Let's talk about the focus pull

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

34 minutes ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

For choke fights or just supporting a zerg with some projectile hate I find it useful. It's a situational support weapon like mostly all focuses function in the game.

Could it use some good buffs though, yeah. That phantasm is pretty garbo.

A zerg will have better projectile reflects than focus. 

Focus as only good at the beginning when you could pull a foe towards the old phantasm. 

Nowadays is still cool in pve, but on competitive modes pistol and torch are superior (torch phantasm is also trash). 

[ZDragon.3046]

18 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

You lost a fight cause "instant" tc pull but totally not because you got outnumbered? Lol ok... we cannot help these non mesmers I guess. Cast time on shroud activation when? Tired of getting instant 600 aoe boon stripped by necros who just pop traited shroud, zero counter play.

Yes because i see the wall get placed. I know im going to be pulled. I ATTEMPT TO DODGE THE PULL WHEN I THINK IT WILL BE USED. but because there is no fixed time on when it will go off chances of reactively dodging it properly are much lower than other cc skills. I dont know how long you've been playing this game but a single cc snatching you can be the end of you as the game plays very fast and burst damage on a lot of professions is very high. Especially if you are playing a class that has lower base hp. 

Again if you can dodge that skill at the same rate you can other visual cc skills then i would love to know how you read players minds. 

Secondly your counter argument is boon strip? You mean like the boon strip you can apply while cc'ed because shatters are instant skills yes i totally understand your frustration so lets not even go there as its an entirely different subject and the same class you are defending has the same potential in that regard its not helping your case. 

I dont know why thats so shocking to you that getting cc'ed can cause you to lose lol. Not every out numbered fight is a instant loss either especially if one of the two people is practically almost dead. Lets not go duck hunting and pretend every situation is yourself, the other target and the +1 being at full hp with all cds available.  Further more my reasoning behind my frustration with the skill still stands even if i was not out numbered nothing really changes. Its not like im suggesting anet make the focus pull 50s im not suggesting they nerf the range to 200 so you cant pull anything im just asking for a consistent visual indicator or a consistent time at which the skill will pull players in. 

If you cannot understand this im sorry if that is too much of a nerf in your eyes then it really is the other way around. It is actually the rest of the community who actually cannot help you and you wonder why people start forum post like this. 

 

 

[ZDragon.3046]

16 hours ago, viquing.8254 said:

I lost faith on mesmer community when they were arguing to destroy anything but shatter gameplay.

 

@ZDragon.3046 :

More seriously, as long as there is a 1 sec CD after you put the curtain before activating the pull, you have 1 to 5 sec to either :

- go out of range. (any normal evade should do the trick, the most easier to do.)

- put you on a terrain block path.

- blind the mes.

- put some stab.

- trigger some block/aegis.

- aoe spam destroy illusions so that even if he grab he can't do anything.

- just getting grab because : 1) you know that the mes will burst just after so you can predict the following because everything that will follow the grab is highly telegraphed or 2) you know that the mes hasn't any following so it didn't matter.

 

Mean when I look at the following when hard CCed by mes, it's 90% shatter which mean illusions setups or casting blade.

We are far from a melee point-blank shot or a stomp under quickness who take away 60% of your life if you didn't see it coming. Same for all other 0 to 1 sec cast hard CC from meta classes.

 

And more importantly, when I face a mesmer with a focus, I just pewpew it from range as he can literraly do nothing but getting hit when equiping this weapon.

1. Going out of range is not optional in many cases as 600 range in a radius is actually a pretty sizable range and single dodge in many cases will not get you out of range so while its. nice idea it does not work as often as one likes to think. If the wall had a clear ring that showed its pull limit when placed I would think this would have a bit more value to talk about honestly. Im not saying you cant get out of range but its not easy either. 
2. Blinding the mes is a valid option but depending on the situation is not always possible.  (This applies to most other cc's which have react-able visuals or animations)
3. Stab is a valid option but thats brute forcing it.  (This applies to most other cc's which have react-able visuals or animations)
4. blocking is a valid option but thats brute forcing it again  (This applies to most other cc's which have react-able visuals or animations)
5. aoe spam depending on your class might not be possible and you are more likely to get interrupted by the pull before that happens if you dont already have illusions destroyed. The goal should always bee to keep their clones to a minimum when facing them.

