Firebrand/scourge wars 2

[myboybuzzy.5809]

Who else is over this meta of red circles of death.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

[Dawdler.8521]

When I die its generally from being run over by the entire zerg while stunned - in which case their composition is irrelevant - or something taking all my hp, unseen and in an instant - in which case its usually an ele or rev. In particular smaller ~20 man guild fights its pretty much always the ele that carries them with meteor showers.

[XECOR.2814]

Rework scourge. Pls. Im necro main. I want to be able to go out of spawn alone.

[Akainu.8216]

@Dawdler.8521 said:When I die its generally from being run over by the entire zerg while stunned - in which case their composition is irrelevant - or something taking all my hp, unseen and in an instant - in which case its usually an ele or rev. In particular smaller ~20 man guild fights its pretty much always the ele that carries them with meteor showers.

That's not trueIt's the comp Rev eles scourges that get supportet by the fbGood Rev can easy have the same dmg as a ele

[Strider Pj.2193]

@XECOR.2814 said:Rework scourge. Pls. Im necro main. I want to be able to go out of spawn alone.

Roll a ranger/Mesmer/thief/holo.

[Jski.6180]

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

Aaaaaaand your point is?

So you are saying that a full zerg with only necros and guardians is better then one with all of the above?

[Jski.6180]

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

Aaaaaaand your point is?

So you are saying that a full zerg with only necros and guardians is better then one with all of the above?

Yes. And the zerg with less of the 2 classes are worst off. Its even worst with the rune/ sigil update pushing the meta more into the bunker meta where necros and guardians are both the bunker AND the counter to that bunker.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

Aaaaaaand your point is?

So you are saying that a full zerg with only necros and guardians is better then one with all of the above?

Yes. And the zerg with less of the 2 classes are worst off. Its even worst with the rune/ sigil update pushing the meta more into the bunker meta where necros and guardians are both the bunker AND the counter to that bunker.

Who would have guessed that a simple rune/sigil update would remove 5 classes from the WvW Meta.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Have to agree. Sure if anything is "missing" from the squad, inevitably the commander is asking for Firebrands, Scourge or Spellbreakers. But every squad I've played in for the past month (20-35 people) has included at least 2-3 Heralds (one of which is me), 70% of the time at least 1 Medi Scrapper, 2-3 Eles and 1-2 Mesmers. Thieves and Rangers are still not requested.

[Jski.6180]

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

Aaaaaaand your point is?

So you are saying that a full zerg with only necros and guardians is better then one with all of the above?

Yes. And the zerg with less of the 2 classes are worst off. Its even worst with the rune/ sigil update pushing the meta more into the bunker meta where necros and guardians are both the bunker AND the counter to that bunker.

Who would have guessed that a simple rune/sigil update would remove 5 classes from the WvW Meta.

Lol simple what world are you living in it sounds super nice. Any way the rune / sigil update only made it worst to a very stagnant meta of 2 classes.

[morrolan.9608]

I was over it a month into POF.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

Aaaaaaand your point is?

So you are saying that a full zerg with only necros and guardians is better then one with all of the above?

Yes. And the zerg with less of the 2 classes are worst off. Its even worst with the rune/ sigil update pushing the meta more into the bunker meta where necros and guardians are both the bunker AND the counter to that bunker.

Who would have guessed that a simple rune/sigil update would remove 5 classes from the WvW Meta.

Lol simple what world are you living in it sounds super nice. Any way the rune / sigil update only made it worst to a very stagnant meta of 2 classes.

r/wooosh

[Kaiser.9873]

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

Aaaaaaand your point is?

So you are saying that a full zerg with only necros and guardians is better then one with all of the above?

Yes. And the zerg with less of the 2 classes are worst off. Its even worst with the rune/ sigil update pushing the meta more into the bunker meta where necros and guardians are both the bunker AND the counter to that bunker.

This is not right. Gotta have that heavy 1200 power bomb. That's something necro staff cannot provide. Rev/party and at least a couple weavers/squad are needed, or at least wanted. Haven't seen a pure Scourge/FB comp in the last several months, and even then there many SBs and a few revs mixed in. Most guild groups I'm seeing lately are running(or trying to run) FB, Scourge, power, power, SB as main party comp.

