Let's talk about the focus pull

[mortrialus.3062]

6 minutes ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

honestly its not that big a deal but it would be healthy for anet to adjust it on the idealism that they have adjusted other things that caused lots of frustration for similar reasons necro shroud fear 3 being one of them. 

I cant speak for other people here but im less bothered about getting pulled off a wall into a zerg by any random skill and more. bothered by when a mesmer shows up as a +1 and i go from winning a fight to losing  because I couldn't read a cc that has no tell other than you should move 600 units away from where its placed. Its a bit more personal when you actually can notice it and still not be able to react to it other than applying boons to yourself or blocking in advance to guarantee it wont effect you. 
I can see why people would think you can just self boon or use a stunbreak and that makes it ok the way it is but meh i tend to disagree. 

So far the best argument ive seen here is the comment that references other instant cc like engi shield push and guardian shield push but those radiate out from the characters location and one of them has a much smaller range which in a way kinda helps balance them out imo. 

I dont expect anet to change the focus skill but if we were gonna talk about it i wanted to point out why it frustrates me personally and what i think would be the best solution and healthier overall for the game without changing it too much. 

No one cares about WvW. 

It's deliberately unbalanced.  

It's deliberately designed to be unbalanced. It's deliberately designed to where individual fights don't have any real impact on success, or rewards. 

Comeback when ranked SPvP or MATs are flooded with focus memsers. 

kitten WvW.  Play a PvP mode that actually is a PvP mode. 

In terms of competitive PvP, it's bad.  Barely better than Sword OH memser bad. Functionally unviable.

Edited May 3, 2022 by mortrialus.3062

[Justine.6351]

2 hours ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

honestly its not that big a deal but it would be healthy for anet to adjust it on the idealism that they have adjusted other things that caused lots of frustration for similar reasons necro shroud fear 3 being one of them. 

I cant speak for other people here but im less bothered about getting pulled off a wall into a zerg by any random skill and more. bothered by when a mesmer shows up as a +1 and i go from winning a fight to losing  because I couldn't read a cc that has no tell other than you should move 600 units away from where its placed. Its a bit more personal when you actually can notice it and still not be able to react to it other than applying boons to yourself or blocking in advance to guarantee it wont effect you. 
I can see why people would think you can just self boon or use a stunbreak and that makes it ok the way it is but meh i tend to disagree. 

So far the best argument ive seen here is the comment that references other instant cc like engi shield push and guardian shield push but those radiate out from the characters location and one of them has a much smaller range which in a way kinda helps balance them out imo. 

I dont expect anet to change the focus skill but if we were gonna talk about it i wanted to point out why it frustrates me personally and what i think would be the best solution and healthier overall for the game without changing it too much. 

You lost a fight cause "instant" tc pull but totally not because you got outnumbered? Lol ok... we cannot help these non mesmers I guess. Cast time on shroud activation when? Tired of getting instant 600 aoe boon stripped by necros who just pop traited shroud, zero counter play.

[Justine.6351]

6 hours ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

I was using TC last night for wall pulls and it required 0 Los, was still getting pulls. Regardless of it theres LoS or not the TC 100% work unlike other pulls. And spectral grasp is countered quite frequently, luckily nothing happens if you try to wall pull aside from just getting thrown into the wall. Idk about hearing TC since theres no way to know if it's a teammates or enemies, not reliable enough.

 

Not much is really given up for running focus either in a zerg setting, usually you run shield as the weapon swap and when roaming you put on torch or whatever else.

If the range of the pull was nerfed or given some visuals to let people know they were being effected by it, or heck even slowly pull them to the chained spot and not let them leave it, it would still be effective when defending objectives, especially when traited. 

Yeah GS 5 used to be a pain, think the only time I get yanked by that now is through the gate at a tower or keep. But it never pulled me from the other edge of a wall off the side.

I said the more los the less likely tc will give a wall pull. Not that it didn't require los. And lol, spectral grasp has all the same counters except it is a projectile.

 

You guys are behaving like into the Void some menacing evil button mesmers hold their finger over waiting for their moment. 9 out of 10 tc casts are immediately closed for the pull. When you see or hear it just dodge. The other 1 out of 10 are just left on the ground because swiftness and cripple are op apparently.

 

I legit want to see these magical "pulled from totally safe spot" in a clip.

[phokus.8934]

3 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Sometimes I have faith in the mesmer community.

 

Other times they'll keep a nonsense necro thread alive for over as week after it gets bumped arguing straight up nonsense that doesn't matter competitively. 

At this point it won't get changed even if people still can't dodge a big blue line.

[Justine.6351]

4 minutes ago, phokus.8934 said:

At this point it won't get changed even if people still can't dodge a big blue line.

