Let's talk about the focus pull

[Senqu.8054]

1 hour ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

dodging steal is similar to trying to dodge the pull you dodge and its rng the pull is just less rng because its a period of 4s where as steal is anytime till you see it happen which then you know you are free for the next 20ish seconds or so.

At least you acknowlage the fact that dodging the pull is rng based thank goodness someone understands. At least I KNOW YOU actually play the game and understand better than most. 

 

The biggest difference though is that one

steal is a profession mechanic and not a common weapon skill

Judges intervention is a utility skill and not a common weapon skill

Power lock (the interrupt mantra) is a utility skill and not a weapon skill

Should instant cast abilities that cc be weapon skills or do you think it might be fair for a ranged pull to have a better indicator of when its going to pull? 

The best argument made so far against the focus pull has been skills like guardians shield 5 and engi shield 4 which is a instant cc knock back that goes based on the player location not some other location at range.  Those also have less ranger than the focus pull and require the player to be close to the thing they want to cc. Even reaper shroud fear can be hard to dodge but the reaper has to be standing on you to hit it. So is it worth adjusting to make it easier to react to or should it be changed who knows. But if you really want people to stop complaining as you call it these are the things you should be considering instead of just saying everyone cries too much. Some people actually do play the game and understand how the skills work others are just hear to gaslight.

 

all I read is mimimi. My tolerance towards people who want to delete further game content goes to 0.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Senqu.8054

[Justine.6351]

On 5/19/2022 at 2:44 PM, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

It is against the wall and doesn't require los to be grabbed by it lol. Can't even see the radius it will grab you from which is sometimes further then it actually really is due to where you are on the server side.

We are probably talking about 2 different scenarios when it comes to its use.

Think a lot of you are just lucky enough to not be on a outnumbered server 80% of the time where there are multiple pulls happening  to have this not be a issue where you are always 1 of the few always effected. Or probably dont play WvW at all.

The just dodge the line answer doesnt work when it doesnt have to be placed in sight to be effective lol.

I have used focus to defend while being outnumbered more times than you have been pulled by it.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

3 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

I have used focus to defend while being outnumbered more times than you have been pulled by it.

Depends on the structure where you can defend with it so I'm just doubting you.

[godfat.2604]

Mind game is not random. Even when people do things randomly, there’s still tendency. It won’t be completely random, and mind game does also take skills, just in a different form. I am not saying I like mind game, but I find it saying random not very fair.

[Justine.6351]

3 hours ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

Depends on the structure where you can defend with it so I'm just doubting you.

Lol? You think temporal curtain is so OP for attackers but cant think of how it can be turned around and used by defenders?

[semak.7481]

If anything I can see terrible at the game players gets pulled into a zerg, gets killed and complain that mesmer is still occasionally exists somwhere outside of PvE...

14 hours ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

dodging steal is similar to trying to dodge the pull you dodge and its rng the pull is just less rng because its a period of 4s

It has 1s delay after it was placed, so you cant pull instantly as it was somewhere at 2012. Comparing apples and oranges, dont you feel embarrassed?

Aight once I died to a necromancer, I want them to be deleted from the game, should they be deleted because I dislike them?  Replace necromancer with anything and spam complains 24/7 in the name of "making game less degenerate" and whatever argument that makes no sense. 

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by semak.7481

[iKeostuKen.2738]

8 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

Lol? You think temporal curtain is so OP for attackers but cant think of how it can be turned around and used by defenders?

Like I said it depends on the structure. If you can pull them off a cliff yeah it's useful. Otherwise not so much when your outnumbered since more then likely they are stab stacked.

 

In what way have you used it while defending outnumbered that it's made a difference?

[ZDragon.3046]

9 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

If anything I can see terrible at the game players gets pulled into a zerg, gets killed and complain that mesmer is still occasionally exists somwhere outside of PvE...

It has 1s delay after it was placed, so you cant pull instantly as it was somewhere at 2012. Comparing apples and oranges, dont you feel embarrassed?

Aight once I died to a necromancer, I want them to be deleted from the game, should they be deleted because I dislike them?  Replace necromancer with anything and spam complains 24/7 in the name of "making game less degenerate" and whatever argument that makes no sense. 

 

well if you had been following my post i never argued for anything to be deleted but if making adjustments to make something slightly more fair is = to deleting it then well that is your own twisted perspective I cant help you with that. Honestly if anet does not change the pull its fine my argument was just speculation as to why people could be frustrated by it but apparently even that is too much for some people to understand and that simply speculating must mean deletion. 

