Changes to Istan Meta Farming (Discussion)

[Tunderbrew.9531]

@LucianDK.8615 said:Way too profitable maps needs to get the hammer where it hurts. The rewards of istan was out of whack.

Ya, don't stop until everything in this game is equally unrewarding. Keep those players in line! /s

I haven't touched Istan in months, but it will be hilariously sad if this game makes the same mistakes that sent it an influx of players from other games.

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

@Okami Amaterasu.9237 said:

@"SpinDashMaster.5680" said:Again, your plan works when addressing 4-5 people. It does not when you're addressing 2000.

Well, that's life. You can't easily, if at all possibly, keep in real touch with hundreds or even thousands of people. What do you expect Anet to do instead? Promote people to spend all of their game time in just One map every day until a better one for gold-farming comes up? That's not socializing, that's busy work. Why couldn't people socialize on the other maps, even with a lower, less "swarmed" population?

Okay, you're really missing the point here. I couldn't care less what happens to my relationships with 2000 strangers. People come and go all the time. Again, the goal here is how to deal with where those 2000 people go from here. Again, not me, them.

I guarantee you their time spent in this game is going to decrease. They're not going to take suggestions to go singularly organize in another map at time point X on day Y, and then migrate again. They lack the singular meeting place, which means they are now scattered.

Lastly, I know you're having a hard time seeing why Istan farm is uniquely seen as social. But I strongly suggest you get a viewpoint from the communities that exist there before you take that stance. Istan does have the aura of a friendly farm, with friendly people, and even players helping players within the squad, teaching each other, learning and growing together about improving efficiency and why certain people have to break off and handle tasks, in something that did feel like an extended family.

It is anything BUT a mindless zerg and certainly not a boring farm, in the eyes of me or them. It was busy work as you say, but everyone has a blast doing it our way. If you were ever graced with one of our communities that do the multimap farm you'd understand that.

It was literally the only farm in this game where players are so engaged that they HAVE to work together, to the degree that they are rewarded the more they collaborate.

[LucianDK.8615]

@Tunderbrew.9531 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Way too profitable maps needs to get the hammer where it hurts. The rewards of istan was out of whack.

Ya, don't stop until everything in this game is equally unrewarding. Keep those players in line! /s

I haven't touched Istan in months, but it will be hilariously sad if this game makes the same mistakes that sent it an influx of players from other games.

Eh, if something is way overfarmed 24/7, then theres something wrong with it. Good thing with a reward capping to ensure people do other stuff too.

[MMOStein.3872]

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@Tunderbrew.9531 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Way too profitable maps needs to get the hammer where it hurts. The rewards of istan was out of whack.

Ya, don't stop until everything in this game is equally unrewarding. Keep those players in line! /s

I haven't touched Istan in months, but it will be hilariously sad if this game makes the same mistakes that sent it an influx of players from other games.

Eh, if something is way overfarmed 24/7, then theres something wrong with it. Good thing with a reward capping to ensure people do other stuff too.

If nothing else is rewarding or worth doing, people won't "do other stuff". They will log off of the game. Nerfing Istan (which was a perpetual farm) and not buffing the other farms to compensate, does not somehow make Meta farmers want to keep playing the game. It was overfarmed 24/7 because it is basically the only farm that is lucrative and consistent. Almost all other meta farms are extremely lackluster or irrelevant.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

I belong to the group of people which accept this change with a /shrug. I have done the farm a couple of times and I giggled a lot when I joined a squad on Saturday morning just to find the same squad with the same commander again at Sunday afternoon. I was often told that the squad was never shut down, they just switched the commanders. I do not know what you call this, but in my opinion it is grinding. We have different preferences and ideas of joy, but camping a computer to camp one map and one routine over more than 24 hours seems a little rough to me.

Another point of view most farmers neglect completely, you do not run on a power-supply. It is not like you can plug an USB cable in your belly-button and run for another 48 hours straight. Our body has needs and requires diversity (food, liquid, drinks, pee-break, sleep, movement, ... etc.). Grinding a single spot or even chain just leads us to neglect the needs of our body ... just another round ... and another ... one more ... I am almost at 400g ... I'll do a break when the clock is full hour ... quarter ... half ... full hour ... almost at 500 g ... you know your limits, those are rookie numbers, right?

