[merged] About the Skyscale Timegate...

[EmperorMoth.2709]

@Gambino.2109 said:Question guys, if Anet was to rework this to eliminate these terrible time gates.. after the first wave of players went through it..

Would you (being one of those first wavers) be upset knowing that you went through with this and suddenly everyone else doesn't have to?I would 100% be okay with it. As of now, I am the furthest you can be to acquiring it. So that is a lot of figuring and working without guides, but I do have other people helping me just as all the other people currently working towards the mount. A few months from now the jps and events will be less populated and more difficult because of it. Considering how much you need to do I think that changing the hard time gates would help people out a lot. I am all about helping people, and I feel that there are certainly a large sum that would appreciate the changing or removing of the time gates. Back in my day we had to walk a mile up hill both ways just to get to look at the skyscale.

[BrotherBelial.3094]

@Starfall Leyline.2481 said:

@BrotherBelial.3094 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:

@Starfall Leyline.2481 said:

@"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015"@Kidel.2057I was watching the video that Kidel linked, and I noticed that as the devs were talking about the mount, they constantly refer to the dragon as "he" so I feel vindicated in my gender choice, haha! Choose ye gender freely, and be not dismayed by the tyranny of mission writers!

I don't really give a rat's kitten about that either to be completely honest. :)But from your reply (or lack of) I get that probably you also noticed that the Skyscale has some issues that we hope will be solved soon.

@"BrotherBelial.3094 "I find it amazing that ANet have not even uttered a word about this at all, other that to tell us they'll talk about the skyscale on the 24th.Probably because it's the weekend and they didn't have all the staff to discuss about it. I guess we'll hear more from them tomorrow or probably the day after.

No, that's not it. People have been complaining about it since Tuesday. It should not take a week to tell your players, "we are looking in to changes" or "its staying as it is" silence is just a way of ignoring the problem and hope it goes away, and people find something else to complain about.

The fact that they didn't. Mention a single thing about the time gates or the collection just added fuel to the fire.

The Skyscale was the biggest incentive and advertised part of the patch. Expectations where of being able to get it on short order. The reality is a collection that is time gated for no good reason, and a collection on par with the effort needed to make a legendary weapon.

They have done an amazing job of killing the hype for many outside of the people who love to grind/can play to make sure the daily reset is a non issue for them.

I was hyped to get a new mount, now I can't be bothered to login any longer than it takes to collect the login reward.

It

does

take a while to get people together. This is part of what irks me about responses such as this. The fact of the matter is, they need to discuss all changes, and not just discuss them, they have to figure out how to change things without breaking other things, or the content itself. It can often require intensive alterations to game mechanics and code in order to implement changes. Changing the time-gate from daily reset to in-game days, for example, is not as trivial as you might think. Not to mention if they were to make changes to content, they have to figure out how to do it without breaking it for people who have already started.

And that's not factoring in all of the

other

things they have to juggle unplanned changes into. They aren't just sitting on their thumbs waiting for a job request to come up, they're working on other parts of the game, and very likely future chapters, so setting aside time to go back and redo other parts of the game takes time.

So yes, that is

exactly

it. They're regrouping to try and discuss how to handle it. There are more than one possible solutions for them to discuss and decide on, and then act on.

It's not hard to put out a "we hear you, we will be meeting to discuss this" that takes zero time. It's also the job of the community manager to do damage control on things like this.

I'm more than aware of how games are made and what it takes. Don't use it to defend the silence. It has nothing to do with the community managers communicating with the players unless they don't have one after losing Gale.

I don't expect a change to.be instant, what I do expect is acknowledgement of players concerns.

[Sutrebor.4217]

Time gating good! Time gate world bosses!Tequatl ----75% wait till reset----50% guard lasers--wait till reset etc etc.

the word "anti-climactic" comes to mind.  I've lost interest.*sigh*

[Aerlen.5326]

@"Gambino.2109" said:Question guys, if Anet was to rework this to eliminate these terrible time gates.. after the first wave of players went through it..

