[merged] About the Skyscale Timegate...

[Rukario.1695]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@CJtheBigBear.9610 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Those with more time to play the game will almost always benefit more than those that don’t. It’s no different for these collections as it is anywhere else in the game.

My primary reason for posting was about the claim that it takes so long to do those collections with a guide. That’s all.

Of course people with more time to play will play more, that's obvious. :|

The point is that this time-gate drastically altered the line between people with enough time, and people with not enough time.

There's a reason people on the less-time side never do the other time-gated stuff like legendary gear crafting. The big problem is ANet slapping that amount of time-restraint on a mount when they've never done that with any of the bonus mounts leading up 'til now.

And I was not speaking about the time-gate at all but the claim on how long each collection would take with a guide.

I guess you don't remember what you're already said..

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Also, the time-gate has minimal impact on someone with such limited playtime. If it takes six hours to do a collection, and they play for one hour a day, they essentially spent six days. On the seventh day they can start the next one. Adding a day on top of that artificially inflates things and is misleading. The daily time-gate only impacts them if they're in-between collections during their playtime but that's fairly minimal anyway due to how little time they play.

I never responded to this, however..

Six hours to do a collection. They get an hour of playtime a day. What happens if something happens at 5:45 on their 6th day, taking an extra 5 minutes, (they fall off of a cliff or cannot find something immediately, they get a phone call, their kid asks a question, or even reheat some food in the microwave at any point in time.) Oh no, it took 6:05. The daily reset happened at 6:00. What joy.

It has already happened to people and that cannot be ignored. The majority of people did not finish Collection 1 within the time-frame.

[CJtheBigBear.9610]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

And I was not speaking about the time-gate at all but the claim on how long each collection would take with a guide.

And I was saying that it doesn't matter how long each collection takes a person to do, and that it doesn't matter if you think someone else's own play experience is a gross exaggeration because it doesn't match your own.

I don't really see where the break in communication is, here.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Rukario.1695 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@CJtheBigBear.9610 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Those with more time to play the game will almost always benefit more than those that don’t. It’s no different for these collections as it is anywhere else in the game.

My primary reason for posting was about the claim that it takes so long to do those collections with a guide. That’s all.

Of course people with more time to play will play more, that's obvious. :|

The point is that this time-gate drastically altered the line between people with enough time, and people with not enough time.

There's a reason people on the less-time side never do the other time-gated stuff like legendary gear crafting. The big problem is ANet slapping that amount of time-restraint on a mount when they've never done that with any of the bonus mounts leading up 'til now.

And I was not speaking about the time-gate at all but the claim on how long each collection would take with a guide.

I guess you don't remember what you're already said..

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Also, the time-gate has minimal impact on someone with such limited playtime. If it takes six hours to do a collection, and they play for one hour a day, they essentially spent six days. On the seventh day they can start the next one. Adding a day on top of that artificially inflates things and is misleading. The daily time-gate only impacts them if they're in-between collections during their playtime but that's fairly minimal anyway due to how little time they play.

That was a response to something someone had said which didn’t have anything to do with how long the collection themselves took. I was simply illustrating a flaw that a time gate would have a minimal impact the fewer hours someone plays each day. Likewise, someone who plays for extended hours would be greatly impacted.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@CJtheBigBear.9610 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

And I was not speaking about the time-gate at all but the claim on how long each collection would take with a guide.

And I was saying that it doesn't matter how long each collection takes a person to do, and that it doesn't matter if you think someone else's own play experience is a gross exaggeration because it doesn't match your own.

I don't really see where the break in communication is, here.

The break is that I was disagreeing with the time it would take to do the collections and several people twisting that to be speaking about the time-gates.

[WargreymonDGMN.8250]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@CJtheBigBear.9610 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Those with more time to play the game will almost always benefit more than those that don’t. It’s no different for these collections as it is anywhere else in the game.

My primary reason for posting was about the claim that it takes so long to do those collections with a guide. That’s all.

