No downed WvW... Permanently

Israel.7056 · October 7, 2018

@Heartpains.7312 said:Isreal, this have nothing to do with being carried or not, and my complains will be about it will promote certain classes/builds I said this before and I will say it again.
Mesmers
Thieves
Engies
Rangers.
Warriors possible.

This is already the roaming meta and has been for quite some time.

If you're dying to that stuff now then it'll be harder without downed state for you but that's a l2p issue you will get better over time.

I don't think the zerg meta would change much either tbh.

Heartpains.7312 · October 7, 2018

If you mean the 5-6 holos, I am okay against them lol but coz my class is capable of fighting them, and coz when I got the right people they were dying "not gonna act like Rambo we were dying before the right people logged and the not right people left".

Nothing seems to be changing for some time now. Zerg meta other meta didn't seem to change much.

but then again I gave the 5-6 holos just for an example that I fought and saw others fighting them and if I saw them again, I will just avoid them coz "the right people" seems to be taking LONG break from this game ^^

Heartpains.7312 · October 7, 2018

anduriell, maybe in zergs these classes are not there, but other than that they are the ones that are there =pas for the firebrands, that thing makes me whine more than anything in this game trust me, for me it is worst than getting 1 backstabbed.

And I will leave the zerg talk since I don't really go with zergs but I do know that scourges and firebrands are still a thing =p

And from what you are saying it seems like you want to play those classes and make others who zergs quit? coz then you can make group and just hunt people who follows zerg or try to and just kill them, it is not right. Just try to get a group who are willing to change to some of these classes that are able to run and see for yourself, go to zergs or whatever and just aim for one person and down that target then run "I am saying down and run coz of what you want you can do that and actually kill that person and just run", these classes might have hard time to play in zergs if not impossible but they are not weak at all.

Now imagine if these people got tired and quit, you think you will have anyone to fight?

anduriell.6280 · October 7, 2018

@"Heartpains.7312" said:
Now imagine if these people got tired and quit, you think you will have anyone to fight?Actually in WVW i play both "types". Firebrand and scourge(mostly scourge thou) when I have a blob to join or ranger and a DE(mostly ranger thou) when i don't.

I'll give you another point of view: the gamemode will gain more players because they are not forced anymore in one class.You want to play pewpew DE or Ranger? now you can with the zerg busting havock groups (real ones, not the gankers group we have now which 5 DE/mirage/holo gank one dude) .

Zerg meta will stay the same, with classes with the most aoe access.But now you'll have smaller groups which are effective against bigger groups and that will bring another meta to the game.

More diversity is always good in any situation, you being able to play with whatever you feel like and still be really useful is a no brainner.

So No-Downed will be good in (in a rough assessment):

Players will cooperate more between them. As now you can't "F to ress" the fallen when you go for support you will have an active gameplay (right now is very passive) to avoid your team to get under 0. Support will be appreciated and seen.
The Zerg busting squads will come back. Because bigger zergs aren't hard carried anymore, smaller guilds will have the change to take down blobs if they are better and them. A lot of old WvW guilds will come back at least to try this.
Now you are free to play what you want (mostly..) all classes now they have an spot, as pewpew killers, zergbusting teamcomp , melee zerg, support group. Now everything can be useful.
GvG may have a short of a come back. Now small guild can play the game and be truly impactful , it is possible to have opposite servers guilds fights when they are defending, attacking or in the way of another objective.
As Israel pointed out the players will get better with better understanding of the game which it is always in betterment not only of the community but also of how the community see the company developing the game.
One shot builds will be toned down. Now Anet devs can't use the reasoning "but you can be ressed" if you get hit by 25K instagib. So eventually due Devs realisation and players complains those builds wll be toned down to a fast combos.

You see, WvW is not PvE it needs other set of rules, it can't use the same. Because it promotes toxicity and annoyance when you can see other players are carried by those.

Baldrick.8967 · October 7, 2018

@Israel.7056 said:
@Baldrick.8967 said:
@Israel.7056 said:
@Chaba.5410 said:
@Israel.7056 said:
@"Justine.6351" said:Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

Polls are trash.

Depends on how they're structured this one seems pretty simple to me.

The poll is clearly biased towards no down state.

There is no vote option of 'leave it as it is, it's fine', rather the leave it option spouts on about being ressed by a zone blob.

