Staff needs some love

[Methuselah.4376]

@Vlad Morbius.1759 said:

@"Methuselah.4376" said:> I don't know. I know the range is superior to axe and staff has more utility use, but when I tried using it with my power Reaper it felt so inferior to Axe/Focus in respect to damage. I prefer staff on my condi builds, where I can "burst" the condis from staff and then switch to scepter/torch or /dagger.

This, we are basically ham-stringed into having to use axe/focus and limit our range attack to 900 rather than the staff 1200 because the overall life force gain and damage benefits are far superior to staff. It needs to be reworked or they need to increase the range of axe to 1200 compensate for the loss of range from a useless staff damage output, it's as simple as that.

Problem is that axe is a non-projectile ranged weapon. So they will not increase its range. I prefer it staying as it is than getting it to 1200 and having it as a projectile

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

@Methuselah.4376 said:> Problem is that axe is a non-projectile ranged weapon. So they will not increase its range. I prefer it staying as it is than getting it to 1200 and having it as a projectile

Then they need to greatly improve staff as has been said by many in this thread. It is absurdly under powered and slow as molasses in -40 compared to all other staffs in game today.

[Anchoku.8142]

Axe used to be the weakest MH weapon in Necro's arsenal and staff was pretty much mandatory in all PvP builds. It is amazing how opinion can change so much.

Power creep may mean Arenanet can undo the old nerfs to Mark of Blood's bleeds and Putrid Mark's condition transfer bit I still would like 100% finisher on AA and a few seconds shaved from Reaper's Mark.

[jalmari.3906]

You got to be kidding, unblockable huge red circles which give LF and piercing projectile finisher plus annoying cc hahhah. Need buff? No. More like most op weapon necro has utility wise.

[Obtena.7952]

@Vlad Morbius.1759 said:

@Methuselah.4376 said:> Problem is that axe is a non-projectile ranged weapon. So they will not increase its range. I prefer it staying as it is than getting it to 1200 and having it as a projectile

Then they need to greatly improve staff as has been said by many in this thread. It is absurdly under powered and slow as molasses in -40 compared to all other staffs in game today.

i think we need to be careful ... Axe being one thing isn't a reason to make Staff something else. The staff buff argument needs to stand on it's own, but still not tread on the capabilities other weapons are identified as.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

I've had to shift away from staff to axe as a power Reaper simply because it generates LF much easier and far quicker and allows me to do damage. I'm frankly tired of having to continuously build new ascended weapons every time some Dev has a brain fart and decides to go off in a different direction forcing us to bleed resources just to keep the character viable. Staff needs work badly and has for quite some time especially considering it is the only full range weapon we have and it's damage pales in comparison to all other 1200 range weapons in the game.

[Umbramare.9156]

They need to rework staff completly and remove marks. They are boring and brainless.

I wish Staff could become a viable dps option for necros in raids.

[Obtena.7952]

@Vlad Morbius.1759 said:I've had to shift away from staff to axe as a power Reaper simply because it generates LF much easier and far quicker and allows me to do damage. I'm frankly tired of having to continuously build new ascended weapons every time some Dev has a brain fart and decides to go off in a different direction forcing us to bleed resources just to keep the character viable. Staff needs work badly and has for quite some time especially considering it is the only full range weapon we have and it's damage pales in comparison to all other 1200 range weapons in the game.

That thinking isn't inline with how MMO's work ... the potential to change gear happens anytime a game mechanic or skill changes. It's not something to complain about, it's something to expect to happen. It's also something that you should expect if you insist on playing the best 'thing' for the current state of the game, especially since we know Anet isn't targeting performance equivalence on builds/weapons, etc... . Staff damage buff is a hard sell ... it's an AOE spammer.

[Scarran.9845]

@Obtena.7952 said:Anet isn't targeting performance equivalence on builds/weapons, etc... . Staff damage buff is a hard sell ... it's an AOE spammer.

But they do take into consideration general performance of a weapon and will buff it if it is deemed to be under-performing.