People thought core shroud fear on necro was unfair and based on the fact that it was instant cc with no tell and could be used while cced and anet adjusted it to be more fair yet it can still screw you up if it hits. But if you really are looking for it you can avoid it  consistently because there is no variable in how it works. There is no 4s time span in which you need to avoid it or dodge based on the majority of when players will use it you just dodge it reactively and consistently.  

Either you will understand this or  you wont and if you don't understand I have no further time to spend speaking to you.

Edited May 21, 2022 by ZDragon.3046

[ZDragon.3046]

22 hours ago, Senqu.8054 said:

all I read is mimimi. My tolerance towards people who want to delete further game content goes to 0.

Looks like you have a reading problem and your gaslight girl boss gate keep energy is maxed out to 100. My tolerance for people who cannot read is actually beyond 0.

[phokus.8934]

2 hours ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

Looks like you have a reading problem and your gaslight girl boss gate keep energy is maxed out to 100. My tolerance for people who cannot read is actually beyond 0.

It's as if you just found out about the word gaslight because you use it quite frequent.

Being focus pulled is and will always be an l2p issue.  Just like Gump, that's all I have to say about that.

[semak.7481]

8 hours ago, phokus.8934 said:

It's as if you just found out about the word gaslight because you use it quite frequent.

Being focus pulled is and will always be an l2p issue.  Just like Gump, that's all I have to say about that.

Spot on. Just leave these two to cry into the void

[Senqu.8054]

11 hours ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

Looks like you have a reading problem and your gaslight girl boss gate keep energy is maxed out to 100. My tolerance for people who cannot read is actually beyond 0.

“No u :-(“

There are a lot of skills out there far harder to dodge then focus pull and players manage to do it. Why are you not able to? And if you are able to, why the discussion? If players manage to do it but you apparently not; you tell me where the error is.

[rune.9572]

Focus pull is fine. Go complain about GS 5 on necro instead of necro-ing this thread.

sprays cats with garden hose

Edited May 22, 2022 by rune.9572

[iKeostuKen.2738]

10 hours ago, Senqu.8054 said:

“No u :-(“

There are a lot of skills out there far harder to dodge then focus pull and players manage to do it. Why are you not able to? And if you are able to, why the discussion? If players manage to do it but you apparently not; you tell me where the error is.

Thing is just because its dodge-able doesnt mean it's ok. And no one is saying to remove or nerf it but just fix it to where you can tell if you are effected by it and give a better tell on when to dodge said pull. Many other skills with similar design need to do this as well. 

[Justine.6351]

1 hour ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

Thing is just because its dodge-able doesnt mean it's ok. And no one is saying to remove or nerf it but just fix it to where you can tell if you are effected by it and give a better tell on when to dodge said pull. Many other skills with similar design need to do this as well. 

But there were people saying to nerf it...

[iKeostuKen.2738]

5 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

But there were people saying to nerf it...

Your right, though I'm not saying to nerf it so yeah. And would like to still know how you personally use it to defend while outnumbered in WvW when structures dont matter 🤔. Or are you just trying to poke holes in others post without clarifying your side on things you have stated lol.

[Justine.6351]

42 minutes ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

Your right, though I'm not saying to nerf it so yeah. And would like to still know how you personally use it to defend while outnumbered in WvW when structures dont matter 🤔. Or are you just trying to poke holes in others post without clarifying your side on things you have stated lol.

I'm sorry, but you have not demonstrated the worthiness for such instruction.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

7 hours ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

Thing is just because its dodge-able doesnt mean it's ok. And no one is saying to remove or nerf it but just fix it to where you can tell if you are effected by it and give a better tell on when to dodge said pull. Many other skills with similar design need to do this as well. 

 

 

While I can understand where you're coming from with this, I also don't really agree with the argument as to *why* it should give the enemy players a tell when nearly no other CC skills work this way. Correct me if I am wrong, but the only ones I can think of are Guardian's GS5 and Dragonhunter's Spear of Justice, but those two are also different in that they have an additional effect that ticks before the CC is used, whereas Mes Focus 5 does not. You could argue that it has the cripple effect, but that proc is not conditional for the CC landing at all and could be deemed as a separate skill in that respect. 

 

Is it the pull radius that bothers you? Well, what about Jade Winds? Chilled to the Bone? Those both have 600 radius. What about skills like Prime Light Beam that can be retargeted mid-cast so you can only partially predict who they will fire at? I guess at the end of the day I just don't think that it not being predictable *when* it is going to happen is a valid enough reason to change the skill. The counterplay already exists within the skill itself. I think if you actually play with the skill, you'll feel the counterplay and downsides to it quite quickly. What it sounds like you have an issue with is the target cap system and how you essentially have to risk wasting a dodge/cooldown/etc. because you don't know if it will be landing on you or not. But IMO that is a game-wide issue and not specific to Mes Focus 5. To reiterate from my previous post, I think the skill is at its most potent in WvW specifically, but only within the context of boonblobs coordinating it with spikes, using it to farm pugs. As a whole though, I die so much more to skills like DH spear and any sort of line/circle of warding than I do Focus 5. On walls if I am defending, I scan my surroundings and look for any Mesmers loitering near the bottom of the wall, and adjust my gameplay accordingly. 

