thank god we have player that allow necromancer in end game content

[DragonFury.6243]

did they run out of ideas

[Dadnir.5038]

Those kind of words toward the necromancer have been seen since release, there is nothing novel there. It just show that those players aren't aware that the necromancer have been catching up lately in regard of PvE dps. There will always be those guys that think that they are dead right and won't change their outdated opinion even if you prove them wrong.

[Jethro.9376]

It's good, new players can see/feel how it used to be when dungeon "speedruns" were a thing. ;)

[Nimon.7840]

The problem is, that it's still true.

I can do almost the golem DPS (500 away) that snowcrows do. And still I'm getting out dpsd by any other DPS in my raidgroup, even if they are playing not so good or don't reach golem DPS benchmarks.

I mean. Scourge is good at sabetha for kiting and desmina for golems and wurms, but outside of that, better reroll to another spec.

Now you could come, tell me to play reaper. As it's benchmark is 3k higher than scourge.

Problem: it's still 3k below meta classes and it's way more conditional than meta classes.Here's why:Scholar uptime. Well it got changed, but you will still loose 5 % DPS by going in shroud with less than 90% health. For the whole time of being in shroud, while other classes will loose it only for a short period of time due to regeneration healing them back up.

Or next: you take a big hit in shroud, that will loose you 10% DPS (because lifeforce will drop below 50%). While other classes will only loose 5% and can get healed back up, while on reaper you have to get the lifeforce yourself.

[ElderNewt.5840]

Trouble with necro it's either too powerful and broken or it's too weak and unwanted.

[Blue.1207]

Make your own group and let necros in. This is what I do when I want to play Power Herald.

GG. Ez.

[Zero.3871]

@"HardRider.2980" said:Trouble with necro it's either too powerful and broken or it's too weak and unwanted.

necro isnt too powerful. People in this game are just supid. so many cry ever: "oh i died because of that condi trash of necro"when they had 2 stacks of bleeding and cripple,chill, 1 stack vulnerability. 4 condis without any dmg. in fact they died because they got hit for 12k+ hits by 3-4 Revenants or eles. but they still flame necros because this noobs simply dont understand what killed them. they are overstrained with the Things that happened around them so they just copy Forum Flames and Think they are very knowledged persons, but in fact they arent. but thats gw2. too many noobs without any clue of the game thinking they are pvp gods and now everything...

[Xxnecroxx.4039]

stuff like that is why I haven't played this game for about 7 months I read every update, nothing yet has warranted me to come back yet to my necro that I have invested thousands of hours and geared out/made to look PERFECT just for him to hit like a wet noodle and never be accepted in end game content

[Anchoku.8142]

I still think Arenanet should implement auto-matching for LFGs and not allow kicking. Then, players will just have to deal with a group a server picked for them or /gg.

[ElderNewt.5840]

@Zero.3871 said:

@"HardRider.2980" said:Trouble with necro it's either too powerful and broken or it's too weak and unwanted.

necro isnt too powerful. People in this game are just supid. so many cry ever: "oh i died because of that condi trash of necro"when they had 2 stacks of bleeding and cripple,chill, 1 stack vulnerability. 4 condis without any dmg. in fact they died because they got hit for 12k+ hits by 3-4 Revenants or eles. but they still flame necros because this noobs simply dont understand what killed them. they are overstrained with the Things that happened around them so they just copy Forum Flames and Think they are very knowledged persons, but in fact they arent. but thats gw2. too many noobs without any clue of the game thinking they are pvp gods and now everything...

There have been times actually where in certain situations we have been overpowered.As a necro I have to admit that.Sadly.. The answer to that is to nuke the class instead of bringing down the numbers a little bit

[Obtena.7952]

What amazes me is that people that want to play how they want have a problem with other people that want to play how they want.

[DragonFury.6243]

@Obtena.7952 said:What amazes me is that people that want to play how they want have a problem with other people that want to play how they want.

What amazes me is that people like you wont see the point of this discussion let me educate you

1- necro have the lowest dps in end game content (cdps or pdps)2- necro support have limited to no role in end game content ( qadim kiter healer )3- end game content mechanic wise necro have a limited role (reaper solo lamp 1 and 2 \epi in Soulless Horror)4- because of the first 3 points the community became toxic to necro (even if i started a squad as a necro i wont take another necro)too many necro = less dps and utility

the sad thing is from pvp and wvw the pve necro get nerf from rune change the pve necro get nerfhow i know this is sad cuz in the last patch the only profession in the game that get a nerf was a necro

[Noha.3749]

uhm..