Removing down state would be fine if you remove one shot builds, completely rework or remove stealth, restrict max damage from skills and reduce condi bombs and rework boons and boon strips. As that's not going to happen, removing downed state will just encourage yet more cheese builds and do nothing for the game mode except make even more gank squads.

All the people claiming to be consistently dying to so called "one shot" builds are bad players imo they're going to get rolled no matter what until they l2p.

I spent probably 6 hrs a day fighting non stop during no downed state week with 150+ ping on eu servers and I got 100-0d maybe 6 or 7 times total on a rev and it was always my fault.

Most of the people left playing this game are so bad that they can't deal with simple mmo things like burst or stealth and no downed state just filters them out faster because they can't get carried by resses when they fail a dodge or don't los properly or waste defensives etc.

If you're worried about not being able to compete without downed state that is a reflection on your own skill level not a problem with the game itself.

I can roll around on my warrior or guard or indeed rev all day and not worry about being one shotted. That's not the issue. Fail a dodge? Right. Because you can know EXACTLY when that attack is coming from stealth or other classes that don't have as many instant defences against the one shot builds (and which is why they travel in packs...).

Nothing to do with skill. Some classes just handle the inst-gib mechanics much better than others.

But sure, scrap downed state- and let me know which server you're fighting against, tag up and see how fast your dead as pin sniping reaches new levels.

Personally I hardly ever get ressed from down state- mainly because I'm one of the last left standing in most fights which we're losing, so maybe scrap down state and bring in snipe wars and more focus groups.

Wonder how the long range meta with instant build ballistas would suit. Just drag your blob into 3 of them, fire and half your numbers including most of core are downed, oh wait now they are all dead. Would you enjoy that meta? Distance would be key- as as soon as your invuln drops you're spiked.

Israel.7056 · October 7, 2018

@Baldrick.8967 said:I can roll around on my warrior or guard or indeed rev all day and not worry about being one shotted. That's not the issue. Fail a dodge? Right. Because you can know EXACTLY when that attack is coming from stealth or other classes that don't have as many instant defences against the one shot builds (and which is why they travel in packs...).

Alright here's the thing: the whole point of stealth is the element of surprise. That's literally the entire point of stealth. Once you understand that you know that you have to keep your head on a swivel and be paranoid if you're roaming or running back to your group solo because you can always get opened on. I've made some common sense suggestions for stealth in other threads but in principle you're not supposed to see the hit coming so you have to anticipate it maneuver around the map carefully and react quickly if you get jumped.

Rev doesn't really have much in the way of o shit buttons except for glint heal and that's not gonna do much except give you a few extra seconds to contemplate how badly you fucked up if you eat an big opener from a thief or a mesmer because they're just going to stow and wait and then burst you again and now you don't have the big heal.

I definitely got 100-0 solo a few times during no downed state week but quite frankly the fight would've been the same with downed state because I didn't see the hit coming and that's my fault.

Nothing to do with skill. Some classes just handle the inst-gib mechanics much better than others.

Yes and no. The auto procs dont require mechnical skill to help you survive a stealth opener this is true. But quite often the difference between getting jumped and not getting jumped is just being able to quickly identify audio cues or noticing some purple mesmer bullshit out of the corner of one eye and that's all part of awareness. I consider awareness to be an aspect of game knowledge which in turn is a big part of what makes a good player imo.

But sure, scrap downed state- and let me know which server you're fighting against, tag up and see how fast your dead as pin sniping reaches new levels.

Perhaps. But what if downed state has been carrying pins and the way pins play this whole time? This is the only game I've ever played where it's not always a terrible idea to walk out in front of everyone else all the time. Perhaps the usual lead from the front approach would have to change if pins couldn't rely on illusion, mi and chain ressing whenever they overextended. Food for thought.

Personally I hardly ever get ressed from down state- mainly because I'm one of the last left standing in most fights which we're losing, so maybe scrap down state and bring in snipe wars and more focus groups.

I get ressed all the time because I go ham because I know I can.

Wonder how the long range meta with instant build ballistas would suit. Just drag your blob into 3 of them, fire and half your numbers including most of core are downed, oh wait now they are all dead. Would you enjoy that meta? Distance would be key- as as soon as your invuln drops you're spiked.

If I ever die to something that dumb then I deserve to die.

Chaba.5410 · October 7, 2018

@Baldrick.8967 said:
@Israel.7056 said:
@Baldrick.8967 said:
@Israel.7056 said:
@Chaba.5410 said:
@Israel.7056 said:
@"Justine.6351" said:Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.