[Justine.6351]

1 hour ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

 

While I can understand where you're coming from with this, I also don't really agree with the argument as to *why* it should give the enemy players a tell when nearly no other CC skills work this way. Correct me if I am wrong, but the only ones I can think of are Guardian's GS5 and Dragonhunter's Spear of Justice, but those two are also different in that they have an additional effect that ticks before the CC is used, whereas Mes Focus 5 does not. You could argue that it has the cripple effect, but that proc is not conditional for the CC landing at all and could be deemed as a separate skill in that respect. 

 

Is it the pull radius that bothers you? Well, what about Jade Winds? Chilled to the Bone? Those both have 600 radius. What about skills like Prime Light Beam that can be retargeted mid-cast so you can only partially predict who they will fire at? I guess at the end of the day I just don't think that it not being predictable *when* it is going to happen is a valid enough reason to change the skill. The counterplay already exists within the skill itself. I think if you actually play with the skill, you'll feel the counterplay and downsides to it quite quickly. What it sounds like you have an issue with is the target cap system and how you essentially have to risk wasting a dodge/cooldown/etc. because you don't know if it will be landing on you or not. But IMO that is a game-wide issue and not specific to Mes Focus 5. To reiterate from my previous post, I think the skill is at its most potent in WvW specifically, but only within the context of boonblobs coordinating it with spikes, using it to farm pugs. As a whole though, I die so much more to skills like DH spear and any sort of line/circle of warding than I do Focus 5. On walls if I am defending, I scan my surroundings and look for any Mesmers loitering near the bottom of the wall, and adjust my gameplay accordingly. 

rofl yeah I used to be obnoxious to defenders with jade winds

[Za Shaloc.3908]

38 minutes ago, Justine.6351 said:

rofl yeah I used to be obnoxious to defenders with jade winds

 

I still do haha but I miss the days when I could slowly kill people on walls with it 😭.

[Justine.6351]

3 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

I still do haha but I miss the days when I could slowly kill people on walls with it 😭.

 

😁

[Za Shaloc.3908]

35 minutes ago, Justine.6351 said:

 

😁

 

Ugh, looking back on old Rev vids makes me so nostalgic. I'm sure Mes mains can relate to that a lot. I remember watching your vids way back when hammer was at least somewhat serviceable.

 

Anyways, sorry OP for continuing going off-topic. Just fun to reminisce sometimes.

[ZDragon.3046]

On 5/21/2022 at 7:06 PM, phokus.8934 said:

It's as if you just found out about the word gaslight because you use it quite frequent.

Being focus pulled is and will always be an l2p issue.  Just like Gump, that's all I have to say about that.

Just like letting a thief steal consume plasma and then actually letting them consume the plasma was a l2p issue im sure... 😉 oh wait that got adjusted despite that.... But ima just sip my tea and sit back on this topic for now. 

[ZDragon.3046]

13 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

 

While I can understand where you're coming from with this, I also don't really agree with the argument as to *why* it should give the enemy players a tell when nearly no other CC skills work this way. Correct me if I am wrong, but the only ones I can think of are Guardian's GS5 and Dragonhunter's Spear of Justice, but those two are also different in that they have an additional effect that ticks before the CC is used, whereas Mes Focus 5 does not. You could argue that it has the cripple effect, but that proc is not conditional for the CC landing at all and could be deemed as a separate skill in that respect. 

 

DH spear of justice has a tell.. The tell is dodging the spear itself which is VERY CONSISTENT by the character animation of throwing...  and its consistent to the point of it hits you or you dodge it provided you are looking at the DH. If the spear hits you then you are free punished with the pull which is very different from the way the mesmer focus pull works. That would be like saying enemies need to cross the walls path before the pull would affect them.  AND we know for a fact no one here is gonna agree with some bs like that. Realistically spear of justice and the GS5 pull are no where in the same mechanical function to even be compared to mesmers focus pull. As both of those require a player to be hit by a previous attack that has a very clear and consistent animation. The closest cc skills that could come to the mesmers focus pull comparatively are as follows

Guardian Shield 5 (its just instant push good luck dodging it)

Engi shield 4 (reflect projectiles that flips over into a push back from the user)

Reaper shroud 3 (gain stab and damage reduction that flips over into an aoe fear from the user)

Two of these are 2 part skills similar to the focus pull with the difference being is that the cc comes from the player location and has much shorter range. But similarly they can be difficult to dodge because its up to the user to choose when the cc is actually used over a generous period of time.  Both of them also operate similarly in the fact that they have a base visual that suggest the cc can be used but not a visual tell you can react to when the cc is actually used (similar to the focus pull) so literally THE ONLY THING that differentiates these cc skills apart from one another is the type of cc they cause, their effective range, and that they come from the caster location rather than a placed location. 