Would you (being one of those first wavers) be upset knowing that you went through with this and suddenly everyone else doesn't have to?

Or would you be happy no one else has to go through this discouraging nonsense, like your friends/family guildies or anyone that comes along and questions how difficult it is because they wanted to give it a try.

I did world completion when it required WvW maps.

I was in the group that got the game's second Tequatl kill when the fight was reworked.

I did world completion before gliding.

I did world completion before mounts.

I had almost every dye when dyes were per character, not account bound.

I did Arah story before it was reworked to be soloable.

No. No I wouldn't be upset Anet reworked something to be less of a pain in the tail and more viable. I'm not a hardcore "git gud" sadist who insists everyone have the same miserable/grindy/etc experience that I did.

[Evil.1580]

I am extremely happy to see that more and more players starting to like the collection.They all see how ANET has made a special connection between the mount and the player. And all of the mechanics in this process are in place and for a reason. Absolutely brilliant content!

[echosound.5490]

Holy god... You're telling me that I spent the majority of my day off grinding through content with disconnects and lag only to have this be TIME GATED!? anet wtf are you thinking! people have real lives and jobs here, myself included. I work a full time job at a convenience store... I don't have the time to be spending grinding through umpteen achievements, spending gold I don't have. I get enough stress already... At least the Griffon was fun. This one feels like a chore.

[Teefy.5016]

This will go down in history as being grindy, boring and not fun. i rather enjoyed the griffon mount journey and i will get this mount too. And when i look back on this in the future i will think, yeh holy shit that sucked balls.

if that was the purpose of the devs, well done.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

I love this game the fractals and pvp/wvw when I get decant people to play with also the story is much better then most MMOs where you 5sec later forget why you doing this or you never get to know who this villain is an why he/she/it is doing what he/she/it does.

I have nothing against time gate when I can straight away do it but there are so many thing in the way for me the next will be the achievement rune-locked doors out of PoF(because I hate most of the mini game/adventures on the new maps ) charged quartz crystal will be another after this .

I said that already but what really the problem is for me is I done Aurora this was an awful experience don't want to do again and this is develop in the same direction on top of this I was already doing some legendary collection and wanted to revisit old maps for skin collections.

When I look this way on the map how it is designed it is like trying to be endcontent comparable to raids, fractals, wvw, pvp. The problem is most people just doing 60-70% of the achievements on the map and then move on. This was also what made Auroa so hard/hellish when you collected the skins out of the meta achievements of the maps instead of the endboxes out of pvp or wvw. ( not to mention I found 2 achievements which doesn't work on the way in LS3)

[Teefy.5016]

@"Daishi.6027" said:I am actually incredibly soured by this.

I am not a whale but I am a regular spender, and frankly if this is the direction the game is going I refuse to support it with my money. I have no problems voting with my wallet, and I've only spent money because up till now I've been invested in the experience and I believed in GW2 and what it was pushing.

I historically am also the type who will go so far as to "justify buying gems" even if I don't want anything in particular, depending on if I agree with balance changes, and the metas that develop out of them. Or deter myself no matter how much I may like a skin if it gets really bad. (guess how much I spent during "4 cele ele" and "petting zoo", Flat 0 until that kitten was nerfed.) Though, on the regular I usually evaluate content on a whole instead of just one specific area.

But this leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. I have way to much invested to quit, so that likely wont happen. But I refuse to reward this in any finical way. This is not the vision of the game I signed up for, and although this may be someone's now, this content poisons any merit the release may have had, and if it's deserving of my money.

I continue to pay when I am a satisfied customer.

this, times 100. i already posted in this thread but this gem had to be reposted explicitly.