As far as I understand most of us play GW2 in our freetime, which is designed to give our body a pause and some time to relax from work/study/school. Not to treat it even worse. Only a healthy community is a good community.

It is a good decision for the community.

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@Tunderbrew.9531 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Way too profitable maps needs to get the hammer where it hurts. The rewards of istan was out of whack.

Ya, don't stop until everything in this game is equally unrewarding. Keep those players in line! /s

I haven't touched Istan in months, but it will be hilariously sad if this game makes the same mistakes that sent it an influx of players from other games.

Eh, if something is way overfarmed 24/7, then theres something wrong with it. Good thing with a reward capping to ensure people do other stuff too.

I have facts for you. Reward capping doesn't send players elsewhere. It sends them offline. People don't want to have to migrate constantly, shifting as events arise. The problem with that approach is that while players 13-35 in a squad might not have done the map we're headed to next, players 36-44 will have, and half the squad rotates like a revolving door, if you're even successful enough to refill in LFG in time.

And what if the commander was among the 36-44 group and decides "whoops, I'm done for the day, bye y'all!"

Any farming effort involving daily elements in this manner would be horribly disrupted. It would be more efficient to go pick up a part time job, pay for gems with that money, and then convert it to gold.

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:I belong to the group of people which accept this change with a /shrug. I have done the farm a couple of times and I giggled a lot when I joined a squad on Saturday morning just to find the same squad with the same commander again at Sunday afternoon. I was often told that the squad was never shut down, they just switched the commanders. I do not know what you call this, but in my opinion it is grinding. We have different preferences and ideas of joy, but camping a computer to camp one map and one routine over more than 24 hours seems a little rough to me.

Another point of view most farmers neglect completely, you do not run on a power-supply. It is not like you can plug an USB cable in your belly-button and run for another 48 hours straight. Our body has needs and requires diversity (food, liquid, drinks, pee-break, sleep, movement, ... etc.). Grinding a single spot or even chain just leads us to neglect the needs of our body ... just another round ... and another ... one more ... I am almost at 400g ... I'll do a break when the clock is full hour ... quarter ... half ... full hour ... almost at 500 g ... you know your limits, those are rookie numbers, right?

As far as I understand most of us play GW2 in our freetime, which is designed to give our body a pause and some time to relax from work/study/school. Not to treat it even worse. Only a healthy community is a good community.

It is a good decision for the community.

Okay I have news for you too. This is not a nonstop grindfest. There is a whopping 15-minute pause every two hours, just before Palawadan. That's plenty of time to stretch, get water, empty your bags, have a snack, let your dogs outside, use the restroom, let them back in, chat with other players, all within the time it takes to get back from break.

If that's not enough of a break for you, nothing's stopping you from AFK'ing anytime you want.

[DaFishBob.6518]

I don't know if I really like the goal of coercing a certain play style on the player base given the amount of time this has been around. The statement leaves something to be desired. I'd more inclined to believe the goal is to stop multimap metas entirely to normalize server demands among maps. Somehow I imagine zergs of farmers jumping map instances in a short period of time demands a lot more server power than people running in a circle doing events.

[Obtena.7952]

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@Okami Amaterasu.9237 said:

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@Okami Amaterasu.9237 said:Personally I feel that if the community that was fostered by grinding out Awakened mobs minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day, is complaining that they won't spend as much time together, then it isn't as close-knit and tight of a community as they're saying it is.

If you're concerned about playing with your friends, then have some fun and play with your friends! If you're concerned about making gold, then play and make yourself some gold. But don't intertwine the two as if they're inseparable. You can still make your gold and/or play with your friends in Domain of Istan or almost any other level 80 map you choose. It's just that Now, it won't be as mind-numbingly dull and tiresome to expect to play in only one map all day long because "that's where the gold farm is" or "that's where all my friends play". Why not add some variety to both?

Okay so, you don't have to tell me that. Or Jim. or Susie Q. Individually anyone can go find something else to do, with our IRL or small group of friends.

