Warclaw should have 1 HP and 1 dodge

[Strider Pj.2193]

@derd.6413 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Duckota.4769 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@tobin.6754 said:

@derd.6413 said:

i never said roaming is a waste of time (you do you and anjoy yourself) but whenever i'm trying to get back to my zerg and some rando(s) show up forcing me to fight them despite me not being interested in doing so and with very little chance to avoid it is a waste of

my

time.

Whenever I'm trying to take a camp, and enemy zerg show up forcing me to fight despite me not being interested in doing so and very little chance to avoid it is a waste "my" time.

true, i wonder if anet could make those encounters engaging for roamers but i don't see how. (maybe allow roamers to track a zerg or something idk) but if anet implements such a feature i won't complain that it allows roamers to more easily avoid zergs.

i probably complain about other things but not that

I don't want to avoid you guys though. I just want you guys to stop trying to find excuses and reasons its okay to avoid me as a roamer. If I'm out of position or not paying attention I want you guys to run me over. I deserve to get ran over for mistakes I made to end up where I was. If only we could apply that logic to both sides of the coin.

the issue is that for a zergling to get from spawn back into position is sometimes a 10 minute walk.

But if their Zerg build is so appropriate, why are they dying to the other Zerg when the rest of their group is still fighting?

Especially if it’s ‘a 10 minute walk’. Lol...

I really hope the hyperbole is real here about the 10 Minutes,,,,

ppl are gonna die in a zerg v zerg sometimes they just get unlucky or make a mistake

and yes, 10 minutes is hyperbole but the reality is that it does take a while to get back into position

But they are the only person running back?

Been there, done that. The norm for successful groups was waiting for 3-4 people to run together. It’s always been more effective.

For now, the mount helps.

Just remember, like in any arms race, adjustments will happen.

[tobin.6754]

@derd.6413 said:the issue is that for a zergling to get from spawn back into position is sometimes a 10 minute walk.

When you're down, just stay put. If your side win, they will res you. If they lose, then you can all run back as a blobs together.

If you don't want long run back, just stick to eb. Most of the fights are around SM.

Get on zerg build, tank up, stick to tag. Learn to position, this is key. And you wont die by yourself.

[devastoscz.9851]

@Pache.9406 said:Seems to me like you suck at this game. And you have to face reality now, that you can't gank better players, and have to either face them on a real fight, or finally get good at the game, stop them from escaping, and earn the kill for the first time in your life. Stay salty!

If they were better players they wouldnt die.

@kiranslee.4829 said:Why would you do that ? As long time roamer , i think this was best update for those who wish to avoid 1v1 fights so far. As roamer, do you really feel that good killing blob build players trying to catch up with their blob ? IS your fun making videos of 1vx babies ?Roaming is not spawn camping staff eles/revs trying to run to their tag. Its called ganking or lame , chose one. In case you still wish to farm enemy that cant really defend itself vs your roaming build, there is great zone for that , its called Cursed shore in pve. Mobs there have same chance to fight as blobers you try to gank.Mounts are shaking a bit meta, they leave space for new tactics and change of pace. I give it that they still have mechanical issues but those can be fixed, what i suggest you to do, change ur attitude. Roaming is not dead, but skilless ganking is affected , and its a great thing.

Yeah... I killed everything in a camp, and im capping it, a necro comes bounding in on his mount, contests forever because I can't catch him on foot and i cant dismount him on my mount. Excellent gameplay.

@Curennos.9307 said:I am very confused. Perhaps someone can explain to me why 'haha now people don't have to fight you if they don't want to' etc is something that is...actually being said? I was under the impression that WvW was a PvP zone.

Further, I don't make a bunker build and then complain that I can't kill anyone, or make a glass cannon build and start whining that I die faster than bunkers. If I played WvW (I don't....been in there maybe a total of 5min - considering getting into it, but can't for the time being) it sounds foolish to make a build that's strongest in group play and then complain when that build is caught out of group fights and killed by the folks who build for something other than group play. I don't really see the soloers building for 1v(x) builds and complaining that they get rekt in group play or get....kicked or w/e would happen. At least, those posts seem to pop up far less than the other type. They just don't go into groups if building for more solo-oriented stuff, and folks who build for group play can die to them. And builds having weaknesses, or PvP happening in a pvp zone, is...bad?

Help

Thing is those built for zergs, group play no longer die to those in dueling builds because they can just avoid them with the mounts. Hence the complaints.

Roaming/Havoc is BASED off of small encounters, whether you're fighting for an objective or not. Some people indiscriminately use ganking like its some sort of sin. Its an important part of the game to keep people from returning to their zergs, its an important part of the game to keep people from running supplies.

