them budgeting resources based on reactionary data. Assuming that we follow identical trends with WoW, we can then also state that the fractal community is also very small as the dungeon community is also small in WoW(I remember when some of their content designers were talking about the reception of various pieces of content in BC and WotLK).

Unless someone like Mike or Crystal Reid outright says "Hey guys, for those wondering what the metrics are for instance content, here they are", we can assume that nothing has changed over the course of the lifetime of GW2, meaning the community is still very small.

I personally would like to be proven wrong, because I like low manned content to receive more support, largely due to the fact that I can actually see what's going on.

EDIT: also for the record I never said the content was in itself bad. I had already stated what my angle is in a different thread as to why instance content is generally not well received or just has a small community. Here is the link:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/676939#Comment_676939

What I have said there is the big elephant in the room that no one wants to address properly, and because of this, no competitive scene in sPvP or high PvE content will ever take off. Until what I have stated in that thread gets addressed properly, we will always struggle. Anet already knows this, which is why they made the new player experience attempt, but more and a better job has to be done.

[Vinceman.4572]

@segman.3560 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@segman.3560 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@segman.3560 said:Problem with fractals is people can (and do) skip the whole progression with gold.

That's not a problem and/or this implementation doesn't generate any problems. There are bad players either way. Doesn't matter if they play every level from 1 up to 100 like many did and still are not very skilled or if they buy the AR to skip everything. They stay unskilled no matter what.

So... you mean... training raid teams are redundant?

I haven't made any statement about training raid teams.

If progression through content is irrelevant, why is it suggested for raiders then?

Don't ask me I haven't made any suggestions.

[Grogba.6204]

@"IllegalChocolate.6938" said:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/676939#Comment_676939

What I have said there is the big elephant in the room that no one wants to address properly, and because of this, no competitive scene in sPvP or high PvE content will ever take off. Until what I have stated in that thread gets addressed properly, we will always struggle. Anet already knows this, which is why they made the new player experience attempt, but more and a better job has to be done.

Something I can wholeheartedly agree with as I see said behaviour on a regular basis among my guildmembers and acquintances. Yesterday I helped two guildmates clear the five minute Jademaw Achievement for Ad Infinitum 1 and it was a struggle. Both players have been playing for over two years at this point and reached T3 difficulty but could neither deal with the targeted laser nor dodge it. Worse: They kept insisting on using their shortbow/longbow on the jade colossi with the foreseeable results. It took us three attempts culminating in me and another guildmade doing the fight on our own and having the two of them stay behind and just keep a crystal in their hands at all times. This was on fractal level 20. (I could have asked them to /gg but this way they at least participated)

They do not care for advice at worst or they do not understand the advice at best. They keep running into a wall expecting it to cave rather than changing their approach. For them, the game is an immersive Pen&Paper with chat function and socializing aspects. And this is completely fine!

However, said players cannot become the lowest common denominator for any sort of challenging content in any game and said players are very much at fault for how the "toxic" elite interacts with PUGs.

[BRNBRITO.9624]

I've started raiding recently and my experience has been great so far, been doing T4's/CMs for a while though i've always been sort of a PvE tryhard on MMORPG's i enjoyed.

I literally just joined 50/100/250+ ess/LI/KP groups and said i have no actual exp/kp/etc but i read a guide, am geared, know my rotations and they can kick me if my dps is low or if i mess up any mechanic, every single group has accepted me so far and every single boss was a 1-shot on exp'd groups with me being top dps on 80% of the fights. Also, training discords helped a ton as well, really patient trainers and really active.

I can see that happening every once in a while though , and yes, expect being flamed if you do mess up repeatedly, do less damage than a support, run weird stats/traits etc... Not claiming i'm the best, a toxic elitist or any of that, just be open and honest about it and pull your weight and you should have an easy time getting into raids. Myself, i just always loved clearing stuff fast and smooth and seeing how good i can perform and always try to better that.

Obviously not everybody learns at the same pace so some people might feel comfortable jumping into exp'd groups while some might wanna have some chill practice/training run before.