However, when the basis of multiple communities is centered around a certain activity, and that activity is gone, those thousands of people aren't going to just flock to the same next activity. That's not how people work, and it would be robotic and inhumane to assume such.

The concern here lies with the players who didn't have other friends in this game, or didn't have the courage to speak up until they found us. They now go back to where they came from, because what they saw as their one chance to be social with complete strangers in this game and actually get friendly responses back, is gone.

Now, when you finish telling me, Jim, and Susie Q what we as players should be doing, go tell that to 2000 other people. And when you finish, contemplate why it's your place to tell us where we should be playing.

I didn't say you could No Longer play in DoI, just that Anet probably wants it to feel like less of a chore. I'm assuming they want people to spread out across the LWS4 maps for your VM farming and Unidentified Gear farming, though the latter I'm not as familiar with.

The activity isn't "gone" it's just not as profitable to do it all day, every single day. You can fight the Claw of Jormag every few hours and meet people who enjoy taking on the ice dragon lieutenant All the time, but it just won't be as profitable to do it more than once a day. I think that's the same principle finally being put into practice here. It's meant to encourage players to do more with their time than join farm trains if "gold farming" is their priority. However if you just want to smack Awakened upside their rotting heads, you can still do that, all day even if you want.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that every piece of open-world PvE content in GW2 is friendly towards letting people join up together and do activities together. I don't know why exactly you think Domain of Istan was "their one chance to be social" in the whole game and that it was the only place they'd "actually get friendly responses back". Maybe they just had an unlucky experience, but GW2's been the most friendly, social game I've ever played. If you're concerned about some people who might not have anyone else to interact with, then add them as a friend and message them or send them mail or invite them to a guild. Anet made a good foundation for letting players naturally work together instead of against each other in PvE (with instanced nodes and event-scaling and level-scaling), but if some people don't want to socialize and keep in touch with each other, that's not Anet's job.

Again, your plan works when addressing 4-5 people. It does not when you're addressing 2000.

Same response to @Obtena.7952

Yeah I don't get your response at all to what I said. Simply put, what you presented isn't a concern ... there has ALWAYS been a zerg farm in this game. The only thing that changes is where it goes. If capping Istan sends zerg farms offline, then it would have already done so when it moved from champ farming, to Silverwastes, to ...

The fact is that the zerg farm doesn't go away, regardless of what changes, despite your attempts to convince us that people are just going to quit.

[Okami Amaterasu.9237]

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@Okami Amaterasu.9237 said:

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:Again, your plan works when addressing 4-5 people. It does not when you're addressing 2000.

Well, that's life. You can't easily, if at all possibly, keep in real touch with hundreds or even thousands of people. What do you expect Anet to do instead? Promote people to spend all of their game time in just One map every day until a better one for gold-farming comes up? That's not socializing, that's busy work. Why couldn't people socialize on the other maps, even with a lower, less "swarmed" population?

Okay, you're really missing the point here. I couldn't care less what happens to my relationships with 2000 strangers. People come and go all the time. Again, the goal here is how to deal with where those 2000 people go from here. Again, not me,

them

.

I guarantee you their time spent in this game is going to decrease. They're not going to take suggestions to go singularly organize in another map at time point X on day Y, and then migrate again. They lack the singular meeting place, which means they are now scattered.

Lastly, I know you're having a hard time seeing why Istan farm is uniquely seen as social. But I strongly suggest you get a viewpoint from the communities that exist there before you take that stance. Istan does have the aura of a friendly farm, with friendly people, and even players helping players within the squad, teaching each other, learning and growing together about improving efficiency and why certain people have to break off and handle tasks, in something that did feel like an extended family.

It is anything BUT a mindless zerg and certainly not a boring farm, in the eyes of me or them. It was busy work as you say, but everyone has a blast doing it our way.

Well, you might be right that people will play less now that the "main and only" (pfft) place to farm gold has been nerfed. But, it's still There. They don't "lack" the singular meeting place. If Istan is where they show up to hang out and farm gold, then hey, they can do that. That is, until they stop earning their daily rewards due to this change. Then the question is: are they there to hang out with friends, to make gold, or both?

