Staff needs some love

[Lahmia.2193]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:You gotta remember, Anet isn't going to want to put massive amounts of resources into something they don't think is worthwhile. Completely revamping staff would isn't likely be a worthwhile venture in their eyes, given how much effort it would take and how, quite frankly, it isn't really needed.General buffs like 100% projectile or adding a boon corrupt to chillblains are a better way to go.

Then again, you dont know what they think is worthwile. We got a complete Plague rework and a complete Lich Form rework altough both of them could be considered "not really needed" as well. Lich Form had its niche use in PvP and WvW (pre nerf also in PvE) and Plague had its use in WvW and PvP.

They would need quite a lot of "small" changes like projectile finisher to make the weapon fit a distinct role (other than WvW tagging) with a more interesting kit.

That is true, I don't know what they would think. I can only guess. But Staff is a pretty well used weapon however. Plague and Lich Form were both very niche as you said. Its pretty obvious why they'd change the elites but not staff.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I would be happy if the only thing they changed was staff 2 doing good power damage, and possibly 5 doing a 2sec fear instead of 1.

[Lobo.1296]

Staff has always been in a weird spot. Sort of a power weapon, sort of a condition weapon, not really good at either. With the recent buffs to Axe as the power ranged weapon of choice, and scepter being the clear ranged weapon for conditions, it makes sense to move staff into a niche that necro currently lacks, Support. My suggested changes will make staff the go-to weapon for support whether you’re a vanilla necro, or as the Support weapon for Scourges.

1. Necrotic Grasp: 100% projectile finisher and increase attack speed and projectile speed.
2. Mark of Blood: When triggered causes a burst of healing to all allies in the mark. Applies 2 stacks of bleeding, plus another stack on the number of allies healed by the mark. Grants regen to allies. Increase cooldown to 8-10s. (My thoughts on this change was because most Support oriented Necros will be condition based, so this gives them some damage options and rewards them for good application of team support)
3. Chillblains: Chill and poison targets in area. Grants might to allies based on the number of enemies struck by the mark. (Again, leaving the conditions on it makes sense but buffing it to be a group Might giver makes it desirable in group play).
4. Putrid Mark: Unchanged except it gives Resistance to Necro and allies based on the number of enemies hit.
5. Reaper’s Mark: Reduce cooldown to 30s. Inflicts fear and grants allies Stability.

Any one of these changes would be awesome and give us a support oriented weapon.

[Zenith.7301]

@Lobo.1296 said:Staff has always been in a weird spot. Sort of a power weapon, sort of a condition weapon, not really good at either. With the recent buffs to Axe as the power ranged weapon of choice, and scepter being the clear ranged weapon for conditions, it makes sense to move staff into a niche that necro currently lacks, Support. My suggested changes will make staff the go-to weapon for support whether you’re a vanilla necro, or as the Support weapon for Scourges.

1. Necrotic Grasp: 100% projectile finisher and increase attack speed and projectile speed.
2. Mark of Blood: When kitten causes a burst of healing to all allies in the mark. Applies 2 stacks of bleeding, plus another stack on the number of allies healed by the mark. Grants regen to allies. Increase cooldown to 8-10s. (My thoughts on this change was because most Support oriented Necros will be condition based, so this gives them some damage options and rewards them for good application of team support)
3. Chillblains: Chill and poison targets in area. Grants might to allies based on the number of enemies struck by the mark. (Again, leaving the conditions on it makes sense but buffing it to be a group Might giver makes it desirable in group play).
4. Putrid Mark: Unchanged except it gives Resistance to Necro and allies based on the number of enemies hit.
5. Reaper’s Mark: Reduce cooldown to 30s. Inflicts fear and grants allies Stability.

Any one of these changes would be awesome and give us a support oriented weapon.

Projectile finishers are not that useful in PvE for most projectiles, and basically turning marks into reaper shouts isn't helping anyone, as in PvE instances you rarely fight bosses where striking multiple enemies to give scaling boons happens.

The support offered by the staff is anemic and the DPS cost will make it never see use in PvE.

This is also why druid staff is currently not used when a condi druid can heal just fine without the massive DPS loss of a "support" weapon that offers virtually no DPS. Same goes for revenant staff which is also a "support" weapon.

[Silmariena.6205]

I am begging you, can we ask for any reaction in this matter from the persons responsible for this state of our only weapon with 1200 range? next months pass, and the necromancer is in the same hopeless position in pve as before ...

[Crossaber.8934]

Staff don't need conditions on auto, instead it should be buffed in damage, traveling speed and slightly faster RoF.Power reaper needs a ranged weapon serously.