[Jski.6180]

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

Aaaaaaand your point is?

So you are saying that a full zerg with only necros and guardians is better then one with all of the above?

Yes. And the zerg with less of the 2 classes are worst off. Its even worst with the rune/ sigil update pushing the meta more into the bunker meta where necros and guardians are both the bunker AND the counter to that bunker.

This is not right. Gotta have that heavy 1200 power bomb. That's something necro staff cannot provide. Rev/party and at least a couple weavers/squad are needed, or at least wanted. Haven't seen a pure Scourge/FB comp in the last several months, and even then there many SBs and a few revs mixed in. Most guild groups I'm seeing lately are running(or trying to run) FB, Scourge, power, power, SB as main party comp.

Few things scourge is not just a staff using class it very well can do high dmg all be it limented on number of targets with axe as well as getting good aoe dmg from its shade skill. FB effectually cover all other needs for support.

Yes ppl do use other classes to free up scorges and FB to fill there rolls better but you do not need them for classes in them self you need the other classes as pure gear and "wepon attk types" so in a way you DO have 2 classes only comps of scorge and FB and the "other" is not a real class its a filler. I am not one to call pink slime a type of meat but it sure used to hold meat together.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

Aaaaaaand your point is?

So you are saying that a full zerg with only necros and guardians is better then one with all of the above?

Yes. And the zerg with less of the 2 classes are worst off. Its even worst with the rune/ sigil update pushing the meta more into the bunker meta where necros and guardians are both the bunker AND the counter to that bunker.

This is not right. Gotta have that heavy 1200 power bomb. That's something necro staff cannot provide. Rev/party and at least a couple weavers/squad are needed, or at least wanted. Haven't seen a pure Scourge/FB comp in the last several months, and even then there many SBs and a few revs mixed in. Most guild groups I'm seeing lately are running(or trying to run) FB, Scourge, power, power, SB as main party comp.

Few things scourge is not just a staff using class it very well can do high dmg all be it limented on number of targets with axe as well as getting good aoe dmg from its shade skill. FB effectually cover all other needs for support.

Yes ppl do use other classes to free up scorges and FB to fill there rolls better but you do not need them for classes in them self you need the other classes as pure gear and "wepon attk types" so in a way you DO have 2 classes only comps of scorge and FB and the "other" is not a real class its a filler. I am not one to call pink slime a type of meat but it sure used to hold meat together.

I think we reached a point where both sides will never agree, so the best way to solve it is ingame proff.

Its reset day today so how about we post the squad setup from the reset night.

Maybe i can get a pic from multiple maps.

[Jski.6180]

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

Aaaaaaand your point is?

So you are saying that a full zerg with only necros and guardians is better then one with all of the above?

Yes. And the zerg with less of the 2 classes are worst off. Its even worst with the rune/ sigil update pushing the meta more into the bunker meta where necros and guardians are both the bunker AND the counter to that bunker.

This is not right. Gotta have that heavy 1200 power bomb. That's something necro staff cannot provide. Rev/party and at least a couple weavers/squad are needed, or at least wanted. Haven't seen a pure Scourge/FB comp in the last several months, and even then there many SBs and a few revs mixed in. Most guild groups I'm seeing lately are running(or trying to run) FB, Scourge, power, power, SB as main party comp.

Few things scourge is not just a staff using class it very well can do high dmg all be it limented on number of targets with axe as well as getting good aoe dmg from its shade skill. FB effectually cover all other needs for support.

Yes ppl do use other classes to free up scorges and FB to fill there rolls better but you do not need them for classes in them self you need the other classes as pure gear and "wepon attk types" so in a way you DO have 2 classes only comps of scorge and FB and the "other" is not a real class its a filler. I am not one to call pink slime a type of meat but it sure used to hold meat together.

I think we reached a point where both sides will never agree, so the best way to solve it is ingame proff.

Its reset day today so how about we post the squad setup from the reset night.

Maybe i can get a pic from multiple maps.

We are talking in hyperbole-ism for sure but i am one to try to hold to the other side point of logic or will be we like talking to a wall.

