Let's talk about the focus pull

[Aufklarer.4013]

The mesmer pull is not op because it is a pull, other classes can pull as well. The problem with mesmer pull is how it actually acts. All other pulls get obstructed unless target is on the edge of the wall. The mesmer pull not only that it doesn t recieve the "obstructed" issue it also throws ppl off the wall. You can stay on opposite site of the wall, if you do not have aeagis or happen to have stability that very moment you will be lift up and pass the other side of the wall. That is the issue that needs addressing... after so many years it continues to work in a broken way.... dissapointing.....

[Salt Mode.3780]

24 minutes ago, Aufklarer.4013 said:

The mesmer pull is not op because it is a pull, other classes can pull as well. The problem with mesmer pull is how it actually acts. All other pulls get obstructed unless target is on the edge of the wall. The mesmer pull not only that it doesn t recieve the "obstructed" issue it also throws ppl off the wall. You can stay on opposite site of the wall, if you do not have aeagis or happen to have stability that very moment you will be lift up and pass the other side of the wall. That is the issue that needs addressing... after so many years it continues to work in a broken way.... dissapointing.....

For a pull that has a visual que and a sound que along with the fact that there is a cast time this really isn't a problem. The reason why it functions this way is because it drags the target to the center without a projectile to pull, this also includes FB F1 skill 3 or even gravity well. 

It is working as intended stop making it seem like its something more when it isn't. 

Unlike most pulls it is an AoE that drags center where as most pulls drags you to the caster directly. There is ups and downs to both pulls, spot the difference.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[JunkJunk.8971]

Why necro this 3 year old post

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

delete this

Edited April 26, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Terrorhuz.4695]

I got mem'd by the necroposting, it seems

Edited April 26, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Levetty.1279]

On 4/26/2022 at 12:18 AM, JunkJunk.8971 said:

Why necro this 3 year old post

Mesmer has a somewhat useful build again (Virt dps build in instanced pve) so its time to start the old 'Mesmer is OP everywhere and Anet's favourite class' posts.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

Honestly I feel like it needs to be nerfed. The range at which I'm grabbed is beyond ridiculous especially if I cant even see myself getting effected by it before it happens. 

Either add a ethereal chain effect like DH/SpBreak and every other ingame pull or reduce its range.

 

Literally getting pulled from the bottom of the stairs in towers all the way to the gate (when its closed). Or yanked far off the side of a wall when I'm one foot off the edge on the other side, but when I do it with my telegraphed pulls the enemues are glued to the edge of it like a npc. 

[Ausar.9542]

I want to try this out. My Mesmer is my least played class. I want more from it

[iKeostuKen.2738]

2 hours ago, Ausar.9542 said:

I want to try this out. My Mesmer is my least played class. I want more from it

When you do try a staff 5 ontop of downs in WvW or a feedback ontop of a blob, and mimicing it into another feedback after the first one is over.

 

I wanna try this with chronomancer to see if I can get 4 feedbacks up. It's such a fun class if you find ways to get the most out of its utilities and just see numbers all over the place. 

[Justine.6351]

I do like the ethereal chain idea. Have them dynamically visualize the specific 5 targets that will be pulled at any given moment if into the Void would be activated. It would be a better tell when the temporal curtain isn't in line of sight.

 

Although given Anet's track record, they would probably rework the skill at the same time to something nobody asked for.

[ZDragon.3046]

I think i got where the OP is coming from though its not really over powered imo because its a pull with questionable range.

The fact that its a pull WITH NO REACTABLE TELL. The there is no way to react to with with a dodge and for a weapon skill that is actually rather busted. Most utility pulls still have a visual tied to them even the faint ones like spectral grasp. Focus's large and questionable  questionable range does not really help the situation either so its quite easy to understand why people might be frustrated by it. The only other pull I can think that works that way is spear of justice but you have to be hit by it first for that to apply and the act of throwing it has a tell that most people can react to in this day and age so its also kind of irrelevant here.

Yes you can use boons to counter mesmer focus pull but thats kind of not the point you can use boons to counter every other pull in the game and they all have tells tied to them meaning you can also opt to just dodge on reaction. 99% of the time if you pay attention. How ever when it comes to the mesmer focus pull you cannot do this.

