Stop Punishing Defenders

[L A T I O N.8923]

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:What are defenders even defending? Winning means nothing. Is there hidden treasure in there that I didn't find yet?

The point of defending is for the sake that someone wants to take it. Objectives are the focus of the fights. And I say this as a havoc and roamer. Defending used to be a bigger thing but as there is less and less chance to defend then whats the point. It was already easier as havoc to attack, this just makes it more so.

Isn't the whole point of havoc to constantly pressure enemy objectives/supplies with small amount of people, regardless of you being attacked or not?

Used to be. These days it feels like the role of Havoc is to get run over by zergs on warclaws and AoEed to death in seconds.

Rip havock ~sep17

[Sleepwalker.1398]

@fewfield.7802 said:Dear all the defenders (siege lover)

Please get good and learn to fight properly.The fun part of wvw is large scale pvp.Those sieges and facilities have spoiled you too much.

Dear all the attackers (fight guilds that don't want to fight each other but stack 1 server)

Please get good and maybe come fight us wearing something other than Minstrels, Celestial or trailblazers.Those gears have spoiled you too much.

[Zexanima.7851]

Can't we all just get along and meet in the open field and kill each other like civilized gamers?

[steki.1478]

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:

@fewfield.7802 said:Dear all the defenders (siege lover)

Please get good and learn to fight properly.The fun part of wvw is large scale pvp.Those sieges and facilities have spoiled you too much.

Dear all the attackers (fight guilds that don't want to fight each other but stack 1 server)

Please get good and maybe come fight us wearing something other than Minstrels, Celestial or trailblazers.Those gears have spoiled you too much.

Majority of the squads are using berserker/marauder mix nowadays...

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:No, it's fine. Proper Borderland defending is not just about hiding in a keep and pretending to be useful. That should never be rewarded. It's also about backcapping , denying supply, and the last is what a lot of people miss-- pressuring the enemy borderlands by occasionally damaging undefended walls/gates of structures and papering the occasional upgraded structure.

Properly havoc play is already rewarded. Though I would say the act of killing players seems to give so little participation. Now that should be changed. I think mounts still need an extra nerf as that has also led to issues.

Simply put, literally every borderland defender I know has zero trouble keeping up partcipation. And from experience, it's certainly better than running with an incompetent commander too.

Case in point, last night my server took most of one server's entire borderland and then EB. Yet that server was able to keep up their score by simply going to another borderland and taking undefended stuff while backcapping their own. They most likely did not have over 10 people. OTOH, when my server is being faced with the exact same circumstances, they just run outside EB spawn nonstop to get spawn camped, thus accomplishing little with more numbers. How can 10 people accomplish that much more than 20 and most likely have full participation while the later group has none? It's just about playing smart and yes I understand that's a foreign concept in this game, but still, it gets results.

Tl;dr Stop worshiping t3 structures. You're literally killing the game.EDIT: I just realized I taught people how to PPT. #Feelsbadman

Agreed and well put. Unfortunately, players like that are becoming less and less common thanks largely in part to the passive effects of Tactics.

Yep. People were afraid after those awful HoT changes that defense would be dumbed down. Looks like it happened. I mean, if you're too afraid to leave a structure on your own, bring a buddy! =p

I used to solo towers on my own but after this fortified garbage came on, I don't even bother. Sometimes we'll be like 3v6 and we have the outnumbered buff above us facing an upgraded structure and all they do is get on siege. Fun gameplay. As if only outnumbered people hump siege LOL.

I mean, I don't really get a lot of the complaints. Yea balance is garbage and it's no fun one you're outnumbered 10:1. But stuff like getting partcipation? /shrugs. If you want some extra gold, play a fractal or two. It'll give more than wvw gets in a week-- although that's another problem. Maybe they were right that people were actually really into pve?

Nope, they're really into community, teamwork and helping friends. They might not all be lightning-fingered teenagers - this game is filled with one-shot builds, why should some child, retiree or somehow less reactive person be expected to compete at that level? Let's say there's six retirees. They're still all going to get pulverised by three great players in open field - but they can contribute to their team effort by firing siege at you from a wall. THAT is why they stay inside objectives.

Telling players how to play isn't going to work, this mode was created as a sandbox. They can do what they want within the rules.

Lol, sorry, I don't buy that. My server has plenty of older players (and yes, they are borderland defenders). There's also literally a guild called [old] and they do a better job havocing over people probably half their age just because they play smarter. Also, unlike some youngsters, they also know that dying in a game does not mean you die irl and don't hide in structures.

Yea sure, a lot of them might not have the lightning reflexes of a young person and will lose some fights, but come on, this is Gw2, not Counterstrike, not Starcraft, you don't need it unless you duel all the time. If anything, these are who mounts help the most lol. And honestly a lot of hot shot roamers overrate themselves too highly.

And you can still do whatever you want, but ignoring how game mechanics work is going to lead you to a bad time. Adapt.

TACO fought [old] with HELL a few weeks back. Those were some fun skirmishes. It was nice to fight against tactics and not just bigger blob wins.

They knew how to split up and make us choose what to defend. I fought one of them 1v1 in Fire Keep and it was clear he didn't expect to win but just delay me, and he did it well.

[aspirine.5839]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:No, it's fine. Proper Borderland defending is not just about hiding in a keep and pretending to be useful. That should never be rewarded. It's also about backcapping , denying supply, and the last is what a lot of people miss-- pressuring the enemy borderlands by occasionally damaging undefended walls/gates of structures and papering the occasional upgraded structure.

Properly havoc play is already rewarded. Though I would say the act of killing players seems to give so little participation. Now that should be changed. I think mounts still need an extra nerf as that has also led to issues.

Simply put, literally every borderland defender I know has zero trouble keeping up partcipation. And from experience, it's certainly better than running with an incompetent commander too.

Case in point, last night my server took most of one server's entire borderland and then EB. Yet that server was able to keep up their score by simply going to another borderland and taking undefended stuff while backcapping their own. They most likely did not have over 10 people. OTOH, when my server is being faced with the exact same circumstances, they just run outside EB spawn nonstop to get spawn camped, thus accomplishing little with more numbers. How can 10 people accomplish that much more than 20 and most likely have full participation while the later group has none? It's just about playing smart and yes I understand that's a foreign concept in this game, but still, it gets results.

Tl;dr Stop worshiping t3 structures. You're literally killing the game.EDIT: I just realized I taught people how to PPT. #Feelsbadman

Agreed and well put. Unfortunately, players like that are becoming less and less common thanks largely in part to the passive effects of Tactics.