The problem is you cant realty play wvw with out these 2 classes but you can play wvw with out all of the other classes its a real problem.

Its not a real problem right now as you cant kick ppl from wvw who do not play the right classes you can kick them from group. The thing is the game wvw is about to become group only aimed in effectually you CAN start to kick ppl from worlds who are not running the right classes. Turning your head when you see 1 or 3 non meta classes in a group as every thing being good is foolish and dooming a lot of ppl from very bad wvw game play and over all making wvw more and more toxic.

This IS a problem anet not going to do any thing about it if ppl do not say its a problem. The problem only going to get worst and WILL kill off wvw as a viable game type.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

Aaaaaaand your point is?

So you are saying that a full zerg with only necros and guardians is better then one with all of the above?

Yes. And the zerg with less of the 2 classes are worst off. Its even worst with the rune/ sigil update pushing the meta more into the bunker meta where necros and guardians are both the bunker AND the counter to that bunker.

This is not right. Gotta have that heavy 1200 power bomb. That's something necro staff cannot provide. Rev/party and at least a couple weavers/squad are needed, or at least wanted. Haven't seen a pure Scourge/FB comp in the last several months, and even then there many SBs and a few revs mixed in. Most guild groups I'm seeing lately are running(or trying to run) FB, Scourge, power, power, SB as main party comp.

Few things scourge is not just a staff using class it very well can do high dmg all be it limented on number of targets with axe as well as getting good aoe dmg from its shade skill. FB effectually cover all other needs for support.

Yes ppl do use other classes to free up scorges and FB to fill there rolls better but you do not need them for classes in them self you need the other classes as pure gear and "wepon attk types" so in a way you DO have 2 classes only comps of scorge and FB and the "other" is not a real class its a filler. I am not one to call pink slime a type of meat but it sure used to hold meat together.

I think we reached a point where both sides will never agree, so the best way to solve it is ingame proff.

Its reset day today so how about we post the squad setup from the reset night.

Maybe i can get a pic from multiple maps.

We are talking in hyperbole-ism for sure but i am one to try to hold to the other side point of logic or will be we like talking to a wall.

The problem is you cant realty play wvw with out these 2 classes but you can play wvw with out all of the other classes its a real problem.

Its not a real problem right now as you cant kick ppl from wvw who do not play the right classes you can kick them from group. The thing is the game wvw is about to become group only aimed in effectually you CAN start to kick ppl from worlds who are not running the right classes. Turning your head when you see 1 or 3 non meta classes in a group as every thing being good is foolish and dooming a lot of ppl from very bad wvw game play and over all making wvw more and more toxic.

This IS a problem anet not going to do any thing about it if ppl do not say its a problem. The problem only going to get worst and WILL kill off wvw as a viable game type.

Sure. In the alliance system scenario this can become a problem.

But i doubt that this will happen on a large scale.

[Jski.6180]

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

Aaaaaaand your point is?

So you are saying that a full zerg with only necros and guardians is better then one with all of the above?

Yes. And the zerg with less of the 2 classes are worst off. Its even worst with the rune/ sigil update pushing the meta more into the bunker meta where necros and guardians are both the bunker AND the counter to that bunker.

This is not right. Gotta have that heavy 1200 power bomb. That's something necro staff cannot provide. Rev/party and at least a couple weavers/squad are needed, or at least wanted. Haven't seen a pure Scourge/FB comp in the last several months, and even then there many SBs and a few revs mixed in. Most guild groups I'm seeing lately are running(or trying to run) FB, Scourge, power, power, SB as main party comp.

Few things scourge is not just a staff using class it very well can do high dmg all be it limented on number of targets with axe as well as getting good aoe dmg from its shade skill. FB effectually cover all other needs for support.

Yes ppl do use other classes to free up scorges and FB to fill there rolls better but you do not need them for classes in them self you need the other classes as pure gear and "wepon attk types" so in a way you DO have 2 classes only comps of scorge and FB and the "other" is not a real class its a filler. I am not one to call pink slime a type of meat but it sure used to hold meat together.

I think we reached a point where both sides will never agree, so the best way to solve it is ingame proff.

Its reset day today so how about we post the squad setup from the reset night.