The wall being on the ground just sits there you can dodge when you see it but I promise most people probably still get yanked because you are dodging it on rng based on if the player presses the pull effect instantly or near the end of the walls duration or perhaps somewhere in the middle... who knows...

The best thing they can do is just give the wall on the ground flash or something a half second before it actually pulls which would give people something visually to they can react to. Doing that alone should make it more or less equal to every other weapon skill pull in the game. They dont need to nerf the cd or its pull range they just need to give it a more proper tell. 

I think doing anything else to it would be a straight up nerf but if people want that over something like this really dont have much more to say about it.

This is my 2 cents on it. Give it a tell update and its fine in pvp and wvw and if you still get yanked after that then well you were not being observant enough.

Edited May 3, 2022 by ZDragon.3046

[Justine.6351]

48 minutes ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

I think i got where the OP is coming from though its not really over powered imo because its a pull with questionable range.

The fact that its a pull WITH NO REACTABLE TELL. The there is no way to react to with with a dodge and for a weapon skill that is actually rather busted. Most utility pulls still have a visual tied to them even the faint ones like spectral grasp. Focus's large and questionable  questionable range does not really help the situation either so its quite easy to understand why people might be frustrated by it. The only other pull I can think that works that way is spear of justice but you have to be hit by it first for that to apply and the act of throwing it has a tell that most people can react to in this day and age so its also kind of irrelevant here.

Yes you can use boons to counter mesmer focus pull but thats kind of not the point you can use boons to counter every other pull in the game and they all have tells tied to them meaning you can also opt to just dodge on reaction. 99% of the time if you pay attention. How ever when it comes to the mesmer focus pull you cannot do this.

The wall being on the ground just sits there you can dodge when you see it but I promise most people probably still get yanked because you are dodging it on rng based on if the player presses the pull effect instantly or near the end of the walls duration or perhaps somewhere in the middle... who knows...

The best thing they can do is just give the wall on the ground flash or something a half second before it actually pulls which would give people something visually to they can react to. Doing that alone should make it more or less equal to every other weapon skill pull in the game. They dont need to nerf the cd or its pull range they just need to give it a more proper tell. 

I think doing anything else to it would be a straight up nerf but if people want that over something like this really dont have much more to say about it.

This is my 2 cents on it. Give it a tell update and its fine in pvp and wvw and if you still get yanked after that then well you were not being observant enough.

Cant really add a tell to the pull without adding in more delay to the skill, which would be a nerf because now a mesmer cant interrupt using it on anything but the longest cast times. And yes probably 90% of the pulls that are successful with it are exactly 1 second after it is cast, pretty easy to dodge that shimmering purple field with the distinct sound. The fact that temporal curtain is on the ground and can be pulled at any moment is not simply a mesmer benefit as the longer it is up the more time people have to react to the field or be ready to react to the pull.

 

When people tell those complaining about wall pulls to just stunbreak its because those of us who have played the game in a wall defense scenario know the sound and visual of the skill and even if we do get pulled we immediately stunbreak. The other thing we do is preemptively dodge roll piles of marks so that again if we get pulled into them we don't instantly die to them. I can tell people for a fact that I have gotten pulled off a wall by spectral grasp far more often than into the void because lol that requires zero setup. Person gets on edge being greedy, push button at 1200 range and boom instant pull. You don't even need to target them and it will pbaoe pull up to 5 people within 1200 range lol. Doing that with temporal curtain requires 3x more time and a spot within 600 range that will pull the person directly to a location that causes them to fall off the wall.

 

There are a hundred ways for temporal curtain to fail at wall pulling but those magical few times it happens is unfair because "I am too special to die in wvw" mentality. Its not even a guaranteed kill when you do get the pull off the wall rofl...

[iKeostuKen.2738]

21 minutes ago, Justine.6351 said:

Cant really add a tell to the pull without adding in more delay to the skill, which would be a nerf because now a mesmer cant interrupt using it on anything but the longest cast times. And yes probably 90% of the pulls that are successful with it are exactly 1 second after it is cast, pretty easy to dodge that shimmering purple field with the distinct sound. The fact that temporal curtain is on the ground and can be pulled at any moment is not simply a mesmer benefit as the longer it is up the more time people have to react to the field or be ready to react to the pull.

