Guild Wars 3: Evidence?

[Ayrilana.1396]

If they’re going to do an overhaul to the game engine than they’re better off making a new game. This would help attract other MMO players assuming they don’t make the poor choice again to have casual gamers and non-gamers as their target audience.

[Jasonbdj.4021]

Just want to point out that ESO has FPS issues due to engine and they are using dx11.

Engines for MMORPG are indeed a lot more complex then your standard FPS games.

[Aeon.4583]

@"sigur.9453" said:

Well personally the reason would be exactly that, i already have everything here, so i would prefer to start from zero. but thats for everyone personally to decide.I was just criticizing the statment " it should be better possible to transfer all you charakters/items to the new game", which again, im personally not very fond of. Something like hall of monuments, sure, why not. but transfering everything? come on.

Sorry but i really must ask that question.

If you will reach the top of your current real-life career, will you drop it to start anew?Will you willingly go again to first class of the school to re-do that again after getting a college\university degree, without reverting your age?

Well, moving to a whole new game, abandoning all what current players have right now, kinda the same. One of success points of World of Warcraft, that people, still, haven't been robbed of their progress.

Gw1 webstore is not, and never was, that vast like current gw2 gemstore, thats why transition was easy.From all shared slots filled with gemstore items to 100% mount skins collection. Losing that, will make some parts of your body to be on fire.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Aeon.4583 said:

@"sigur.9453" said:

Well personally the reason would be exactly that, i already have everything here, so i would prefer to start from zero. but thats for everyone personally to decide.I was just criticizing the statment " it should be better possible to transfer all you charakters/items to the new game", which again, im personally not very fond of. Something like hall of monuments, sure, why not. but transfering everything? come on.

Sorry but i really must ask that question.

If you will reach the top of your current real-life career, will you drop it to start anew?Will you willingly go again to first class of the school to re-do that again after getting a college\university degree, without reverting your age?

Well, moving to a whole new game, abandoning all what current players have right now, kinda the same. One of success points of World of Warcraft, that people, still, haven't been robbed of their progress.

Gw1 webstore is not, and never was, that vast like current gw2 gemstore, thats why transition was easy.From all shared slots filled with gemstore items to 100% mount skins collection. Losing that, will make some parts of your body to be on fire.

WoW hasn’t made a sequel. Every other MMO that released a sequel has not carried over the characters from the previous game. This doesn’t apply to just MMO’s either and it is incredibly common. I’m kind of surprised that you made that argument.

It’s also technically not a loss as you’d likely still be able to play GW2 just as people can still play GW1.

[Warkind.6745]

Yeah, we might get GW3 if they can fit it into a black lion chest.

[Aeon.4583]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:WoW hasn’t made a sequel. Every other MMO that released a sequel has not carried over the characters from the previous game. This doesn’t apply to just MMO’s either and it is incredibly common. I’m kind of surprised that you made that argument.

It’s also technically not a loss as you’d likely still be able to play GW2 just as people can still play GW1.

Well thats the point, blizz don't want to nullify all the player's progress. Thats why they don't do that.And it was mentioed here aleardy, if Gw2 will have stand-alone successor, that will successfully take away company's attention. Gw2 support and player base will be Decimated.Gw1 servers are kept online only for Hall of Monument's calculation at this point. Player base there is very critical.

And honestly, Hall of Monuments rewards are not for everyone's taste.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Aeon.4583 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:WoW hasn’t made a sequel. Every other MMO that released a sequel has not carried over the characters from the previous game. This doesn’t apply to just MMO’s either and it is incredibly common. I’m kind of surprised that you made that argument.

It’s also technically not a loss as you’d likely still be able to play GW2 just as people can still play GW1.

Well thats the point, blizz don't want to nullify all the player's progress. Thats why they don't do that.And it was mentioed here aleardy, if Gw2 will have stand-alone successor, that will successfully take away company's attention. Gw2 support and player base will be Decimated.Gw1 servers are kept online only for Hall of Monument's calculation at this point. Player base there is very critical.