If they're there to hang out, they can stay there all day. Who am I to dictate when, where, and how you should spend time with your friends? If they're there to make gold, they can still do so, but for only, what, 2 hours now, instead of 6-12? I personally think that's a reasonably good about of time to spend in one map, and there are still plenty of other ways to make gold in the game.

If people want to both socialize and make some gold, a few things come to mind for me: World Boss Trains, PoF Bounty Trains, HoT Meta Events Trains, LWS4 Meta Events Trains (including Istan), the Silverwastes, and World vs. World. For smaller groups, you got Dungeons (though not as profitable), Fractals, Raids, and joining in in any of the larger groups mentioned before.

So, yes, this change to the Istan metas might lower the population (I bet it'll still be packed), and it might make some players take a break from or leave the game. But I don't see why the change to the rewards has anything to do with the "uniquely social and friendly" community, unless they're not there for the community, but just for the rewards.

[Empanda.4617]

@Crackmonster.2790 said:

@"Empanda.4617" said:So ok I understand why you'd want to nerf istan but I'd just like to say Anet, you released the new chapter, full of bugs and crashes. You haven't fixed THAT yet, but you want to change istan, a map grind that people actually enjoy. Now its hard not to be salty about this after experiencing the new chapter and all the bugs, glitches and crashes. Are you POSITIVE, you want to change istan before you fix that new map and story instances where people can get stuck in rocks and crystals in the story instances, dwarven plates don't drop all the time or drop multiple time for the same person messing it up for the other players who need it? Are you POSITIVE you want to change it before you change the fact that you've released broken material that you expect us to be ok with? Like don't get me wrong the istan grind is OP, but at least its not SO broken it's not enjoyable like the new map is. I think you should look at the bad broken map and story you've released before dislocating hundreds of players from their happy grinding area. Now as a coder I know its not that simple, but as a player I have to say this isn't the best way to make your players happy at the moment.

I know this may not be the most popular opinion either.

This is a textbook example of "all who lose power are afraid to lose it".

No wonder people like it, it's so rewarding you can just keep doing that. It is devaluating all lesser content by being overtuned. Don't get me wrong, i enjoy it too but because its so very rewarding we all want more more more don't we. Matter of fact, i learned about changes while farming it.

This is not to mention that so many increasingly rewarding things are put in game things had gotten so much easier to acquire now, i am happy to see it dialled back i dont want everything to be too easy to get, already gw2 isn't a game where it's super hard to get stuff, no need reach more towards welfare everything.

Ok Crackmonster, first You quoted that wrong VERY VERY wrong the quote is "All those who gain power are afraid to lose it.". second, I agree it needs to be nerfed maybe not to the extent their nerfing it, but my point was that there is more important things to be corrected before the istan grind. Like I'm just not connecting with your words on how I'm afraid to lose istan when I'm using logic while also agreeing that it needs to be nerfed? Do you understand how power works? Cause If I was REALLy into the power of gold I WOULDN"T be doing istan because there are MUCH better ways to earn it. Istan was simply the funnest way for me, because we'd joke around in a squad while killing undead minions who were for some reason hoarding food? even though their dead?

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

@"Obtena.7952" said:Yeah I don't get your response at all to what I said. Simply put, what you presented isn't a concern ... there has ALWAYS been a zerg farm in this game. The only thing that changes is where it goes.

Let me put it more plainly then. The people farming Istan are not a "zerg" in the mindless sense we've been using it in.

People uniquely went to it and not other farms because of its social aspects and teamwork requirements. It's those 2000 you'll need to address.

[Obtena.7952]

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:Yeah I don't get your response at all to what I said. Simply put, what you presented isn't a concern ... there has ALWAYS been a zerg farm in this game. The only thing that changes is where it goes.

Let me put it more plainly then. The people farming Istan are not a "zerg" in the mindless sense we've been using it in.

People uniquely went to it and not other farms because of its social aspects and teamwork requirements. It's those 2000 you'll need to address.

That makes no sense ... you're going to try to argue that Istan farm has something unique about it's social aspects and teamwork that differentiates it from other ways to mass farm in the past? OK ... go for it then ... What exactly are those unique somethings that makes Istan different from Silverwastes for example?

Because the fix here isn't to leave Istan alone. The fix here is to take that magic pixie dust that makes Istan so unique from all other mass farm events and spread it around ...