 

When people tell those complaining about wall pulls to just stunbreak its because those of us who have played the game in a wall defense scenario know the sound and visual of the skill and even if we do get pulled we immediately stunbreak. The other thing we do is preemptively dodge roll piles of marks so that again if we get pulled into them we don't instantly die to them. I can tell people for a fact that I have gotten pulled off a wall by spectral grasp far more often than into the void because lol that requires zero setup. Person gets on edge being greedy, push button at 1200 range and boom instant pull. You don't even need to target them and it will pbaoe pull up to 5 people within 1200 range lol. Doing that with temporal curtain requires 3x more time and a spot within 600 range that will pull the person directly to a location that causes them to fall off the wall.

 

There are a hundred ways for temporal curtain to fail at wall pulling but those magical few times it happens is unfair because "I am too special to die in wvw" mentality. Its not even a guaranteed kill when you do get the pull off the wall rofl...

Probably the worse way to think about it imo. Regardless of if you can stun break it or counter play it with luck, you still dont know if your the one getting targeted by it and I've lost cost the amount of times I get yanked when I'm on the opposite edge of the wall and get pulled off completely into a sea of AoEs that dont even have a tell of what they are.

 

Not to mention the server issues of when you are mid dodge and still get pulled by an enemy skill. 

[Justine.6351]

2 minutes ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

Probably the worse way to think about it imo. Regardless of if you can stun break it or counter play it with luck, you still dont know if your the one getting targeted by it and I've lost cost the amount of times I get yanked when I'm on the opposite edge of the wall and get pulled off completely into a sea of AoEs that dont even have a tell of what they are.

 

Not to mention the server issues of when you are mid dodge and still get pulled by an enemy skill. 

Sooo...you are saying its everything but temporal curtain...

[iKeostuKen.2738]

2 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

Sooo...you are saying its everything but temporal curtain...

Lol no. More like temporal curtain is made even more of a problem due to the game's systems. I was specially talking about the 2nd paragraph where the solution is to just stun break something you have no clue is even there. Split second reaction to something that shouldn't even really be grabbing you because you have 0 clue it's there a lot of the time.

When it comes to spectral grasp and other similar pulls vs temporal curtain the difference is line of sight is needed. Spectral grasp grabbing you is fairer than curtain grabbing you as you can see and even actively counter it. And while the tooltip says 600, I am positive that its pull range is further. Especially considering the ways that I have gotten grabbed.e

[Justine.6351]

7 minutes ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

Lol no. More like temporal curtain is made even more of a problem due to the game's systems. I was specially talking about the 2nd paragraph where the solution is to just stun break something you have no clue is even there. Split second reaction to something that shouldn't even really be grabbing you because you have 0 clue it's there a lot of the time.

When it comes to spectral grasp and other similar pulls vs temporal curtain the difference is line of sight is needed. Spectral grasp grabbing you is fairer than curtain grabbing you as you can see and even actively counter it. And while the tooltip says 600, I am positive that its pull range is further. Especially considering the ways that I have gotten grabbed.e

Because everyone always sees every cc that hits them before it lands.

Again with this los requirement thing. The less los the less likely tc will even wall pull. Nobody ever actively countered a spectral grasp wall pull but I assure you the second you hear tc you are dodgerolling backwards. If people cant hear or see tc they sure as heck are not going to dodge spectral grasp. Its 600 range pull, I tested it instead of "feels like" debating it.

 

People that want tc nerfed have never actually played focus offhand because if they had they would know just how random the skill's benefits are most of the time and how much they give up to not run torch or shield instead.

Fun fact, you can actually defend objectives with temporal curtain. So don't go crippling your own team because you once got unlikely "magic pulled" from a spot you were "totally" safe at.

 

If you want an example of another pull skill that doesn't require los then look no further than reaper greatsword. Well it used to anyhow. Haven't been pulled by that in a long time.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

7 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

Because everyone always sees every cc that hits them before it lands.