Probably the same people who run into line wards 3x in a row before trying to dodge roll through it and getting cced one more time before it dissappears, blaming it on anet for letting them get cced in an evade frame rofl. "Guys I need stab!".

[viquing.8254]

4 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Sometimes I have faith in the mesmer community.

 

Other times they'll keep a nonsense necro thread alive for over as week after it gets bumped arguing straight up nonsense that doesn't matter competitively. 

I lost faith on mesmer community when they were arguing to destroy anything but shatter gameplay.

 

@ZDragon.3046 :

More seriously, as long as there is a 1 sec CD after you put the curtain before activating the pull, you have 1 to 5 sec to either :

- go out of range. (any normal evade should do the trick, the most easier to do.)

- put you on a terrain block path.

- blind the mes.

- put some stab.

- trigger some block/aegis.

- aoe spam destroy illusions so that even if he grab he can't do anything.

- just getting grab because : 1) you know that the mes will burst just after so you can predict the following because everything that will follow the grab is highly telegraphed or 2) you know that the mes hasn't any following so it didn't matter.

 

Mean when I look at the following when hard CCed by mes, it's 90% shatter which mean illusions setups or casting blade.

We are far from a melee point-blank shot or a stomp under quickness who take away 60% of your life if you didn't see it coming. Same for all other 0 to 1 sec cast hard CC from meta classes.

 

And more importantly, when I face a mesmer with a focus, I just pewpew it from range as he can literraly do nothing but getting hit when equiping this weapon.

[Mik.3401]

8 hours ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

Necro shroud fear has a tell now though it use to not to have any tells at al land would just come out instantly. People got frustrated about that and anet nerfed it to have a cast time which you actually can react too. 

The only cc you have a real right to complain about having little tell on necro is the staff 5 and I would agree that it needs a tweak in that regard. 

Focus 5's attack is irrelevant in this conversation

Port burst are irrelevant in this conversation (revs port has a tell btw its the same animation start up as bulls charge)

Just because its a niche weapon does not also give it the right to keep something that causes wide spread frustration that could be fixed with something like a half second tell. Similar to necro's shroud fear skill. The fact that you even still bring up shroud fear tells you how effective skill can still be despite the change so why would you think the focus pull would be any different? Ideally it would be a nerf for people who are very observant due to it have a consistent tell to look out for like every other cc in the game and it wouldn't change at all for people who are not. 

Im sorry but it sitting there for 5s is not a tell. HOWEVER, If the skill pulled at a fixed time at which you could not control then yes i would 100% agree with you that would be a learn to play issue, but that is not the case you control when the pull activates so unless you are going to tell me how to dodge it accurately 99% of the time when I see it on the ground over that corse of 4-5 seconds like I can every other cc that actually has proper tells then no its not a L2P issue. Do i dodge on second 1 after i see it or second 4 just as its about to vanish or perhaps second 2 or 3 somewhere in the middle? How do I predict this if I'm watching closely?  If you can show me that you can accurately dodge it 99% of the time from a wide range of different players  like other types of cc ill agree with you if not its not a L2P issue thats more or less just the facts. 

Even if anet does not change it thats part of what causes the frustration that leads to forum post like this.... this is not the first skill thats behaved like this in gw2's history and everyone of them that has is usually a frustration generator in competitive modes for the reason that you cannot consistently react to them no matter how decent of a player you are. The best solution is brute forcing it with boons that negate it entirely and thats not a good thing considering its just a weapon skill. 

I guess im sorry to digress about other skills with no tell. The focus 4 curtain is placed for good couple seconds on the ground indeed. This exactly gives time to consider it and manoeuvre away. Just like you need to react when you see necro going into shroud or see herald teleporting in front of you.  I’m any of these cases you either react or face big spike.

It is a l2p issue because I don’t really see any Mesmers in higher ranks let alone ones using focus. Once in blue moon one can appear but that means it is a really good player who would win mostly due to their skill.

that’s why calling for nerf seems strange, it doesn’t affect the meta in any way - meta with lots of stab 

[Za Shaloc.3908]

7 hours ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

 bothered by when a mesmer shows up as a +1 and i go from winning a fight to losing  because I couldn't read a cc that has no tell other than you should move 600 units away from where its placed. Its a bit more personal when you actually can notice it and still not be able to react to it other than applying boons to yourself or blocking in advance to guarantee it wont effect you. 

  

I don't think that being frustrated by a Mes +1ing you with the skill is the fairest or most compelling of criteria. Every class has oppressive ways of +1ing a fight that will make it hard to respond to and recover from. Tbh I would think that Moa would be at the top of the list considering it locks you out of your skills and can be covered by stealth. 