Of course people with more time to play will play more, that's obvious. :|

The point is that this time-gate drastically altered the line between people with enough time, and people with not enough time.

There's a reason people on the less-time side never do the other time-gated stuff like legendary gear crafting. The big problem is ANet slapping that amount of time-restraint on a mount when they've never done that with any of the bonus mounts leading up 'til now.

And I was not speaking about the time-gate at all but the claim on how long each collection would take with a guide.

@WargreymonDGMN.8250 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@CJtheBigBear.9610 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

I was commenting about how long you were saying it’d take to do each collection and nothing about the time-gating itself.

And I never said that the way I did it was the way everyone did it. I know people do it quicker than me, and I know people do it slower than me too. Going back in the thread, you said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

ITT: People forget other people have jobs who are able to complete the collections

In response to someone saying that some people have jobs that prohibit them from doing this in a timely fashion. What I'm trying to say, is that it doesn't

matter

if some people with jobs can do it, and it doesn't

matter

if some people can do it 5 hours instead of 10.

What matters is that the people who are on the

latter

half of the spectrum are getting a bad deal in this situation.

Those with more time to play the game will almost always benefit more than those that don’t. It’s no different for these collections as it is anywhere else in the game.

My primary reason for posting was about the claim that it takes so long to do those collections with a guide. That’s all.

You're making a pretty huge kitten of yourself so if there's one thing you contributed, it's making my night entertaining.

Anything constructive?

You're obviously refusing to listen to others' constructive criticism and "countering" with your extremely weak points. So I'm not going to waste my time with that. I'm merely pointing out that it's fun to watch you dig your own hole. :)

[Rukario.1695]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Rukario.1695 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@CJtheBigBear.9610 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Those with more time to play the game will almost always benefit more than those that don’t. It’s no different for these collections as it is anywhere else in the game.

My primary reason for posting was about the claim that it takes so long to do those collections with a guide. That’s all.

Of course people with more time to play will play more, that's obvious. :|

The point is that this time-gate drastically altered the line between people with enough time, and people with not enough time.

There's a reason people on the less-time side never do the other time-gated stuff like legendary gear crafting. The big problem is ANet slapping that amount of time-restraint on a mount when they've never done that with any of the bonus mounts leading up 'til now.

And I was not speaking about the time-gate at all but the claim on how long each collection would take with a guide.

I guess you don't remember what you're already said..

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Also, the time-gate has minimal impact on someone with such limited playtime. If it takes six hours to do a collection, and they play for one hour a day, they essentially spent six days. On the seventh day they can start the next one. Adding a day on top of that artificially inflates things and is misleading. The daily time-gate only impacts them if they're in-between collections during their playtime but that's fairly minimal anyway due to how little time they play.

That was a response to something someone had said which didn’t have anything to do with how long the collection themselves took. I was simply illustrating a flaw that a time gate would have a minimal impact the fewer hours someone plays each day. Likewise, someone who plays for extended hours would be greatly impacted.

For some reason you believe this affects people who play all day more than it does those who do not get to play as much.

In all honesty it's the total opposite.

1. Those who can finish the collection within the reset time's constraints simply have to wait and play again tomorrow. They did it in 1 day. They can play all the time apparently so as others would say "this isn't a problem, they just do not want to have to wait."
2. Those who only play for a constrained time will likely finish the Collection during one of their next playtimes and then they are left with 30m~1h30m of nothing, which they could have spent on the next Collection. Instead they are wasting valuable time that they can barely squeeze out of their day to work towards it. It makes it drastically more annoying and downright rude to the player. And they spent multiple days to do it on top of that.

Even if it is this way, it still affects both parties in a negative way. Both have to wait when they could have been progressing on their own time, when they were able to do so at their own volition. Gating takes freedom away, period, and that is exactly why we are all upset.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@WargreymonDGMN.8250 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@CJtheBigBear.9610 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Those with more time to play the game will almost always benefit more than those that don’t. It’s no different for these collections as it is anywhere else in the game.