Yep. People were afraid after those awful HoT changes that defense would be dumbed down. Looks like it happened. I mean, if you're too afraid to leave a structure on your own, bring a buddy! =p

I used to solo towers on my own but after this fortified garbage came on, I don't even bother. Sometimes we'll be like 3v6 and we have the outnumbered buff above us facing an upgraded structure and all they do is get on siege. Fun gameplay. As if only outnumbered people hump siege LOL.

I mean, I don't really get a lot of the complaints. Yea balance is garbage and it's no fun one you're outnumbered 10:1. But stuff like getting partcipation? /shrugs. If you want some extra gold, play a fractal or two. It'll give more than wvw gets in a week-- although that's another problem. Maybe they were right that people were actually really into pve?

Nope, they're really into community, teamwork and helping friends. They might not all be lightning-fingered teenagers - this game is filled with one-shot builds, why should some child, retiree or somehow less reactive person be expected to compete at that level? Let's say there's six retirees. They're still all going to get pulverised by three great players in open field - but they can contribute to their team effort by firing siege at you from a wall. THAT is why they stay inside objectives.

Telling players how to play isn't going to work, this mode was created as a sandbox. They can do what they want within the rules.

Lol, sorry, I don't buy that. My server has plenty of older players (and yes, they are borderland defenders). There's also literally a guild called [old] and they do a better job havocing over people probably half their age just because they play smarter. Also, unlike some youngsters, they also know that dying in a game does not mean you die irl and don't hide in structures.

Yea sure, a lot of them might not have the lightning reflexes of a young person and will lose some fights, but come on, this is Gw2, not Counterstrike, not Starcraft, you don't need it unless you duel all the time. If anything, these are who mounts help the most lol. And honestly a lot of hot shot roamers overrate themselves too highly.

And you can still do whatever you want, but ignoring how game mechanics work is going to lead you to a bad time. Adapt.

Adapt or complain on the forums about OP siege and structures, hey it worked for the zerglings :)

[Svarty.8019]

@aspirine.5839 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:No, it's fine. Proper Borderland defending is not just about hiding in a keep and pretending to be useful. That should never be rewarded. It's also about backcapping , denying supply, and the last is what a lot of people miss-- pressuring the enemy borderlands by occasionally damaging undefended walls/gates of structures and papering the occasional upgraded structure.

Properly havoc play is already rewarded. Though I would say the act of killing players seems to give so little participation. Now that should be changed. I think mounts still need an extra nerf as that has also led to issues.

Simply put, literally every borderland defender I know has zero trouble keeping up partcipation. And from experience, it's certainly better than running with an incompetent commander too.

Case in point, last night my server took most of one server's entire borderland and then EB. Yet that server was able to keep up their score by simply going to another borderland and taking undefended stuff while backcapping their own. They most likely did not have over 10 people. OTOH, when my server is being faced with the exact same circumstances, they just run outside EB spawn nonstop to get spawn camped, thus accomplishing little with more numbers. How can 10 people accomplish that much more than 20 and most likely have full participation while the later group has none? It's just about playing smart and yes I understand that's a foreign concept in this game, but still, it gets results.

Tl;dr Stop worshiping t3 structures. You're literally killing the game.EDIT: I just realized I taught people how to PPT. #Feelsbadman

Agreed and well put. Unfortunately, players like that are becoming less and less common thanks largely in part to the passive effects of Tactics.

Yep. People were afraid after those awful HoT changes that defense would be dumbed down. Looks like it happened. I mean, if you're too afraid to leave a structure on your own, bring a buddy! =p

I used to solo towers on my own but after this fortified garbage came on, I don't even bother. Sometimes we'll be like 3v6 and we have the outnumbered buff above us facing an upgraded structure and all they do is get on siege. Fun gameplay. As if only outnumbered people hump siege LOL.

I mean, I don't really get a lot of the complaints. Yea balance is garbage and it's no fun one you're outnumbered 10:1. But stuff like getting partcipation? /shrugs. If you want some extra gold, play a fractal or two. It'll give more than wvw gets in a week-- although that's another problem. Maybe they were right that people were actually really into pve?

Nope, they're really into community, teamwork and helping friends. They might not all be lightning-fingered teenagers - this game is filled with one-shot builds, why should some child, retiree or somehow less reactive person be expected to compete at that level? Let's say there's six retirees. They're still all going to get pulverised by three great players in open field - but they can contribute to their team effort by firing siege at you from a wall. THAT is why they stay inside objectives.

Telling players how to play isn't going to work, this mode was created as a sandbox. They can do what they want within the rules.

Lol, sorry, I don't buy that. My server has plenty of older players (and yes, they are borderland defenders). There's also literally a guild called [old] and they do a better job havocing over people probably half their age just because they play smarter. Also, unlike some youngsters, they also know that dying in a game does not mean you die irl and don't hide in structures.

Yea sure, a lot of them might not have the lightning reflexes of a young person and will lose some fights, but come on, this is Gw2, not Counterstrike, not Starcraft, you don't need it unless you duel all the time. If anything, these are who mounts help the most lol. And honestly a lot of hot shot roamers overrate themselves too highly.

And you can still do whatever you want, but ignoring how game mechanics work is going to lead you to a bad time. Adapt.

Adapt or complain on the forums about OP siege and structures, hey it worked for the zerglings :)

Let us not forget that countless times Arenanet has changed the game to suit gankers who complained on this forum, so "it worked for the zerglings" doesn't carry any weight whatsoever. It's not even true.Regarding who's complaining, it sounds like people asking others to adapt are complaining and also asking Arenanet to change the game to suit them. AGAIN.

As for expecting people to adapt, many would rather QUIT - they enjoy defending, not dying! You can't force non-combatants to PvP, nor should you.

[aspirine.5839]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@aspirine.5839 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:No, it's fine. Proper Borderland defending is not just about hiding in a keep and pretending to be useful. That should never be rewarded. It's also about backcapping , denying supply, and the last is what a lot of people miss-- pressuring the enemy borderlands by occasionally damaging undefended walls/gates of structures and papering the occasional upgraded structure.

Properly havoc play is already rewarded. Though I would say the act of killing players seems to give so little participation. Now that should be changed. I think mounts still need an extra nerf as that has also led to issues.

Simply put, literally every borderland defender I know has zero trouble keeping up partcipation. And from experience, it's certainly better than running with an incompetent commander too.

Case in point, last night my server took most of one server's entire borderland and then EB. Yet that server was able to keep up their score by simply going to another borderland and taking undefended stuff while backcapping their own. They most likely did not have over 10 people. OTOH, when my server is being faced with the exact same circumstances, they just run outside EB spawn nonstop to get spawn camped, thus accomplishing little with more numbers. How can 10 people accomplish that much more than 20 and most likely have full participation while the later group has none? It's just about playing smart and yes I understand that's a foreign concept in this game, but still, it gets results.