[derd.6413]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Duckota.4769 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@tobin.6754 said:

@derd.6413 said:

i never said roaming is a waste of time (you do you and anjoy yourself) but whenever i'm trying to get back to my zerg and some rando(s) show up forcing me to fight them despite me not being interested in doing so and with very little chance to avoid it is a waste of

my

time.

Whenever I'm trying to take a camp, and enemy zerg show up forcing me to fight despite me not being interested in doing so and very little chance to avoid it is a waste "my" time.

true, i wonder if anet could make those encounters engaging for roamers but i don't see how. (maybe allow roamers to track a zerg or something idk) but if anet implements such a feature i won't complain that it allows roamers to more easily avoid zergs.

i probably complain about other things but not that

I don't want to avoid you guys though. I just want you guys to stop trying to find excuses and reasons its okay to avoid me as a roamer. If I'm out of position or not paying attention I want you guys to run me over. I deserve to get ran over for mistakes I made to end up where I was. If only we could apply that logic to both sides of the coin.

the issue is that for a zergling to get from spawn back into position is sometimes a 10 minute walk.

But if their Zerg build is so appropriate, why are they dying to the other Zerg when the rest of their group is still fighting?

Especially if it’s ‘a 10 minute walk’. Lol...

I really hope the hyperbole is real here about the 10 Minutes,,,,

ppl are gonna die in a zerg v zerg sometimes they just get unlucky or make a mistake

and yes, 10 minutes is hyperbole but the reality is that it does take a while to get back into position

But they are the only person running back?

Been there, done that. The norm for successful groups was waiting for 3-4 people to run together. It’s always been more effective.

random ppl don't regroup, i hate it but that's just how ppl are

For now, the mount helps.

Just remember, like in any arms race, adjustments will happen.

i'm fin with that aslong as they don't do somethin silly, like reducing the mount to 1hp

@tobin.6754 said:

@derd.6413 said:the issue is that for a zergling to get from spawn back into position is sometimes a 10 minute walk.

When you're down, just stay put. If your side win, they will res you. If they lose, then you can all run back as a blobs together.

If you don't want long run back, just stick to eb. Most of the fights are around SM.

Get on zerg build, tank up, stick to tag. Learn to position, this is key. And you wont die by yourself.

i wish that'd work. but not on my server 80% of the time

[Strider Pj.2193]

@derd.6413

I hear you on the regroup. If they don’t, honestly, if they are running across the map they deserve to get picked off...

And the com doesn’t help if he isn’t telling people to group up.

And they aren’t helping if they aren’t hearing it in voice coms.

Kitten, i know you aren’t asking for more, (nor that you necessarily are the target of this next comment) but what will the next crutch be that people will ask for?

[derd.6413]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:@"derd.6413"

I hear you on the regroup. If they don’t, honestly, if they are running across the map they deserve to get picked off...

And the com doesn’t help if he isn’t telling people to group up.

And they aren’t helping if they aren’t hearing it in voice coms.if the commander is even using voice comKitten, i know you aren’t asking for more, (nor that you necessarily are the target of this next comment) but what will the next crutch be that people will ask for?

don't get me wrong, i'm all for adding counters to mounts, it's just the "roaming dead cuz i can't fight zerglings, delit mount" that i take issue with

[Strider Pj.2193]

@derd.6413 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:@derd.6413

I hear you on the regroup. If they don’t, honestly, if they are running across the map they deserve to get picked off...

And the com doesn’t help if he isn’t telling people to group up.

And they aren’t helping if they aren’t hearing it in voice coms.if the commander is even using voice com

Wow.. even our pugmanders use voice.

Kitten, i know you aren’t asking for more, (nor that you necessarily are the target of this next comment) but what will the next crutch be that people will ask for?

don't get me wrong, i'm all for adding counters to mounts, it's just the "roaming dead cuz i can't fight zerglings, delit mount" that i take issue with

Not in favor of spawn camping (which should only happen to people who don’t pay attention), but protecting people running across the map because they can’t be bothered to think ahead... that is what I have a problem with. Mount or no mount.

[derd.6413]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:@derd.6413

I hear you on the regroup. If they don’t, honestly, if they are running across the map they deserve to get picked off...

And the com doesn’t help if he isn’t telling people to group up.

And they aren’t helping if they aren’t hearing it in voice coms.if the commander is even using voice com

Wow.. even our pugmanders use voice.i'm assuming that the commanders that do use voice chat regularly just don't like playing with randoms

Kitten, i know you aren’t asking for more, (nor that you necessarily are the target of this next comment) but what will the next crutch be that people will ask for?

don't get me wrong, i'm all for adding counters to mounts, it's just the "roaming dead cuz i can't fight zerglings, delit mount" that i take issue with

Not in favor of spawn camping (which should only happen to people who don’t pay attention), but protecting people running across the map because they can’t be bothered to think ahead... that is what I have a problem with. Mount or no mount.

fair point but i do think you could atleast make it more engaging and "fun" for both sides with mounts. (maybe add some traps or tricks) play around with the concept a bit instead of "delit mount" (which is 99% of the complaints against mounts RN) before atleast trying to change your tactics and adapt to change. (which i doubt even half of the complainers has done)

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:You could also just treat the warclaw as an expendable resource...

