[merged] About the Skyscale Timegate...

[Jokubas.4265]

My brother helped me do the second day's Collection, and I want to come back and say some things. First of all, I feel like a couple of my last posts on this forum have sounded like I'm calling out other opinions. I apologize for that. Second, I really don't want to sound harsh to the devs, either. I always try my best to express my feedback in a positive way, but I realize it's still probably not fun if it looks like it's all just disappointment and no appreciation.

So I want to restate that I liked this chapter. I enjoyed the story and had fun finishing the map and doing the events. I also really like the Skyscale and had a lot of fun using it throughout the new map.

I also like the horizontal progression in this game and the many many things you can set out to do and earn.

I'll admit, part of the reason I'm bothered by the Skyscale collection is a personality thing that I can't expect anyone to acquiesce to. I certainly think it's a good thing to keep different perspectives in mind, but it's obviously impossible to make something that works equally well for every person on the planet.

Back to the main topic though, Day 2 wasn't that bad in the end either. The uncertainties I was concerned about turned out to be small in number and not as bad as I feared. In the end, I still find myself overwhelmed though.

I didn't even see any of this coming because the story just hands you a Skyscale and you get to use it in the map fairly freely. It wasn't until I finished the story that I realized I hadn't been given one and needed to look somewhere to find out how to get one as an actual mount. I thought I was going to grind post-story to finish the mount Mastery, not to unlock the mount and the Mastery to begin with. You can imagine how shocking that was. I did this for the griffon, but it was hidden, not a significant part of the story (the Beetle was similar, being less hidden but not really plot relevant either).

I feel like part of this came from a desire to tell a story just about earning the Skyscale, which is fine. Unfortunately, this isn't the first time we've done something like this, and the sheer number of requirements take away from the story. It does the opposite of endearing me to the Skyscale. If raising and playing with the dragon was absolute side content with some fun minigames, that might endear me to it. This is just too grindy to make me feel like I'm making a positive connection to the characters.

I just think it could be dialed back a tad, that's all. I feel like I'm doing work and not having fun, and that's a huge shame because I love this game.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Rukario.1695 said:Unfortunately I don't understand why this is postponed until the 28th after first adopters have finished, rather than just a hotfix that takes place after today's Daily Reset.Most likely because the decision had been made too late to make (and test) the changes in time to have them ready for the tomorrow's patch window. And it was not considered critical enough to warrant a nonstandard patch (which is generally reserved for only major bugs and exploits - things that have to be fixed immediately and simply cannot wait).

[tazzannl.5016]

Well i'm not happy at all, i liked the time gating making you work for your mount, why give into people who are just gonna unlock it then not play after ??? -.- it's not supposed to be unlocked over night.

we've had to complete the collections days at a time. ehhh oh well.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@Lanthun.7251 said:If we're working on Tyria time then, let hearts reset in Draconis Mons by that, too, for Wayfarer's Henge.

I'm just sayin'. ;)

And the charged quartz that is still tied to real 24 hours. And daily crafting.

[Rukario.1695]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Rukario.1695 said:Unfortunately I don't understand why this is postponed until the 28th after first adopters have finished, rather than just a hotfix that takes place after today's Daily Reset.Most likely because the decision had been made too late to make (and

test

) the changes in time to have them ready for the tomorrow's patch window. And it was not considered critical enough to warrant a nonstandard patch (which is generally reserved for only major bugs and exploits - things that

have

to be fixed immediately and simply cannot wait).

Again, I don't disagree. But I still feel that the changes required for this could have been done and tested a few days ago after the initial flood of displeasure came in. But there's nothing that me saying something about it will do, that's in the past.

The only hotfix I'm really referring to is the 24 period of time between each collection unlock; putting it to 2 hours. This shouldn't require much testing.

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@Lanthun.7251 said:If we're working on Tyria time then, let hearts reset in Draconis Mons by that, too, for Wayfarer's Henge.

I'm just sayin'. ;)

And the charged quartz that is still tied to real 24 hours. And daily crafting.

You can do the Meta on the new map a few times. Each run through the entire event series nets you around 50 Rare Unid's and other; roughly 5g and more. You can trade Map Currency at the vendors for materials to sell as well. Just by doing this you can earn the gold to purchase the Grow Lamp and Skyscale Food. It takes effort but it's very doable -- currently I've grew around 300g since I completed that step a few days ago; but my methods aren't just by doing the Meta and exchanging Map Currency.

My point is, trying to create Charged Quartz is going to take you a lot longer than it is to just buy what you need to.