So you let us know what those unique things are, convince us that other spots doesn't have those things and then maybe your position will make sense and be compelling to Anet to do something more in all areas of the game. I'm going to be frank ... the idea that Istan has some social interact and teamwork magic that differentiates it from other mass farms doesn't make sense to me. If anything, it's one of the worst offenders for a LACK of those things in a farm. At least in Silverwastes, there are timing and organization of events to be successful. Nothing like that exists in Istan. I think you are full of it.

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

@Okami Amaterasu.9237 said:

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@Okami Amaterasu.9237 said:

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:Again, your plan works when addressing 4-5 people. It does not when you're addressing 2000.

Well, that's life. You can't easily, if at all possibly, keep in real touch with hundreds or even thousands of people. What do you expect Anet to do instead? Promote people to spend all of their game time in just One map every day until a better one for gold-farming comes up? That's not socializing, that's busy work. Why couldn't people socialize on the other maps, even with a lower, less "swarmed" population?

Okay, you're really missing the point here. I couldn't care less what happens to my relationships with 2000 strangers. People come and go all the time. Again, the goal here is how to deal with where those 2000 people go from here. Again, not me,

them

.

I guarantee you their time spent in this game is going to decrease. They're not going to take suggestions to go singularly organize in another map at time point X on day Y, and then migrate again. They lack the singular meeting place, which means they are now scattered.

Lastly, I know you're having a hard time seeing why Istan farm is uniquely seen as social. But I strongly suggest you get a viewpoint from the communities that exist there before you take that stance. Istan does have the aura of a friendly farm, with friendly people, and even players helping players within the squad, teaching each other, learning and growing together about improving efficiency and why certain people have to break off and handle tasks, in something that did feel like an extended family.

It is anything BUT a mindless zerg and certainly not a boring farm, in the eyes of me or them. It was busy work as you say, but everyone has a blast doing it our way.

Well, you might be right that people will play less now that the "main and only" (pfft) place to farm gold has been nerfed. But, it's still There. They don't "lack" the singular meeting place. If Istan is where they show up to hang out and farm gold, then hey, they can do that. That is, until they stop earning their daily rewards due to this change. Then the question is: are they there to hang out with friends, to make gold, or both?

If they're there to hang out, they can stay there all day. Who am I to dictate when, where, and how you should spend time with your friends? If they're there to make gold, they can still do so, but for only, what, 2 hours now, instead of 6-12? I personally think that's a reasonably good about of time to spend in one map, and there are still plenty of other ways to make gold in the game.

If people want to both socialize and make some gold, a few things come to mind for me: World Boss Trains, PoF Bounty Trains, HoT Meta Events Trains, LWS4 Meta Events Trains (including Istan), the Silverwastes, and World vs. World. For smaller groups, you got Dungeons (though not as profitable), Fractals, Raids, and joining in in any of the larger groups mentioned before.

So, yes, this change to the Istan metas might lower the population (I bet it'll still be packed), and it might make some players take a break from or leave the game. But I don't see why the change to the rewards has anything to do with the "uniquely social and friendly" community, unless they're not there for the community, but just for the rewards.

It's a little bit of both. Lower rewards are obviously going to discourage some people. That would be easy enough to deal with if that were the only consequence. The problem is the domino effect it ends up having on the social side. "Susie Q's not here anymore and she's my favorite commander, so I don't want to be here anymore." "Well, Jim left so I wanna leave too." And so begins the ghost town effect. The 2000 people who were looking up to Susie Q and Jim for guidance are now out of luck.

[zealex.9410]

Prob the first time i see a dev going so hard about making sure that ppl spend less time playing the game.

I agree that istan wasn't particularly balanced but i feel like you could balance it without removing the value of grinding it.

This is a bigger problem i have in general with the game, that it actively over the years has shifted towards a daily todo list aproach compaored to the days when u could just play as much as u wanted, oh well.