It can't be that hard to make it so the player has to pay a few gold to get a new one if they get theirs destroyed.

I would love this, I'd kill mounts just for the salt then xD

[DemonSeed.3528]

We'll get teleport to WvW Commander, thus rendering mounts obsolete. It could happen you know. How about that bubble you see on dolyaks for the player? Maybe something in the specializations menu that players can select to perform specific tasks like auto defense - it will apply npc ai to the players character so they just need to be involved in the character movement. The game will double down into the direction of even more passives and get out of jail free cards. How about a break bar for every player. Maybe they'll ask for flying.Ok this one might be hilarious, but they could get a new skill called "burrow" where they can just bury themselves to hide and avoid fighting.

[tobin.6754]

@derd.6413 said:

i wish that'd work. but not on my server 80% of the time

Maybe consider transferring to a more populated server?

[zinkz.7045]

@"Strages.2950" said:Some people indiscriminately use ganking like its some sort of sin. Its an important part of the game to keep people from returning to their zergs, its an important part of the game to keep people from running supplies.

It isn't important in the slightest because the game mode is a joke as a competition and you know the result of most matches before they even start, your actions will make no noticeable difference to the result. Which is why most players who aren't new don't really give a toss about "winning" beyond who they may face next week, which in some cases means deliberately losing,

[derd.6413]

@tobin.6754 said:

@derd.6413 said:

i wish that'd work. but not on my server 80% of the time

Maybe consider transfer to a more populated server?

lol, assuming i have money for that.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Spartacus.3192" said:

1. 6K HP
2. 2 dodges only
3. 1 stack of stability (10 min duration) applied when you mount up only.

The stability will help you survive the first hard CC but is only applied once when you mount up. If you get CC the stability is removed and you get put into combat. You will need to dismount, get out of combat and re mount to get the stability again.

I question whether there would be any point in the stability as you could keep 3 dodges instead for the same effect, while adding CC capability. The dodge is quite literally your "stability" when it comes to evading an attack.

I would say this in my final analysis of the mount changes that I would want to see but will probably never happen:

• Reduce hp to 7128. Why 7128? For the same reason it has 10972 now. Because kitten reasons.
• Still 3 dodges.
• Fixed out of combat movement speed of ~490, no increase/reduction in territories (this is right between current speeds. I honestly just assume everyone will have the mandatory mount now so is no longer concerned with running hardcap)
• Fixed in combat movement speed of 400 (this is still faster than a runner, but noticably slower than current combat speeds)
• If CCd with knockback, pull or stun, player is stunned and dismounted on the spot
• Skill 1 dismounts instead of stomps
• Skill 3 no longer damages doors and can instead attach a chain to nearby catapults or rams and drag them along (very slow with 1 mount, max 3 mounts pulling the same siege). Ok this one is a funny fantasy

[derd.6413]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Spartacus.3192" said:

1. 6K HP
2. 2 dodges only
3. 1 stack of stability (10 min duration) applied when you mount up only.

The stability will help you survive the first hard CC but is only applied once when you mount up. If you get CC the stability is removed and you get put into combat. You will need to dismount, get out of combat and re mount to get the stability again.

I question whether there would be any point in the stability as you could keep 3 dodges instead for the same effect, while adding CC capability. The dodge is quite literally your "stability" when it comes to evading an attack.

I would say this in my final analysis of the mount changes that I would want to see but will probably never happen:

• Reduce hp to 7128. Why 7128? For the same reason it has 10972 now.
  Because kitten reasons
  .
• Still 3 dodges.
• Fixed out of combat movement speed of ~490, no increase/reduction in territories (this is right between current speeds. I honestly just assume everyone will have the mandatory mount now so is no longer concerned with running hardcap)
• Fixed in combat movement speed of 400 (this is still faster than a runner, but noticably slower than current combat speeds)
• If CCd with knockback or pull, player is stunned and dismounted on the spot
• Skill 1 dismounts instead of stomps
• Skill 3 no longer damages doors and can instead attach a chain to nearby catapults or rams and drag them along (very slow with 1 mount, max 3 mounts pulling the same siege).
  Ok this one is a funny fantasy

that last one sounds interesting. (perhaps next mount for max profits)

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I can understand how if zerging is all ur interested in getting engaged on the way to ur Zerg can be frustrating and annoying for sure but I think what the complaints are focused around is a open map pvp mode with multiple playstyles(reason why wvw play the mode) gets streamlined to almost the point where it’s just a Zerg mode which is definitely detrimental to wvw. Just as I can be annoying to u to be engaged it’s anoying for them to have their ability to engage almost fully removed. Also stopping zergers from reaching their fight can be helpful to their server as well. This is why I think warclaw shoulda been a mobility tool only and if in certain radius to enemy dismount should occur or atleast some reliable quick way to dismount a player if in radius of them,this would alleviate the long travels but not ALMOST delete certain playstyles.