Again with this los requirement thing. The less los the less likely tc will even wall pull. Nobody ever actively countered a spectral grasp wall pull but I assure you the second you hear tc you are dodgerolling backwards. If people cant hear or see tc they sure as heck are not going to dodge spectral grasp. Its 600 range pull, I tested it instead of "feels like" debating it.

 

People that want tc nerfed have never actually played focus offhand because if they had they would know just how random the skill's benefits are most of the time and how much they give up to not run torch or shield instead.

Fun fact, you can actually defend objectives with temporal curtain. So don't go crippling your own team because you once got unlikely "magic pulled" from a spot you were "totally" safe at.

 

If you want an example of another pull skill that doesn't require los then look no further than reaper greatsword. Well it used to anyhow. Haven't been pulled by that in a long time.

I was using TC last night for wall pulls and it required 0 Los, was still getting pulls. Regardless of it theres LoS or not the TC 100% work unlike other pulls. And spectral grasp is countered quite frequently, luckily nothing happens if you try to wall pull aside from just getting thrown into the wall. Idk about hearing TC since theres no way to know if it's a teammates or enemies, not reliable enough.

 

Not much is really given up for running focus either in a zerg setting, usually you run shield as the weapon swap and when roaming you put on torch or whatever else.

If the range of the pull was nerfed or given some visuals to let people know they were being effected by it, or heck even slowly pull them to the chained spot and not let them leave it, it would still be effective when defending objectives, especially when traited. 

Yeah GS 5 used to be a pain, think the only time I get yanked by that now is through the gate at a tower or keep. But it never pulled me from the other edge of a wall off the side.

[phokus.8934]

1 second activation timer on a 4 second duration skill that can be dodged, blocked, blinded, and negated with stability and you want more counterplay?

Serious learn to play issues here.

[ZDragon.3046]

12 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

Cant really add a tell to the pull without adding in more delay to the skill, which would be a nerf because now a mesmer cant interrupt using it on anything but the longest cast times. And yes probably 90% of the pulls that are successful with it are exactly 1 second after it is cast, pretty easy to dodge that shimmering purple field with the distinct sound. The fact that temporal curtain is on the ground and can be pulled at any moment is not simply a mesmer benefit as the longer it is up the more time people have to react to the field or be ready to react to the pull.

 

When people tell those complaining about wall pulls to just stunbreak its because those of us who have played the game in a wall defense scenario know the sound and visual of the skill and even if we do get pulled we immediately stunbreak. The other thing we do is preemptively dodge roll piles of marks so that again if we get pulled into them we don't instantly die to them. I can tell people for a fact that I have gotten pulled off a wall by spectral grasp far more often than into the void because lol that requires zero setup. Person gets on edge being greedy, push button at 1200 range and boom instant pull. You don't even need to target them and it will pbaoe pull up to 5 people within 1200 range lol. Doing that with temporal curtain requires 3x more time and a spot within 600 range that will pull the person directly to a location that causes them to fall off the wall.

 

There are a hundred ways for temporal curtain to fail at wall pulling but those magical few times it happens is unfair because "I am too special to die in wvw" mentality. Its not even a guaranteed kill when you do get the pull off the wall rofl...

Sorry no i dont agree and not every case of frustration applies to wvw either so you need to consider it in spvp too where its also equally frustrating.

Effectively you are arguing against  making the skill with cc like every other cc skill in the game to make it fair yet you wonder why fourm post like these appear? I don't think a half second delay is too much to ask for considering it's not a projectile. As some projectile cc's that pull not only have the half second or quarter second cast they also have the time it takes for the projectile to fly through the air and reach you... i really don't think a half second delay is much of a nerf honestly.

I dont particularly only consider this for walls in wvw but even in normal s pvp where THE WHOLE WALL ARGUMENT IS INVALID. You cannot reaction dodge the pull.  just because most people use it right away does not mean all people will and thus you are dodging it on rng. You should always and i mean ALWAYS have the option to reaction dodge a weapon skill period there is no real argument to be made here. IF it as a utility skill i would give you a bit more wiggle room in your argument but even then its just not fair in comparison to almost every other utility skill in the game.