[zealex.9410]

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:I belong to the group of people which accept this change with a /shrug. I have done the farm a couple of times and I giggled a lot when I joined a squad on Saturday morning just to find the same squad with the same commander again at Sunday afternoon. I was often told that the squad was never shut down, they just switched the commanders. I do not know what you call this, but in my opinion it is grinding. We have different preferences and ideas of joy, but camping a computer to camp one map and one routine over more than 24 hours seems a little rough to me.

Another point of view most farmers neglect completely, you do not run on a power-supply. It is not like you can plug an USB cable in your belly-button and run for another 48 hours straight. Our body has needs and requires diversity (food, liquid, drinks, pee-break, sleep, movement, ... etc.). Grinding a single spot or even chain just leads us to neglect the needs of our body ... just another round ... and another ... one more ... I am almost at 400g ... I'll do a break when the clock is full hour ... quarter ... half ... full hour ... almost at 500 g ... you know your limits, those are rookie numbers, right?

As far as I understand most of us play GW2 in our freetime, which is designed to give our body a pause and some time to relax from work/study/school. Not to treat it even worse. Only a healthy community is a good community.

It is a good decision for the community.

Diff ppl have diff amounts of free time and do diff things in game based on said free time.

[Emberstone.2904]

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@Tunderbrew.9531 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Way too profitable maps needs to get the hammer where it hurts. The rewards of istan was out of whack.

Ya, don't stop until everything in this game is equally unrewarding. Keep those players in line! /s

I haven't touched Istan in months, but it will be hilariously sad if this game makes the same mistakes that sent it an influx of players from other games.

Eh, if something is way overfarmed 24/7, then theres something wrong with it. Good thing with a reward capping to ensure people do other stuff too.

I have facts for you. Reward capping doesn't send players elsewhere. It sends them

offline

.This is painfully true for me.

If an Istan farm isn't going on (or I can't get into a squad), I'll just do my daily fractals, log off, and lately I've been going back to Guild Wars 1.

I don't stay on to grind achievements or collections because I don't find them fun at all. Istan was a big part of my time played, and I enjoyed it.

[Duckota.4769]

I take it we'll hear nothing on the feedback people are giving here from the devs. Typical and sad tbh. They only respond to things that have to do with gem transactions or people praising their work in the forums.

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Yeah I don't get your response at all to what I said. Simply put, what you presented isn't a concern ... there has ALWAYS been a zerg farm in this game. The only thing that changes is where it goes.

Let me put it more plainly then. The people farming Istan are not a "zerg" in the mindless sense we've been using it in.

People uniquely went to it and not other farms because of its social aspects and teamwork requirements. It's those 2000 you'll need to address.

That makes no sense ... you're going to try to argue that Istan farm has something unique about it's social aspects and teamwork that differentiates it from other ways to mass farm in the past? OK ... go for it then ... What exactly are those unique somethings that makes Istan different from Silverwastes for example?

Because the fix here isn't to leave Istan alone. The fix here is to take that magic pixie dust that makes Istan so unique from all other mass farm events and spread it around ...

So you let us know what those unique things are, convince us that other spots doesn't have those things and then maybe your position will make sense and be compelling to Anet to do something more in all areas of the game.

Well, if you've read my other posts I have actually mentioned these things. But I'll answer your most burning question right away: What does make Istan so much more different than Silverwastes?

First of all, it makes sense to understand that Istan, even at max efficiency, and hitting all 8 GH events in a cycle, is less profitable than Silverwastes. It therefore stands to reason that there is a non-monetary reason to be in Istan instead of SW.

In silverwastes, there is basically one mindless zerg running around in a RIBA circle, again and again, until they trigger the meta and change maps to restart the circle. For players like me that have seen that for far too long, that's boring. There's nothing to talk about. Nothing to optimize. Just tag, run, repeat.

Players like myself and those who are in Istan choose to be there instead of SW, where we could have been making money a lot more efficiently, because we get the chance to actually work as a team.

And therein lies the pixie dust.

Because that higher level of Istan farming involves cooperating and coordinating forces to split and handle mechanics in various areas, while also watching the states of 2-3 other maps also active at the time. Because of the sheer complexity, people have to work together to communicate the situation, when events are popping up and where, making decisions about what should have the top priority so opportunities aren't missed, making sure that two squads are in sync by taxi-ing both and communicating via DM's and map chat... the list goes on.