My primary reason for posting was about the claim that it takes so long to do those collections with a guide. That’s all.

Of course people with more time to play will play more, that's obvious. :|

The point is that this time-gate drastically altered the line between people with enough time, and people with not enough time.

There's a reason people on the less-time side never do the other time-gated stuff like legendary gear crafting. The big problem is ANet slapping that amount of time-restraint on a mount when they've never done that with any of the bonus mounts leading up 'til now.

And I was not speaking about the time-gate at all but the claim on how long each collection would take with a guide.

@WargreymonDGMN.8250 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@CJtheBigBear.9610 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

I was commenting about how long you were saying it’d take to do each collection and nothing about the time-gating itself.

And I never said that the way I did it was the way everyone did it. I know people do it quicker than me, and I know people do it slower than me too. Going back in the thread, you said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

ITT: People forget other people have jobs who are able to complete the collections

In response to someone saying that some people have jobs that prohibit them from doing this in a timely fashion. What I'm trying to say, is that it doesn't

matter

if some people with jobs can do it, and it doesn't

matter

if some people can do it 5 hours instead of 10.

What matters is that the people who are on the

latter

half of the spectrum are getting a bad deal in this situation.

Those with more time to play the game will almost always benefit more than those that don’t. It’s no different for these collections as it is anywhere else in the game.

My primary reason for posting was about the claim that it takes so long to do those collections with a guide. That’s all.

You're making a pretty huge kitten of yourself so if there's one thing you contributed, it's making my night entertaining.

Anything constructive?

You're obviously refusing to listen to others' constructive criticism and "countering" with your extremely weak points. So I'm not going to waste my time with that. I'm merely pointing out that it's fun to watch you dig your own hole. :)

And the same could be stated the other way around. I could list out each collection item and how long it would take to go from one item to the next on mounts. I’m pretty sure that still wouldn’t matter to the few on here disagreeing with me. It’s fairly simple to establish an objective time on how long it would take someone on average using a guide to complete the collections if that’s what they focused on doing.

[CJtheBigBear.9610]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:...I was disagreeing with the time it would take to do the collections...

And that's what I was replying to. Like I said:

@CJtheBigBear.9610 said:And I was saying that it doesn't matter how long each collection takes a person to do, and that it doesn't matter if you think someone else's own play experience is a gross exaggeration because it doesn't match your own.

Someone commented how long it personally took them to do it, and you called it an over-exaggeration because it was higher than your personal time. That's what I took issue with.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:It’s fairly simple to establish an objective time on how long it would take someone on average using a guide to complete the collections if that’s what they focused on doing.

Again, you're calculating based on your experience. I followed a guide doing Collection 1 as well, and I took longer than you. That's a fact, and neither of us are wrong in stating that. But just because someone took longer doesn't mean they're wrong or over-exaggerating.

[Mrs Lana.2506]

It's pretty pathetic that they won't address the main issue that people are concerned about until (in theory) after the first wave of people or two have the Skyscale.

[Thornwolf.9721]

It's a mount it shouldn't be legendary crafting level of collections, or depth. The roller beetle was a fine example; Something like that is FINE this is completely different and has time-gates. It has multiple collection within collections and continues to get worse off as we continue down the rabbit hole. This was specifically designed to keep people playing longer than if it was like the roller beetle.

This is the gears shifting to them wishing to retain players and not have them stop in, play and then leave till next release and its very "World of Warcraft" Of them to do. Im not opposed to working for anything but Twelve days stuck on one collection (Feeding) ontop of what is needed which is expensive, or tideous to craft (If you don't have the mats it will be way longer.) Only to have to wait to get the next one after this, which may or may not be worse off than this one? Those of us going for it will get it, alot of people will just write it off.

I am the only one of the people I know who are even bothering; As the griffin and the bunny do what this mount can do and really at this point is a vanity item. Its a cosmetic choice, and one that Im supposing is intended to make them lots of money with mount skins? Well of the twenty players I know who play the game, Im the only one bothering as of right now. Im pretty sure this mount is not going to be done by alot of people as grinding is not something people enjoy; I love the mount but Im disappointed in the implementation of the journey.