[derd.6413]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I can understand how if zerging is all ur interested in getting engaged on the way to ur Zerg can be frustrating and annoying for sure but I think what the complaints are focused around is a open map pvp mode with multiple playstyles(reason why wvw play the mode) gets streamlined to almost the point where it’s just a Zerg mode which is definitely detrimental to wvw. Just as I can be annoying to u to be engaged it’s anoying for them to have their ability to engage almost fully removed. Also stopping zergers from reaching their fight can be helpful to their server as well. This is why I think warclaw shoulda been a mobility tool only and if in certain radius to enemy dismount should occur or atleast some reliable quick way to dismount a player if in radius of them,this would alleviate the long travels but not ALMOST delete certain playstyles.

i disagree mostly because i think that they could make being engaged more interesting and engaging for both sides with the mount.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I hear u but if it was more interesting and engaging to catch u on route to Zerg Ud be less inclined to be annoyed by it?

[DemonSeed.3528]

I think what most people are not realizing that people getting intercepted never affected zerging in the long run - it still continues as is, unabated. However in our current condition this has affected other people's playstyles almost completely. Now think about that for a moment.

[Obtena.7952]

@witcher.3197 said:This would solve as many issues as possible without straightup removing the warclaw from WvW (which I'd prefer, but I know is unlikely).

Would it help players move accross the map? Yes.

Would it help players avoid combat in a PvP gamemode, killing certain playstyles such as roaming? No.

Would it curb stealth one shot builds? Yes, because they'd have to reveal themselves to dimount the target.

Would players get dismounted by everything? No, there's still one dodge to get you past hostile mobs and other small obstacles.

Maybe reduce mount speed slightly as well. Thoughts?

I guess you are assuming that your ideas about what the warclaw accomplishes are the ones that matter to Anet? Maybe Anet wants it to help players avoid combat in WvW.

What I think is that if Warclaw isn't the direction they want it to go, we know they will fix it. I think the important thing is to discuss WHY these statements are important to WvW and not assume that Warclaw somehow is a mistake on some of them.

[devastoscz.9851]

@zinkz.7045 said:

@"Strages.2950" said:Some people indiscriminately use ganking like its some sort of sin. Its an important part of the game to keep people from returning to their zergs, its an important part of the game to keep people from running supplies.

It isn't important in the slightest because the game mode is a joke as a competition and you know the result of most matches before they even start, your actions will make no noticeable difference to the result. Which is why most players who aren't new don't really give a toss about "winning" beyond who they may face next week, which in some cases means deliberately losing,

1. I never said anything about score. If you think the only reason to get supply or return to a zerg is score and "winning" you either haven't spent enough time in the game mode or you can't see past the immediate obvious. Let me enlighten you: If I cut people off from getting back to the zerg, my friends in the zerg have an easier fight. Fun for them, fun for me. If I cut off the supplies those people bring, the enemy can't repair walls, build siege, hence server's players can force a fight and not stand outside being pelted by arrow carts, cannons, mortars etc. Its not about the score, its about the immediate engagements, and how favorable they become to my team. I can't believe I have to explain that.

2. If the game mode is a joke to you, why are you even in the forums discussing any of this. It blows my mind how people can indiscriminately shit all over a game mode and expect their opinions on what to do with it to be taken seriously at all.

[DemonSeed.3528]

A clothesline or tether trap would be kind of hilarious.

[Loading.4503]

I feel like i just spent the last 15 minutes reading...

Were all gonna go to the carnival and have fun and

Person 1 - imma go on the ferris wheelPerson 2 - imma go in the fun housePerson 3 - nope thats not how you carnival, you have to eat popcorn and throw balls at milk jugsPerson 1 - no youre carnivaling wrong, you have to ride on ridesPerson 2 - but everyone else is going into the fun house so i gotta go there too

In the end youre at the carnival to enjoy it however you want...

[Jaruselka.5943]

Anet should include cool new traps like pits, snares, deadfalls etc that target mounts exclusively. It would be fun to lure the kitty-calvary into some spike pits for insta downs.

One can dream...

[derd.6413]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I hear u but if it was more interesting and engaging to catch u on route to Zerg Ud be less inclined to be annoyed by it?

depending on the implementation, yes. if they'd make escaping from a roamer more interesting and engaging yes.