X T D.6458 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @Blanche Neige.7241 said:I have the feeling that some of the achievements in that map will be hard or even impossible to obtain to new players coming in there.You can make that assumption about any area of the game to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpinDashMaster.5680 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @Obtena.7952 said:@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:@Obtena.7952 said:@Duckota.4769 said:@Obtena.7952 said:I've yet to be at a Istan farming session where you have to do more than just follow the Commander and tag mobs. Istan has NOTHING like the level of complexity being claimed. THAT is why people farm it. Because it's stupid simple and easy loot; it appeals to the lowest common denominator. If most people wanted complex map co-operation, teamwork and social interactions, then most people would be in HoT, not Istan. People farm Istan hard because it's too easy and too rewarding with a zerg. Fixed. Thanks Anet. Ive yet to see you fully read a post that addresses anything you try to fire back with either. Yet here we are. He is stating it takes cooperation to get multiple maps completed. Which is true. In almost every instance where a 2nd pala is done it requires 50 people willing to break off from the "normal" Pala route to do a totally different routing for each squad. Otherwise it won't complete on time. -You- have yet to do anything but follow the commander, but others work hard so thats all you have to do. Nobody is claiming its some top tier raid strategy going into Pala, but if its super easy then come lead us to 7 GHs between Palas. Ill be waiting on ya friend. If you're not at least getting a certain amount of GHs Id argue the meta events aren't even worth my time.Yeah I get it ... but that doesn't make Istan a complex or uniquely socially interactive map like he claims. Co-ordinating multimapping on Istan is about as complex and'uniquely' socially interactive as multimapping and farming Queensdale champs. You've already admitted you haven't seen that type of farm in action though. So you really don't have the place to call someone else's claim, especially mine, since I've commanded Istan for over 8 months, false.I've not admitted that anywhere. I'm just saying that multimapping doesn't make the content in Istan unique or complex in any way. That's a nonsense claim. You can multimap any zone and as we have seen, that's not something Anet really likes and we know how they deal with that. Nothing you can say will change the fact that Istan is some of the most easily completed and significant levels of loot in the game; that in itself is a good enough reason to change it. No, you did, otherwise you wouldn't have asked me to spell out what the "pixie dust" was that made istan farm special. You just double backed on yourself and edited your posts where you asked. At this point I can only consider you as trolling, so I'm not gonna bother with your posts anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X T D.6458 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @Pandemic.7854 said:@X T D.6458 said:@Pandemic.7854 said:@Obtena.7952 said:@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:I think the aspect you're missing here is that when people get bored they quit. More players are far less likely to have that happen in Istan, for the reasons I've already eloquently explained, and that's why they choose it over SW.Note: No one said the loot wasn't important. The fact that the loot is important is why we're here talking about it. What we're trying to talk about is how a farm that attracted people who liked to actively farm instead of passively has entirely collapsed.Well, then I guess people quitting over losing out on easy, excessive loot is less bad than what Istan delivers to players. Otherwise, Anet wouldn't be changing it. Players leaving because bored isn't a reason for Anet to not change the game. Selling Istan like the only place players can actively farm is just incorrect. Players leaving = less revenue generated. Very simple, also not dismissable. No one has voiced an opinion that other meta's should suffer, in fact most support other meta's being reworked, as they have for a long time. If a company cant make a healthy change for their game because they fear some people who farm an event all day might spend some money on gems will quit...well that would just be really bad business wouldn't it?A healthy change generally doesn't involve a portion of the playerbase wanting to quit. If less potential revenue and less happy customers is considered healthy, then yeah it's a healthy change. I don't think many see it that way.After 6 years, if I had a nickel for everytime I've heard about all these players that are going to quit because of X change. Heck I bet if I go to the Istan metas after this change, I will still lag like crazy, there will still be engi turrets everywhere, and I still wont see anything but player nametags on my screen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microsoft Chad.9462 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @Pandemic.7854 said:@Obtena.7952 said:@Pandemic.7854 said:@X T D.6458 said:@Pandemic.7854 said:@Obtena.7952 said:@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:I think the aspect you're missing here is that when people get bored they quit. More players are far less likely to have that happen in Istan, for the reasons I've already eloquently explained, and that's why they choose it over SW.Note: No one said the loot wasn't important. The fact that the loot is important is why we're here talking about it. What we're trying to talk about is how a farm that