~ Best of luck out there.

[Rukario.1695]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:I am the only one of the people I know who are even bothering.

A lot of the guild members of ViP are also not participating, so don't feel alone, as I'm in the same boat being one of the only ones going ahead with it.

[Wyvern.7951]

On a lighter note, I'm glad to see a reply from Anet. I hope they make meaningful changes and find some of the feedback here both constructive and helpful. I actually really like the concept of raising a baby dragon all the way to adulthood. It's a wonderful idea for unlocking the mount.

It's a shame that lovely concept has to be dragged down by the timegating/massive chore of a collection.

I enjoyed unlocking the roller beetle, warclaw and griffon. I think a large part of the disappointment was going in expecting it to be like previous mount releases. The last few mounts were pretty consistent in terms of effort and fun. This one is kind of insane in comparison.

[eldrin.6471]

due to a trapped nerve in my neck i can only play an hour a day or im in a lot of pain.people dont like the overly long collections and time gates for all sorts of reasons.

[Linken.6345]

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:If it makes you feel better, the grow lamps are timegate too (1 per day). I don't know, but that made me laugh :).

wait you need more then 1 lamp?

[Rukario.1695]

@Linken.6345 said:

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:If it makes you feel better, the grow lamps are timegate too (1 per day). I don't know, but that made me laugh :).

wait you need more then 1 lamp?

You only need one lamp, the time-gate here isn't very relevant.

[Kidel.2057]

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:It's still useless since you need 4 days to feed it 3 items each day (up to 12). So 4 more days of clicking 1 button (honestly I see no reason for time gating that specific achievement, seriously, it can't be justified).

Maybe your dragon doesn't want to/can't physically eat 12 meals in one day? Maybe you need to earn its trust over time? Forcing it to eat 12 times when it clearly doesn't want to just seems cruel

Sure. Can't I wait 2 hours between meals? Or go by in-game day/night cycle?

[Emberstone.2904]

@"Stephane Lo Presti.7258" said:Hi everyone,I know my words don't carry much weight because I'm just one person, but I stopped playing cold turkey because of how the Skyscale was handled, and because of the precedent it set for similar content in the future. If the time gates get removed, then you just brought back another discouraged player.

I love Guild Wars 2. I really do, but I really don't appreciate being told how I'm supposed to enjoy the content. I want to play it. Let me play it. Don't tell me to come back tomorrow, or I'm not coming back at all. I'll go to other games that don't tell me to stop playing.

This was, in a way, a bait and switch. You get us all hyped, and then tell us that the patch's defining feature is locked away for no reason other than "because."

Please make this right.

[Lottie.5370]

I kinda like the time gate, it means I have something to do for the next couple of weeks, rather than be like the people who rush the content all in one day and then cry there is nothing to do.

It makes sense that since you are hatching your skyscale and "growing" it, that it would take some time. You didn't have the skyscale for the last 6 years, does it hurt so much to play the game a little for the next week or two until you have it?

Sure, it's a long-ass collection and the daily reset thing is weird - it would indeed make more sense to unlock one collection per day regardless of if you completed the last (but make it locked so you have to complete the previous one first, just not have to wait for daily reset).

I think of it more like a legendary mount, it's basically an upgraded griffon (minus the superspeed).

Personally I found the second day of the collection very fun, having to visit old maps and do weird shit like jumping in lava, I think it's a great idea. Although finding the scales/sick skyscales/eggs was a little tedious, I enjoyed exploring the new map whilst doing it and probably wouldn't have done that if it wasn't for the collection.

[yann.1946]

@Rukario.1695 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Enokitake.1742 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:The grow lamp have steadilly been rising in price all day, definitely not exploding. You had plenty of time from this morning.

ITT: People forget other people have jobs.

The timegating is stupid and should be removed, promptly.