(MY EXPERIENCE, though i'm coming from a much less populated game with an absolutely toxic community)

[IllegalChocolate.6938]

@Grogba.6204 said:

@"IllegalChocolate.6938" said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/676939#Comment_676939

What I have said there is the big elephant in the room that no one wants to address properly, and because of this, no competitive scene in sPvP or high PvE content will ever take off. Until what I have stated in that thread gets addressed properly, we will always struggle. Anet already knows this, which is why they made the new player experience attempt, but more and a better job has to be done.

Something I can wholeheartedly agree with as I see said behaviour on a regular basis among my guildmembers and acquintances. Yesterday I helped two guildmates clear the five minute Jademaw Achievement for Ad Infinitum 1 and it was a struggle. Both players have been playing for over two years at this point and reached T3 difficulty but could neither deal with the targeted laser nor dodge it. Worse: They kept insisting on using their shortbow/longbow on the jade colossi with the foreseeable results. It took us three attempts culminating in me and another guildmade doing the fight on our own and having the two of them stay behind and just keep a crystal in their hands at all times.

This was on fractal level 20.

(

I could have asked them to /gg but this way they at least participated

)

They do not care for advice at worst or they do not understand the advice at best. They keep running into a wall expecting it to cave rather than changing their approach. For them, the game is an immersive Pen&Paper with chat function and socializing aspects.

And this is completely fine!

However, said players

cannot

become the lowest common denominator for any sort of challenging content in any game and said players are very much at fault for how the "toxic" elite interacts with PUGs.

I understand the frustrations associated with these people however I personally do not believe they are at fault. The fault must always be accepted by the designer of the software especially if the lowest common denominator is a vast majority of the playerbase. You have seen it, I have seen it, Anet has leaked it was a large amount of the playerbase to some of the esports competitors back when that was a thing, we have seen changes to the game that portray that they are aware of the situation and want to change it, the new player experience is proof of this, stepping away from big meta events like dragon stand in PoF is also evidence of this as well.

Therefore I propose we start from the ground up with the vanilla content, I have seen that new players still approach ascalonian catacombs for example as their first dungeon, this is important as this sets the impression for the rest of the dungeon content in the game including fractals.

There are multiple avenues I think we can approach this as a game.

1. We can do it WoW style, where the player can preview a profession to see what it does. In that game, you are now shown what abilities do. Lets look at the warrior for example. In WoW, you are shown right away that heroic strike is an attack ability to do extra damage and are given a brief period to use it, next you would be given a taunt ability, you are told what it does and to use it, you are then given a scenario to taunt mobs off of ally NPCs. Step by step tutorials like this are a must in any software environment.

2. My personal proposal is to teach the modular fundamentals of each profession in GW2, because in a way, each profession is kind of made of the same building blocks, just built different and with more of one and less of another. Abilities do look different but a fire field from a warrior vs a guardian is still a fire field that can be used to stack might for example. Those who already have a level 80 should go through a "trials" instance which would be required for them to use the fractal dungeon finder, something that WoW does that I personally think has improved the PuGs in that game.

In both the personal story and current world dungeons, we can teach core concepts and how we may apply them with the profession of choice, and if the character is lacking, provide a world source for the objective.

Let's look at breakbar for example. Because of how important this mechanic is, after the player has been taught how to control the character, deal damage, etc, we should look at this element early on in the player's life cycle.

A) Let's turn Ascalonian Catacombs Story into a solo instance for this example.

Right after opening the coffins, we are introduced to the Ascalonian Lieutenant, a hammer wielding foe, we see that he was also given a breakbar mechanic. Let's take this encounter and upgrade it with current PoF standards.

We will make these modifications to the encounter.

The moment Rytlock engages with the Lieutenant, a foe fire protective bubble is emitted, reducing damage greatly. Rytlock then states "Dang, this guy is kind of tough, how can we stop this guy? We need to think of something!". Cue Cut-scene in which a piece of rubble drops from the ceiling, knocking the lieutenant senseless, which causes the bubble to drop. Rytlock says "That's it! let's hurt'em while we can!", Lieutenant recovers and we are back to square one with a full defiance bar. Rytlock then states "We need to find some ways to knock this guy down, its our only chance, any ideas?". Cue arrows pointing to the mob's breakbar with message "Use stuns, knockdowns, chills, etc to drain the targets defiance bar to 0" while also flashing abilities on the player's bar that can do this, if no ability is present, provide rocks to be thrown. After the encounter, do an object complete page similar to the heart completion page that then gives the player info in regards to what abilities can be used to deal with defiance bar that pertains to the profession used, do not allow the player to skip the page until the player has completely scrolled through the contents like a ToS agreement.