Necro got the best AoE in the game, would be hard to balance it if they didnt have less single target dmg out there.AoE as in hitting multiple targets, not multiprocs on "big" targets*.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"Noha.3749" said:uhm..

Necro got the best AoE in the game, would be hard to balance it if they didnt have less single target dmg out there.AoE as in hitting multiple targets, not multiprocs on "big" targets*.

I'm affraid it's a narrow point of view. It's like denying all the aoe possibilities of the other professions. I mean, AoE that pulse damage are pretty common on other profession and tend to have relatively short cool down, like guardian's symbols or let's say elementalist's lava font or even revenant's mallyx utilities. Cleaving was even literally an impossibility for the necromancer before HoT.

It's not that the necromancer have the "best" AoE in the game nor the most AoE, it's more that it is easier for him to lay/use them. Laying down AoE as a necromancer is just more forgiving than for other professions, nothing more, nothing less.

[Noha.3749]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Noha.3749" said:uhm..

Necro got the best AoE in the game, would be hard to balance it if they didnt have less single target dmg out there.AoE as in hitting multiple targets, not multiprocs on "big" targets*.

I'm affraid it's a narrow point of view. It's like denying all the aoe possibilities of the other professions. I mean, AoE that pulse damage are pretty common on other profession and tend to have relatively short cool down, like guardian's symbols or let's say elementalist's lava font or even revenant's mallyx utilities. Cleaving was even literally an impossibility for the necromancer before HoT.

It's not that the necromancer have the "best" AoE in the game nor the most AoE, it's more that it is easier for him to lay/use them. Laying down AoE as a necromancer is just more forgiving than for other professions, nothing more, nothing less.

well fair enough, i wasnt excatly pinpointing what i meant.Ill say that Scourge got the best potential to cover as much ground as possible with AoE, i dont know any other profession able to cover such a massive area with AoEs, allthough the AoE abilities by themselves against a single target can be strong, its not on par with dedicated single target damage that other professions can provide.

But those professions cant cover the same amount of landscape with AoEs :p For better and worse i suppose. If bosses had more adds than what they do i think stuff would look different.

[Gustaff.6581]

I think, maybe we need more raid encounters with lots of adds, so the next time these people try to enter in your party you tell them "oh well, look who we have here, the "necro-hater", well buddy, no party for you".

in fact, make a whole raid with bosses full of adds.

[DragonFury.6243]

@Noha.3749 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Noha.3749 said:uhm..

Necro got the best AoE in the game, would be hard to balance it if they didnt have less single target dmg out there.AoE as in hitting multiple targets, not multiprocs on "big" targets*.

I'm affraid it's a narrow point of view. It's like denying all the aoe possibilities of the other professions. I mean, AoE that pulse damage are pretty common on other profession and tend to have relatively short cool down, like guardian's symbols or let's say elementalist's lava font or even revenant's mallyx utilities. Cleaving was even literally an impossibility for the necromancer before HoT.

It's not that the necromancer have the "best" AoE in the game nor the most AoE, it's more that it is easier for him to lay/use them. Laying down AoE as a necromancer is just more forgiving than for other professions, nothing more, nothing less.

well fair enough, i wasnt excatly pinpointing what i meant.Ill say that Scourge got the best potential to cover as much ground as possible with AoE, i dont know any other profession able to cover such a massive area with AoEs, allthough the AoE abilities by themselves against a single target can be strong, its not on par with dedicated single target damage that other professions can provide.

But those professions cant cover the same amount of landscape with AoEs :p For better and worse i suppose. If bosses had more adds than what they do i think stuff would look different.

scourge cover large amount of landscape when he uses Sand Savant witch good in pvp and wvw but useless in end game content cuz its a dps lose and used only for support healer scourgeeven if the scourge uses all his small shade to cover large area the boss will get hit from 1 sand shadescourge damage AOE radius is 180 and the damage AOE of every melee weapon in the game range from 120 to 220so AOE isnt the problem here at all at least in pve mode

[Mini Crinny.6190]

We use support scourge in our CMs + T4 fractal runs, makes life so easy since the barrier ignores the agony mechanic

[Obtena.7952]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:What amazes me is that people that want to play how they want have a problem with other people that want to play how they want.