Tl;dr Stop worshiping t3 structures. You're literally killing the game.EDIT: I just realized I taught people how to PPT. #Feelsbadman

Agreed and well put. Unfortunately, players like that are becoming less and less common thanks largely in part to the passive effects of Tactics.

Yep. People were afraid after those awful HoT changes that defense would be dumbed down. Looks like it happened. I mean, if you're too afraid to leave a structure on your own, bring a buddy! =p

I used to solo towers on my own but after this fortified garbage came on, I don't even bother. Sometimes we'll be like 3v6 and we have the outnumbered buff above us facing an upgraded structure and all they do is get on siege. Fun gameplay. As if only outnumbered people hump siege LOL.

I mean, I don't really get a lot of the complaints. Yea balance is garbage and it's no fun one you're outnumbered 10:1. But stuff like getting partcipation? /shrugs. If you want some extra gold, play a fractal or two. It'll give more than wvw gets in a week-- although that's another problem. Maybe they were right that people were actually really into pve?

Nope, they're really into community, teamwork and helping friends. They might not all be lightning-fingered teenagers - this game is filled with one-shot builds, why should some child, retiree or somehow less reactive person be expected to compete at that level? Let's say there's six retirees. They're still all going to get pulverised by three great players in open field - but they can contribute to their team effort by firing siege at you from a wall. THAT is why they stay inside objectives.

Telling players how to play isn't going to work, this mode was created as a sandbox. They can do what they want within the rules.

Lol, sorry, I don't buy that. My server has plenty of older players (and yes, they are borderland defenders). There's also literally a guild called [old] and they do a better job havocing over people probably half their age just because they play smarter. Also, unlike some youngsters, they also know that dying in a game does not mean you die irl and don't hide in structures.

Yea sure, a lot of them might not have the lightning reflexes of a young person and will lose some fights, but come on, this is Gw2, not Counterstrike, not Starcraft, you don't need it unless you duel all the time. If anything, these are who mounts help the most lol. And honestly a lot of hot shot roamers overrate themselves too highly.

And you can still do whatever you want, but ignoring how game mechanics work is going to lead you to a bad time. Adapt.

Adapt or complain on the forums about OP siege and structures, hey it worked for the zerglings :)

Let us not forget that countless times Arenanet has changed the game to suit gankers who complained on this forum, so "it worked for the zerglings" doesn't carry any weight whatsoever. It's not even true.Regarding who's complaining, it sounds like people asking others to adapt are complaining and also asking Arenanet to change the game to suit them. AGAIN.

As for expecting people to adapt, many would rather QUIT - they enjoy defending, not dying! You can't force non-combatants to PvP, nor should you.

Ah I have not played in a long time started again this weekend, did not know they changed it for roamers/gankers too. What did they change for them in this case?

[ArchonWing.9480]

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:No, it's fine. Proper Borderland defending is not just about hiding in a keep and pretending to be useful. That should never be rewarded. It's also about backcapping , denying supply, and the last is what a lot of people miss-- pressuring the enemy borderlands by occasionally damaging undefended walls/gates of structures and papering the occasional upgraded structure.

Properly havoc play is already rewarded. Though I would say the act of killing players seems to give so little participation. Now that should be changed. I think mounts still need an extra nerf as that has also led to issues.

Simply put, literally every borderland defender I know has zero trouble keeping up partcipation. And from experience, it's certainly better than running with an incompetent commander too.

Case in point, last night my server took most of one server's entire borderland and then EB. Yet that server was able to keep up their score by simply going to another borderland and taking undefended stuff while backcapping their own. They most likely did not have over 10 people. OTOH, when my server is being faced with the exact same circumstances, they just run outside EB spawn nonstop to get spawn camped, thus accomplishing little with more numbers. How can 10 people accomplish that much more than 20 and most likely have full participation while the later group has none? It's just about playing smart and yes I understand that's a foreign concept in this game, but still, it gets results.

Tl;dr Stop worshiping t3 structures. You're literally killing the game.EDIT: I just realized I taught people how to PPT. #Feelsbadman

Agreed and well put. Unfortunately, players like that are becoming less and less common thanks largely in part to the passive effects of Tactics.

Yep. People were afraid after those awful HoT changes that defense would be dumbed down. Looks like it happened. I mean, if you're too afraid to leave a structure on your own, bring a buddy! =p

I used to solo towers on my own but after this fortified garbage came on, I don't even bother. Sometimes we'll be like 3v6 and we have the outnumbered buff above us facing an upgraded structure and all they do is get on siege. Fun gameplay. As if only outnumbered people hump siege LOL.

I mean, I don't really get a lot of the complaints. Yea balance is garbage and it's no fun one you're outnumbered 10:1. But stuff like getting partcipation? /shrugs. If you want some extra gold, play a fractal or two. It'll give more than wvw gets in a week-- although that's another problem. Maybe they were right that people were actually really into pve?

Nope, they're really into community, teamwork and helping friends. They might not all be lightning-fingered teenagers - this game is filled with one-shot builds, why should some child, retiree or somehow less reactive person be expected to compete at that level? Let's say there's six retirees. They're still all going to get pulverised by three great players in open field - but they can contribute to their team effort by firing siege at you from a wall. THAT is why they stay inside objectives.

Telling players how to play isn't going to work, this mode was created as a sandbox. They can do what they want within the rules.

Lol, sorry, I don't buy that. My server has plenty of older players (and yes, they are borderland defenders). There's also literally a guild called [old] and they do a better job havocing over people probably half their age just because they play smarter. Also, unlike some youngsters, they also know that dying in a game does not mean you die irl and don't hide in structures.

Yea sure, a lot of them might not have the lightning reflexes of a young person and will lose some fights, but come on, this is Gw2, not Counterstrike, not Starcraft, you don't need it unless you duel all the time. If anything, these are who mounts help the most lol. And honestly a lot of hot shot roamers overrate themselves too highly.

And you can still do whatever you want, but ignoring how game mechanics work is going to lead you to a bad time. Adapt.

TACO fought [old] with HELL a few weeks back. Those were some fun skirmishes. It was nice to fight against tactics and not just bigger blob wins.

They knew how to split up and make us choose what to defend. I fought one of them 1v1 in Fire Keep and it was clear he didn't expect to win but just delay me, and he did it well.

It just shows that just because the game is played mindlessly by many, does not mean it has to be played mindless by all. ;) I don't know any borderland defender that humps siege, tbh. I certainly don't know any that can't get participation. In fact one of them taught me how to get participation in slow times.... I'd take advice from them over some random pleb that boasts about how fast they can 100-0 some uplevel.