[CJtheBigBear.9610]

@tazzannl.5016 said:Well i'm not happy at all, i liked the time gating making you work for your mount, why give into people who are just gonna unlock it then not play after ??? -.- it's not supposed to be unlocked over night.

we've had to complete the collections days at a time.

Even with the changes, Collection 3 still takes 3 days if you have/buy the materials, and up to 22 if you don't have any Charged Quartz or the gold needed to buy the Grow Lamp and food.

Still not exactly overnight.

[Jora.5471]

@tazzannl.5016 said:Well i'm not happy at all, i liked the time gating making you work for your mount, why give into people who are just gonna unlock it then not play after ??? -.- it's not supposed to be unlocked over night.

we've had to complete the collections days at a time. ehhh oh well.

You don't have to rush the content. If you want to slow down, go ahead and slow down.

[Katastroff.1045]

@"Stephane Lo Presti.7258" said:Hi,

We've posted an update about the skyscale acquisition here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/77191/an-update-about-the-skyscale-acquisition/p1#Item_0

As mentioned above, we welcome your feedback but please take into account the previous message I posted and that I'll repost here:

The discussion remained mostly civil so far and I want to thank all of you who contributed respectfully. All of you are passionate about the game and we're reading your posts. There are however tensions in this thread and I want to remind everyone here, whether you agree with a point being raised or not, that we ask all forum contributors to be

respectful and constructive

. No ad-hominem arguments will be accepted and, if you see a post like this, simply report it, the moderation team will action them (in passing, this is a friendly reminder about

the rules that your can find here

). You can talk about various aspects of the game, how you feel about them, and generally share your feedback but the discussion here has to remain courteous.

So those that are doing it it now, the hard way, are getting a nice slap in the face. Did Aneth in is infinite wisdom consider some kind of compensation for us?

[JustTrogdor.7892]

@Katastroff.1045 said:

@"Stephane Lo Presti.7258" said:Hi,

We've posted an update about the skyscale acquisition here:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/77191/an-update-about-the-skyscale-acquisition/p1#Item_0

As mentioned above, we welcome your feedback but please take into account the previous message I posted and that I'll repost here:

The discussion remained mostly civil so far and I want to thank all of you who contributed respectfully. All of you are passionate about the game and we're reading your posts. There are however tensions in this thread and I want to remind everyone here, whether you agree with a point being raised or not, that we ask all forum contributors to be

respectful and constructive

. No ad-hominem arguments will be accepted and, if you see a post like this, simply report it, the moderation team will action them (in passing, this is a friendly reminder about

the rules that your can find here

). You can talk about various aspects of the game, how you feel about them, and generally share your feedback but the discussion here has to remain courteous.

So those that are doing it it now, the hard way, are getting a nice slap in the face. Did Aneth in is infinite wisdom consider some kind of compensation for us?

Haha, I was waiting for the first post like this after the update news. When the update happens it isn't any easier as far as completing the collection tasks, just takes less time during the feeding part. So I'm not sure what you mean by the hard way unless waiting 4 days is hard? Your compensation is you get the Skyscale earlier than people that wait for the change to occur on the 28th. :sunglasses:

[tazzannl.5016]

@Katastroff.1045 said:

@"Stephane Lo Presti.7258" said:Hi,

We've posted an update about the skyscale acquisition here:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/77191/an-update-about-the-skyscale-acquisition/p1#Item_0

As mentioned above, we welcome your feedback but please take into account the previous message I posted and that I'll repost here:

The discussion remained mostly civil so far and I want to thank all of you who contributed respectfully. All of you are passionate about the game and we're reading your posts. There are however tensions in this thread and I want to remind everyone here, whether you agree with a point being raised or not, that we ask all forum contributors to be

respectful and constructive

. No ad-hominem arguments will be accepted and, if you see a post like this, simply report it, the moderation team will action them (in passing, this is a friendly reminder about

the rules that your can find here

). You can talk about various aspects of the game, how you feel about them, and generally share your feedback but the discussion here has to remain courteous.

So those that are doing it it now, the hard way, are getting a nice slap in the face. Did Aneth in is infinite wisdom consider some kind of compensation for us?

oh too right we are :S

[tazzannl.5016]

@runeblade.7514 said:

@tazzannl.5016 said:Well i'm not happy at all, i liked the time gating making you work for your mount, why give into people who are just gonna unlock it then not play after ??? -.- it's not supposed to be unlocked over night.

we've had to complete the collections days at a time. ehhh oh well.

You don't have to rush the content. If you want to slow down, go ahead and slow down.

who said i was rushing? i'm actually a day behind others who did collection 1 day one????