Maybe i can get a pic from multiple maps.

We are talking in hyperbole-ism for sure but i am one to try to hold to the other side point of logic or will be we like talking to a wall.

The problem is you cant realty play wvw with out these 2 classes but you can play wvw with out all of the other classes its a real problem.

Its not a real problem right now as you cant kick ppl from wvw who do not play the right classes you can kick them from group. The thing is the game wvw is about to become group only aimed in effectually you CAN start to kick ppl from worlds who are not running the right classes. Turning your head when you see 1 or 3 non meta classes in a group as every thing being good is foolish and dooming a lot of ppl from very bad wvw game play and over all making wvw more and more toxic.

This IS a problem anet not going to do any thing about it if ppl do not say its a problem. The problem only going to get worst and WILL kill off wvw as a viable game type.

Sure. In the alliance system scenario this can become a problem.

But i doubt that this will happen on a large scale.

Well that the thing alliance kills large scale in favor of smaller. That the point of the system change.

[Zero.3871]

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

Aaaaaaand your point is?

So you are saying that a full zerg with only necros and guardians is better then one with all of the above?

Yes. And the zerg with less of the 2 classes are worst off. Its even worst with the rune/ sigil update pushing the meta more into the bunker meta where necros and guardians are both the bunker AND the counter to that bunker.

This is not right. Gotta have that heavy 1200 power bomb. That's something necro staff cannot provide. Rev/party and at least a couple weavers/squad are needed, or at least wanted. Haven't seen a pure Scourge/FB comp in the last several months, and even then there many SBs and a few revs mixed in. Most guild groups I'm seeing lately are running(or trying to run) FB, Scourge, power, power, SB as main party comp.

Few things scourge is not just a staff using class it very well can do high dmg all be it limented on number of targets with axe as well as getting good aoe dmg from its shade skill. FB effectually cover all other needs for support.

Yes ppl do use other classes to free up scorges and FB to fill there rolls better but you do not need them for classes in them self you need the other classes as pure gear and "wepon attk types" so in a way you DO have 2 classes only comps of scorge and FB and the "other" is not a real class its a filler. I am not one to call pink slime a type of meat but it sure used to hold meat together.

I think we reached a point where both sides will never agree, so the best way to solve it is ingame proff.

Its reset day today so how about we post the squad setup from the reset night.

Maybe i can get a pic from multiple maps.

We are talking in hyperbole-ism for sure but i am one to try to hold to the other side point of logic or will be we like talking to a wall.

The problem is you cant realty play wvw with out these 2 classes but you can play wvw with out all of the other classes its a real problem.

Its not a real problem right now as you cant kick ppl from wvw who do not play the right classes you can kick them from group. The thing is the game wvw is about to become group only aimed in effectually you CAN start to kick ppl from worlds who are not running the right classes. Turning your head when you see 1 or 3 non meta classes in a group as every thing being good is foolish and dooming a lot of ppl from very bad wvw game play and over all making wvw more and more toxic.

This IS a problem anet not going to do any thing about it if ppl do not say its a problem. The problem only going to get worst and WILL kill off wvw as a viable game type.

to be fair. scourge is an only Group fight class. if you roam you will see 30 rangers, 30 mesmers, 30 thiefes, 1 scourge. also its simply not true that the fraction with more FB/scourges easily win. i have seen many FB/Scourge combs that get steamrolled by better combs.

e.g. 10 FB + 15 Scourge + 10 Rev + 5 ele + 7-8 SB + 2-3 mesmer in 50 men zergs. this comb is way better than only FB/Scourge because revs and eles have better range and dmg than scourge. just 1 SB already can decide a whole zergfight with his WoD.

a class that can ONLY GROUPFIGHTS and nearly never seen in roaming (and roaming is also an important part of wvw, even if some People like to hide this fact) is fine with 15 out of 50.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

Aaaaaaand your point is?

So you are saying that a full zerg with only necros and guardians is better then one with all of the above?

Yes. And the zerg with less of the 2 classes are worst off. Its even worst with the rune/ sigil update pushing the meta more into the bunker meta where necros and guardians are both the bunker AND the counter to that bunker.