For me the Staff isn't cutting it and with all the reductions done to it previously and the power creep that has gone on after each x-pac, I feel it needs buffing.

[Obtena.7952]

@Scarran.9845 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Anet isn't targeting performance equivalence on builds/weapons, etc... . Staff damage buff is a hard sell ... it's an AOE spammer.

But they do take into consideration general performance of a weapon and will buff it if it is deemed to be under-performing.

For me the Staff isn't cutting it and with all the reductions done to it previously and the power creep that has gone on after each x-pac, I feel it needs buffing.

Yeah, no one is arguing it shouldn't but if I look at what staff theme is, it's not for dishing out the damage (or if Anet is smart, it shouldn't be), so to compare it to something that is obviously intended to be damage focused doesn't make much sense. The proposals and ideas to buff staff have to be based on it's theme, not on a comparison of what other weapons do.

[killfil.3472]

Personally, I feel like the staff could be a more physical-ish weapon. What I mean is, we get a ghostly black scythe blade when we use abilities. What if we used said blade?Example : The Reaper's Mark could be replace by a lateral swing (Similar the a mesmer's greatsword Illusianary wave) that send a wave that deals damage and applies fear to targets hit!As for rework ideas : Chillblains could be replaced by a short range blink that leave a short-lasting chill field at the area of departure, and creates a poison blast at the area of arrival!Mark of blood could be replaced by a channeled ability that steals health from enemies in a selected area. However, unlike the dagger's life leech, it would deal much less damage to the enemies hit and apply either bleeding or torment on each pulse! The healing could be something like 33% of the healing the dagger's life leach gives you, but it would stack depending on the number of enemies hit!As for putrid mark... I am unsure of what I would do...

EDIT: The Auto-attack could be a swing with the scythe blade that deals damage in a wide arc and generates Life force, something like the Guardian's staff AA, but would deal less damage then the current AA and maybe generate 1.5% per target hit? It would make for a proper cleaving weapon for those who run the Core specialization! (Not everyone bought the expansion)

[Subli.8217]

Full rework or go home.Just look at ele staff skillset, I want magic spells too, not circle paint simulator

[Avigrus.2871]

@Sublimatio.6981 said:Full rework or go home.Just look at ele staff skillset, I want magic spells too, not circle paint simulator

LMAO.

[Scarran.9845]

@"Obtena.7952" said:The proposals and ideas to buff staff have to be based on it's theme, not on a comparison of what other weapons do.

I understand where you are coming from but when you look as recently as the November patch notes the devs stated for ele sword changes "The weaver's sword has been underperforming a bit when compared to several of the core elementalist weapons".

This has been the case for other weapon changes too like in June with warrior's torch and rifle changes which they stated was to make them a more competitive option. So they have been known to take into consideration what other weapons do when applying changes. Which is why for me I suggested earlier in this thread that I would prefer a full rework, so that it is either made into a viable utility weapon or altered to be a damage dealing weapon, depending on how the developers want it to perform.

Right now the only thing the staff does reliably well is to annoy people with the auto attack sound effect.

[Derigar.7810]

@Methuselah.4376 said:

@Vitali.5039 said:

@Methuselah.4376 said:If Marks pulse, even just twice, it would already be a big improvement. AA should be a non-projectile attack like the rest of the necro range weapons.

I don't think it could be a good idea as a rework..

OK, I once proposed these changes on the old forums:

1. Necrotic Grasp – faster casting and projectile travel speed. 50% chance blast finisher.
2. Mark of Blood – 4 stacks of bleed for 10s, regen for 10s (5s CD)
3. Chilblains – 5 stacks of poison for 8 s and chill for 6 seconds (10s CD)
4. Putrid Mark – Blast Finisher. Transfer all your conditions into the mark (their timers will be suspended). All “stored” conditions will be transferred to each target that triggers the mark. (15s CD)
5. Reaper’s Mark – Fear for 2 seconds. (20s CD)Souls Marks will change as following: Marks are unblockable, regenerate lifeforce per target struck and gain an additional effect.-Mark of Blood: Steal health from each target hit-Chilblains: targets are crippled for 10s-Putrid Mark: corrupt 2 boons-Reaper’s Mark: this mark also inflicts 5 stacks of Torment for 7 seconds

Are you insane? That would make staff the strongest WvW and PvP weapon in the entire game, by a LONG shot. Staff only needs a bit more condi's on staff 2 and 3, & stack of torment on staff 5 and a better auto attack. That's literally it.