 

 

13 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

Is it the pull radius that bothers you? Well, what about Jade Winds? Chilled to the Bone? Those both have 600 radius. What about skills like Prime Light Beam that can be retargeted mid-cast so you can only partially predict who they will fire at? I guess at the end of the day I just don't think that it not being predictable *when* it is going to happen is a valid enough reason to change the skill. The counterplay already exists within the skill itself. I think if you actually play with the skill, you'll feel the counterplay and downsides to it quite quickly. What it sounds like you have an issue with is the target cap system and how you essentially have to risk wasting a dodge/cooldown/etc. because you don't know if it will be landing on you or not. But IMO that is a game-wide issue and not specific to Mes Focus 5. To reiterate from my previous post, I think the skill is at its most potent in WvW specifically, but only within the context of boonblobs coordinating it with spikes, using it to farm pugs. As a whole though, I die so much more to skills like DH spear and any sort of line/circle of warding than I do Focus 5. On walls if I am defending, I scan my surroundings and look for any Mesmers loitering near the bottom of the wall, and adjust my gameplay accordingly. 

The radius would not bother people with a consistent tell to be honest. but without one yes its a tad bit frustrating. counter-play via boons and blocks are fine but that works on literally every other cc that you can opt to just react to via a visual indication that is applied before the cc hits so the argument with this is minimal at best. 

At least in my cases im not speaking only in wvw on a wall im also talking spvp for example or in general. This is not the case player was pulled off wall and wants nerf. I see it as something that could likely prevent some frustration if adjusted (without killing the skill) 

Dont get me wrong you are more than fine to say.... "i dont feel like it should be changed to have a better visual tell cause thats not good enough of a reason..." but i would prefer people say that than just hide behind the idea of... its a l2p issue if you get pulled just do better. 

[Senqu.8054]

56 minutes ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

 

DH spear of justice has a tell.. The tell is dodging the spear itself which is VERY CONSISTENT by the character animation of throwing...  and its consistent to the point of it hits you or you dodge it provided you are looking at the DH. If the spear hits you then you are free punished with the pull which is very different from the way the mesmer focus pull works. That would be like saying enemies need to cross the walls path before the pull would affect them.  AND we know for a fact no one here is gonna agree with some bs like that. Realistically spear of justice and the GS5 pull are no where in the same mechanical function to even be compared to mesmers focus pull. As both of those require a player to be hit by a previous attack that has a very clear and consistent animation. The closest cc skills that could come to the mesmers focus pull comparatively are as follows

Guardian Shield 5 (its just instant push good luck dodging it)

Engi shield 4 (reflect projectiles that flips over into a push back from the user)

Reaper shroud 3 (gain stab and damage reduction that flips over into an aoe fear from the user)

Two of these are 2 part skills similar to the focus pull with the difference being is that the cc comes from the player location and has much shorter range. But similarly they can be difficult to dodge because its up to the user to choose when the cc is actually used over a generous period of time.  Both of them also operate similarly in the fact that they have a base visual that suggest the cc can be used but not a visual tell you can react to when the cc is actually used (similar to the focus pull) so literally THE ONLY THING that differentiates these cc skills apart from one another is the type of cc they cause, their effective range, and that they come from the caster location rather than a placed location. 

 

 

The radius would not bother people with a consistent tell to be honest. but without one yes its a tad bit frustrating. counter-play via boons and blocks are fine but that works on literally every other cc that you can opt to just react to via a visual indication that is applied before the cc hits so the argument with this is minimal at best. 

At least in my cases im not speaking only in wvw on a wall im also talking spvp for example or in general. This is not the case player was pulled off wall and wants nerf. I see it as something that could likely prevent some frustration if adjusted (without killing the skill) 

Dont get me wrong you are more than fine to say.... "i dont feel like it should be changed to have a better visual tell cause thats not good enough of a reason..." but i would prefer people say that than just hide behind the idea of... its a l2p issue if you get pulled just do better. 

 

accept the fact that you are just a bad player maybe?