 

Focus Pull is really only oppressive in terms of how it enables damage bombs in organized groups in WvW. It farms unaware or poorly built pugs, and I get that it can be frustrating to fight against when you instadie from a coordinated spike. But it is a skill that has its own fair of downsides and, in the grand scheme of themes, is on a class that has a totally niche role in the game mode. The 1 second ICD before you can use the pull allows for plenty of counterplay to the skill. Enough for it not to warrant any nerfs whatsoever. At least in my eyes.

 

I could see an argument to give it a better visual as it can get a bit lost amongst other animations. Perhaps give it a bit of a faint ethereal curtain-like effect above the field to better identify it and also distinguish it from Veil. 

[iKeostuKen.2738]

11 hours ago, phokus.8934 said:

1 second activation timer on a 4 second duration skill that can be dodged, blocked, blinded, and negated with stability and you want more counterplay?

Serious learn to play issues here.

Pretty sure if it can be used without line of sight only 1 of those is an actual counter. And it still serves the question,  how do I know I should be using my stability or block while in a group of more then 5 to not get pulled.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

6 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

I said the more los the less likely tc will give a wall pull. Not that it didn't require los. And lol, spectral grasp has all the same counters except it is a projectile.

 

You guys are behaving like into the Void some menacing evil button mesmers hold their finger over waiting for their moment. 9 out of 10 tc casts are immediately closed for the pull. When you see or hear it just dodge. The other 1 out of 10 are just left on the ground because swiftness and cripple are op apparently.

 

I legit want to see these magical "pulled from totally safe spot" in a clip.

The difference doesnt matter, itl still work the same. And no, spectral grasp requires line of sight or it wont pull. The pull is a lot stronger though if it does hit.

The problem is you dont have to see it as it doesnt have to be placed insight for you to be grabbed by it. Hearing it and seeing it also doesnt really matter if it's in a zerg setting since you cant really tell if it's your teams or the enemies TC. So chances are you wasting a dodge or stab. Easiest solution is to just add a visual effect to the 5 selected, if it glows your about to be pulled.

[Justine.6351]

1 hour ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

The difference doesnt matter, itl still work the same. And no, spectral grasp requires line of sight or it wont pull. The pull is a lot stronger though if it does hit.

The problem is you dont have to see it as it doesnt have to be placed insight for you to be grabbed by it. Hearing it and seeing it also doesnt really matter if it's in a zerg setting since you cant really tell if it's your teams or the enemies TC. So chances are you wasting a dodge or stab. Easiest solution is to just add a visual effect to the 5 selected, if it glows your about to be pulled.

Well you can't hear spectral grasp so it is broken and needs to be nerfed clearly. Thinking they could have the grasping hand projectile come up to the player and wave while saying "get over here" and then 1 second later execute the pull.

And again this los thing lol. Necro is the king of cleaving through los obstructions. Maybe anet needs to apply los to necro marks and pbaoe as well. You know, no more hitting people on walls with marks for example. Be careful what you ask for.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

44 minutes ago, Justine.6351 said:

Well you can't hear spectral grasp so it is broken and needs to be nerfed clearly. Thinking they could have the grasping hand projectile come up to the player and wave while saying "get over here" and then 1 second later execute the pull.

And again this los thing lol. Necro is the king of cleaving through los obstructions. Maybe anet needs to apply los to necro marks and pbaoe as well. You know, no more hitting people on walls with marks for example. Be careful what you ask for.

You can see spectral grasp coming at you, it can be obstructed by a simple shift in terrain, and has a slow travel time.

Mark's range is also visible.

The skills you are comparing TC too all have fair mechanics for counter play that doesnt have you playing the guessing game on when and if they will hit you. You see if it is.

[Justine.6351]

2 minutes ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

You can see spectral grasp coming at you, it can be obstructed by a simple shift in terrain, and has a slow travel time.

Mark's range is also visible.

The skills you are comparing TC too all have fair mechanics for counter play that doesnt have you playing the guessing game on when and if they will hit you. You see if it is.

you don't get to see marks if they are dropped on your head while wall defending. Yes they need to be nerfed immediately. Also need to nerf all of necro pbaoe to respect los because when I am repairing gates they hit me. It does make logical sense for a solid gate to let necro damage through to hit me. Its unfair mechanic I cant see or hear.

[Pugsley.9627]

It has one of most obvious tells in the game with one of the loudest persistent sounds, not featured in my video just my reaction to previous statements about no tell. turn your sound up. look around. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Pugsley.9627

[phokus.8934]

8 hours ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

Pretty sure if it can be used without line of sight only 1 of those is an actual counter. And it still serves the question,  how do I know I should be using my stability or block while in a group of more then 5 to not get pulled.