And honestly, Hall of Monuments rewards are not for everyone's taste.

I don’t believe that’s the reason they haven’t made a sequel.

Players moving on to the newer game is how things go. That’s the lifecycle of a series. Nothing lasts forever.

[Aeon.4583]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I don’t believe that’s the reason they haven’t made a sequel.

Ah! Then you don't know the Legendary story about famous WoW Prairie Dog :3There is a deep meaning behind it <3

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Aeon.4583 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I don’t believe that’s the reason they haven’t made a sequel.

Ah! Then you don't know the Legendary story about famous WoW Prairie Dog :3There is a deep meaning behind it <3

Updating that model has nothing to do with what’s being discussed.

Games have sequels. Players move on to those sequels. That’s the way it’s been for 30+ years.

[sigur.9453]

@Aeon.4583 said:

@"sigur.9453" said:

Well personally the reason would be exactly that, i already have everything here, so i would prefer to start from zero. but thats for everyone personally to decide.I was just criticizing the statment " it should be better possible to transfer all you charakters/items to the new game", which again, im personally not very fond of. Something like hall of monuments, sure, why not. but transfering everything? come on.

Sorry but i really must ask that question.

If you will reach the top of your current real-life career, will you drop it to start anew?Will you willingly go again to first class of the school to re-do that again after getting a college\university degree, without reverting your age?

Well, moving to a whole new game, abandoning all what current players have right now, kinda the same. One of success points of World of Warcraft, that people, still, haven't been robbed of their progress.

Gw1 webstore is not, and never was, that vast like current gw2 gemstore, thats why transition was easy.From all shared slots filled with gemstore items to 100% mount skins collection. Losing that, will make some parts of your body to be on fire.

Ooof, I don't compare a hobby (gw2) with a job, sry.I wouldn't care honestly, as I said, those skins are in fact, not gone but in another game.Well other than gw2, Wow has a steady progress. (=vertical progression) im sitting on the same "powerlevel" since pre Pof. Another reason why I would prefer to start from zero again. But again, I don't think Gw3 will ever happen, I just find your argument against it a bit strange

[raptorak.8250]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Aeon.4583 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:WoW hasn’t made a sequel. Every other MMO that released a sequel has not carried over the characters from the previous game. This doesn’t apply to just MMO’s either and it is incredibly common. I’m kind of surprised that you made that argument.

It’s also technically not a loss as you’d likely still be able to play GW2 just as people can still play GW1.

Well thats the point, blizz don't want to nullify all the player's progress. Thats why they don't do that.And it was mentioed here aleardy, if Gw2 will have stand-alone successor, that will successfully take away company's attention. Gw2 support and player base will be Decimated.Gw1 servers are kept online only for Hall of Monument's calculation at this point. Player base there is very critical.

And honestly, Hall of Monuments rewards are not for everyone's taste.

I don’t believe that’s the reason they haven’t made a sequel.

Players moving on to the newer game is how things go. That’s the lifecycle of a series. Nothing lasts forever.

Exactly this. GW3 would likely only come out once they reach the limitations of their current engine and/or content. Past that, it makes far more sense to keep building on to what they already have. The only other case I can think of would be if revenue from GW2 dropped significantly and they needed a way to push a new game, but it would have to be above and beyond GW2 to get people to buy in.

[crepuscular.9047]

as soon as Anet announces GW3, unless there's something like Hall of Monuments in place, most people will likely stop playing at regular basis

[Mesis.2951]

I would say we have at least 3 years of active GW2 development, than the shift to GW3 might happen.I dont think GW3 is that improbable, the current MMO market is quite hungry for a big new MMO and assuming we will have few big ones in the next 0-3 years GW3 release date set for 2027 would be quite likely.On the contrary, I think there will be a huge MMO resurrection in upcoming years starting with WoW classic possibly reaching 10+ mil players and overtaking Fortnite etc. on Twitch + the fact that new gen of gamers never played a strategy game or mmorpg in their life

As for the "evidence" one might see, GW2 updates seem quite slow compared to other MMOs, WoW for example pums an xpac every 1-2 years with a new race or class and the content value arguably higher than GW2 (until they kill it next patch)

[Astralporing.1957]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Aeon.4583 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I don’t believe that’s the reason they haven’t made a sequel.

