Reveal on siege throw

[Straegen.2938]

There needs to be a long mark and reveal every time siege is thrown. Currently thieves can perma-stealth, drop junk siege and effectly lock up a waypoint indefinitely with almost no counter. Don't say the new crappy marking traps or players with reveal. Both are almost pointless and shouldn't require a mass of supply and players to kill one player that returns in 30s even if they are killed.

[Strider Pj.2193]

There is enough marks and reveals. Grab the trick and paint them.

[Straegen.2938]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:There is enough marks and reveals. Grab the trick and paint them.

A player can sit on a back door dropping basic ACs from range and nobody can catch them. If a bunch of players gather, they just move to another door.

AND as I noted, killing the offender means they are back in 30s.

[Jeknar.6184]

@Straegen.2938 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:There is enough marks and reveals. Grab the trick and paint them.

A player can sit on a back door dropping basic ACs from range and nobody can catch them. If a bunch of players gather, they just move to another door.

AND as I noted, killing the offender means they are back in 30s.

Then how revealing them on siege throw will help your cause, if they will be back after 30s if they die?

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Soooooo you see someone invisible throw siege on the waypoint and (because you know at this point where he is) doesn’t bomb the kitten out of the area?

What?

[Gop.8713]

If this is how ppl want to spend their time, it's their business and costs you as a scout very little. But the inability to drop siege without being marked would be catastrophic to wvw gameplay . . .

[apharma.3741]

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Soooooo you see someone invisible throw siege on the waypoint and (because you know at this point where he is) doesn’t bomb the kitten out of the area?

What?

Yeah this is what has me confused, also why not destroy the siege, it's really weak when placed or is the complaint an enemy is siege capping an area preventing the attackers from placing siege?

[DemonSeed.3528]

When they throw the siege they can do it from stealth without revealing - generally you can do it from areas where the enemy won't be able to pinpoint where you are to throw target painter or trap, but that depends on the creativeness of person. I'm guessing you're speaking about the one throwing siege at the double gates at red keep? I saw someone throwing siege there for a while to trigger the guards.

[bq pd.2148]

@Straegen.2938 said:There needs to be a long mark and reveal every time siege is thrown. Currently thieves can perma-stealth, drop junk siege and effectly lock up a waypoint indefinitely with almost no counter. Don't say the new crappy marking traps or players with reveal. Both are almost pointless and shouldn't require a mass of supply and players to kill one player that returns in 30s even if they are killed.

could aswell just attack the gate/guard and instant restealth.marking on thrwon siege just shows the opponent everytime someone is going to build siege to attack a structure of theirs, then we can get rid of sentries and watchtowers alltogether as their marks would just be distracting.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Soooooo you see someone invisible throw siege on the waypoint and (because you know at this point where he is) doesn’t bomb the kitten out of the area?

What?

Agreed... not a really good reason to nerf stealth more. There may be other reasons. This isn’t one of them.

[Caedmon.6798]

@Straegen.2938 said:There needs to be a long mark and reveal every time siege is thrown. Currently thieves can perma-stealth, drop junk siege and effectly lock up a waypoint indefinitely with almost no counter. Don't say the new crappy marking traps or players with reveal. Both are almost pointless and shouldn't require a mass of supply and players to kill one player that returns in 30s even if they are killed.

I do the same on my warr,whats the point ? Anyone can cus wp's arent being scouted 24/7 either and even when on a non stealth class it aint exactly hard to hide a out of view a bit.

[Babylonn.5027]

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Straegen.2938 said:There needs to be a long mark and reveal every time siege is thrown. Currently thieves can perma-stealth, drop junk siege and effectly lock up a waypoint indefinitely with almost no counter. Don't say the new crappy marking traps or players with reveal. Both are almost pointless and shouldn't require a mass of supply and players to kill one player that returns in 30s even if they are killed.

I do the same on my warr,whats the point ? Anyone can cus wp's arent being scouted 24/7 either and even when on a non stealth class it aint exactly hard to hide a out of view a bit.

What throwing siege to WP (waypoint) even means and what are benefits or bad things about that?

[Shining One.1635]

I'm all for making contesting require more effort, but not by Marking upon siege deployment.

[Shroud.2307]

Did the [Pink] Thief get to you?

[Strawberry Specter.4870]

I think the underlying issue here is that unbuilt siege should not be contesting objectives in the first place. For the methods you can use to contest structures, throwing siege is far by the easiest, although there's some other relatively low risk methods (eg hitting archers on keep walls with Shortbow on thief)

The siege throw actually has a decent range and there are multiple spots where you can throw from, so it's not actually trivial to isolate where the player is if they are throwing from stealth. Also, a player who wants to just lock up an enemy WP can run a build with high amounts of mobility so they can just run away if they get revealed and come back in ~3 minutes to recontest. In addition, if you send 10+ players to try and kill 1 player hitting a keep, those 10 players are not available for other objectives or fights.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Did the [Pink] Thief get to you?

Surprisingly I am currently linked on the same server as them ATM and I have not seen them doing what they usually do when I'm on their opposing server. Maybe they have a certain hatred for some servers or something but I don't doubt that they are still somewhat doing it when I'm not watching. I keep an open eye though. If you guys see them doing it just let me know so I can record.As for the siege, maybe something will or won't be done, I don't think it's a priority issue for them to look at in the bigger picture of things that we have. It's only a select minor amount of ppl doing it per matchup but if it gets out of hand then maybe they will look at it. I think the funny one is where they contest keeps that don't even have waypoints.

[Shroud.2307]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Did the [Pink] Thief get to you?