[Zigsbee.1704]

Personally when a time gate makes sense story wise to its content i dont have a problem (i.e. Hatching, and helping it grow.) it's ones like the last two teaching what is effectively a teenage dragon to behave then learning to fly? that makes no sense to me but hey i havent gotten to the content yet due to it not being available yet so maybe it will make sense. But my general point is time gates that make sense to the story of the content perfect ones that are there just to extend content not so much.

[Bunny.9834]

This Tamagochi timegate for Raising Skyscale Care is annoying. Why wait for 4 days to feed it... why why why....

[CJH.2879]

My opinion so far on these achievements/collections for skyscale..... the time gates were just downright>> a bad idea, I understand where ANET was coming from.... believe me I do, but the implementation of it for immersion & trying to get players to be more attached to there new mount with the way it was put in just simply didn't work. Combining collections/achievements with past ones>> (different ones that had to be completed in order to work on the existing ones for skyscale), putting in items that were also time gated (charged quartz)<< without fore warning waaaay ahead of time & finally not allowing the achievements to be solo-able<< all were sorry to say not very fore-sighted.

When I started the collections/achievements for skyscale I was thinking oh great this'll be (no worse) then the ones for previous mounts.... OMG was I wrong, this is like all of those previous ones combined and more on top of it, a tad much.... just a tad! Did I think the collections/achievements for griffon was alot.... yes but I also felt that one was worth the effort because of how useful it was on all maps, the skyscale i have no doubt will be useful, but probably overall wont be used as much because its not the fastest mount in the game, do I feel the end justifies the means? In this case no I don't, I feel ANET went over the top with requirements on this one (big time). =(

I will still complete it, but my god getting there......

[yann.1946]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:There are thousands of people already at the 1st or 2nd day of feeding their Scyscale. At this point redesigning the collection would be a disaster.I like it as it is. A collection inspired by the spirit of a true RPG. Raising your baby Skyscale feels so natural :)

This would be like saying that cars shouldn't be invented, because it isn't fair to all the old people who had to walk everywhere. There is no equivalence of injustice; it doesn't matter how many people were subjugated to bad design. A bad system should be fixed.

So you are saying that it is ok for you to put your 2 yo kid in advanced technological incubator and make it 25 yo adult instantly?

Aurene grew pretty darn fast just saying... thats the joy of magic in this game. (depending on when you played the end of PoF and Living world season 4 episode 1 she went from toddler size to skyscale size in what felt like a day lol.

We even gave the dragon a magical device called a grow lamp ideally would speed up growth what do you think should really be happeningThe fact that the first generation was fully grown and had already laid eggs around the map... hmmmmm oh they were going to die from aging to fast as well if i recall.

So yes.... in this case yes it wouldn't be so bad that the dragon goes from an egg to ridable size fairly quickly. Thats the joy of magic and fantasy.

Isn't the whole story of the collection to make them stop aging that fast?

[yann.1946]

@"metalhev.6872" said:Timegating is the laziest method of padding ever devised in gaming.The discussion is "is this lazy padding good for gw2?"I think not, but who knows? But let's not fool ourselves thinking there's something more than padding to the timegates.

Realism can be a reason for a time gate ( if it where in game days for example this would be a really strong point).

Also to boost the economy if sellable things are concern.

[torben.1532]

I don’t think anyone minds the extend of the collection. It‘s just timegates being fucking stupid

[TheQuickFox.3826]

@torben.1532 said:I don’t think anyone minds the extend of the collection. It‘s just timegates being kitten stupid

I don't think anyone can do reliable statements about the opinions of others without asking them first.

[RizelStar.3724]

@yann.1946 said:

@"metalhev.6872" said:Timegating is the laziest method of padding ever devised in gaming.The discussion is "is this lazy padding good for gw2?"I think not, but who knows? But let's not fool ourselves thinking there's something more than padding to the timegates.

Realism can be a reason for a time gate ( if it where in game days for example this would be a really strong point).

Also to boost the economy if sellable things are concern.