B) Hodgin's explorable path is the perfect opportunity to teach everything fire. Let's turn this path into content that teaches how to interact with fire fields and make best use of them, including using fire shield, blasting might, or with burn projectiles.

We will change the burrow encounter.

For this new redesign, Hodgin's will no longer need to be protected in the middle instead:

The moment we enter the area, we will cue cut-scene where he lies down a fire field, then uses a blast finisher with proper camera angles that help signify that he's doing something specific, then take down a couple trash gravelings before entering the area in an epic way. Player says "Interesting maneuver, what was that?", Hodgins replies "An elementary maneuver, the elements of our world hold many different secrets and will more than happy tell you them if you allow it, fire isn't just for burning our foes, we can use it to empower ourselves too as long as you are accepting.". Cue cut-scene, burrow appears and gravelings spur out slowly. Hodgin says "It looks like we got more company, I can empower myself to an extent, but I think I need your help for these ones." Hodgins then lays down a fire field while fending off gravelings, our object is to stack might for him. Cue objective "Provide Hodgins the boon "Might", with boon symbol shown. Because we are expected to be lvl30 here, let's make it no more than 9 stacks of might and provide rocks and might providing elixirs around the area as a secondary source. Might is given, cue Hodgins casting glyph of storms to destroy the burrow, rinse and repeat the each burrow getting slightly harder to do.

Bonus Achievement: Provide Might by using blast finishersBonus Achievement: Provide Might by only using your abilities.Bonus Achievement: Provide Might by using a blast finisher that also damages nearby gravelings

Once the objective is complete, show completion page also detailing some examples in regards to how a profession could provide the might boon to himself or other people. Also show what an elemental field looks like along with it's jigsaw puzzle aura that it emits.

------------End Examples-------------

This is what I mean by teaching people. Stuff like this HAS to be done, it doesn't matter what game it is, if a concept is important, it NEEDS to be shown and taught properly especially if its important. It can be taught in a very streamlined and fun way that is easily digestible for even the lowest of denominators. If these things are taught in a fun and engaging way, it will encourage people to dig deeper into the systems if it makes their experience more enjoyable.

Once a PROPER new player experience is instantiated and we are taught the process of Guild wars 2 in an easily digestible way, I can assure you, I GURANTEE you, the raid scene will grow and PUGs will be of higher quality, I will put money on it.

Similar aspects can already be seen in the PoF content and as a result, when I see people engage Warden Amala, many of the pugs that I have seen can handle the breakbar extremely well. This may be due to the fact that Defiance Bar objectives have been placed in the PoF story in itself, therefore we can confirm that Anet is very familiar with this these issues. When I see the wyvern matriarch's defiance bar situation in Verdant Brink constantly fail and the fact that nothing leading up the matriarch's encounter actually requires breakbar knowledge in contrast to Warden Amala, the conclusion is crystal clear.

We can eliminate 20 birds with 1 stone, if we instantiate these tutorials, early on in the player life cycle, revamp all dungeons to teach and test the player's understanding of guildwars 2 and a hard gate trials instance for those who are already lvl80. There will be better sPvPers, better WvWers, and most important for you guys, better Raiders. Money back guarantee.

Grogba, in your case with your guildmates, an instance must be taught what reflection is, how it can be used against you and how you can use it against others, something mandatory.

[Linken.6345]

@segman.3560 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@segman.3560 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@segman.3560 said:Problem with fractals is people can (and do) skip the whole progression with gold.

That's not a problem and/or this implementation doesn't generate any problems. There are bad players either way. Doesn't matter if they play every level from 1 up to 100 like many did and still are not very skilled or if they buy the AR to skip everything. They stay unskilled no matter what.

So... you mean... training raid teams are redundant?

I haven't made any statement about training raid teams.

If progression through content is irrelevant, why is it suggested for raiders then?

well it seems to hard for them to go in as 10 new people inside a raid wing and clear it hence they need to train.

[Talindra.4958]

If you dont focus on getting it done than getting all wrapped up with how you feel about your position with other players.. then your progress in raids will be harder and longer.