But really, APM spammers get mocked in RTS's, much less here xD I'm just annoyed that "think of the children/elderly" got tossed around, like apparently you can't be old and game lel. Which is especially silly when you consider when the people that have been gaming since the 1980s have played the toughest (badly designed often) games. It kinda makes me laugh if I imagine what people would complain about "classic" games today... "oh no Beetles are immune to fireballs, nerf plox or I'll stop playing"

@Svarty.8019 said:

@aspirine.5839 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:No, it's fine. Proper Borderland defending is not just about hiding in a keep and pretending to be useful. That should never be rewarded. It's also about backcapping , denying supply, and the last is what a lot of people miss-- pressuring the enemy borderlands by occasionally damaging undefended walls/gates of structures and papering the occasional upgraded structure.

Properly havoc play is already rewarded. Though I would say the act of killing players seems to give so little participation. Now that should be changed. I think mounts still need an extra nerf as that has also led to issues.

Simply put, literally every borderland defender I know has zero trouble keeping up partcipation. And from experience, it's certainly better than running with an incompetent commander too.

Case in point, last night my server took most of one server's entire borderland and then EB. Yet that server was able to keep up their score by simply going to another borderland and taking undefended stuff while backcapping their own. They most likely did not have over 10 people. OTOH, when my server is being faced with the exact same circumstances, they just run outside EB spawn nonstop to get spawn camped, thus accomplishing little with more numbers. How can 10 people accomplish that much more than 20 and most likely have full participation while the later group has none? It's just about playing smart and yes I understand that's a foreign concept in this game, but still, it gets results.

Tl;dr Stop worshiping t3 structures. You're literally killing the game.EDIT: I just realized I taught people how to PPT. #Feelsbadman

Agreed and well put. Unfortunately, players like that are becoming less and less common thanks largely in part to the passive effects of Tactics.

Yep. People were afraid after those awful HoT changes that defense would be dumbed down. Looks like it happened. I mean, if you're too afraid to leave a structure on your own, bring a buddy! =p

I used to solo towers on my own but after this fortified garbage came on, I don't even bother. Sometimes we'll be like 3v6 and we have the outnumbered buff above us facing an upgraded structure and all they do is get on siege. Fun gameplay. As if only outnumbered people hump siege LOL.

I mean, I don't really get a lot of the complaints. Yea balance is garbage and it's no fun one you're outnumbered 10:1. But stuff like getting partcipation? /shrugs. If you want some extra gold, play a fractal or two. It'll give more than wvw gets in a week-- although that's another problem. Maybe they were right that people were actually really into pve?

Nope, they're really into community, teamwork and helping friends. They might not all be lightning-fingered teenagers - this game is filled with one-shot builds, why should some child, retiree or somehow less reactive person be expected to compete at that level? Let's say there's six retirees. They're still all going to get pulverised by three great players in open field - but they can contribute to their team effort by firing siege at you from a wall. THAT is why they stay inside objectives.

Telling players how to play isn't going to work, this mode was created as a sandbox. They can do what they want within the rules.

Lol, sorry, I don't buy that. My server has plenty of older players (and yes, they are borderland defenders). There's also literally a guild called [old] and they do a better job havocing over people probably half their age just because they play smarter. Also, unlike some youngsters, they also know that dying in a game does not mean you die irl and don't hide in structures.

Yea sure, a lot of them might not have the lightning reflexes of a young person and will lose some fights, but come on, this is Gw2, not Counterstrike, not Starcraft, you don't need it unless you duel all the time. If anything, these are who mounts help the most lol. And honestly a lot of hot shot roamers overrate themselves too highly.

And you can still do whatever you want, but ignoring how game mechanics work is going to lead you to a bad time. Adapt.

Adapt or complain on the forums about OP siege and structures, hey it worked for the zerglings :)

Let us not forget that countless times Arenanet has changed the game to suit gankers who complained on this forum, so "it worked for the zerglings" doesn't carry any weight whatsoever. It's not even true.Regarding who's complaining, it sounds like people asking others to adapt are complaining and also asking Arenanet to change the game to suit them. AGAIN.

As for expecting people to adapt, many would rather QUIT - they enjoy defending, not dying! You can't force non-combatants to PvP, nor should you.

Wait, so are you really saying, that we are bad people for forcing people to fight in World vs World?

If you don't want to die in a game, I don't know what to say. There's always PvE. Players can't kill you there. You can still die to enemies though.

@aspirine.5839 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:No, it's fine. Proper Borderland defending is not just about hiding in a keep and pretending to be useful. That should never be rewarded. It's also about backcapping , denying supply, and the last is what a lot of people miss-- pressuring the enemy borderlands by occasionally damaging undefended walls/gates of structures and papering the occasional upgraded structure.

Properly havoc play is already rewarded. Though I would say the act of killing players seems to give so little participation. Now that should be changed. I think mounts still need an extra nerf as that has also led to issues.

Simply put, literally every borderland defender I know has zero trouble keeping up partcipation. And from experience, it's certainly better than running with an incompetent commander too.

Case in point, last night my server took most of one server's entire borderland and then EB. Yet that server was able to keep up their score by simply going to another borderland and taking undefended stuff while backcapping their own. They most likely did not have over 10 people. OTOH, when my server is being faced with the exact same circumstances, they just run outside EB spawn nonstop to get spawn camped, thus accomplishing little with more numbers. How can 10 people accomplish that much more than 20 and most likely have full participation while the later group has none? It's just about playing smart and yes I understand that's a foreign concept in this game, but still, it gets results.

Tl;dr Stop worshiping t3 structures. You're literally killing the game.EDIT: I just realized I taught people how to PPT. #Feelsbadman

Agreed and well put. Unfortunately, players like that are becoming less and less common thanks largely in part to the passive effects of Tactics.

Yep. People were afraid after those awful HoT changes that defense would be dumbed down. Looks like it happened. I mean, if you're too afraid to leave a structure on your own, bring a buddy! =p

I used to solo towers on my own but after this fortified garbage came on, I don't even bother. Sometimes we'll be like 3v6 and we have the outnumbered buff above us facing an upgraded structure and all they do is get on siege. Fun gameplay. As if only outnumbered people hump siege LOL.

I mean, I don't really get a lot of the complaints. Yea balance is garbage and it's no fun one you're outnumbered 10:1. But stuff like getting partcipation? /shrugs. If you want some extra gold, play a fractal or two. It'll give more than wvw gets in a week-- although that's another problem. Maybe they were right that people were actually really into pve?