Ah! Then you don't know the Legendary story about famous WoW Prairie Dog :3There is a deep meaning behind it <3

Updating that model has nothing to do with what’s being discussed.

Games have sequels. Players move on to those sequels. That’s the way it’s been for 30+ years.You're talking as if there was a significant number of succesful sequels on MMORPG market...

[Cyninja.2954]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Aeon.4583 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I don’t believe that’s the reason they haven’t made a sequel.

Ah! Then you don't know the Legendary story about famous WoW Prairie Dog :3There is a deep meaning behind it <3

Updating that model has nothing to do with what’s being discussed.

Games have sequels. Players move on to those sequels. That’s the way it’s been for 30+ years.

Please name some successful (or even attempted sequels) to MMORPGs which are still around.

While compiling that list you should already see why your comment makes no sense in relation to MMORPGS and this genre.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Aeon.4583 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I don’t believe that’s the reason they haven’t made a sequel.

Ah! Then you don't know the Legendary story about famous WoW Prairie Dog :3There is a deep meaning behind it <3

Updating that model has nothing to do with what’s being discussed.

Games have sequels. Players move on to those sequels. That’s the way it’s been for 30+ years.You're talking as if there was a significant number of succesful sequels on MMORPG market...

Successful or not isn’t relevant to what I was saying.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Aeon.4583 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I don’t believe that’s the reason they haven’t made a sequel.

Ah! Then you don't know the Legendary story about famous WoW Prairie Dog :3There is a deep meaning behind it <3

Updating that model has nothing to do with what’s being discussed.

Games have sequels. Players move on to those sequels. That’s the way it’s been for 30+ years.

Please name some successful (or even attempted sequels) to MMORPGs which are still around.

While compiling that list you should already see why your comment makes no sense in relation to MMORPGS and this genre.

Successful or not has no relevance to what I was saying. Read the previous posts to get the context in which I was writing.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Probably an expansion announcement towards the end of the Season 5 reveal, or a change in how living story will be done.

If you are leading to an expansion, 45 minutes of explaining the journey to get there makes sense.

If you are changing the format of how you will do living stories going into the future, 45 minutes still makes a lot of sense.

This game has a lot of POTENTIAL left in it.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Aeon.4583 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I don’t believe that’s the reason they haven’t made a sequel.

Ah! Then you don't know the Legendary story about famous WoW Prairie Dog :3There is a deep meaning behind it <3

Updating that model has nothing to do with what’s being discussed.

Games have sequels. Players move on to those sequels. That’s the way it’s been for 30+ years.You're talking as if there was a significant number of succesful sequels on MMORPG market...

Successful or not isn’t relevant to what I was saying.Of course it is relevant. If succesful sequels aren't very common in a specific genre, most developers

won't

risk making one. Remember, MMORPGs are not cheap, they require a massive upfront investment, and if they won't pay off, your company may end up going under.

Players in general aren't supposed to move on from MMORPG titles. It's quite different than for single player games, where sequels to a popular title are a low risk investment, and where players moving on to different titles is assumed.

So, to correct your statements:Single player games have sequels. Players move on to those sequels. That’s the way it’s been for 30+ years. At the same time, MMORPG games usually don't have sequels, and if they do, only rarely players move on to those sequels. That’s the way it’s been for 20+ years.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Aeon.4583 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I don’t believe that’s the reason they haven’t made a sequel.

Ah! Then you don't know the Legendary story about famous WoW Prairie Dog :3There is a deep meaning behind it <3

Updating that model has nothing to do with what’s being discussed.

Games have sequels. Players move on to those sequels. That’s the way it’s been for 30+ years.You're talking as if there was a significant number of succesful sequels on MMORPG market...