attracted people who liked to actively farm instead of passively has entirely collapsed.Well, then I guess people quitting over losing out on easy, excessive loot is less bad than what Istan delivers to players. Otherwise, Anet wouldn't be changing it. Players leaving because bored isn't a reason for Anet to not change the game. Selling Istan like the only place players can actively farm is just incorrect. Players leaving = less revenue generated. Very simple, also not dismissable. No one has voiced an opinion that other meta's should suffer, in fact most support other meta's being reworked, as they have for a long time. If a company cant make a healthy change for their game because they fear some people who farm an event all day might spend some money on gems will quit...well that would just be really bad business wouldn't it?A healthy change generally doesn't involve a portion of the playerbase wanting to quit.Sure it can. it's irrelevant how players see it ... Anet changing the game isn't decided by polling players to see who can speculate the best. Players leave. If the game changes and some players leave, then so be it, good or bad change. Sustainable business models generally involve caring what your customers (players) think, irrational ones do not, yes.Yup, and there is no evidence to suggest Anet doesn't do that; no business is going to please all their customers all the time. Changing how business is done isn't a choice taken lightly ... but still, businesses do it. Fearmongering isn't going to get you far here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torqbow.2839 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 "And yeah just in case I didn't make this clear enough on behalf of the silent majority: There's a lot of us who rely on that map for having something common we can all do together, that doesn't have the barrier-to-entry stigma that raids and fractals have. People could literally come as they are, have fun, socialize, and fill their pockets while doing it. It was an everybody-wins thing, where the more we worked together, the more everyone won."This was kind of the point I was going to make but he said it better. I came back to the game a month ago. Randomly decided to try Istan farming and to my surprise, I had a lot of fun doing it. Not so much because of the content but the little tribal community involved with it. And yes, it was a great way for me to farm materials in a CONSISTENT manner for crafting Ascended Sets and Legendaries. I think there is something to be said for that as well, I have a very hard time enjoying crafting and gathering in this game because I feel like the materials for such activities are very scarce when going about getting them yourself. The far more efficient method is to farm gold and purchase them on the market place. Why that is, well that is another discussion for another time. But Ive quit the game over it a few times in the past due to not being able to farm ascended sets on my own but rather to farm SW for gold or take advantage of TP manipulation, neither of those two were enjoyable. So I would like to know, what is going to be done to balance this, Am I forced to run SW again? Do I have to run a bunch of metas I don't want to run? I love HoT metas but to be honest, Im a bit sick of them after 3-4 years. I do enjoy Fractals, but they are only profitable for dailies. Istan was fun, and that was do to it being fast paced, more complex than most people gave it credit for and because of the people I recognized every day that took part in them. Thanks to the discord communities who made that experience enjoyable for the month I was involved. :) And special thanks to the commanders, you guys are amazing. Hopefully we can find another spot to grind after this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microsoft Chad.9462 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @Obtena.7952 said:@Pandemic.7854 said:@Obtena.7952 said:@Pandemic.7854 said:@X T D.6458 said:@Pandemic.7854 said:@Obtena.7952 said:@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:I think the aspect you're missing here is that when people get bored they quit. More players are far less likely to have that happen in Istan, for the reasons I've already eloquently explained, and that's why they choose it over SW.Note: No one said the loot wasn't important. The fact that the loot is important is why we're here talking about it. What we're trying to talk about is how a farm that attracted people who liked to actively farm instead of passively has entirely collapsed.Well, then I guess people quitting over losing out on easy, excessive loot is less bad than what Istan delivers to players. Otherwise, Anet wouldn't be changing it. Players leaving because bored isn't a reason for Anet to not change the game. Selling Istan like the only place players can actively farm is just incorrect. Players leaving = less revenue generated. Very simple, also not dismissable. No one has voiced an opinion that other meta's should suffer, in fact most support other meta's being reworked, as they have for a long time. If a company cant make a healthy change for their game because they fear some people who farm an event all day might spend some money on gems will quit...well that would just be really bad business wouldn't it?A healthy change generally doesn't involve a portion of the playerbase wanting to quit.Sure it can. it's irrelevant how players see it ... Anet changing the game isn't decided by polling players to see who can speculate the best. Players leave. If the game changes and some players leave, then so be it, good or bad change. Sustainable business models generally involve caring what your customers (players) think, irrational ones