What amazes me is that people like you wont see the point of this discussion let me educate you

The point of the discussion ignores the fact that they didn't want you in the team ... because they play how they want ... which is exactly the thing you say they shouldn't be doing because you want to play how you want. That's some mighty strong irony right there. pLaying how you want doesn't mean you impose yourself on other players.

The point of the discussion also ignores this is how the game is designed and intended to work; those people don't want to team with you ... and that's OK for them to refuse you, for whatever good or bad reason they have to do so. The points you list don't change this fundamental principle. They don't want to team you because of your class; make some choices and deal with it.

[DragonFury.6243]

@Obtena.7952 said:

The point of the discussion ignores the fact that they didn't want you in the team ... because they play how they want ... which is exactly the thing you say they shouldn't be doing because you want to play how you want. That's some mighty strong irony right there. pLaying how you want doesn't mean you impose yourself on other players.

The point of the discussion also ignores this is how the game is designed and intended to work; those people don't want to team with you ... and that's OK for them to refuse you, for whatever good or bad reason they have to do so. The points you list don't change this fundamental principle. They don't want to team you because of your class; make some choices and deal with it.

what a pathetic respond prepare to be educated again1st they never said they dont want me in their squad they said we dont want a necro in our squad so dont make this post about me2nd what give you the idea that i impose myself on them all i saw is a LFG for a raid with KP and a role and i had both so i joined them then they kick me and i asked why that all3rd if you still try to make this about me and how they didnt want me in the squad then plz post a video here of you joining and playing a LFG for full W6 and W5 as a necro

words mean nothing without actions i hope you learn this at least

[Obtena.7952]

@DragonFury.6243 said:words mean nothing without actions i hope you learn this at least

So true ... you should take your own advice: What actions has Anet done in the history of this game that makes you think what I've said is incorrect? My observations are based on the game history and Anet's approach to developing it; yours are not. I don't have these problems you do ... I understand how the game works and taken that into account when doing content with Necro. It's not the game that should accommodate you, it's that you need to adjust to the game.

The fact is that you experience this because of the way the game is designed and you have little appreciation for it. You want to play how you want while ignoring how others want to play. It's not something that missing or forgotten in the game that causes this; the design of the game results in favoured classes for people that want to play optimally.

Bottomline is that you need to learn how to team as a Necro. yes, it's an extra step other classes don't frequently encounter; that's just the nature of the class. Once you figure it out (and its the same for ALL classes), you don't have these problems. IIRC, this isn't the first time you've been told what you need to do to either so honestly, if you aren't willing to take people's advice that know what they are doing and just complain the game doesn't cater to your exacting whim, that's your fault.

[DragonFury.6243]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

words mean nothing without actions i hope you learn this at least

So true ... you should take your own advice: What actions has Anet done in the history of this game that makes you think what I've said is incorrect? My observations are based on the game history and Anet's approach to developing it; yours are not. I don't have these problems you do ... I understand how the game works and taken that into account when doing content with Necro. It's not the game that should accommodate you, it's that you need to adjust to the game.

The fact is that you experience this because of the way the game is designed and you have little appreciation for it. You want to play how you want while ignoring how others want to play. It's not something that missing or forgotten in the game that causes this; the design of the game results in favoured classes for people that want to play optimally.

Bottomline is that you need to learn how to team as a Necro. yes, it's an extra step other classes don't frequently encounter; that's just the nature of the class. Once you figure it out (and its the same for ALL classes), you don't have these problems. IIRC, this isn't the first time you've been told what you need to do to either so honestly, if you aren't willing to take people's advice that know what they are doing and just complain the game doesn't cater to your exacting whim, that's your fault.

again you make this about me and that is pathetic i told you that so plz post a video here of you joining and playing a LFG for full W6 and W5 as a necroas i told you words mean nothing without actions

[Anchoku.8142]

@"Obtena.7952""Play how you want" really means "Play according to the game's rules," not total anarchy.