[Equinox.1463]

I'm actually pleased with the quick turnaround ANet took on the Skyscale. It proves that they listen to the complaints of their players and act upon them. Good job, ANet!

For those saying that the uppdate is way too far away... you won't stop arguing about something until it's fed to you, right? Metaphor apart, be pleased that you won't have to wait 24h, just 2!

[Shabari.1504]

I am very happy our voices were listened to. I actually enjoyed doing the time gated way. Once I got to hatching and caring for our egg it made all the work and wait worth while. It is so cute playing with our new baby.As for those wanting the new update for the time gated to be only 2 hours to go in effect now, I do not agree with. Simply to be fair to those of us that have or had to do it the time gated way. Having to wait till the 28th is fair. I wouldn't like if others got to do it in a few hours now and those of us that have been doing it for days.

Thanks again very much for listening <3

[Thundabolt.8541]

@Katastroff.1045 said:

@"Stephane Lo Presti.7258" said:Hi,

We've posted an update about the skyscale acquisition here:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/77191/an-update-about-the-skyscale-acquisition/p1#Item_0

As mentioned above, we welcome your feedback but please take into account the previous message I posted and that I'll repost here:

The discussion remained mostly civil so far and I want to thank all of you who contributed respectfully. All of you are passionate about the game and we're reading your posts. There are however tensions in this thread and I want to remind everyone here, whether you agree with a point being raised or not, that we ask all forum contributors to be

respectful and constructive

. No ad-hominem arguments will be accepted and, if you see a post like this, simply report it, the moderation team will action them (in passing, this is a friendly reminder about

the rules that your can find here

). You can talk about various aspects of the game, how you feel about them, and generally share your feedback but the discussion here has to remain courteous.

So those that are doing it it now, the hard way, are getting a nice slap in the face. Did Aneth in is infinite wisdom consider some kind of compensation for us?

At least now you don't have to do it in actual life time.

;)

[OtakuModeEngage.8679]

Ohhhh, so the timegating was intended to relfect a sense of more natural growth for the skyscale... I hadnt considered that. To me this makes it much more acceptable. If they had said that in the first place, Id have been fully on board.

[CJtheBigBear.9610]

@Katastroff.1045 said:

So those that are doing it it now, the hard way, are getting a nice slap in the face. Did Aneth in is infinite wisdom consider some kind of compensation for us?

@tazzannl.5016 said:

oh too right we are :S

These changes aren't an insult to people who have already done it, it's a compliment to those that'll start after us. The whole point of this was to use our criticisms to do exactly that. Even though I won't benefit from the change, I'm ecstatic that the friends, guild-mates, and other affected people who haven't started yet because of those reasons will now have motivation to do it, now that they've become more accessible.

I consider that my compensation.

[Katastroff.1045]

@JustTrogdor.7892 said:

@Katastroff.1045 said:

@"Stephane Lo Presti.7258" said:Hi,

We've posted an update about the skyscale acquisition here:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/77191/an-update-about-the-skyscale-acquisition/p1#Item_0

As mentioned above, we welcome your feedback but please take into account the previous message I posted and that I'll repost here:

The discussion remained mostly civil so far and I want to thank all of you who contributed respectfully. All of you are passionate about the game and we're reading your posts. There are however tensions in this thread and I want to remind everyone here, whether you agree with a point being raised or not, that we ask all forum contributors to be

respectful and constructive

. No ad-hominem arguments will be accepted and, if you see a post like this, simply report it, the moderation team will action them (in passing, this is a friendly reminder about

the rules that your can find here

). You can talk about various aspects of the game, how you feel about them, and generally share your feedback but the discussion here has to remain courteous.

So those that are doing it it now, the hard way, are getting a nice slap in the face. Did Aneth in is infinite wisdom consider some kind of compensation for us?

Haha, I was waiting for the first post like this after the update news. When the update happens it isn't any easier as far as completing the collection tasks, just takes less time during the feeding part. So I'm not sure what you mean by the hard way unless waiting 4 days is hard? Your compensation is you get the Skyscale earlier than people that wait for the change to occur on the 28th. :sunglasses:

Was any other collection had ever had its time gates reduce?

[Aaralyna.3104]

The charged crystal timegate and feeding timegate actually doesn't annoy me. It was the 1st daily reset timegate that felt unnatural since I took my time doing the 1st collection (eggs/scales/...) so I bumped into that timegate after finding my last few eggs of collection I started before (I can't do a big chunk in just 1 day)... The crystal was simply an "I have it or not or I just buy it" and the feeding bit I felt like "it needs to grow so it makes perfect sense". It didn't feel like an unnatural stop.