The scene literally demands players be social in order to succeed at the highest level in Istan. Seeing it in action for yourself is believing. I can't give it enough words. The degree to which everyone, not just the commander tag, comes together and cooperates is on a level higher than anything I had ever seen anywhere else in this game.

So yeah, that's some serious pixie dust.

[Okami Amaterasu.9237]

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@"Okami Amaterasu.9237" said:Well, you might be right that people will play less now that the "main and only" (pfft) place to farm gold has been nerfed. But, it's still There. They don't "lack" the singular meeting place. If Istan is where they show up to hang out and farm gold, then hey, they can do that. That is, until they stop earning their daily rewards due to this change. Then the question is: are they there to hang out with friends, to make gold, or both?

If they're there to hang out, they can stay there all day. Who am I to dictate when, where, and how you should spend time with your friends? If they're there to make gold, they can still do so, but for only, what, 2 hours now, instead of 6-12? I personally think that's a reasonably good about of time to spend in one map, and there are still plenty of other ways to make gold in the game.

If people want to both socialize and make some gold, a few things come to mind for me: World Boss Trains, PoF Bounty Trains, HoT Meta Events Trains, LWS4 Meta Events Trains (including Istan), the Silverwastes, and World vs. World. For smaller groups, you got Dungeons (though not as profitable), Fractals, Raids, and joining in in any of the larger groups mentioned before.

So, yes, this change to the Istan metas might lower the population (I bet it'll still be packed), and it might make some players take a break from or leave the game. But I don't see why the change to the rewards has anything to do with the "uniquely social and friendly" community, unless they're not there for the community, but just for the rewards.

It's a little bit of both. Lower rewards are obviously going to discourage some people. That would be easy enough to deal with if that were the only consequence. The problem is the domino effect it ends up having on the social side. "Susie Q's not here anymore and she's my favorite commander, so I don't want to be here anymore." "Well, Jim left so I wanna leave too." And so begins the ghost town effect. The 2000 people who were looking up to Susie Q and Jim for guidance are now out of luck.

Well, couldn't they add that commander onto their friend list or join their guild to see when they're online again? Maybe they're just not running Istan as much anymore and running something else in a different map? Again, I bet (coming from all the complaints in this thread) that some people will leave or quit. Kitten, I took a break after Ep. 3 came out because I didn't like Joko's death. But GW2 is a casual game and doesn't punish you for leaving.

The only question is, "why should I come back?" Well there's always the chance a new "meta, almighty" gold-farming map will be developed and shipped (likely) and people will want to see what's new to do and who all they can hang out with. But some people just leave entirely and you never see them again. But also new people join the game all the time that you can make new friends with. It probably sounds poignant, but that's the MMO life.

[Corrinthia.3690]

ArenaNet for GW2 continues to be the one MMO that thinks the farming of anything is bad, and I don't understand why.

I began farming Istan for two reasons: I needed trophies for a legendary, and content drought. I could've gone to farm SilverWastes until my eyes bled like I'd done before, but Istan provided a fresh opportunity that I hadn't done before. For the first time in months, I had fun playing GW2. Loads of fun. Buckets of fun. I met people, we chatted, made friends, helped each other with things outside of Istan... In other words, I came for the trophies and something to do, but I stayed for the regulars who showed up and made this game fun again. Anet, you need to understand something: MANY PEOPLE LOVE TO FARM. I love to put on some music, PvE for hours while chatting it up with familiar faces and working towards common goals. Without Istan, I'm back to having zip all to do in this game aside from roll yet another character, my weekly lvl 10 key, and run around in Silverwastes, the ONE MAP YOU REFUSE TO TOUCH as if it's been made by the gods themselves and is sacred.

Okay, I will say that yes, getting those trophy shipments in Istan may be a touch on the lucrative side. Perhaps you should look at scaling back the amount of magic you get from each box instead of getting rid of the ability to get the boxes. This way, you don't kill the farm that many people are enjoying but still find balance.

Please, as a farmer who loves GW2, loves pve content, loves farms where you can met regulars and talk to them every day, like Cheers, don't destroy the Istan community.