ITT: People forget other people have jobs

who are able to complete the collections

If people work full time and have a family, yet they're spending 5 hours a day doing collections, needless to say they are either neglecting their spouse (unless both play,) or children -- for an online game and that should not be the case. If you're talking about people who simply go to work and then go home to no-life the game until they go to bed, then yeah, they probably are finishing the collections each day.

That is, unless they work 2pm to 10pm and the server reset hits at 7pm like where I live. I get home, get maybe 30 minutes to an hour to play, sleep, get up, do morning kitten, run errands, maybe get another 45 minutes of playtime if I decide to, then I have to work again. This is an 8 hour schedule -- what about 12 hours or those who have to work overtime any time their boss decides to call them?

Just because your Average Joe with nothing going on can finish a collection each day does not speak for anyone but that Average Joe.

This shouldn't need an explanation.

There is a reason I never crafted a Legendary, instead I did the Gold Grind to get 2,800g. Time-gating is dumb and collections in collections is almost worse.

The first day's collection took roughly 6 hours for most people, even with a guide.The second day's collection took roughly 6 to 8 hours depending on your luck, with a guide.The third day's collection took 3 hours with luck or substantially longer, with a guide; Gold or Charged Quartz is mandatory.No one knows what the next 2 collections entail.

But needless to say if someone only has 30min~1hr of playtime a day to allocate, this would have already taken them

15~24-ish days

depending on luck, help from others, or choosing to not use a guide at all (substantially increasing the required time,) - and this is completely ignoring the Gold requirement.

Add the chance they finish a collection 5 minutes after the Daily Reset already hit -- Add a day to the total every time this happens.

But if somebody can only play for 30 minutes then even in the worst case this would serve as a 30min delay yes it would be their whole day but that is also not that likely.On average they probably would e losing 15min and their still are other things to do in the map.

[Rukario.1695]

@yann.1946 said:

@Rukario.1695 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Enokitake.1742 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:The grow lamp have steadilly been rising in price all day, definitely not exploding. You had plenty of time from this morning.

ITT: People forget other people have jobs.

The timegating is stupid and should be removed, promptly.

ITT: People forget other people have jobs

who are able to complete the collections

If people work full time and have a family, yet they're spending 5 hours a day doing collections, needless to say they are either neglecting their spouse (unless both play,) or children -- for an online game and that should not be the case. If you're talking about people who simply go to work and then go home to no-life the game until they go to bed, then yeah, they probably are finishing the collections each day.

That is, unless they work 2pm to 10pm and the server reset hits at 7pm like where I live. I get home, get maybe 30 minutes to an hour to play, sleep, get up, do morning kitten, run errands, maybe get another 45 minutes of playtime if I decide to, then I have to work again. This is an 8 hour schedule -- what about 12 hours or those who have to work overtime any time their boss decides to call them?

Just because your Average Joe with nothing going on can finish a collection each day does not speak for anyone but that Average Joe.

This shouldn't need an explanation.

There is a reason I never crafted a Legendary, instead I did the Gold Grind to get 2,800g. Time-gating is dumb and collections in collections is almost worse.

The first day's collection took roughly 6 hours for most people, even with a guide.The second day's collection took roughly 6 to 8 hours depending on your luck, with a guide.The third day's collection took 3 hours with luck or substantially longer, with a guide; Gold or Charged Quartz is mandatory.No one knows what the next 2 collections entail.

But needless to say if someone only has 30min~1hr of playtime a day to allocate, this would have already taken them

15~24-ish days

depending on luck, help from others, or choosing to not use a guide at all (substantially increasing the required time,) - and this is completely ignoring the Gold requirement.

Add the chance they finish a collection 5 minutes after the Daily Reset already hit -- Add a day to the total every time this happens.

But if somebody can only play for 30 minutes then even in the worst case this would serve as a 30min delay yes it would be their whole day but that is also not that likely.On average they probably would e losing 15min and their still are other things to do in the map.

There are probably very few people who only play for 30 minutes (this only happens to me on very late nights and/or if I had to do something else while I had the time,) as it gives you enough time to log on and do one event or check the TP.