Again I would just like it to have a consistent tell when the pull is used. The line sitting on the ground is not a good indicator if the caster has up to 4 seconds to use it as a single dodge does not cover 4 seconds. 

I think you would be better trying to give me a reason why you think it shouldn't have a consistent tell over telling me options i already know. Thats honestly what I want to hear more so than people just saying "just block, just dodge (despite me explaining why dodging it is so unreliable without a consistent visual etc), just boon yourself, just stun break." I would like to hear reasoning behind why my suggestion is not a good option i don't think thats unreasonable which is what the forums are for.
In a nut shell is the focus pull the most busted thing in the game that people should be raving about? no not at all... should anet disable it because its yonking people off walls too easily no lol... im not out for blood im just here to talk about it. I honestly dont think anet will change it but as ive said many times they have changed a good number of skills already for the same reasoning in which im specifically referencing. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by ZDragon.3046

[iKeostuKen.2738]

2 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

A zerg will have better projectile reflects than focus. 

Focus as only good at the beginning when you could pull a foe towards the old phantasm. 

Nowadays is still cool in pve, but on competitive modes pistol and torch are superior (torch phantasm is also trash). 

Not really about what's better, it's an option especially one for pugs who are +1ing with a zerg or any group that doesnt have those other reflects at the time.

Its versatile so I wouldn't say its only good at the beginning, use it to pull revivers off of downs or to block flank  ranged attacks to protect yourself while reviving down teammates, etc. 

But do think they should fix that phantasm. Its useless and the old one would be better. Like just make it a ground target summon at a location with the old design and let us trait it for invulnerability at the cost of it only lasting a small amount of time.

[ZDragon.3046]

13 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

  

I don't think that being frustrated by a Mes +1ing you with the skill is the fairest or most compelling of criteria. Every class has oppressive ways of +1ing a fight that will make it hard to respond to and recover from. Tbh I would think that Moa would be at the top of the list considering it locks you out of your skills and can be covered by stealth. 

 

Focus Pull is really only oppressive in terms of how it enables damage bombs in organized groups in WvW. It farms unaware or poorly built pugs, and I get that it can be frustrating to fight against when you instadie from a coordinated spike. But it is a skill that has its own fair of downsides and, in the grand scheme of themes, is on a class that has a totally niche role in the game mode. The 1 second ICD before you can use the pull allows for plenty of counterplay to the skill. Enough for it not to warrant any nerfs whatsoever. At least in my eyes.

 

I could see an argument to give it a better visual as it can get a bit lost amongst other animations. Perhaps give it a bit of a faint ethereal curtain-like effect above the field to better identify it and also distinguish it from Veil. 

I just want it to do something like have a small visual before the pull happens or just make the pull happen by default after a fixed time of the wall being there. I dont think either one of those is unreasonable. I would agree with the ICD argument if you the time frame in which to use the pull was a bit tighter. after all there are still 4s in which the pull can be used if it was only 1-2 or so to use the pull I think then the argument of counter play in that case would most certainly hold considerably more weight.  A tighter time frame in which to use the pull would make dodging it considerably more consistent.  There are a few other skills that work as 2 part flip overs into ccs like that which can be hard to reactively dodge but in both other cases the effective range is smaller and they are based on the players position making them more risk for reward type cc's and going into that argument would mean just asking out right for a straight up nerf to the skill which is not what im really what im asking for. 

[katte nici.9483]

Here's the solution to getting pulled off walls in WvW: Get on your mount. Magical immunity to all CC.

[ZDragon.3046]

6 minutes ago, katte nici.9483 said:

Here's the solution to getting pulled off walls in WvW: Get on your mount. Magical immunity to all CC.

Yo the forbidden tech i love it 10/10 

[iKeostuKen.2738]

2 hours ago, katte nici.9483 said:

Here's the solution to getting pulled off walls in WvW: Get on your mount. Magical immunity to all CC.

Didnt know you could defend against attackers with catas against your wall by being on your mount. 

[katte nici.9483]

Why should you be able to defend while immune to CC?