do not, yes.Yup, and there is no evidence to suggest Anet doesn't do that; no business is going to please all their customers all the time. Changing how business is done isn't a choice taken lightly ... but still, businesses do it. Fearmongering isn't going to get you far here. Not fearmongering, simply logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @Pandemic.7854 said:@Obtena.7952 said:@Pandemic.7854 said:@Obtena.7952 said:@Pandemic.7854 said:@X T D.6458 said:@Pandemic.7854 said:@Obtena.7952 said:@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:I think the aspect you're missing here is that when people get bored they quit. More players are far less likely to have that happen in Istan, for the reasons I've already eloquently explained, and that's why they choose it over SW.Note: No one said the loot wasn't important. The fact that the loot is important is why we're here talking about it. What we're trying to talk about is how a farm that attracted people who liked to actively farm instead of passively has entirely collapsed.Well, then I guess people quitting over losing out on easy, excessive loot is less bad than what Istan delivers to players. Otherwise, Anet wouldn't be changing it. Players leaving because bored isn't a reason for Anet to not change the game. Selling Istan like the only place players can actively farm is just incorrect. Players leaving = less revenue generated. Very simple, also not dismissable. No one has voiced an opinion that other meta's should suffer, in fact most support other meta's being reworked, as they have for a long time. If a company cant make a healthy change for their game because they fear some people who farm an event all day might spend some money on gems will quit...well that would just be really bad business wouldn't it?A healthy change generally doesn't involve a portion of the playerbase wanting to quit.Sure it can. it's irrelevant how players see it ... Anet changing the game isn't decided by polling players to see who can speculate the best. Players leave. If the game changes and some players leave, then so be it, good or bad change. Sustainable business models generally involve caring what your customers (players) think, irrational ones do not, yes.Yup, and there is no evidence to suggest Anet doesn't do that; no business is going to please all their customers all the time. Changing how business is done isn't a choice taken lightly ... but still, businesses do it. Fearmongering isn't going to get you far here. Not fearmongering, simply logic.Yup, it's going to happen and everyone knows that probably some players are going to leave. That's not going to stop it. As I said, potential for players leaving isn't a reason for Anet to not make changes to the game. Therefore, appealing to the fear that players will leave isn't compelling. That IS fearmongering BTW ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpinDashMaster.5680 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Can we use quotes a little more carefully, please? Y'all are pinging me and like 10 other people every time you post.At the very least, delete the quote format up to the point of the person you're actually quoting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X T D.6458 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @Obtena.7952 said:@X T D.6458 said:@Pandemic.7854 said:@Obtena.7952 said:@Pandemic.7854 said:@X T D.6458 said:@Pandemic.7854 said:@Obtena.7952 said:@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:I think the aspect you're missing here is that when people get bored they quit. More players are far less likely to have that happen in Istan, for the reasons I've already eloquently explained, and that's why they choose it over SW.Note: No one said the loot wasn't important. The fact that the loot is important is why we're here talking about it. What we're trying to talk about is how a farm that attracted people who liked to actively farm instead of passively has entirely collapsed.Well, then I guess people quitting over losing out on easy, excessive loot is less bad than what Istan delivers to players. Otherwise, Anet wouldn't be changing it. Players leaving because bored isn't a reason for Anet to not change the game. Selling Istan like the only place players can actively farm is just incorrect. Players leaving = less revenue generated. Very simple, also not dismissable. No one has voiced an opinion that other meta's should suffer, in fact most support other meta's being reworked, as they have for a long time. If a company cant make a healthy change for their game because they fear some people who farm an event all day might spend some money on gems will quit...well that would just be really bad business wouldn't it?A healthy change generally doesn't involve a portion of the playerbase wanting to quit.Sure it can. it's irrelevant how players see it ... Anet changing the game isn't decided by polling players to see who can speculate the best. Players leave. If the game changes and some players leave, then so be it, good or bad change. Sustainable business models generally involve caring what your customers (players) think, irrational ones do not, yes.So why does your opinion count more than mine? HAHA! I like that ... apparently some people's thinking is more equal than other people's thinking. :wink: It's funny when people play the fear card of people leaving to influence Anet on the forum. Thank you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X T D.6458 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @SpinDashMaster.5680 said:Can we use quotes a little more carefully, please? Y'all are pinging me and like 10 other people every time you post.It happens when someone quotes a quote of a quote you quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpinDashMaster.5680 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Or when you quoted me just now, unnecessarily. I know what I said. >_>Now, would you kindly knock it off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @"X T D.6458" said:Thank you :)Players that don't want something to change: "Hey Anet, did you know that if you make this change, players will leave?"Anet (in an alarming tone): "OMG WHAT?!! WE HAD NO IDEA!! NEW POLICY! NO GAME CHANGES!!! EVER!