As for "new players having no gold"... Everyone can do things next to just the mount collection... Or just skip it a day to make some cash. To get my griffon it took me a week or 3 as well to have the gold on very casual play and this new mount doesn't cost as much given the info Anet said. It doesn't even have to cost gold if you just take your time. It's a collection and theres no purpose in rushing it (we even have free functional skyscales we can use on new map). You will get it over time. A scavenger hunt collection should not be a 1 day job and done. New players do in general play through core, pof expac, all chapters of living world season 4 (they were given for free twice (and 1 episode trice) after all. By the time they reach this final living world they made all the cash needed for this one.

And for the ones low on quartz.... the next festival is festival of the four winds and thats quartz paradise. If you have the patience to wait, that is a very good option to stock up on it.

If you talk about length of collection then the Jahai Bluffs armor was/is worse... I'm still stuck there on that tree time shift event stage and am nowhere close having enough sigils of nullification (which price didn't drop and I still don't like new sigil/rune system). Wish that one was as easy as get 21 charged crystal (aka just wait 21 day if I'm dumb I didn't do it before).

[Jora.5471]

@tazzannl.5016 said:

@runeblade.7514 said:

@tazzannl.5016 said:Well i'm not happy at all, i liked the time gating making you work for your mount, why give into people who are just gonna unlock it then not play after ??? -.- it's not supposed to be unlocked over night.

we've had to complete the collections days at a time. ehhh oh well.

You don't have to rush the content. If you want to slow down, go ahead and slow down.

who said i was rushing? i'm actually a day behind others who did collection 1 day one????

Then there shouldn't be a problem for you.

[Rukario.1695]

@Shabari.1504 said:I am very happy our voices were listened to. I actually enjoyed doing the time gated way. Once I got to hatching and caring for our egg it made all the work and wait worth while. It is so cute playing with our new baby.

This isn't being changed really, the only change is that you will be able to feed it 4 times instead of 3 each day; therefore taking 1 day off of 4 days total.

That collection itself has the 3~4-day wait built into it, it doesn't have to do with the Daily Reset Unlock for the next collection tier (which they are fixing to be 2 hours.)

As for those wanting the new update for the time gated to be only 2 hours to go in effect now, I do not agree with. Simply to be fair to those of us that have or had to do it the time gated way. Having to wait till the 28th is fair. I wouldn't like if others got to do it in a few hours now and those of us that have been doing it for days.

Fair doesn't have much to do with it. If you want to talk about it being fair, what about the people who have done it the original way yet are still only on day 2 or 3? By the time this takes effect, the problem you describe as unfair will still be a problem later for those people -- just not for you specifically.

I'm currently on Collection #4 after the next hour passes, (Reset is in 1 hour,) the only reason I would like the 24 Hour period to be changed to 2 hours now with a hotpatch is because I'd like to start Collection #5 as soon as those whom would be able to do after the 28th. I deem that as fair.

The fairest thing to do at this point is to simply fix the problem as soon as possible so the least amount of people have to deal with the current circumstances.

[crepuscular.9047]

wow!!! the number of msgs on this topic, 1.4kstill on Skyscale of [Elements] part after all these days, i'm seem so far behind the pack, cant see how people could sit in front of computer all day rushing through contents

which is the dilemma for Anet and any other game developers, if you don't put some sort of limit to block players rushing through contents, players are going to complaint about no content

if there is a limit put in place, players are going to complaint about the existence of the limit

[Wyvern.7951]

@CJtheBigBear.9610 said:

These changes aren't an insult to people who have already done it, it's a compliment to those that'll start after us. The whole point of this was to use our criticisms to do exactly that. Even though I won't benefit from the change, I'm ecstatic that the friends, guild-mates, and other affected people who haven't started yet because of those reasons will now have motivation to do it, now that they've become more accessible.

I consider that my compensation.

Agreed.

I don't think we need any form of compensation for these future changes. We still get to unlock the mount early if we choose to do so.

It's not like the content we are doing is any harder. We are playing through the exact same content people on the 28th will be going through, just at a slower pace.

I'm really glad more people will be able to enjoy the skyscale.

[Starfall Leyline.2481]

@"Jojo.6140" said:The timegate, especially with the feeding, is there so that you bond a bit with your skyscale. You can play with her, wash her nest and watch it grow over the days and it looks adorable. It is done in a very lovely way and it makes me sad how everyone just hates on it just because they cant have their new mount on day 1 ...

I told myself that I wouldn't come back to this thread but here I am, heh. I will defend others in that I don't think all of them were expecting an instant mount. I think incorrect expectations were set by Anet. They didn't prepare anyone for the journey they'd need to make in order to acquire it.