[phokus.8934]

6 hours ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

What about my post isnt serious? With that logic thieves should go back to 1 shotting backstabs because its all about situational awareness 🤔.

When you say if you see a blob near a wall dont stand there, realize your pretty much saying that defending the structure is near impossible in that case. Even if you stand on the most opposite edge of the wall with 1 foot off the edge you can still get pulled. Readding the fact that you still do not know if you are being 1 of the players being yanked by it.

The seconds or the amount of time doesnt matter because you cant see it in the way it is being used where it's at it's most lethal. Not understanding what is so hard to comprehend about that.

 

That's why you dodge or have stability or aegis.  Again, you're having troubles with a mediocre ability that is strictly learn to play issues.

[Salt Mode.3780]

2022 and people are complaining about this. Talk about player quality issues. 

[iKeostuKen.2738]

3 hours ago, katte nici.9483 said:

Why should you be able to defend while immune to CC?

You dont seem to understand the problem lol.

1 hour ago, phokus.8934 said:

That's why you dodge or have stability or aegis.  Again, you're having troubles with a mediocre ability that is strictly learn to play issues.

Your able to dodge abilities you cant see? Honestly flamethrower engineer would be fine against it, anything else that doesnt have a traited stun break though is in shambles. 

Not really a learn to play issue, it's just a request for better game design lol.  

[Salt Mode.3780]

Sounds like a bunch of people who got pulled out of their zerg cuz they weren't paying attention and now complaining about it. 

[iKeostuKen.2738]

More like outnumbered servers unable to defend due to poorly aged abilities and questionable balance decisions.

[phokus.8934]

On 5/4/2022 at 4:38 PM, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

You dont seem to understand the problem lol.

Your able to dodge abilities you cant see? Honestly flamethrower engineer would be fine against it, anything else that doesnt have a traited stun break though is in shambles. 

Not really a learn to play issue, it's just a request for better game design lol.  

You can't see a big purple line that's on the ground?  It's extremely easy to dodge it in the sense of not getting pulled.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

2 hours ago, phokus.8934 said:

You can't see a big purple line that's on the ground?  It's extremely easy to dodge it in the sense of not getting pulled.

It is against the wall and doesn't require los to be grabbed by it lol. Can't even see the radius it will grab you from which is sometimes further then it actually really is due to where you are on the server side.

We are probably talking about 2 different scenarios when it comes to its use.

Think a lot of you are just lucky enough to not be on a outnumbered server 80% of the time where there are multiple pulls happening  to have this not be a issue where you are always 1 of the few always effected. Or probably dont play WvW at all.

The just dodge the line answer doesnt work when it doesnt have to be placed in sight to be effective lol.

Edited May 19, 2022 by iKeostuKen.2738

[lblazer.5381]

4 hours ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

It is against the wall and doesn't require los to be grabbed by it lol. Can't even see the radius it will grab you from which is sometimes further then it actually really is due to where you are on the server side.

We are probably talking about 2 different scenarios when it comes to its use.

Think a lot of you are just lucky enough to not be on a outnumbered server 80% of the time where there are multiple pulls happening  to have this not be a issue where you are always 1 of the few always effected. Or probably dont play WvW at all.

The just dodge the line answer doesnt work when it doesnt have to be placed in sight to be effective lol.

the pull can be outside the wall and even if you are behind the wall you can still be pulled, its not like the wall in wvw is 900m.

if there are a lot of mesmer they can actually yank you from bottom of stairs inside of wall to outside of wall if correctly done

 

all i see is lot of people saying that when you hear the audio for the pull  you run lol regardless if you see it or not.

and for a non OP skill why people use it alot

 

if you look at it it more effective for a zerg than having more range damage, you just have to chain those pull and it will still pull people out from a zerg

[ZDragon.3046]

17 hours ago, phokus.8934 said:

You can't see a big purple line that's on the ground?  It's extremely easy to dodge it in the sense of not getting pulled.

The reason someone gave you the confusion emoji is because they would like you to provide evidenced of you dodging the pull accurately from several different people even in a 1 on 1 where you have all the concentration on them we want to see your dodge ratios on this claim. 