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X T D.6458 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @SpinDashMaster.5680 said:Or when you quoted me just now, unnecessarily. I know what I said. >_>Just making sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skotlex.7580 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Wonder how heavily will the rewards be impacted. The events in question have plenty of champions, which probably make for better loot than the supply stash. So why go after stashes? I am thinking it has to do with volatile magic. So ANet probably wants to tone down the VM supply, to what end? I am guessing Istan farming is impacting materials costs more than they want them to be, thus this change. Otherwise, if they wanted to nerf the farm, they could have changed the scaling to spawn significantly more elites and reduce the champions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X T D.6458 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @Obtena.7952 said:@"X T D.6458" said:Thank you :)Players that don't want something to change: "Hey Anet, did you know that if you make this change, players will leave?"Anet (in an alarming tone): "OMG WHAT?!! WE HAD NO IDEA!! NEW POLICY! NO GAME CHANGES!!! EVER!!!"Ah yes the foundation of any successful business...inaction :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpinDashMaster.5680 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @Skotlex.7580 In Palawadan the supply stashes are not the entire source of income, but an especially significant one, and definitely moreso than the Phylacteries. In the case of Great Hall, the Phylacteries are better by a considerable margin, because you get 24+, but the VM caches (as I like to refer to them) are a significant amount as well.VM is an important part of Istan's profit and a large portion of that is found in the caches. It shoots a lot of Istan's profit where it hurts: shipment purchases of Trophies/Leather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skotlex.7580 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @SpinDashMaster.5680 said:VM is an important part of Istan's profit and a large portion of that is found in the caches. It shoots a lot of Istan's profit where it hurts: shipment purchases of Trophies/Leather.Exactly, I am guessing ANet didn't want to have a farm for trophies/leather supplies to the degree that Istan ended up being.Though I am still saddened by how difficult it is to acquire hardened leather. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta.2563 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 So since you guys are nerfing Istan, how about making Domain of Kourna rewards better??That map is a complete joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazanyeah.7014 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 So as I see that the Arenanet is commanding its player base about how they should play and enjoy their game. Pathetic.. With all these changes I can clearly say that only enjoyable map of the PoF is going to be dead..Sandwept: 32slot bag, some smoothie avocados and no more..Kourna: Get your beetle and never see that map againJahai: Only for Shatterer 2.0 betweem AB and DSThunderpeaks: Too early to write somethingsIstan: Everyday and every night whenever you want there are always people and community there..FAREWELL BOB.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vantooth.6347 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I hate the "daily" mentality. If one day I feel like doing istan farm for a day what's wrong with that? I don't want to do 10 10-minutes activities I prefer 1 100 minutes activity. While I won't say Istan should not be touched, I don't want another once a day and done event. These greatly discourage me from continually playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torqbow.2839 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 There are other things that could be changed that are not tied to the daily reset. This is obviously a case of them not wanting people to be there all day, and encouraging players to farm multiple events every day regardless if they enjoy them or not. Damn Blizzard, i mean Anet. Sorry had to, but you guys are kind of becoming one in the same. :disappointed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torqbow.2839 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @X T D.6458 said:@Pandemic.7854 said:@X T D.6458 said:@Pandemic.7854 said:@Obtena.7952 said:@"SpinDashMaster.5680" said:I think the aspect you're missing here is that when people get bored they quit. More players are far less likely to have that happen in Istan, for the reasons I've already eloquently explained, and that's why they choose it over SW.Note: No one said the loot wasn't important. The fact that the loot is important is why we're here talking about it. What we're trying to talk about is how a farm that attracted people who liked to actively farm instead of passively has entirely collapsed.Well, then I guess people quitting over losing out on easy, excessive loot is less bad than what Istan delivers to players. Otherwise, Anet wouldn't be changing it. Players leaving because bored