Arenanet set up the mechanics for instanced content and the mechanics for grouping. There are many other examples of group PvE in the MMO industry, both good and bad, to use as examples. They chose to give players a great deal of control over grouping and designed the encounters. If that results in profession and build exclusion, that is on them and, if raiding is a controversial topic, it is because of Arenanet's design approach.

Feel free to raid, not raid, change your main profession, flame your raid group members, train your raid group members, never buy gems, or play another game. Those are your rights.

Should Arenanet think raids are not quite what they envisioned, they have the right to change the rules. They did that with ascended gear, for example, opening it up for people who play competitive modes and fractals instead of having it having it be PvE-only. However, changing a bunch of content could be more work than just changing a profession.

Reaper was introduced to give Necro power-cleave. Scourge gave group support. Both were OP at some point due to bugs and unintended exploits and are now thoroughly nerfed out of meta. On the other hand, both are good for way-off-meta groups.

That is one reason to consider automated grouping: If a raider was faced with a real chance of off-meta builds and group comp, Necro with its steady dps up-time might not seem so bad.

[Obtena.7952]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

words mean nothing without actions i hope you learn this at least

So true ... you should take your own advice: What actions has Anet done in the history of this game that makes you think what I've said is incorrect? My observations are based on the game history and Anet's approach to developing it; yours are not. I don't have these problems you do ... I understand how the game works and taken that into account when doing content with Necro. It's not the game that should accommodate you, it's that you need to adjust to the game.

The fact is that you experience this because of the way the game is designed and you have little appreciation for it. You want to play how you want while ignoring how others want to play. It's not something that missing or forgotten in the game that causes this; the design of the game results in favoured classes for people that want to play optimally.

Bottomline is that you need to learn how to team as a Necro. yes, it's an extra step other classes don't frequently encounter; that's just the nature of the class. Once you figure it out (and its the same for ALL classes), you don't have these problems. IIRC, this isn't the first time you've been told what you need to do to either so honestly, if you aren't willing to take people's advice that know what they are doing and just complain the game doesn't cater to your exacting whim, that's your fault.

again you make this about me and that is pathetic

No, what's pathetic is that you think you should simply be able to join whatever team you want, irregardless of how the people in that team want to play. For some reason, you think play how you want ideal should only apply to you when it suits you and screw everyone else. How come I don't have the same problems you do? We play the same class, yet I can raid and you claim you can't. That IS a you problem. You see, some people have this figured out; you are part of the group that doesn't. Yes, Anet will make changes and meta will shift, but that's not going to change how people who play optimal teams think; they are still going to want to have optimal classes. Choose well.

@Anchoku.8142 said:@Obtena.7952"Play how you want" really means "Play according to the game's rules," not total anarchy.

Sure, but we don't have total anarchy. There is a system in place and it allows players to play exactly how they want. If it wasn't according to the games rules, it wouldn't work like it does; it would be hard coded to team people through the game's rules, not the people's. Maybe it should have been, but then again, I wan't to play with my friends, not randomly selected players from a pool the game decides. Allowing players choice has and still is a major selling point of this game. I doubt that's going to change because some people can't figure out how to get teams with classes they want to play.

[DragonFury.6243]

@"Obtena.7952" said:

No, what's pathetic is that you think you should simply be able to join whatever team you want, irregardless of how the people in that team want to play. For some reason, you think play how you want ideal should only apply to you when it suits you and screw everyone else. How come I don't have the same problems you do? We play the same class, yet I can raid and you claim you can't. That IS a you problem. You see, some people have this figured out; you are part of the group that doesn't. Yes, Anet will make changes and meta will shift, but that's not going to change how people who play optimal teams think; they are still going to want to have optimal classes. Choose well.

again pathetic dont make it about me this profession/necromancer forums NOT player/dragonfury forumsagain you go with the idea that i wanted to join them or i impose myself on them i did told that at first i saw a LFG for a raid say full W6 20+ qadim KP \ 1 DPS and i have more than 20 qadim KP and i am a dps so i join them they didnt say we dont want necro at the LFG because the commander of the squad thought that its well known fact that no necro is allowed in raidsand then they kick me and the conversation startedthat why you see me saying show me qadim to see if he have more KP than me and he didntagain dont make it about me this profession/necromancer forums NOT player/dragonfury forums please i hope you understand that