I do believe if it wasn’t all revolved around the daily reset and more so involved in game time not only would it decrease the wait time in between collection and food feeding(making it more reasonable), but it’d make sense and actually add something positive to the experience as oppose to what we have now.

I know I’ve said this so many times but I do strongly believe this is a much better route and would’ve been received better By the community overall.

I could be missing something though.

Edit: Psychologically I can see the timegate(especially the current), make the collections appear much worse than it is to other people. Just saying.

[eldrin.6471]

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:

@torben.1532 said:I don’t think anyone minds the extend of the collection. It‘s just timegates being kitten stupid

I don't think anyone can do reliable statements about the opinions of others without asking them first.

as others have said if this is were the games going im done.all character progression in this episode of livening world was locked behind this collection.and over the years i have spent a lot of money. but no more.

[Evil.1580]

@eldrin.6471 said:

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:

@"torben.1532" said:I don’t think anyone minds the extend of the collection. It‘s just timegates being kitten stupid

I don't think anyone can do reliable statements about the opinions of others without asking them first.

as others have said if this is were the games going im done.all character progression in this episode of livening world was locked behind this collection.and over the years i have spent a lot of money. but no more.

I hope that other players don't come with such an "extreme" statement. I mean ANET aren't perfect and even if they were no one can bring content that every single player in the game will like. Look HoT and PoF for example - some people like HoT more than PoF and the opposite. It is analogical with this collection - some people like it as it is and others don't like it because some parts of it aren't suitable for their taste. Just imagine if someone come and say "I have spend a lot of money on the game and if they change the collection - no more." There will be always different players with different preferences. The good thing is that ANET offers something for everyone in GW2. Playing in this episode and working towards all the achievements and collections I have realized that they have grown so much and the level of content is increasing after each development, thus I can only hope that they will keep the good and extremely hard job of pleasing everyone at the same time.

[Jojo.6140]

The timegate, especially with the feeding, is there so that you bond a bit with your skyscale. You can play with her, wash her nest and watch it grow over the days and it looks adorable. It is done in a very lovely way and it makes me sad how everyone just hates on it just because they cant have their new mount on day 1 ...

[Kidel.2057]

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:

@torben.1532 said:I don’t think anyone minds the extend of the collection. It‘s just timegates being kitten stupid

I don't think anyone can do reliable statements about the opinions of others without asking them first.

It's true however that the lenght of the collection doesn't concern most of us, but just a minority.

And I admit that I find a disproportion between the length and effort of this collection and the effective utility of the mount itself.I'm still doing the collection, waiting for achievement 4 to unlock tonight, but I don't think I'm going to use this mount very much (in its current state), except to show it off.

[Terminal.5093]

The thing that I find odd about the collection is that certain parts are locked behind the completion of some (not all) story episodes/steps.

The only benefit of story content is an emotionally rewarding/engaging experience for the players, why make players ruin the story and have to experience the ending before they're ready?

If someone wants the skyscale, they have to finish the final part of the story, completing undermining all the work of the story team, building up over multiple episodes.

Tying them together forces people to not care about the story in their journey to get a unique mount, and it turn, care less about the franchise and the characters in it.

On one hand, anet builds up the story likes it's a big thing and is also concerned about spoilers.. but then on the other forces everyone to do the ending to start working on the skyscale.

[Dondarrion.2748]

@"Jojo.6140" said:The timegate, especially with the feeding, is there so that you bond a bit with your skyscale. You can play with her, wash her nest and watch it grow over the days and it looks adorable. It is done in a very lovely way and it makes me sad how everyone just hates on it just because they cant have their new mount on day 1 ...

That, and the size of each "day's" collection is quite large so doing that takes quite a bit of time, you get to go back and play various older maps, not just LS4 but "old world" too. I've rediscovered quite a few locations and done some old events and metas going back, it's been a great trip down memory lane. And once you're done with your "daily" Skyscale journey, you can go on to play something else... it's nice to have this long term goal to play towards and not having it handed to you straight away with no real effort. This way - even with the time-gating everybody likes to hate on - makes it feel a considerable effort to acquire the new mount.