[Lahmia.2193]

I happily have a duplicate of ele staff's fire auto attack on necro staff since I've never liked the way piercing works. Aoe around the target would be much nicer.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

@Crossaber.8934 said:Staff don't need conditions on auto, instead it should be buffed in damage, traveling speed and slightly faster RoF.Power reaper needs a ranged weapon serously.

Bingo from this power reaper. Quicker aa is the obvious.

[Anchoku.8142]

Piercing AA can be good so I hesitate to change anything, there, if it meant giving up piercing.

My one request for staff would be to shave some CD from Reaper's Mark. If it was 25-28 sec base instead of 32, that would greatly improve its utility.

[Obtena.7952]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:You gotta remember, Anet isn't going to want to put massive amounts of resources into something they don't think is worthwhile. Completely revamping staff would isn't likely be a worthwhile venture in their eyes, given how much effort it would take and how, quite frankly, it isn't really needed.General buffs like 100% projectile or adding a boon corrupt to chillblains are a better way to go.

Then again, you dont know what they think is worthwile. We got a complete Plague rework and a complete Lich Form rework altough both of them could be considered "not really needed" as well. Lich Form had its niche use in PvP and WvW (pre nerf also in PvE) and Plague had its use in WvW and PvP.

They would need quite a lot of "small" changes like projectile finisher to make the weapon fit a distinct role (other than WvW tagging) with a more interesting kit.

While we don't know directly, it's not hard to infer that completely reworking a weapon is ALOT less worthwhile than a single skill. You have to think of this as a business; two questions:

1. Why would they rework it?
2. Is it worth the cost to rework it?

I can actually think of many reasons Anet wouldn't rework staff, though I don't think it's out of the question they would look at one or two skills on it and change those.

Frankly, the worst thing about staff is that it's slow and boring. It's also got a problem conceptually with how marks work. The idea of laying out marks isn't unreasonable but it's idea is kind of defeated if laying out those marks NOT on a target may result in no effect. In otherwords, the risk to placing marks off-target isn't worth the reward of the marks themselves. That turns Staff into an AOE spamming weapon ... and those are VERY hard to balance for damage in MMO's (and very boring to play).

Personally, I think power builds benefits most using an Axe for a ranged weapon; I doubt staff could compete with Axe, even if it was buffed in RoF and/or damage.

Based on these two ideas, I think the conditional effects should be significantly buffed, as that's the niche that Staff was obviously intended to fill.

[Justine.6351]

@Crossaber.8934 said:Staff don't need conditions on auto, instead it should be buffed in damage, traveling speed and slightly faster RoF.Power reaper needs a ranged weapon serously.

Be careful what you wish for.Hammer Revs would be replaced by Power Reapers, bringing even more boon corruption on a far tankier build for WvW.

[Scarran.9845]

For me staff needs a full rework and I have always found it puzzling why the class with the worst mobility does not have a decent long ranged weapon to at least hit those we cannot keep up with.

Staff is slow and cumbersome and the marks placed are underwhelming, so for me it needs alot of work done to it.

[Kain Francois.4328]

Staff is good for the most part. It's a WvW/PvP weapon using unblockable marks. Balancing it could be tricky since it's not strong individually, but powerful in groups. I don't think we need to buff it offensively.

Instead, I suggest buffing the support, giving it more appeal to a healing scourge. Slap an aoe heal on first target of autoattack, buff regen duration of staff #2, and possibly add some barrier on staff #3. Staff #5 can have a 1s daze, which functionally won't do much against players since they would already be Feared, but increase its breakbar damage.

[Lanthun.7251]

@Kain Francois.4328 said:Instead, I suggest buffing the support, giving it more appeal to a healing scourge. Slap an aoe heal on first target of autoattack, buff regen duration of staff #2, and possibly add some barrier on staff #3. Staff #5 can have a 1s daze, which functionally won't do much against players since they would already be Feared, but increase its breakbar damage.

I can't see them doing that (while I'd like it) because barrier is a functionality locked behind the PoF specializations, and because staff has been a base weapon since the game came out, don't see that being a reality in this particular case.

The only skills I love is the #4 and #5, because 4 is a condi transfer and 5 because of fear (as I am a fearmancer... yeah they exist still!). My only big complaint about staff is the marks not generating life force without the Soul Marks trait; I feel they should regardless of a trait or not, just like any other weapon we are offered. I don't usually get into discussions like this, but I do enjoy the gameplay with the staff, and if it were to be improved, I'd love it!

[JustDemons.4358]

i see ppl complaining about marks/necro staff beeing boring. i think its very unique and should not get a full rework. give aa 2 stacks of poison, reduce cast time to 1/2 sec and let projectile fly a bit faster. done.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Having to trait for marks to give lf is an absolute joke. Unblockable ok but for lf gain.. come on.