It serves as an example either way.

[Evil.1580]

There are thousands of people already at the 1st or 2nd day of feeding their Scyscale. At this point redesigning the collection would be a disaster.I like it as it is. A collection inspired by the spirit of a true RPG. Raising your baby Skyscale feels so natural :)

[Sylum.1806]

Let me preface this by saying I've just completed the episode so I haven't started on the Skyscale yet, and what I know is limited to what I've read on reddit so far.

The GDs probably had the best of intentions but this was really frustratingly misguided. The implementation of Aurora was perfect. The idea that you get a legendary as a payoff for your dedication to an entire season's content of Living World. Since there's no legendary trinket this time round, the Skyscale should have been Season 4's Aurora. I know there's a portion of the process that is similar, requiring players to revisit season 4 maps, but it's not quite the same.

My point is this:That the Skyscale should have been the payoff for a player's dedication to an entire season's content of Living World. And that those who have been diligently playing the season, completing major achievements, should have a minimal task of going back to the Season 4 maps, killing objectives, finding stuff and relatively smoothly completing the process of getting a Skyscale.Why? Because there are several achievements in Season 4 that are already timegates in and of themselves. Such as the Golem Y backpack.

You know, I did most of the Season 3 achievements as and when they were released and so when Aurora came out, I had almost half of the process done. That was such an awesome payoff for my dedication. But I also realized that my procrastinating on the Wayfarer's Henge came back to bite me because that timegated backpack was necessary to getting Aurora. Lesson learned.

So this season, I made sure to finish the Golem Y backpack. But no payoff this time. I believe a certain degree of predictability is a cornerstone of good game design. In my case, I felt trolled by the developers. I'm sure that's not what you intended but it is how it feels right now. This timegate nonsense won't put me off the Skyscale or the game, but I really think the formula for a well-deployed Living World season epic reward is already there. You don't need to reinvent the wheel and you certainly should not go against your manifesto of respecting your players' time.

[Rukario.1695]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:There are thousands of people already at the 1st or 2nd day of feeding their Scyscale. At this point redesigning the collection would be a disaster.I like it as it is. A collection inspired by the spirit of a true RPG. Raising your baby Skyscale feels so natural :)

A redesign isn't required.

• Unlock the collections as soon as they are available. They do not have to be unlocked immediately, but they should be unlocked after you complete the previous collection. This removes the first time gate.
• Keep the 3rd collection as-is with Charged Quartz / Food, players can buy the food on TP for gold if they find it necessary. However, remove the limit for feeding the Skyscale 3 times a day.
• Null the remaining time-based mechanics.

That's about it.

[Evil.1580]

@Rukario.1695 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:There are thousands of people already at the 1st or 2nd day of feeding their Scyscale. At this point redesigning the collection would be a disaster.I like it as it is. A collection inspired by the spirit of a true RPG. Raising your baby Skyscale feels so natural :)

A redesign isn't required.

• Unlock the collections as soon as they are available. They do not have to be unlocked immediately, but they should be unlocked after you complete the previous collection. This removes the first time gate.
• Keep the 3rd collection as-is with Charged Quartz / Food, players can buy the food on TP for gold if they find it necessary. However, remove the limit for feeding the Skyscale 3 times a day.
• Null the remaining time-based mechanics.

That's about it.

Okay, if we remove the time gate of the tens of eaters I have in my inventory ;)Do you eat 20-30 times a day? Baby skyscales should eat 3 times a day. This is how a real RPG feels like.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:There are thousands of people already at the 1st or 2nd day of feeding their Scyscale. At this point redesigning the collection would be a disaster.I like it as it is. A collection inspired by the spirit of a true RPG. Raising your baby Skyscale feels so natural :)

This would be like saying that cars shouldn't be invented, because it isn't fair to all the old people who had to walk everywhere. There is no equivalence of injustice; it doesn't matter how many people were subjugated to bad design. A bad system should be fixed.