[ZDragon.3046]

@yann.1946 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:There are thousands of people already at the 1st or 2nd day of feeding their Scyscale. At this point redesigning the collection would be a disaster.I like it as it is. A collection inspired by the spirit of a true RPG. Raising your baby Skyscale feels so natural :)

This would be like saying that cars shouldn't be invented, because it isn't fair to all the old people who had to walk everywhere. There is no equivalence of injustice; it doesn't matter how many people were subjugated to bad design. A bad system should be fixed.

So you are saying that it is ok for you to put your 2 yo kid in advanced technological incubator and make it 25 yo adult instantly?

Aurene grew pretty darn fast just saying... thats the joy of magic in this game. (depending on when you played the end of PoF and Living world season 4 episode 1 she went from toddler size to skyscale size in what felt like a day lol.

We even gave the dragon a magical device called a grow lamp ideally would speed up growth what do you think should really be happeningThe fact that the first generation was fully grown and had already laid eggs around the map... hmmmmm oh they were going to die from aging to fast as well if i recall.

So yes.... in this case yes it wouldn't be so bad that the dragon goes from an egg to ridable size fairly quickly. Thats the joy of magic and fantasy.

Isn't the whole story of the collection to make them stop aging that fast?Not really.The point of the collection was to try and save them as a whole, once that was not a possibility it became raising new ones which may or may not had the same genetic issue. Of course the 2nd generation did not have the issue but Gorrik notes that even when free from the genetic mutation issue Skyscales still grow incredibly fast and perhaps that its just their nature.

Trying to match up genetics in a game to things in real life defeats the purpose of the fantasy that a game can provide. IF a horse is born in the morning and able to walk before the afternoon is it growing too fast or is it that just part of something hard wired into its genetics. Humans dont do this so something must be wrong with the horse right? No... its safe to say that skyscales just grow fast in general the idea that you could easily grow a new born one to riding size in a few days is perfectly logical in the space of gw2 especially when feeding things magic regardless of the race often triggers growth in some way or another.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Dondarrion.2748 said:

@"Jojo.6140" said:The timegate, especially with the feeding, is there so that you bond a bit with your skyscale. You can play with her, wash her nest and watch it grow over the days and it looks adorable. It is done in a very lovely way and it makes me sad how everyone just hates on it just because they cant have their new mount on day 1 ...

That, and the size of each "day's" collection is quite large so doing that takes quite a bit of time, you get to go back and play various older maps, not just LS4 but "old world" too. I've rediscovered quite a few locations and done some old events and metas going back, it's been a great trip down memory lane. And once you're done with your "daily" Skyscale journey, you can go on to play something else... it's nice to have this long term goal to play towards and not having it handed to you straight away with no real effort. This way - even with the time-gating everybody likes to hate on - makes it feel a considerable effort to acquire the new mount.

If this were the standard for each mount no one would take issue with this but thats not the case and the whole point behind whats got people in such a fit.Imagen how much longer Path of Fire would have been stretched out if you had to do this for every mount after raptor. IT would have stretched the content easily an extra month at minimum as some mounts and or mount masteries were required to progress the story. But thats not what happened. Even after PoF with the Roller, that mount took roughly 2 days tops for people who really really wanted it.

These time gates are just not standard for mounts regardless if you like having stuff to work to or not not everyone likes having to wait 24 hours for something they could be working toward earning. For example i fed my dragon 3 times yesterday and finished the collection 3 and now im currently waiting 24 hours to even start collection 4. Why is that necessary particularly on this step. Its not. It was also not necessary on collection 1 to collection 2. Collection 3 having a time gate was ok i could have tolerated it if it was just that but some of the progression steps really dont need the gate period of 24 hours maybe 2-4 hours (one in game day cycle) at most.