If you are dead set on this, then please look at the state of your Meta events in game. They are all on the same friggan timers meaning you have to choose which to do at :45 and leaving the rest of the time to sitting around with a choya up your bum. People like the farm in Istan because it flows from one event to the other, giving players what they want: something to do.

Many of my friends have left the game because there are too many issues with the lack of repeatable content. Istan offered repeatable content which in turn built a COMMUNITY. Your other meta events aren't dead because of Istan, they are dead because they offer little to no incentive to do them. Killing Istan will not change this participation issue. Many of us will go back to sidelining GW2 in between content releases or standing around in Divinity's Reach with choya up our bum shrugging at each other when we ask what the other wants to do.

I can't stress enough how much I love this game, its story and its player base, but I also get so frustrated how you are constantly trying to fix things that aren't broken while leaving broken things as "working as intended" for five years.

~Jhoryn The Dreamer *hugs to all my Istan frens**

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

I say nerf it. Why because you nerfed everything else so this should not be an exception. If you dont then bring back the auric basin multimap.

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

@"Okami Amaterasu.9237" said:Well, couldn't they add that commander onto their friend list or join their guild to see when they're online again? Maybe they're just not running Istan as much anymore and running something else in a different map? Again, I bet (coming from all the complaints in this thread) that some people will leave or quit. Kitten, I took a break after Ep. 3 came out because I didn't like Joko's death. But GW2 is a casual game and doesn't punish you for leaving.

The only question is, "why should I come back?" Well there's always the chance a new "meta, almighty" gold-farming map will be developed and shipped (likely) and people will want to see what's new to do and who all they can hang out with. But some people just leave entirely and you never see them again. But also new people join the game all the time that you can make new friends with. It probably sounds poignant, but that's the MMO life.

I mean yeah, it is the MMO life. But that's the whole point of GW2. It's not supposed to be this way, not here. This is a franchise that is quite hellbent on breaking the status quo and emphasizing QoL over everything else.

This step is a shot in the foot for the QoL of the lower-experienced players who were using Istan to get a foot in the door.

[Gustaff.6581]

They could implement this for all maps, so you can give more map diversity to players, rather thn only playing in a single map.

Also, POF metas need better rewards, like mouth of torment and the domain of vabbi meta.

[LucianDK.8615]

Doesnt change the fact that it gave too much loot. And the fact that people went to this lenght to milk it only proves that it was the right decision to nerf it.

[Obtena.7952]

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Yeah I don't get your response at all to what I said. Simply put, what you presented isn't a concern ... there has ALWAYS been a zerg farm in this game. The only thing that changes is where it goes.

Let me put it more plainly then. The people farming Istan are not a "zerg" in the mindless sense we've been using it in.

People uniquely went to it and not other farms because of its social aspects and teamwork requirements. It's those 2000 you'll need to address.

That makes no sense ... you're going to try to argue that Istan farm has something unique about it's social aspects and teamwork that differentiates it from other ways to mass farm in the past? OK ... go for it then ... What exactly are those unique somethings that makes Istan different from Silverwastes for example?

Because the fix here isn't to leave Istan alone. The fix here is to take that magic pixie dust that makes Istan so unique from all other mass farm events and spread it around ...

So you let us know what those unique things are, convince us that other spots doesn't have those things and then maybe your position will make sense and be compelling to Anet to do something more in all areas of the game.

First of all, it makes sense to understand that Istan, even at max efficiency, and hitting all 8 GH events in a cycle, is less profitable than Silverwastes. It therefore stands to reason that there is a non-monetary reason to be in Istan instead of SW.

Wait hold on ... so how does your claim that nerfing rewards in an area will make people quit if they aren't going there for the superior rewards in the first place? That makes no sense. If what you say is true, Anet nerfing rewards in that area shouldn't matter to people that play in less profitable areas of the game than Silverwastes.

I'm going to put this forward ... it's NOT the superior social interact and teamwork that drives people to Istan over other farming areas ... it's the complete LACK of it because anything where people can mindlessly farm loot is always preferred over places where it's hard or there is events dependent on each other. The only thing you need to do to get full rewards in Istan is show up on time, follow the commander and tag mobs while maintaining verticality. There is absolutely no mechanics going on there like there is in Silverwastes.