[Martzi.7341]

grab ur pitchforks and torches, but I had an idea back in the old forums, and had years ago a good reception.So, we have specter = ranged condi weap.axe = "RANGED" power weap.GS = meele power weap. (exp. bound)dagger = another meele power weap (should be our meele condi option, but that an other topic)aaaaaaaaand we have our brain dead staff, wich feels like I'm holding Antonina or Sikandar in my hand (and meant in the bad way). A pile of patchworked poo.

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So. Our traits cover every style what the necromancer can wear: monstrous power, a living plague, death itself and so on. And we have blood magic, wich sound as a dreadful vampire... and comes down as a medic trainee in the WW II front lines (another topic again).

There are 3 dedicated healer spec in the game right. Druid, tempest and ventari. All of them is elite spec (yea, grandpa centaur is base line, but it's exp. bound, so count it as e.spec)If we have staff that DEFINITELY needs a rework (moreover, a clear purpose, why cant be the necro, who has a base line dedicated healer with the staff. It would fit the theme of a shady traveler, who takes ones life to give it to others. There is our LF pool, could be used as fuel as it is in scourge, but as a count base to our healing skills in staf (aka. %LF consumed to heal the same amoint +0,1*Healing Power to target/in an area),or other skill could transfer the necros HP to the target, or consume Hp to get LF or vice versa.We have weapon for all of our style and traitline, but not a true weapon to blood magic or being supportive.

[Crossaber.8934]

@Justine.6351 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:Staff don't need conditions on auto, instead it should be buffed in damage, traveling speed and slightly faster RoF.Power reaper needs a ranged weapon serously.

Be careful what you wish for.Hammer Revs would be replaced by Power Reapers, bringing even more boon corruption on a far tankier build for WvW.

Well yes, it is anet we are talking about, and it may probably endup with more condition scourge... their love to classes are very conditional.

[Umut.5471]

Staff auto-attack(Necrotic Grasp) should have more projectile velocity(like 2x faster projectile speed) and attack speed(can't suggest an amount but it needs some buff). Some mobs die even before that projectile reaches its target.Another possible option is lowering the cast time or completely removing it from auto-attack.It is designed to be used with a power necro since it doesn't deal any condition damage, but it doesn't do competitive damage compared to someranged weapon auto-attacks other classes have.Marks should have more physical damage or condition damage, they don't really do significant damage. I just use them to tag mobs or people in WvW.Area control effects like chill and fear are good but that's all. Maybe area-immobilize can be added to fourth skill.

Some buffs are needed at least for PvE aspect if Arenanet is thinking about PvP/WvW balance. Necros are bullied in Raid parties because of the lack of sustained damage.Benchmarks clearly show glass cannon full DPS Reaper and Scourge have really low DPS compared to those classes people prefer in Raids. (Like Mirage, Berserker, Tempest, Soulbeast etc.)

[Kaiser.9873]

@Muchacho.2390 said:I doubt Anet will rework staff when it still is our most used weapon outside of pve.

But i agree the aa should see some improvements.

1200 Range and wall haze are all I use Staff for in WvW. It's really bad at both of those functions, but honestly it's all we really have. AA apply cripple is warranted imo.

[Anchoku.8142]

Why has no one complained about the 20% chance at being a projectile finisher (in this thread), or did I miss it?

That and the long ICD on Reaper's Mark are the only things on my wish list.

[Toll Booth Willie.6723]

pretty much in agreement that staffs auto could be a bit faster with maybe slight dmg buff to the marks themselves.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Staff auto needs to be 100% projectile finisher and the Marks need buffs. Reaper's Mark either needs a shorter cooldown or a longer base Fear duration, for example. About the only skill on staff I feel is fine is Putrid Mark.

[Methuselah.4376]

@"Umut.5471" said:It is designed to be used with a power necro since it doesn't deal any condition damage, but it doesn't do competitive damage compared to some

I don't know. I know the range is superior to axe and staff has more utility use, but when I tried using it with my power Reaper it felt so inferior to Axe/Focus in respect to damage. I prefer staff on my condi builds, where I can "burst" the condis from staff and then switch to scepter/torch or /dagger.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

@"Methuselah.4376" said:> I don't know. I know the range is superior to axe and staff has more utility use, but when I tried using it with my power Reaper it felt so inferior to Axe/Focus in respect to damage. I prefer staff on my condi builds, where I can "burst" the condis from staff and then switch to scepter/torch or /dagger.

This, we are basically ham-stringed into having to use axe/focus and limit our range attack to 900 rather than the staff 1200 because the overall life force gain and damage benefits are far superior to staff. It needs to be reworked or they need to increase the range of axe to 1200 compensate for the loss of range from a useless staff damage output, it's as simple as that.