[Avigrus.2871]

@Derigar.7810 said:

@Methuselah.4376 said:

@Vitali.5039 said:

@Methuselah.4376 said:If Marks pulse, even just twice, it would already be a big improvement. AA should be a non-projectile attack like the rest of the necro range weapons.

I don't think it could be a good idea as a rework..

OK, I once proposed these changes on the old forums:

1. Necrotic Grasp – faster casting and projectile travel speed. 50% chance blast finisher.
2. Mark of Blood – 4 stacks of bleed for 10s, regen for 10s (5s CD)
3. Chilblains – 5 stacks of poison for 8 s and chill for 6 seconds (10s CD)
4. Putrid Mark – Blast Finisher. Transfer all your conditions into the mark (their timers will be suspended). All “stored” conditions will be transferred to each target that triggers the mark. (15s CD)
5. Reaper’s Mark – Fear for 2 seconds. (20s CD)Souls Marks will change as following: Marks are unblockable, regenerate lifeforce per target struck and gain an additional effect.-Mark of Blood: Steal health from each target hit-Chilblains: targets are crippled for 10s-Putrid Mark: corrupt 2 boons-Reaper’s Mark: this mark also inflicts 5 stacks of Torment for 7 seconds

Are you insane? That would make staff the strongest WvW and PvP weapon in the entire game, by a LONG shot. Staff only needs a bit more condi's on staff 2 and 3, & stack of torment on staff 5 and a better auto attack. That's literally it.

Yeah, that would be overkill - we certainly don't need the added corruption on Putrid Mark - well maybe base Necro or Reaper does, but you could not add this in with Scourge in its current iteration.

Staff 1 could use some love, and maybe an extra 2 bleeds on staff 2.

[X T D.6458]

I truly hate Necro staff. It is such an underwhelming and unfortunately necessary weapon for wvw, which is the only thing I use my Necro for. It is slow, has high cooldowns, the auto attack doesn't synergize properly with the other skills, the marks don't work on siege or downed players which really sucks in WvW. I always hope they will completely rework it.

[Obtena.7952]

@Scarran.9845 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:The proposals and ideas to buff staff have to be based on it's theme, not on a comparison of what other weapons do.

I understand where you are coming from but when you look as recently as the November patch notes the devs stated for ele sword changes "The weaver's sword has been underperforming a bit when compared to several of the core elementalist weapons".

This has been the case for other weapon changes too like in June with warrior's torch and rifle changes which they stated was to make them a more competitive option. So they have been known to take into consideration what other weapons do when applying changes. Which is why for me I suggested earlier in this thread that I would prefer a full rework, so that it is either made into a viable utility weapon or altered to be a damage dealing weapon, depending on how the developers want it to perform.

Right now the only thing the staff does reliably well is to annoy people with the auto attack sound effect.

The problem is that it's not really clear what a 'good performing' staff on Necro actually is; that statement from Anet is awfully vague. I do think that if you take an objective look at what Staff does, because it's not really a DPS-focused weapon, even if it is underperforming, it's hard to think that will be remedied with a DPS buff.

[X T D.6458]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Scarran.9845 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:The proposals and ideas to buff staff have to be based on it's theme, not on a comparison of what other weapons do.

I understand where you are coming from but when you look as recently as the November patch notes the devs stated for ele sword changes "The weaver's sword has been underperforming a bit when compared to several of the core elementalist weapons".