It ignores LoS and had a 600u range.

And all of those are counters...

Situational awareness is a thing, you know.

[Justine.6351]

5 hours ago, Pugsley.9627 said:

It has one of most obvious tells in the game with one of the loudest persistent sounds, not featured in my video just my reaction to previous statements about no tell. turn your sound up. look around. 

I run power block and sigil of draining so if my pulls interrupt I get kill credit on falling deaths 😂

[Mik.3401]

I can seen the proponents of temp curtain nerfs have now just resorted to confused reactions while faced with valid points 👌 that’s a /thread

[Mobian.8256]

[Edit]

 

Wait I just realized this post was from 2019 and suddenly I don't care. Whoever brought this post back; why

Edited May 4, 2022 by Mobian.8256

[iKeostuKen.2738]

1 hour ago, phokus.8934 said:

It ignores LoS and had a 600u range.

And all of those are counters...

Situational awareness is a thing, you know.

"Situational awareness" when you dont even see the TC because it doesnt have to be placed in sight. 🤦‍♂️ To tired to understand if you all are being serious or not.

Like no duh they are counters but it's the fact you dont know that you need to use them because there is no indication of the ability even being there or effecting you. It's not telegraphed in the way that its used.

[phokus.8934]

2 minutes ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

"Situational awareness" when you dont even see the TC because it doesnt have to be placed in sight. 🤦‍♂️ To tired to understand if you all are being serious or not.

Like no duh they are counters but it's the fact you dont know that you need to use them because there is no indication of the ability even being there or effecting you. It's not telegraphed in the way that its used.

Everything about your post is not serious.  Strictly speaking about wvw, if you see a Mesmer coming close to a wall, don't stand there.  If you see a blob near a wall, don't stand there.  If you see TC in the middle of a fight, active defense works exceedingly well.  So yeah, situational awareness will save you more than shroud.

Like I said, Enter the Void has a 1 second grace period before being used and then there's a 3 second window for it being used.  If you're seriously having a hard time playing around it then it's very simply a learn to play issue.  I get it, you want the game to hand hold you through everything and not have to think about when to use abilities but that takes the whole skill part out of the game.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Is there anyone who uses focus in competitive modes apart from wvw wall pull? 

Focus is bad af. Phantasm was good until the phantasm rework, nowadays is trash, and if you want a cc just go pistol. 

[iKeostuKen.2738]

4 minutes ago, phokus.8934 said:

Everything about your post is not serious.  Strictly speaking about wvw, if you see a Mesmer coming close to a wall, don't stand there.  If you see a blob near a wall, don't stand there.  If you see TC in the middle of a fight, active defense works exceedingly well.  So yeah, situational awareness will save you more than shroud.

Like I said, Enter the Void has a 1 second grace period before being used and then there's a 3 second window for it being used.  If you're seriously having a hard time playing around it then it's very simply a learn to play issue.  I get it, you want the game to hand hold you through everything and not have to think about when to use abilities but that takes the whole skill part out of the game.

What about my post isnt serious? With that logic thieves should go back to 1 shotting backstabs because its all about situational awareness 🤔.

When you say if you see a blob near a wall dont stand there, realize your pretty much saying that defending the structure is near impossible in that case. Even if you stand on the most opposite edge of the wall with 1 foot off the edge you can still get pulled. Readding the fact that you still do not know if you are being 1 of the players being yanked by it.

The seconds or the amount of time doesnt matter because you cant see it in the way it is being used where it's at it's most lethal. Not understanding what is so hard to comprehend about that.

 

[Justine.6351]

16 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Is there anyone who uses focus in competitive modes apart from wvw wall pull? 

Focus is bad af. Phantasm was good until the phantasm rework, nowadays is trash, and if you want a cc just go pistol. 

I use it traited in wvw (both the reflect and power block). Not traited its horribad. The phantasm is there for about .5 seconds before someone looks at it rofl.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

15 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Is there anyone who uses focus in competitive modes apart from wvw wall pull? 

Focus is bad af. Phantasm was good until the phantasm rework, nowadays is trash, and if you want a cc just go pistol. 

For choke fights or just supporting a zerg with some projectile hate I find it useful. It's a situational support weapon like mostly all focuses function in the game.

Could it use some good buffs though, yeah. That phantasm is pretty garbo.

[Justine.6351]

1 minute ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

For choke fights or just supporting a zerg with some projectile hate I find it useful. It's a situational support weapon like mostly all focuses function in the game.

Could it use some good buffs though, yeah. That phantasm is pretty garbo.

I would be fine with them just leaving it alone. They break everything they touch.

Stick to staff necro zerging.