Successful or not isn’t relevant to what I was saying.Of course it is relevant. If succesful sequels aren't very common in a specific genre, most developers

won't

risk making one. Remember, MMORPGs are not cheap, they require a massive upfront investment, and if they won't pay off, your company may end up going under.

Players in general aren't supposed to move on from MMORPG titles. It's quite different than for single player games, where sequels to a popular title are a low risk investment, and where players moving on to different titles is assumed.

So, to correct your statements:

Single player

games have sequels. Players move on to those sequels. That’s the way it’s been for 30+ years. At the same time,

MMORPG

games usually don't have sequels, and if they do, only rarely players move on to those sequels. That’s the way it’s been for 20+ years.

Again, read what the person I had been responding to has written. Please don’t twist my post into a different direction.

They’re using the premise that there should not be sequels because it would decimate the player base of the existing games. I responded to them that it’s natural and expected that if a developer creates a sequel that this will happen. It happens with any game that has an online community whether it be Skyrim, Mario Maker, or Final Fantasy Online.

I was not posting about whether they should. I was not posting about whether a sequel would be successful or not.

Edit: The poster had also stated that the WoW devs were not making a sequel because they didn’t want to nullify players’ progress in the existing game. I disagreed with them about this being the reason. I didn’t give the reasons why but it does fall on what you had said as well as another poster who and quoted my post.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Successful or not isn’t relevant to what I was saying.Of course it is relevant. If succesful sequels aren't very common in a specific genre, most developers

won't

risk making one. Remember, MMORPGs are not cheap, they require a massive upfront investment, and if they won't pay off, your company may end up going under.

Players in general aren't supposed to move on from MMORPG titles. It's quite different than for single player games, where sequels to a popular title are a low risk investment, and where players moving on to different titles is assumed.

So, to correct your statements:

Single player

games have sequels. Players move on to those sequels. That’s the way it’s been for 30+ years. At the same time,

MMORPG

games usually don't have sequels, and if they do, only rarely players move on to those sequels. That’s the way it’s been for 20+ years.

Again, read what the person I had been responding to has written. Please don’t twist my post into a different direction.

They’re using the premise that there should not be sequels because it would decimate the player base of the existing games. I responded to them that it’s natural and expected that if a developer creates a sequel that this will happen. It happens with any game that has an online community whether it be Skyrim, Mario Maker, or Final Fantasy Online.So? In Single player games, that's not a problem. Quite the opposite - devs do

not

want you to play those games for too long, because the marketing model for them is single purchases (and sometimes DLCs). Once you have those, it is

beneficial

for the company if you move on and buy another game. Not so for MMOs, where the marketing model revolves around you staying and playing that game for a long, long time.With single player, you moving on as soon as you will get some fun out of the game (which in most cases isn't that long) is certain. As such, devs will want to give you something new to play, and sequels to well-received titles are a good choice there, as they already know it's something people liked, and can reuse at least some of the stuff they made for the previous title.

I was not posting about whether they should. I was not posting about whether a sequel would be successful or not.And i can tell you that MMORPG sequels have a much lower chance of being succesful than it is in case of single player games. Because, unlike with single-player, the target group for MMORPGs are players that tend to

not

move constantly to new games. If you previous game was succesful, they won't easily move. If they have invested a lot in it, they won't easily move. And if it wasn't succesful, and/or they haven't invested a lot in it, why would you think it would be any different with the sequel? As such, continuations are a good choice only if the new game will be significantly different (and so addressed to a different group of players), or the old game reached the end of the road and devs have no choice but to make a new one. And even then, those are much more risky business than single player game sequels.

Edit: The poster had also stated that the WoW devs were not making a sequel because they didn’t want to nullify players’ progress in the existing game.Well, yeah, i doubt they were concerned about that. More like they were concerned that players would not want to abandon their progress willingly, and trying to force them might generate a lot of bad PR. And that the new game might not bring enough income to cover for both the development and loss of income from WoW it would cause.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Successful or not isn’t relevant to what I was saying.Of course it is relevant. If succesful sequels aren't very common in a specific genre, most developers

won't

risk making one. Remember, MMORPGs are not cheap, they require a massive upfront investment, and if they won't pay off, your company may end up going under.