This is not right. Gotta have that heavy 1200 power bomb. That's something necro staff cannot provide. Rev/party and at least a couple weavers/squad are needed, or at least wanted. Haven't seen a pure Scourge/FB comp in the last several months, and even then there many SBs and a few revs mixed in. Most guild groups I'm seeing lately are running(or trying to run) FB, Scourge, power, power, SB as main party comp.

Few things scourge is not just a staff using class it very well can do high dmg all be it limented on number of targets with axe as well as getting good aoe dmg from its shade skill. FB effectually cover all other needs for support.

Yes ppl do use other classes to free up scorges and FB to fill there rolls better but you do not need them for classes in them self you need the other classes as pure gear and "wepon attk types" so in a way you DO have 2 classes only comps of scorge and FB and the "other" is not a real class its a filler. I am not one to call pink slime a type of meat but it sure used to hold meat together.

I think we reached a point where both sides will never agree, so the best way to solve it is ingame proff.

Its reset day today so how about we post the squad setup from the reset night.

Maybe i can get a pic from multiple maps.

We are talking in hyperbole-ism for sure but i am one to try to hold to the other side point of logic or will be we like talking to a wall.

The problem is you cant realty play wvw with out these 2 classes but you can play wvw with out all of the other classes its a real problem.

Its not a real problem right now as you cant kick ppl from wvw who do not play the right classes you can kick them from group. The thing is the game wvw is about to become group only aimed in effectually you CAN start to kick ppl from worlds who are not running the right classes. Turning your head when you see 1 or 3 non meta classes in a group as every thing being good is foolish and dooming a lot of ppl from very bad wvw game play and over all making wvw more and more toxic.

This IS a problem anet not going to do any thing about it if ppl do not say its a problem. The problem only going to get worst and WILL kill off wvw as a viable game type.

Sure. In the alliance system scenario this can become a problem.

But i doubt that this will happen on a large scale.

Well that the thing alliance kills large scale in favor of smaller. That the point of the system change.No it isnt but thats really not relevant to the thread I think.

The thing with the class reliance in the zerg is... does it ultimately matter what classes we are talking about? Just like high end roaming, high end zerging will always be optimized to a few options. If you "balance" out the scourge, another class will replace it. Same for guard. People pick whats most effective.

Personally, I just see them as the basic foot soldier. Gonna have alot of them in the army. But you're also gonna have specialists that are rarer, but highly dangerous at what they do.

And tbh I'd rather not have those specialists become common. I like being special compared to all those those common fb and scourges grunts.

[Jski.6180]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

Aaaaaaand your point is?

So you are saying that a full zerg with only necros and guardians is better then one with all of the above?

Yes. And the zerg with less of the 2 classes are worst off. Its even worst with the rune/ sigil update pushing the meta more into the bunker meta where necros and guardians are both the bunker AND the counter to that bunker.

This is not right. Gotta have that heavy 1200 power bomb. That's something necro staff cannot provide. Rev/party and at least a couple weavers/squad are needed, or at least wanted. Haven't seen a pure Scourge/FB comp in the last several months, and even then there many SBs and a few revs mixed in. Most guild groups I'm seeing lately are running(or trying to run) FB, Scourge, power, power, SB as main party comp.

Few things scourge is not just a staff using class it very well can do high dmg all be it limented on number of targets with axe as well as getting good aoe dmg from its shade skill. FB effectually cover all other needs for support.

Yes ppl do use other classes to free up scorges and FB to fill there rolls better but you do not need them for classes in them self you need the other classes as pure gear and "wepon attk types" so in a way you DO have 2 classes only comps of scorge and FB and the "other" is not a real class its a filler. I am not one to call pink slime a type of meat but it sure used to hold meat together.

I think we reached a point where both sides will never agree, so the best way to solve it is ingame proff.

Its reset day today so how about we post the squad setup from the reset night.

Maybe i can get a pic from multiple maps.

We are talking in hyperbole-ism for sure but i am one to try to hold to the other side point of logic or will be we like talking to a wall.

The problem is you cant realty play wvw with out these 2 classes but you can play wvw with out all of the other classes its a real problem.