To be more specific im not a player who is frustrated by it in wvw even if its pulled me off the wall (getting pulled off the wall IS NOT THE PROBLEM) im frustrated by it in pvp too where the fact remains that YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE WHEN ITS REALLY GOING TO PULL YOU.  You can assume when it might but thats just a roll of the dice and skill should not behave like that especially not a simple weapon skill. 

They could literally do anything to to balance the skill out 
Give t a half second flicker or flash before it pulls 
Make always and only pull exactly 1s after you place it (the player no longer has the choice of when it pulls)

Again i dont care about being pulled off a wall in wvw I do care about the fact that some one can place it and cannot dodge it effectively on reaction at the same rate as other cc skills that have consistent tells.  If you want complaints like this to stop you make the skill fair and if you still get yanked after that like i siad then you just are not observant enough or you got out played but lets stop trying to defend the fact that its mechanically unhealthy.  

Edited May 3, 2022 by ZDragon.3046

[Mik.3401]

14 hours ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

I think i got where the OP is coming from though its not really over powered imo because its a pull with questionable range.

The fact that its a pull WITH NO REACTABLE TELL. The there is no way to react to with with a dodge and for a weapon skill that is actually rather busted. Most utility pulls still have a visual tied to them even the faint ones like spectral grasp. Focus's large and questionable  questionable range does not really help the situation either so its quite easy to understand why people might be frustrated by it. The only other pull I can think that works that way is spear of justice but you have to be hit by it first for that to apply and the act of throwing it has a tell that most people can react to in this day and age so its also kind of irrelevant here.

Yes you can use boons to counter mesmer focus pull but thats kind of not the point you can use boons to counter every other pull in the game and they all have tells tied to them meaning you can also opt to just dodge on reaction. 99% of the time if you pay attention. How ever when it comes to the mesmer focus pull you cannot do this.

The wall being on the ground just sits there you can dodge when you see it but I promise most people probably still get yanked because you are dodging it on rng based on if the player presses the pull effect instantly or near the end of the walls duration or perhaps somewhere in the middle... who knows...

The best thing they can do is just give the wall on the ground flash or something a half second before it actually pulls which would give people something visually to they can react to. Doing that alone should make it more or less equal to every other weapon skill pull in the game. They dont need to nerf the cd or its pull range they just need to give it a more proper tell. 

I think doing anything else to it would be a straight up nerf but if people want that over something like this really dont have much more to say about it.

This is my 2 cents on it. Give it a tell update and its fine in pvp and wvw and if you still get yanked after that then well you were not being observant enough.

There’s also little reactive tell to necros couple second fear spam from shroud or heralds/willbenders port through walls+burst. I wouldn’t overestimate the power of Mesmers focus pull. Hardly anyone uses it for a reason.  The cd is relatively high, focus 5 attacks slowly and is so easy to dodge. 
It’s a niche weapon in competitive and it’s range is not even as great as some here suggest. It’s slow and clunky to set-up, plus it shows on the ground before one can use it. If someone cannot counter it it is purely a l2p issue no balance issue.

[viquing.8254]

15 hours ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

I think i got where the OP is coming from though its not really over powered imo because its a pull with questionable range.

The fact that its a pull WITH NO REACTABLE TELL.

That's why everyone run focus in PvP. 😄

Ho wait someone tell me that meta classes bump from point didn't have tells/counter for most of them with NO 2 PART ICD.

AND OR have 2nd kisscool effect way more powerfull than swiftness/cripple.

 

[ZDragon.3046]

49 minutes ago, Mik.3401 said:

There’s also little reactive tell to necros couple second fear spam from shroud or heralds/willbenders port through walls+burst. I wouldn’t overestimate the power of Mesmers focus pull. Hardly anyone uses it for a reason.  The cd is relatively high, focus 5 attacks slowly and is so easy to dodge. 
It’s a niche weapon in competitive and it’s range is not even as great as some here suggest. It’s slow and clunky to set-up, plus it shows on the ground before one can use it. If someone cannot counter it it is purely a l2p issue no balance issue.