Nope, they're really into community, teamwork and helping friends. They might not all be lightning-fingered teenagers - this game is filled with one-shot builds, why should some child, retiree or somehow less reactive person be expected to compete at that level? Let's say there's six retirees. They're still all going to get pulverised by three great players in open field - but they can contribute to their team effort by firing siege at you from a wall. THAT is why they stay inside objectives.

Telling players how to play isn't going to work, this mode was created as a sandbox. They can do what they want within the rules.

Lol, sorry, I don't buy that. My server has plenty of older players (and yes, they are borderland defenders). There's also literally a guild called [old] and they do a better job havocing over people probably half their age just because they play smarter. Also, unlike some youngsters, they also know that dying in a game does not mean you die irl and don't hide in structures.

Yea sure, a lot of them might not have the lightning reflexes of a young person and will lose some fights, but come on, this is Gw2, not Counterstrike, not Starcraft, you don't need it unless you duel all the time. If anything, these are who mounts help the most lol. And honestly a lot of hot shot roamers overrate themselves too highly.

And you can still do whatever you want, but ignoring how game mechanics work is going to lead you to a bad time. Adapt.

Adapt or complain on the forums about OP siege and structures, hey it worked for the zerglings :)

If people can form a coherent argument, that sounds good, sure.

[Kitta.3657]

This thread is a joke. Opening with some crazy wackadoodle sense of victimhood as defenders when Anet has literally buffed defending for years to a point they NEED to nerf it to have actual balance between attack & defense. Even after this most recent change, defending still has all the advantages.

[Teratus.2859]

It should be easier to defend a location rather than take one.. although considering these locations are constantly the same it would leave an issue with strategy stagnation.

Perhaps more focus should be on defensive traps and seige rather than buffing players..Keep the attacking force guessing where defending players have hidden their traps and give defending players active control over when those traps trigger rather than have them trigger the second a single player walks into them which makes it far too easy for them to be baited with a single sacrifice.Maybe each keep should get pre placed super seige with significantly more health than normal ones so that if it becomes a problem for the attacking force they must make a joined effort to disable it before they can continue, atm it is very easy for a couple of range players to knockout defending balistas and arrowcarts due to their lowish health.. a good LB Ranger can even solo them in some situations which is a little ridiculous.

Perhaps Anet should also make it more rewarding to kill players invading their territory..Killing enemies in your territory giving a small reward increase but killing enemies in your territory during a defense event giving you a big reward increase, surely that would encourage more players to defend their keeps and forts etc.

[Emberheart.8426]

@aspirine.5839 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:No, it's fine. Proper Borderland defending is not just about hiding in a keep and pretending to be useful. That should never be rewarded. It's also about backcapping , denying supply, and the last is what a lot of people miss-- pressuring the enemy borderlands by occasionally damaging undefended walls/gates of structures and papering the occasional upgraded structure.

Properly havoc play is already rewarded. Though I would say the act of killing players seems to give so little participation. Now that should be changed. I think mounts still need an extra nerf as that has also led to issues.

Simply put, literally every borderland defender I know has zero trouble keeping up partcipation. And from experience, it's certainly better than running with an incompetent commander too.

Case in point, last night my server took most of one server's entire borderland and then EB. Yet that server was able to keep up their score by simply going to another borderland and taking undefended stuff while backcapping their own. They most likely did not have over 10 people. OTOH, when my server is being faced with the exact same circumstances, they just run outside EB spawn nonstop to get spawn camped, thus accomplishing little with more numbers. How can 10 people accomplish that much more than 20 and most likely have full participation while the later group has none? It's just about playing smart and yes I understand that's a foreign concept in this game, but still, it gets results.

Tl;dr Stop worshiping t3 structures. You're literally killing the game.EDIT: I just realized I taught people how to PPT. #Feelsbadman

Agreed and well put. Unfortunately, players like that are becoming less and less common thanks largely in part to the passive effects of Tactics.

Yep. People were afraid after those awful HoT changes that defense would be dumbed down. Looks like it happened. I mean, if you're too afraid to leave a structure on your own, bring a buddy! =p

I used to solo towers on my own but after this fortified garbage came on, I don't even bother. Sometimes we'll be like 3v6 and we have the outnumbered buff above us facing an upgraded structure and all they do is get on siege. Fun gameplay. As if only outnumbered people hump siege LOL.

I mean, I don't really get a lot of the complaints. Yea balance is garbage and it's no fun one you're outnumbered 10:1. But stuff like getting partcipation? /shrugs. If you want some extra gold, play a fractal or two. It'll give more than wvw gets in a week-- although that's another problem. Maybe they were right that people were actually really into pve?

Nope, they're really into community, teamwork and helping friends. They might not all be lightning-fingered teenagers - this game is filled with one-shot builds, why should some child, retiree or somehow less reactive person be expected to compete at that level? Let's say there's six retirees. They're still all going to get pulverised by three great players in open field - but they can contribute to their team effort by firing siege at you from a wall. THAT is why they stay inside objectives.

Telling players how to play isn't going to work, this mode was created as a sandbox. They can do what they want within the rules.

Lol, sorry, I don't buy that. My server has plenty of older players (and yes, they are borderland defenders). There's also literally a guild called [old] and they do a better job havocing over people probably half their age just because they play smarter. Also, unlike some youngsters, they also know that dying in a game does not mean you die irl and don't hide in structures.

Yea sure, a lot of them might not have the lightning reflexes of a young person and will lose some fights, but come on, this is Gw2, not Counterstrike, not Starcraft, you don't need it unless you duel all the time. If anything, these are who mounts help the most lol. And honestly a lot of hot shot roamers overrate themselves too highly.

And you can still do whatever you want, but ignoring how game mechanics work is going to lead you to a bad time. Adapt.

Adapt or complain on the forums about OP siege and structures, hey it worked for the zerglings :)

Yes, because Anet never buffed defense before. Actually, defense was buffed way more in the past than it has been nerfed. May I remind you about, T2 & T3 buffs, tactivators with invulnerable fortifications being especially egregious, siege disablers, gliders, and most recently mounts? All of these additions favor the defenders. So it was about time that the devs asked themselves if they wanted to keep perpetually buffing defense or if they wanted to scale it back a little.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

Putting all those things solely in the defense advantage column is about as funny as saying yesterday's patch would promote more small scale.

Most of those items work both ways and of the ones that don't they hardly ever work in favor of defenders facing blobs looking for fights.

[aspirine.5839]

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@aspirine.5839 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:No, it's fine. Proper Borderland defending is not just about hiding in a keep and pretending to be useful. That should never be rewarded. It's also about backcapping , denying supply, and the last is what a lot of people miss-- pressuring the enemy borderlands by occasionally damaging undefended walls/gates of structures and papering the occasional upgraded structure.