 

Please provide us with that video to back up your claim of how easy it is.

[viquing.8254]

If the issue is only in WvW + on a dedicated situation, I don't know if it's good to rework a skill only around this.

By the way it's already a dead skill for me on game modes I play so I didn't care much about more or less dead it is.

[katte nici.9483]

1 hour ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

The reason someone gave you the confusion emoji is because they would like you to provide evidenced of you dodging the pull accurately from several different people even in a 1 on 1 where you have all the concentration on them we want to see your dodge ratios on this claim. 

 

Please provide us with that video to back up your claim of how easy it is.

In 1v1 you use the about 1 second grace period you have to move out of range of the pull or if that't not possible you dodge out of range right after that because that's when 90% of the people will activate the pull. So at most they get a dodge out of it. If they manage to pull you it's because you were out of dodges, blinds, stability etc. and they deserve to get you.

[ZDragon.3046]

1 minute ago, katte nici.9483 said:

In 1v1 you use the about 1 second grace period you have to move out of range of the pull or if that't not possible you dodge out of range right after that because that's when 90% of the people will activate the pull. So at most they get a dodge out of it. If they manage to pull you it's because you were out of dodges, blinds, stability etc. and they deserve to get you.

1s grace period..... I dont think thats why the 1s cd exists also interesting choice of words..... none the less!

We would still very much like to see video proof of you doing this consistently. Because according to the.... its easy we ask but a simple task. Prove thy claim and dodge yee purple walls consistently to show us how its done.

[semak.7481]

Holy conolly,  why all these terrible at the game ppl are having an intercourse with a corpse ?! 🙀

[ZDragon.3046]

1 hour ago, semak.7481 said:

Holy conolly,  why all these terrible at the game ppl are having an intercourse with a corpse ?! 🙀

its 2022 for gaslighting purposes cause its all people do these days.

[Senqu.8054]

Stop destroying this game kitten. maybe… Just maybe games need such elements to make it more interesting? 

 

Tell me please how people dodge steal? How people dodge judges intervention? How people bait interrupt mantra? And what not else is out there with instant cast. 
 

Even in Card Games are random elements which are kinda unpredictable and need to be guessed by the players. What is this with this community to have the urge to complain about everything that is even only slightly unique? It’s like playing uno but complaining about +4 cards like a little kid.
 

We should create a PvP arena in SAB for people like this.

[ZDragon.3046]

25 minutes ago, Senqu.8054 said:

Stop destroying this game kitten. maybe… Just maybe games need such elements to make it more interesting? 

 

Tell me please how people dodge steal? How people dodge judges intervention? How people bait interrupt mantra? And what not else is out there with instant cast. 
 

Even in Card Games are random elements which are kinda unpredictable and need to be guessed by the players. What is this with this community to have the urge to complain about everything that is even only slightly unique? It’s like playing uno but complaining about +4 cards like a little kid.
 

We should create a PvP arena in SAB for people like this.

dodging steal is similar to trying to dodge the pull you dodge and its rng the pull is just less rng because its a period of 4s where as steal is anytime till you see it happen which then you know you are free for the next 20ish seconds or so.

At least you acknowlage the fact that dodging the pull is rng based thank goodness someone understands. At least I KNOW YOU actually play the game and understand better than most. 

 

The biggest difference though is that one

steal is a profession mechanic and not a common weapon skill

Judges intervention is a utility skill and not a common weapon skill

Power lock (the interrupt mantra) is a utility skill and not a weapon skill

Should instant cast abilities that cc be weapon skills or do you think it might be fair for a ranged pull to have a better indicator of when its going to pull? 

The best argument made so far against the focus pull has been skills like guardians shield 5 and engi shield 4 which is a instant cc knock back that goes based on the player location not some other location at range.  Those also have less ranger than the focus pull and require the player to be close to the thing they want to cc. Even reaper shroud fear can be hard to dodge but the reaper has to be standing on you to hit it. So is it worth adjusting to make it easier to react to or should it be changed who knows. But if you really want people to stop complaining as you call it these are the things you should be considering instead of just saying everyone cries too much. Some people actually do play the game and understand how the skills work others are just hear to gaslight.