Its not a real problem right now as you cant kick ppl from wvw who do not play the right classes you can kick them from group. The thing is the game wvw is about to become group only aimed in effectually you CAN start to kick ppl from worlds who are not running the right classes. Turning your head when you see 1 or 3 non meta classes in a group as every thing being good is foolish and dooming a lot of ppl from very bad wvw game play and over all making wvw more and more toxic.

This IS a problem anet not going to do any thing about it if ppl do not say its a problem. The problem only going to get worst and WILL kill off wvw as a viable game type.

Sure. In the alliance system scenario this can become a problem.

But i doubt that this will happen on a large scale.

Well that the thing alliance kills large scale in favor of smaller. That the point of the system change.No it isnt but thats really not relevant to the thread I think.

The thing with the class reliance in the zerg is...

does it ultimately matter what classes we are talking about

? Just like high end roaming, high end zerging will always be optimized to a few options. If you "balance" out the scourge, another class will replace it. Same for guard. People pick whats most effective.

Personally, I just see them as the basic foot soldier. Gonna have alot of them in the army. But you're also gonna have specialists that are rarer, but highly dangerous at what they do.

And tbh I'd rather not have those specialists become common. I like being special compared to all those those common fb and scourges grunts.

That very wrong. The new systom is about making groups able to play togeater this gives ppl more power to demand out of other ppl. Yes there will be randoms but offten they will be nothing more then random npc to most major groups.

The chose of these classes is because other classes cant do any of these effects at all or at least on the scale they can. Scorge has the mix of dmg support (10 targets) as well as boon corruption. You find most classes have to chose between support and dmg and the ability to deal with boons but scorge dose not and its doing this in a way that it self support and hits max numbers of targets. If you gave other classes any of these effect ontop of what they have now you would still see scorges but you would also see the other classes as well. You can say the same for FB it is the end all be all stab support and it is the ONLY real stab support in the game ontop of that. 1 stack of stab dose not cut it for any thing and in no way is viable for any type of self or group support. If you gave other classe some stab support (more then just 1 stack) you would see other classes fill in rolls of FB but not comply push it out of the meta.

The best example is the core classes of gurd and necro there where very much meta to the game but they only just generated effects needed for wvw so not every one played as these 2 classes and there was very much room for lesser boons support / healing support as well as the counters to such support. Once FB and scorge was added to the game it comply tipped balancing of how ppl played the game and was become needed to have a viable group in wvw. FB and scorge has only made the game far worst then made it better and it would be better on every one even the players of these classes if they where never added in.

That the problem right now only a few classes have compel use of much needed effects and all other classes dont. If you do nothing to bring other classes some what to the level of these 2 classes your simply going to kick ppl from playing with groups in wvw altogether. This is all on Anet both balancing and borderline foolishness of how groups work and how control of ppl with in thoughts groups work.

[enkidu.5937]

@"Jski.6180" said:The problem is you cant realty play wvw with out these 2 classes but you can play wvw with out all of the other classes its a real problem.

Its not a real problem right now as you cant kick ppl from wvw who do not play the right classes you can kick them from group. The thing is the game wvw is about to become group only aimed in effectually you CAN start to kick ppl from worlds who are not running the right classes. Turning your head when you see 1 or 3 non meta classes in a group as every thing being good is foolish and dooming a lot of ppl from very bad wvw game play and over all making wvw more and more toxic.

This IS a problem anet not going to do any thing about it if ppl do not say its a problem. The problem only going to get worst and WILL kill off wvw as a viable game type.Honestly, I won't expect much differences. Atm, meta-only ppl cannot kick casuals, except from the squad, that's true. But they already can make a lot of casuals leave the zerg / map / WvW by throwing constant toxicity at them.

Often, the result is, that the meta-onlies also ruin their own game experience, as well, because casuals that were kicked or offended refuse to scout / flip camps / bloodlust etc. And without those casuals, also the size of the zerg often drops to 30ish. Battles are then lost due to the sheer lack in numbers, and enemies digging in to T3 structures, that would normally have held at low tier by casual roamers or K-trains. Nonetheless, those commanders continue to claim, that zerg meta is the only way to win.