Surprisingly I am currently linked on the same server as them ATM and I have not seen them doing what they usually do when I'm on their opposing server. Maybe they have a certain hatred for some servers or something but I don't doubt that they are still somewhat doing it when I'm not watching. I keep an open eye though. If you guys see them doing it just let me know so I can record.As for the siege, maybe something will or won't be done, I don't think it's a priority issue for them to look at in the bigger picture of things that we have. It's only a select minor amount of ppl doing it per matchup but if it gets out of hand then maybe they will look at it. I think the funny one is where they contest keeps that don't even have waypoints.

Why would you want to record? I don't think he's hacking or exploiting or anything of the sort. He's just an extremely dedicated troll when he feels like it. Some people enjoy being a pest more than others, sometimes to the point they'll keep at it for literal hours.

Unless you meant so you could record him doing the siege throwing strategy, in which case I misunderstood. Because he does do that quite a lot.

[DemonSeed.3528]

Well my experience being on the opposite server says otherwise. Like going through keep walls and going underground etc. Many people will be able to vouch for stuff like that - it's not just me. Have you ever seen them run around in endless dancing choya tonic and not being able to be cc'ed by ~10ppl and going inside and out of an enemy keep at will? That's what I was referring as to what they have done in the past. In any case, that is what I thought you meant when you brought up the pink thief because I thought they were up to their old antics again, and not the run of the mill trolling with siege like described above. Anyway I had just made an assumption because that person has a shady background from before. Maybe he is just trolling the normal way now with siege, no idea.

[Shroud.2307]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:Well my experience being on the opposite server says otherwise. Like going through keep walls and going underground etc. Many people will be able to vouch for stuff like that - it's not just me. Have you ever seen them run around in endless dancing choya tonic and not being able to be cc'ed by ~10ppl and going inside and out of an enemy keep at will? That's what I was referring as to what they have done in the past. In any case, that is what I thought you meant when you brought up the pink thief because I thought they were up to their old antics again, and not the run of the mill trolling with siege like described above. Anyway I had just made an assumption because that person has a shady background from before. Maybe he is just trolling the normal way now with siege, no idea.

Ah, I didn't know that. Though I have seen him rolling around in the Choya tonic a lot.

All I really know is that who ever he is, he's one of the most dedicated pacifist trolls I've ever seen. I've encountered lots of people who enjoy being chased around the map and tapping keeps but this guy is in a league of his own, lol.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Ah, I didn't know that. Though I have seen him rolling around in the Choya tonic a lot.

All I really know is that who ever he is, he's one of the most dedicated pacifist trolls I've ever seen. I've encountered lots of people who enjoy being chased around the map and tapping keeps but this guy is in a league of his own, lol.

You are definitely correct there lol, they are dedicated for sure. I'd say they would be top 15 in that category lmao. I can't begin to understand their minds though of wanting to do it for hours on end, even when no one will chase them after a while. I think even if there were something done about stealth and siege not contesting a wp, they will just find another way - I mean blue keep always has the grub that can even keep bravost or blue keep contested. The vet skelk at wild creek does it sometimes too. This kind of thing seems only rampant on eb, they probably do it on other borders but no one cared as much as on eb.

[Shroud.2307]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Ah, I didn't know that. Though I have seen him rolling around in the Choya tonic a lot.

All I really know is that who ever he is, he's one of the most dedicated pacifist trolls I've ever seen. I've encountered lots of people who enjoy being chased around the map and tapping keeps but this guy is in a league of his own, lol.

You are definitely correct there lol, they are dedicated for sure. I'd say they would be top 15 in that category lmao. I can't begin to understand their minds though of wanting to do it for hours on end, even when no one will chase them after a while. I think even if there were something done about stealth and siege not contesting a wp, they will just find another way - I mean blue keep always has the grub that can even keep bravost or blue keep contested. The vet skelk at wild creek does it sometimes too. This kind of thing seems only rampant on eb, they probably do it on other borders but no one cared as much as on eb.

I remember this one guy years ago, pre-HoT, when I was on Desolation EU. Some Warrior from SFR in a guild called "Kill Me Or I Tap Your [KEEP]" was probably the only player I've ever seen that strictly spent 100% of his time tapping keeps.

I agree though, I don't understand their logic either. I get bored of doing it after 10 minutes. But hey, to each their own I guess.

[DemonSeed.3528]

I think that guild is still around doing same stuff btw, I saw one in past two three months I think with that same tag doing it but I'm not sure if the guild name was the same but it was something equally obnoxious.

[Straegen.2938]

@Jeknar.6184 said:Then how revealing them on siege throw will help your cause, if they will be back after 30s if they die?

At least when they reveal themselves attacking a guard a group has a chance to blow them up as they are revealed for at least 1s and it is easier to target them with the new throwable mark. The current siege throwing contesting mechanic has practically no counter. A player can throw siege from a long way out, never leave stealth, contest a WP for hours with very little effort. It is every bit as stupid as the old perma-stealth trapper thief builds.

[Shagaliscious.6281]

I know it doesn't seem like a useful change, but I agree. If you drop a piece of siege and a NPC attacks it, it should reveal you, perhaps not like being marked or whatnot, but it is ridiculous that you can contest a keep and theoretically be stealthed the entire time. You cannot contest a keep constantly while maintaining stealth without the throwing siege trick. Dropping a trap reveals you, no reason why dropping siege shouldn't do the same.

As for the pink thief, I have no doubt he hacks, i've seen him in many tonics using the same "can't catch me" antics. I have seen him through the outer keep walls in EBG without any outer walls being down, he most certainly hacks.