Properly havoc play is already rewarded. Though I would say the act of killing players seems to give so little participation. Now that should be changed. I think mounts still need an extra nerf as that has also led to issues.

Simply put, literally every borderland defender I know has zero trouble keeping up partcipation. And from experience, it's certainly better than running with an incompetent commander too.

Case in point, last night my server took most of one server's entire borderland and then EB. Yet that server was able to keep up their score by simply going to another borderland and taking undefended stuff while backcapping their own. They most likely did not have over 10 people. OTOH, when my server is being faced with the exact same circumstances, they just run outside EB spawn nonstop to get spawn camped, thus accomplishing little with more numbers. How can 10 people accomplish that much more than 20 and most likely have full participation while the later group has none? It's just about playing smart and yes I understand that's a foreign concept in this game, but still, it gets results.

Tl;dr Stop worshiping t3 structures. You're literally killing the game.EDIT: I just realized I taught people how to PPT. #Feelsbadman

Agreed and well put. Unfortunately, players like that are becoming less and less common thanks largely in part to the passive effects of Tactics.

Yep. People were afraid after those awful HoT changes that defense would be dumbed down. Looks like it happened. I mean, if you're too afraid to leave a structure on your own, bring a buddy! =p

I used to solo towers on my own but after this fortified garbage came on, I don't even bother. Sometimes we'll be like 3v6 and we have the outnumbered buff above us facing an upgraded structure and all they do is get on siege. Fun gameplay. As if only outnumbered people hump siege LOL.

I mean, I don't really get a lot of the complaints. Yea balance is garbage and it's no fun one you're outnumbered 10:1. But stuff like getting partcipation? /shrugs. If you want some extra gold, play a fractal or two. It'll give more than wvw gets in a week-- although that's another problem. Maybe they were right that people were actually really into pve?

Nope, they're really into community, teamwork and helping friends. They might not all be lightning-fingered teenagers - this game is filled with one-shot builds, why should some child, retiree or somehow less reactive person be expected to compete at that level? Let's say there's six retirees. They're still all going to get pulverised by three great players in open field - but they can contribute to their team effort by firing siege at you from a wall. THAT is why they stay inside objectives.

Telling players how to play isn't going to work, this mode was created as a sandbox. They can do what they want within the rules.

Lol, sorry, I don't buy that. My server has plenty of older players (and yes, they are borderland defenders). There's also literally a guild called [old] and they do a better job havocing over people probably half their age just because they play smarter. Also, unlike some youngsters, they also know that dying in a game does not mean you die irl and don't hide in structures.

Yea sure, a lot of them might not have the lightning reflexes of a young person and will lose some fights, but come on, this is Gw2, not Counterstrike, not Starcraft, you don't need it unless you duel all the time. If anything, these are who mounts help the most lol. And honestly a lot of hot shot roamers overrate themselves too highly.

And you can still do whatever you want, but ignoring how game mechanics work is going to lead you to a bad time. Adapt.

Adapt or complain on the forums about OP siege and structures, hey it worked for the zerglings :)

Yes, because Anet never buffed defense before. Actually, defense was buffed way more in the past than it has been nerfed. May I remind you about, T2 & T3 buffs, tactivators with invulnerable fortifications being especially egregious, siege disablers, gliders, and most recently mounts? All of these additions favor the defenders. So it was about time that the devs asked themselves if they wanted to keep perpetually buffing defense or if they wanted to scale it back a little.

Meh, sounds like some of those things also help attackers. Mounts? Attackers can also use them, why is this exclusive to defenders? Siege disablers? Attackers also use these before, same for gliders. Tactivators indeed are a big buff for defenders. Lets not forget bubbles, that buff attackers way more than defenders, and this was not intended either.

[Emberheart.8426]

@aspirine.5839 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@aspirine.5839 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:No, it's fine. Proper Borderland defending is not just about hiding in a keep and pretending to be useful. That should never be rewarded. It's also about backcapping , denying supply, and the last is what a lot of people miss-- pressuring the enemy borderlands by occasionally damaging undefended walls/gates of structures and papering the occasional upgraded structure.

Properly havoc play is already rewarded. Though I would say the act of killing players seems to give so little participation. Now that should be changed. I think mounts still need an extra nerf as that has also led to issues.

Simply put, literally every borderland defender I know has zero trouble keeping up partcipation. And from experience, it's certainly better than running with an incompetent commander too.

Case in point, last night my server took most of one server's entire borderland and then EB. Yet that server was able to keep up their score by simply going to another borderland and taking undefended stuff while backcapping their own. They most likely did not have over 10 people. OTOH, when my server is being faced with the exact same circumstances, they just run outside EB spawn nonstop to get spawn camped, thus accomplishing little with more numbers. How can 10 people accomplish that much more than 20 and most likely have full participation while the later group has none? It's just about playing smart and yes I understand that's a foreign concept in this game, but still, it gets results.

Tl;dr Stop worshiping t3 structures. You're literally killing the game.EDIT: I just realized I taught people how to PPT. #Feelsbadman

Agreed and well put. Unfortunately, players like that are becoming less and less common thanks largely in part to the passive effects of Tactics.

Yep. People were afraid after those awful HoT changes that defense would be dumbed down. Looks like it happened. I mean, if you're too afraid to leave a structure on your own, bring a buddy! =p

I used to solo towers on my own but after this fortified garbage came on, I don't even bother. Sometimes we'll be like 3v6 and we have the outnumbered buff above us facing an upgraded structure and all they do is get on siege. Fun gameplay. As if only outnumbered people hump siege LOL.

I mean, I don't really get a lot of the complaints. Yea balance is garbage and it's no fun one you're outnumbered 10:1. But stuff like getting partcipation? /shrugs. If you want some extra gold, play a fractal or two. It'll give more than wvw gets in a week-- although that's another problem. Maybe they were right that people were actually really into pve?

Nope, they're really into community, teamwork and helping friends. They might not all be lightning-fingered teenagers - this game is filled with one-shot builds, why should some child, retiree or somehow less reactive person be expected to compete at that level? Let's say there's six retirees. They're still all going to get pulverised by three great players in open field - but they can contribute to their team effort by firing siege at you from a wall. THAT is why they stay inside objectives.

Telling players how to play isn't going to work, this mode was created as a sandbox. They can do what they want within the rules.

Lol, sorry, I don't buy that. My server has plenty of older players (and yes, they are borderland defenders). There's also literally a guild called [old] and they do a better job havocing over people probably half their age just because they play smarter. Also, unlike some youngsters, they also know that dying in a game does not mean you die irl and don't hide in structures.