That being said, I agree that I think the raising of the skyscale makes sense and I'm personally glad they added it in. It could have been a more engaging experience, they could have perhaps added in a mini game that lets you feed it an extra time effectively cutting it down by a day and giving you more to do, but I think the core goal was to give the player an in-story "break" where they could focus on other things if they wanted to. After the feeding, it turns out they actually already had a shortcut for the next collection (you can pay in-game currency to skip it, and it isn't really that expensive), and they may have a similar shortcut for the last collection, so the end is in sight.

At this point, even if Anet didn't correctly advertise it, we do know what their goals were and what's required. Maybe not everyone likes it, but it isn't the end of the world either. I keep feeling like I have some sort of duty to make sure that somehow somewhere there's documentation that some people have actually enjoyed the content as it was delivered, but then I've been oblivious and I didn't even know there was a mount coming out till the day of release, so I suppose I didn't have the hype built up to get dashed against the wall of time gates that other people had.

I expect the skyscale to get tweaked and improved, and I think once there is a clear roadmap of all that's required for obtaining the Skyscale a lot of people's concerns will be quelled. Much of it comes from the fact that they went into this blind, and we've been discovering what's needed as we go through it. It isn't a legendary mount, but speaking as someone who had to spend months getting stuff for Astralaria because I don't have the time or wherewithal to farm mats and such, the Skyscale is comparatively a walk in the park (and to reiterate, I know it isn't a legendary mount).

I don't think the acquisition will be changing (edit later: they've changed the time gate, but the collections remain the same). I also don't expect us to get any further mounts until the expansion. The only mount we might possibly need after this one is an underwater mount for Bubbles content, and Anet can't simply keep adding mounts upon mounts upon mounts. The underwater mount I suspect will be handed to the player. One thing common to all the mounts is that they were all tweaked after release, and I think we'll see the same here, so if your concern is that the Skyscale isn't worth it, give them a couple weeks. I'd be willing to bet that it eventually will be worth it - and I intend to get mine before then so it's all ready to go when they patch the mount.

I know many of you aren't happy with the way this was done. While I may not share your opinion on the actual acquisition, I think I can honestly say Anet didn't intend it to be wearying. More likely they had a different perspective on what they thought some of the players would find fun and engaging. I also think they were trying to put together a series of collections that (1) told a little story and (2) were collections that people could do parallel to experiencing the new area. i.e. the 10-events per lane "requirement" is something you can achieve just by wandering around and participating.

If you read through this thread, you'll find that there's hardly a unified opinion anywhere. Some people don't like the timegates, some love them, some want different time gates, some people don't care about the timegates but hate the collections, others loved the collections but hated the timegates, some like how it is, some hate everything about it, some think the Skyscale is great, some think it's awful, some just think it needs to be improved. To a degree, this is about the players. And to a degree, this is about the experience Anet wanted to deliver. Experiences aren't one-size-fits-all.

Maybe it wasn't perfect, but I believe the intent was something good. And ultimately, I think for many of us there is a lot to love. One man's trash is another man's treasure, and I suppose in this case I'm finding a decent amount of treasure. Here's to hoping they tweak and improve the Skyscale soon.

[Rukario.1695]

@"crepuscular.9047" said:wow!!! the number of msgs on this topic, 1.4kstill on Skyscale of [Elements] part after all these days, i'm seem so far behind the pack, cant see how people could sit in front of computer all day rushing through contents

which is the dilemma for Anet and any other game developers, if you don't put some sort of limit to block players rushing through contents, players are going to complaint about no content

if there is a limit put in place, players are going to complaint about the existence of the limit

Frankly, people complaining there is no content have absolutely no argument. They are bored because they do not want to do the content that is already there right in front of them. When they say "we need more content," they might as well say "I don't like this content, design something I'll like because I'm very picky." Contrary to your statement, this entire thread had nothing to do with "there is no new content, nothing for me to do."

Players will always complain about pointless limiters that waste their time with no logical explanation, but there is no shortage on Guild Wars 2 content they can participate in.

[CJtheBigBear.9610]

@"crepuscular.9047" said:wow!!! the number of msgs on this topic, 1.4kstill on Skyscale of [Elements] part after all these days, i'm seem so far behind the pack, cant see how people could sit in front of computer all day rushing through contents

which is the dilemma for Anet and any other game developers, if you don't put some sort of limit to block players rushing through contents, players are going to complaint about no content

if there is a limit put in place, players are going to complaint about the existence of the limit

If you're going to come on and talk about how many comments there are, please take the time to actually skim/read them before commenting, so you can actually know what our criticisms are before considering them "baseless complaints."