isn't a reason for Anet to not change the game. Selling Istan like the only place players can actively farm is just incorrect. Players leaving = less revenue generated. Very simple, also not dismissable. No one has voiced an opinion that other meta's should suffer, in fact most support other meta's being reworked, as they have for a long time. If a company cant make a healthy change for their game because they fear some people who farm an event all day might spend some money on gems will quit...well that would just be really bad business wouldn't it?A healthy change generally doesn't involve a portion of the playerbase wanting to quit. If less potential revenue and less happy customers is considered healthy, then yeah it's a healthy change. I don't think many see it that way.After 6 years, if I had a nickel for everytime I've heard about all these players that are going to quit because of X change. Heck I bet if I go to the Istan metas after this change, I will still lag like crazy, there will still be engi turrets everywhere, and I still wont see anything but player nametags on my screenThat's not the point some of us are trying to make. Its more about how they are nerfing Istan, and their underlying reasons for doing so. But yeah I agree, the whole "im gonna quit rant is way over used." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhein.8197 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @"Empanda.4617" said:So ok I understand why you'd want to nerf istan but I'd just like to say Anet, you released the new chapter, full of bugs and crashes. You haven't fixed THAT yet, but you want to change istan, a map grind that people actually enjoy. Now its hard not to be salty about this after experiencing the new chapter and all the bugs, glitches and crashes. Are you POSITIVE, you want to change istan before you fix that new map and story instances where people can get stuck in rocks and crystals in the story instances, dwarven plates don't drop all the time or drop multiple time for the same person messing it up for the other players who need it? Are you POSITIVE you want to change it before you change the fact that you've released broken material that you expect us to be ok with? Like don't get me wrong the istan grind is OP, but at least its not SO broken it's not enjoyable like the new map is. I think you should look at the bad broken map and story you've released before dislocating hundreds of players from their happy grinding area. Now as a coder I know its not that simple, but as a player I have to say this isn't the best way to make your players happy at the moment. I know this may not be the most popular opinion either.This 1000000x. Some of the bugs are just unacceptable, especially given the lack of response to certain bugs (I'm starting to think the DB weapon issues will never be resolved). And I think it's a shame that someone has to tag their posts with "I know this may not be the most popular opinion". Like, why is that? Because the player base is largely just as apathetic as ANet about the game's issues because they're jaded by years of bugs? Whatever. It's sad to see anyone discussing Istan when the latest content is simply not in order. As someone else pointed out, the game seems poised to become daily login w a gem store transaction here and there (i mean honestly, that's where we are now). So you as a player have to accept that this is the free content experience GW2 is based upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocki.4931 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @Rhein.8197 said:@"Empanda.4617" said:So ok I understand why you'd want to nerf istan but I'd just like to say Anet, you released the new chapter, full of bugs and crashes. You haven't fixed THAT yet, but you want to change istan, a map grind that people actually enjoy. Now its hard not to be salty about this after experiencing the new chapter and all the bugs, glitches and crashes. Are you POSITIVE, you want to change istan before you fix that new map and story instances where people can get stuck in rocks and crystals in the story instances, dwarven plates don't drop all the time or drop multiple time for the same person messing it up for the other players who need it? Are you POSITIVE you want to change it before you change the fact that you've released broken material that you expect us to be ok with? Like don't get me wrong the istan grind is OP, but at least its not SO broken it's not enjoyable like the new map is. I think you should look at the bad broken map and story you've released before dislocating hundreds of players from their happy grinding area. Now as a coder I know its not that simple, but as a player I have to say this isn't the best way to make your players happy at the moment. I know this may not be the most popular opinion either.This 1000000x. Some of the bugs are just unacceptable, especially given the lack of response to certain bugs (I'm starting to think the DB weapon issues will never be resolved). And I think it's a shame that someone has to tag their posts with "I know this may not be the most popular opinion". Like, why is that? Because the player base is largely just as apathetic as ANet about the game's issues because they're jaded by years of bugs? Whatever. It's sad to see anyone discussing Istan when the latest content is simply not in order. So a bug that exists for hardly 2 weeks makes you think it will never get fixed? Something they can't just activate a switch on that will magically fix it? Really? They've acknowledged several of the bugs and they're working on them. This is useless doomsaying though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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