Yea sure, a lot of them might not have the lightning reflexes of a young person and will lose some fights, but come on, this is Gw2, not Counterstrike, not Starcraft, you don't need it unless you duel all the time. If anything, these are who mounts help the most lol. And honestly a lot of hot shot roamers overrate themselves too highly.

And you can still do whatever you want, but ignoring how game mechanics work is going to lead you to a bad time. Adapt.

Adapt or complain on the forums about OP siege and structures, hey it worked for the zerglings :)

Yes, because Anet never buffed defense before. Actually, defense was buffed way more in the past than it has been nerfed. May I remind you about, T2 & T3 buffs, tactivators with invulnerable fortifications being especially egregious, siege disablers, gliders, and most recently mounts? All of these additions favor the defenders. So it was about time that the devs asked themselves if they wanted to keep perpetually buffing defense or if they wanted to scale it back a little.

Meh, sounds like some of those things also help attackers. Mounts? Attackers can also use them, why is this exclusive to defenders? Siege disablers? Attackers also use these before, same for gliders. Tactivators indeed are a big buff for defenders. Lets not forget bubbles, that buff attackers way more than defenders, and this was not intended either.

Just because all these are usable by attackers as well it doesn't mean that they don't favor the defender. For example, mounts favor defenders more because they go quicker in their own territoty. Before mounts players from all servers would move towards the objective at the same pace, depending on professions of course. Now the defenders can revive and get back with quicker speed than attackers. Similarly, gliders enable you to get to certain owned objectives quicker, especially alpine home keeps.

[Garrus.7403]

Seems like most defenders are so spoiled by the years of constant defensive siege buffs and now you get one nerf and the world falls apart.

[Finitura.5843]

Meh, sounds like some of those things also help attackers. Mounts? Attackers can also use them, why is this exclusive to defenders? Siege disablers? Attackers also use these before, same for gliders. Tactivators indeed are a big buff for defenders. Lets not forget bubbles, that buff attackers way more than defenders, and this was not intended either.

So lets go over this because you have been making statements all over this thread and when someone proves you wrong you suddenly only started playing again last weekend. So please refrain from using this excuse this time.

Mounts - more movespeed in areas you ownGliding - only works around structures you ownDisablers - good luck on throwing one on an AC on the other edge of the wallShieldgens - are just as effective to make sure a cata/treb cannot hit the wall as it is to protect siege from disablers and defenders have the option to disable them. Offense cannot disable your shieldgen on the other side of the wall.

Now tell me how offense is favored in any of these options

[oOStaticOo.9467]

@Garrus.7403 said:Seems like most defenders are so spoiled by the years of constant defensive siege buffs and now you get one nerf and the world falls apart.

It is not just one nerf. Have you forgotten the huge nerf to Arrow Carts not too long ago. Now an entire zerg can stand under AC fire like it's just raindrops. Seriously, Cannons do no good for defense. Oil does no good for defense. Arrow Carts do no good for defense. Walls do no good for defense. What's the point in defense now? Nothing. Might as well just stand back and let the blob take whatever they want, then when they leave try to take it back. The bigger stacked servers will have an easier time taking over an enemies territory now and getting free bags because now the smaller servers will have nothing that they can run to for any kind of protection. All they will do is stand in Spawn camp and stare at their enemies inside their keep. Yay.

[Finitura.5843]

Or you can tag up, gather players and come fight us inside the structure. And if you do it before we reach inner you can even use your ACs. You can’t honestly think that 4 players on an AC can make standing in the AC fire unbearable for a 50 man squad proper balance right?

[aspirine.5839]

@Finitura.5843 said:

Meh, sounds like some of those things also help attackers. Mounts? Attackers can also use them, why is this exclusive to defenders? Siege disablers? Attackers also use these before, same for gliders. Tactivators indeed are a big buff for defenders. Lets not forget bubbles, that buff attackers way more than defenders, and this was not intended either.

So lets go over this because you have been making statements all over this thread and when someone proves you wrong you suddenly only started playing again last weekend. So please refrain from using this excuse this time.

Mounts - more movespeed in areas you ownGliding - only works around structures you ownDisablers - good luck on throwing one on an AC on the other edge of the wallShieldgens - are just as effective to make sure a cata/treb cannot hit the wall as it is to protect siege from disablers and defenders have the option to disable them. Offense cannot disable your shieldgen on the other side of the wall.

Now tell me how offense is favored in any of these options

Well no need to get al defensive all of a sudden...Mounts move faster in areas you own, since the PPT karma train leaves a trail of conquered areas behind them, from spawn to where they are it is exactly the same as defenders. Also it is quite possible that the areas you have to go through as a defender is not owned by your server.Gliding, same as above, but its not as useful as it used to be since there is a mount now. When trying to get my mount I was the only one gliding and people where overtaking me left and right.Disablers, well perhaps some people are just very good at throwing them. It sure is easier for a zerg to try it than the other way around. Try disabling 5 catas when 50 people are trying to murder you. But since an AC does not even tickle a zerg nowadays why even bother anyway. :/ It's more use on trying suicide with a disabler.

Try disabling shield gens as a defender for a change, they seem to be very well placed. A usual attack group seem to have more than one gen. While the defenders are happy to even have one on most likely to be attacked wall. And offense is not suppose to disable shieldgens on the other side of the wall, you make it sound like they should.

[steki.1478]

@aspirine.5839 said:

@Finitura.5843 said:

Meh, sounds like some of those things also help attackers. Mounts? Attackers can also use them, why is this exclusive to defenders? Siege disablers? Attackers also use these before, same for gliders. Tactivators indeed are a big buff for defenders. Lets not forget bubbles, that buff attackers way more than defenders, and this was not intended either.

So lets go over this because you have been making statements all over this thread and when someone proves you wrong you suddenly only started playing again last weekend. So please refrain from using this excuse this time.

Mounts - more movespeed in areas you ownGliding - only works around structures you ownDisablers - good luck on throwing one on an AC on the other edge of the wallShieldgens - are just as effective to make sure a cata/treb cannot hit the wall as it is to protect siege from disablers and defenders have the option to disable them. Offense cannot disable your shieldgen on the other side of the wall.

Now tell me how offense is favored in any of these options

Well no need to get al defensive all of a sudden...Mounts move faster in areas you own, since the PPT karma train leaves a trail of conquered areas behind them, from spawn to where they are it is exactly the same as defenders. Also it is quite possible that the areas you have to go through as a defender is not owned by your server.Gliding, same as above, but its not as useful as it used to be since there is a mount now. When trying to get my mount I was the only one gliding and people where overtaking me left and right.Disablers, well perhaps some people are just very good at throwing them. It sure is easier for a zerg to try it than the other way around. Try disabling 5 catas when 50 people are trying to murder you. But since an AC does not even tickle a zerg nowadays why even bother anyway. :/ It's more use on trying suicide with a disabler.