Necro shroud fear has a tell now though it use to not to have any tells at al land would just come out instantly. People got frustrated about that and anet nerfed it to have a cast time which you actually can react too. 

The only cc you have a real right to complain about having little tell on necro is the staff 5 and I would agree that it needs a tweak in that regard. 

Focus 5's attack is irrelevant in this conversation

Port burst are irrelevant in this conversation (revs port has a tell btw its the same animation start up as bulls charge)

Just because its a niche weapon does not also give it the right to keep something that causes wide spread frustration that could be fixed with something like a half second tell. Similar to necro's shroud fear skill. The fact that you even still bring up shroud fear tells you how effective skill can still be despite the change so why would you think the focus pull would be any different? Ideally it would be a nerf for people who are very observant due to it have a consistent tell to look out for like every other cc in the game and it wouldn't change at all for people who are not. 

Im sorry but it sitting there for 5s is not a tell. HOWEVER, If the skill pulled at a fixed time at which you could not control then yes i would 100% agree with you that would be a learn to play issue, but that is not the case you control when the pull activates so unless you are going to tell me how to dodge it accurately 99% of the time when I see it on the ground over that corse of 4-5 seconds like I can every other cc that actually has proper tells then no its not a L2P issue. Do i dodge on second 1 after i see it or second 4 just as its about to vanish or perhaps second 2 or 3 somewhere in the middle? How do I predict this if I'm watching closely?  If you can show me that you can accurately dodge it 99% of the time from a wide range of different players  like other types of cc ill agree with you if not its not a L2P issue thats more or less just the facts. 

Even if anet does not change it thats part of what causes the frustration that leads to forum post like this.... this is not the first skill thats behaved like this in gw2's history and everyone of them that has is usually a frustration generator in competitive modes for the reason that you cannot consistently react to them no matter how decent of a player you are. The best solution is brute forcing it with boons that negate it entirely and thats not a good thing considering its just a weapon skill. 

[ZDragon.3046]

30 minutes ago, viquing.8254 said:

That's why everyone run focus in PvP. 😄

Ho wait someone tell me that meta classes bump from point didn't have tells/counter for most of them with NO 2 PART ICD.

AND OR have 2nd kisscool effect way more powerfull than swiftness/cripple.

 

I dont think its fair to say everyone runs it i wouldn't even say that but ive seen it enough to know that some people do run it.

I can only assume you are referring to the mess that is engi and some times guard with their shield skills. lol Yeah both of those are almost in the same boat with some notable differences though. Engi shield is a rather large mess of problems far worse than focus pull though ill admit that out right. 

[mortrialus.3062]

Sometimes I have faith in the mesmer community.

 

Other times they'll keep a nonsense necro thread alive for over as week after it gets bumped arguing straight up nonsense that doesn't matter competitively. 

[ZDragon.3046]

34 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Sometimes I have faith in the mesmer community.

 

Other times they'll keep a nonsense necro thread alive for over as week after it gets bumped arguing straight up nonsense that doesn't matter competitively. 

honestly its not that big a deal but it would be healthy for anet to adjust it on the idealism that they have adjusted other things that caused lots of frustration for similar reasons necro shroud fear 3 being one of them. 

I cant speak for other people here but im less bothered about getting pulled off a wall into a zerg by any random skill and more. bothered by when a mesmer shows up as a +1 and i go from winning a fight to losing  because I couldn't read a cc that has no tell other than you should move 600 units away from where its placed. Its a bit more personal when you actually can notice it and still not be able to react to it other than applying boons to yourself or blocking in advance to guarantee it wont effect you. 
I can see why people would think you can just self boon or use a stunbreak and that makes it ok the way it is but meh i tend to disagree. 

So far the best argument ive seen here is the comment that references other instant cc like engi shield push and guardian shield push but those radiate out from the characters location and one of them has a much smaller range which in a way kinda helps balance them out imo. 

I dont expect anet to change the focus skill but if we were gonna talk about it i wanted to point out why it frustrates me personally and what i think would be the best solution and healthier overall for the game without changing it too much. 

Edited May 3, 2022 by ZDragon.3046