With the introduction of alliances, it will only become easier for them, to keep their playground clear. If a meta-only fight alliance lacks in the open field scout / camp flip / bloodlust / map coverage department, Anet will help them out with a second alliance, that fills this gap, and a pocket full of random players. That's true, but those meta-onlies will still be toxic to their linked teammates, and the outcome will be the same as now, I guess.

We will still have ppl, that only have fun if everyone is playing "their" meta, that they claim to be the only way to go, because "WvW is competitive" (even if it's not, hello server linking), "meta wins" (even though one can see, that meta-fixation often leads to a lack in numbers, and consequently defeats), "casuals are not willing to compromise", "non-meta builds are always bad for the zerg", "switching to a meta-build is always good for the zerg" etc. . . And it just turned out, that they are also not playing for the win, in the first place, but for their own definition of fun.

Fortunatelly, this is a minority. Most commanders, that I know are compromising a lot (* EDIT: not sure about the correct wording: I mean "doing trade-offs") , are realizing, that in most situation manpower is an important factor, and that casuals are a precious "ressource" these days, if you want to win fights and match-up's. I hope, that alliances and randoms will be allowed to create a block list "Don't want to be linked to alliance XY." :)

[Jski.6180]

@enkidu.5937 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:The problem is you cant realty play wvw with out these 2 classes but you can play wvw with out all of the other classes its a real problem.

Its not a real problem right now as you cant kick ppl from wvw who do not play the right classes you can kick them from group. The thing is the game wvw is about to become group only aimed in effectually you CAN start to kick ppl from worlds who are not running the right classes. Turning your head when you see 1 or 3 non meta classes in a group as every thing being good is foolish and dooming a lot of ppl from very bad wvw game play and over all making wvw more and more toxic.

This IS a problem anet not going to do any thing about it if ppl do not say its a problem. The problem only going to get worst and WILL kill off wvw as a viable game type.Honestly, I won't expect much differences. Atm, meta-only ppl cannot kick casuals, except from the squad, that's true. But they already can make a lot of casuals leave the zerg / map / WvW by throwing constant toxicity at them.

Often, the result is, that the meta-onlies also ruin their own game experience, as well, because casuals that were kicked or offended refuse to scout / flip camps / bloodlust etc. And without those casuals, also the size of the zerg often drops to 30ish. Battles are then lost due to the sheer lack in numbers, and enemies digging in to T3 structures, that would normally have held at low tier by casual roamers or K-trains. Nonetheless, those commanders continue to claim, that zerg meta is the only way to win.

With the introduction of alliances, it will only become easier for them, to keep their playground clear. If a meta-only fight alliance lacks in the open field scout / camp flip / bloodlust / map coverage department, Anet will help them out with a second alliance, that fills this gap, and a pocket full of random players. That's true, but those meta-onlies will still be toxic to their linked teammates, and the outcome will be the same as now, I guess.

We will still have ppl, that only have fun if everyone is playing "their" meta, that they claim to be the only way to go, because "WvW is competitive" (even if it's not, hello server linking), "meta wins" (even though one can see, that meta-fixation often leads to a lack in numbers, and consequently defeats), "casuals are not willing to compromise", "non-meta builds are always bad for the zerg", "switching to a meta-build is always good for the zerg" etc. . . And it just turned out, that they, are also not playing for the win, in the first place, but for their own definition of fun.

Fortunatelly, this is a minority. Most commanders, that I know are compromising a lot, are realizing, that in most situation manpower is an important factor, and that casuals are a precious "ressource" these days, if you want to win fights and match-up's. I hope, that alliances and randoms will be allowed to create a block list "Don't want to be linked to alliance XY." :)

That sounds nice finding your way as a non meta player (out side of these 2 classes) but it dose not last and will only lead to pain and ultimate quitting of gw2 and the effectually player base of wvw over all. That why these things MUST be balanced to where we cant have 2 classes coving every thing needed for a group the effects must be spread out. (Truth be told anet game director needs to look at the devs who made these classes and REMOVE them from these classes over all and put them some where else as they cant be bothered with balanced skills over all to the game).

Its going to get realty bad fast and you will see massive population falls. You already seen it with each add on to the "dev liked" classes but soon they will be no hiding from the oppression of the best.