Try disabling shield gens as a defender for a change, they seem to be very well placed. A usual attack group seem to have more than one gen. While the defenders are happy to even have one on most likely to be attacked wall. And offense is not suppose to disable shieldgens on the other side of the wall, you make it sound like they should.

Have you tried doing it (damaging /disabling) from the side and not from the wall? Have you tried using stealth to disable? Shields cant cover themselves anymore.

Let's not forget the ballista buffs but no one seems to remember them because it's easier to complain on forums than build siege useful for counter attack.

[displayname.8315]

Attacking was fine when you had competent zergs playing. Now that the norm is 15 people derping around doing the same cata wall strategy over and over again... yeah anet just gave you the crutch you needed...

[aspirine.5839]

@steki.1478 said:

@aspirine.5839 said:

@Finitura.5843 said:

Meh, sounds like some of those things also help attackers. Mounts? Attackers can also use them, why is this exclusive to defenders? Siege disablers? Attackers also use these before, same for gliders. Tactivators indeed are a big buff for defenders. Lets not forget bubbles, that buff attackers way more than defenders, and this was not intended either.

So lets go over this because you have been making statements all over this thread and when someone proves you wrong you suddenly only started playing again last weekend. So please refrain from using this excuse this time.

Mounts - more movespeed in areas you ownGliding - only works around structures you ownDisablers - good luck on throwing one on an AC on the other edge of the wallShieldgens - are just as effective to make sure a cata/treb cannot hit the wall as it is to protect siege from disablers and defenders have the option to disable them. Offense cannot disable your shieldgen on the other side of the wall.

Now tell me how offense is favored in any of these options

Well no need to get al defensive all of a sudden...Mounts move faster in areas you own, since the PPT karma train leaves a trail of conquered areas behind them, from spawn to where they are it is exactly the same as defenders. Also it is quite possible that the areas you have to go through as a defender is not owned by your server.Gliding, same as above, but its not as useful as it used to be since there is a mount now. When trying to get my mount I was the only one gliding and people where overtaking me left and right.Disablers, well perhaps some people are just very good at throwing them. It sure is easier for a zerg to try it than the other way around. Try disabling 5 catas when 50 people are trying to murder you. But since an AC does not even tickle a zerg nowadays why even bother anyway. :/ It's more use on trying suicide with a disabler.

Try disabling shield gens as a defender for a change, they seem to be very well placed. A usual attack group seem to have more than one gen. While the defenders are happy to even have one on most likely to be attacked wall. And offense is not suppose to disable shieldgens on the other side of the wall, you make it sound like they should.

Have you tried doing it (damaging /disabling) from the side and not from the wall? Have you tried using stealth to disable? Shields cant cover themselves anymore.

Let's not forget the ballista buffs but no one seems to remember them because it's easier to complain on forums than build siege useful for counter attack.

Sometimes. I am more likely to go for the siege than the shieldgens though unless there are other people to damage the gens. But it's a good tip anyway thanks.But you play Elementalist really well right? Is there any ballista, or any other siege on a wall that you or your group cannot hit from outside?. One good meteor storm can take out the siege and the person on it too. I have seen some good spots on the rbl, but not many on others.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@steki.1478 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:What are defenders even defending? Winning means nothing. Is there hidden treasure in there that I didn't find yet?

The point of defending is for the sake that someone wants to take it. Objectives are the focus of the fights. And I say this as a havoc and roamer. Defending used to be a bigger thing but as there is less and less chance to defend then whats the point. It was already easier as havoc to attack, this just makes it more so.

Isn't the whole point of havoc to constantly pressure enemy objectives/supplies with small amount of people, regardless of you being attacked or not?

Each havoc probably has their own definition, ours is applying pressure where needed. That may be attacking or defending/slowing. I think most havocs have a similar definition of success, that being did you draw out a larger force from the otherside. Anytime a smaller force can pull a larger one you are doing your job.

[steki.1478]

@aspirine.5839 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@aspirine.5839 said:

@Finitura.5843 said:

Meh, sounds like some of those things also help attackers. Mounts? Attackers can also use them, why is this exclusive to defenders? Siege disablers? Attackers also use these before, same for gliders. Tactivators indeed are a big buff for defenders. Lets not forget bubbles, that buff attackers way more than defenders, and this was not intended either.

So lets go over this because you have been making statements all over this thread and when someone proves you wrong you suddenly only started playing again last weekend. So please refrain from using this excuse this time.

Mounts - more movespeed in areas you ownGliding - only works around structures you ownDisablers - good luck on throwing one on an AC on the other edge of the wallShieldgens - are just as effective to make sure a cata/treb cannot hit the wall as it is to protect siege from disablers and defenders have the option to disable them. Offense cannot disable your shieldgen on the other side of the wall.

Now tell me how offense is favored in any of these options

Well no need to get al defensive all of a sudden...Mounts move faster in areas you own, since the PPT karma train leaves a trail of conquered areas behind them, from spawn to where they are it is exactly the same as defenders. Also it is quite possible that the areas you have to go through as a defender is not owned by your server.Gliding, same as above, but its not as useful as it used to be since there is a mount now. When trying to get my mount I was the only one gliding and people where overtaking me left and right.Disablers, well perhaps some people are just very good at throwing them. It sure is easier for a zerg to try it than the other way around. Try disabling 5 catas when 50 people are trying to murder you. But since an AC does not even tickle a zerg nowadays why even bother anyway. :/ It's more use on trying suicide with a disabler.

Try disabling shield gens as a defender for a change, they seem to be very well placed. A usual attack group seem to have more than one gen. While the defenders are happy to even have one on most likely to be attacked wall. And offense is not suppose to disable shieldgens on the other side of the wall, you make it sound like they should.

Have you tried doing it (damaging /disabling) from the side and not from the wall? Have you tried using stealth to disable? Shields cant cover themselves anymore.

Let's not forget the ballista buffs but no one seems to remember them because it's easier to complain on forums than build siege useful for counter attack.

Sometimes. I am more likely to go for the siege than the shieldgens though unless there are other people to damage the gens. But it's a good tip anyway thanks.But you play Elementalist really well right? Is there any ballista, or any other siege on a wall that you or your group cannot hit from outside?. One good meteor storm can take out the siege and the person on it too. I have seen some good spots on the rbl, but not many on others.

You don't build it on the wall, you build it on the side. That way they have to split the group to destroy it (easier to take down siege or one of the groups than whole zerg).

You usually need 3+ meteors to destroy a well placed siege. 2 if you're lucky with rng, but never 1 unless it's targetable by any other aoe.