This has been the case for other weapon changes too like in June with warrior's torch and rifle changes which they stated was to make them a more competitive option. So they have been known to take into consideration what other weapons do when applying changes. Which is why for me I suggested earlier in this thread that I would prefer a full rework, so that it is either made into a viable utility weapon or altered to be a damage dealing weapon, depending on how the developers want it to perform.

Right now the only thing the staff does reliably well is to annoy people with the auto attack sound effect.

The problem is that it's not really clear what a 'good performing' staff on Necro actually is; that statement from Anet is awfully vague. I do think that if you take an objective look at what Staff does, because it's not really a DPS-focused weapon, even if it is underperforming, it's hard to think that will be remedied with a DPS buff.

The problem for me is the lack of consistency with the staff. The auto attack is slow and the damage is power based, the marks inflict conditions and trigger instantly on targets :/. This is also the only weapon in game where 4/5 skills cant be used on downed players, siege weapons, or any destructible objects.

[Gustaff.6581]

hmmmm, staff needs better animations.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Its our 1200 weapon so it needs extra sauce. Pvp wise its dead in the water.

[Riba.3271]

Staff is used a lot, it doesn't need a rework. They should touch warhorn and main hand dagger more.

They could rework lot of weapons from multiple classes tho, like warrior off hand sword and axe. Ranger could use useful weapon for group fights etc.

Id like them to introduce/rework new weapons for classes between expansions. Like 1 rework + 1 new weapon every month. They have definitely gotten better at weapon making and new weapons always provide new gameplay. Like the guardian shield rework was amazing whereas torch and focus are still kinda lackluster for guardian.

[Swagg.9236]

@Threather.9354 said:Staff is used a lot, it doesn't need a rework. They should touch warhorn and main hand dagger more.

They could rework lot of weapons from multiple classes tho, like warrior off hand sword and axe. Ranger could use useful weapon for group fights etc.

Id like them to introduce/rework new weapons for classes between expansions. Like 1 rework + 1 new weapon every month. They have definitely gotten better at weapon making and new weapons always provide new gameplay. Like the guardian shield rework was amazing whereas torch and focus are still kinda lackluster for guardian.

Staff is used a lot solely because of a lazy, braindead trait along with the fact that it's impossible to miss staff circles. That doesn't mean that it's a well-made weapon.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Plus, Warhorn is probably our best weapon. It's attractive on all builds.

[Obtena.7952]

@X T D.6458 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Scarran.9845 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:The proposals and ideas to buff staff have to be based on it's theme, not on a comparison of what other weapons do.

I understand where you are coming from but when you look as recently as the November patch notes the devs stated for ele sword changes "The weaver's sword has been underperforming a bit when compared to several of the core elementalist weapons".

This has been the case for other weapon changes too like in June with warrior's torch and rifle changes which they stated was to make them a more competitive option. So they have been known to take into consideration what other weapons do when applying changes. Which is why for me I suggested earlier in this thread that I would prefer a full rework, so that it is either made into a viable utility weapon or altered to be a damage dealing weapon, depending on how the developers want it to perform.

Right now the only thing the staff does reliably well is to annoy people with the auto attack sound effect.

The problem is that it's not really clear what a 'good performing' staff on Necro actually is; that statement from Anet is awfully vague. I do think that if you take an objective look at what Staff does, because it's not really a DPS-focused weapon, even if it is underperforming, it's hard to think that will be remedied with a DPS buff.

The problem for me is the lack of consistency with the staff. The auto attack is slow and the damage is power based, the marks inflict conditions and trigger instantly on targets :/. This is also the only weapon in game where 4/5 skills cant be used on downed players, siege weapons, or any destructible objects.

It's very dangerous to come to the conclusion something is a problem if you don't know what it's original intention is and are using other comparisons to make those conclusions.

Also, marks inflicting conditions and triggering on targets on a power weapon doesn't actually sound that bad to me ... there are lots of instances where power weapons trigger conditions.