Players in general aren't supposed to move on from MMORPG titles. It's quite different than for single player games, where sequels to a popular title are a low risk investment, and where players moving on to different titles is assumed.

So, to correct your statements:

Single player

games have sequels. Players move on to those sequels. That’s the way it’s been for 30+ years. At the same time,

MMORPG

games usually don't have sequels, and if they do, only rarely players move on to those sequels. That’s the way it’s been for 20+ years.

Again, read what the person I had been responding to has written. Please don’t twist my post into a different direction.

They’re using the premise that there should not be sequels because it would decimate the player base of the existing games. I responded to them that it’s natural and expected that if a developer creates a sequel that this will happen. It happens with any game that has an online community whether it be Skyrim, Mario Maker, or Final Fantasy Online.So? In Single player games, that's not a problem. Quite the opposite - devs do

not

want you to play those games for too long, because the marketing model for them is single purchases (and sometimes DLCs). Once you have those, it is

beneficial

for the company if you move on and buy another game. Not so for MMOs, where the marketing model revolves around you staying and playing that game for a long, long time.With single player, you moving on as soon as you will get some fun out of the game (which in most cases isn't that long) is certain. As such, devs will want to give you something new to play, and sequels to well-received titles are a good choice there, as they already know it's something people liked, and can reuse at least some of the stuff they made for the previous title.

I was not posting about whether they should. I was not posting about whether a sequel would be successful or not.

And i can tell you that MMORPG sequels have a much lower chance of being succesful than it is in case of single player games. Because, unlike with single-player, the target group for MMORPGs are players that tend to

not

move constantly to new games. If you previous game was succesful, they won't easily move. If they have invested a lot in it, they won't easily move. And if it wasn't succesful, and/or they haven't invested a lot in it, why would you think it would be any different with the sequel? As such, continuations are a good choice only if the new game will be significantly different (and so addressed to a different group of players), or the old game reached the end of the road and devs have no choice but to make a new one. And even then, those are much more risky business than single player game sequels.

Edit: The poster had also stated that the WoW devs were not making a sequel because they didn’t want to nullify players’ progress in the existing game.Well, yeah, i doubt they were concerned about that. More like they were concerned that players would not want to abandon their progress willingly, and trying to force them might generate a lot of bad PR. And that the new game might not bring enough income to cover for both the development and loss of income from WoW it would cause.

I’ve politely asked you to re-read previous posts to get the context of what I was posting and even clarified it further for you. If you’re going to continue to ignore all of that and twist my argument into something I was not even talking about then I have nothing further to say to you.

[mrauls.6519]

I can already tell a ton of people are going to be disappointed on August 30

[Astralporing.1957]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I’ve politely asked you to re-read previous posts to get the context of what I was posting and even clarified it further for you. If you’re going to continue to ignore all of that and twist my argument into something I was not even talking about then I have nothing further to say to you.I have reread your posts. As you probably noticed, i did agree with your doubts about Blizzard's motivation for not making a sequel. What i didn't agree was those parts of your argument where you used things common for single player games (but NOT for MMORPGs), and tried to use that as an argument in a discussion about MMORPGs. Because those parts simply didn't hold water.

Basically, i agreed with your conclusion as far as that statement about wow was concerned. I disagreed with the basis on which you made that conclusion.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I’ve politely asked you to re-read previous posts to get the context of what I was posting and even clarified it further for you. If you’re going to continue to ignore all of that and twist my argument into something I was not even talking about then I have nothing further to say to you.I have reread your posts. As you probably noticed, i did agree with your doubts about Blizzard's motivation for not making a sequel. What i didn't agree was those parts of your argument where you used things common for single player games (but NOT for MMORPGs), and tried to use that as an argument in a discussion about MMORPGs. Because those parts simply didn't hold water.

Basically, i agreed with your conclusion as far as that statement about wow was concerned. I disagreed with the basis on which you made that conclusion.

MMO’s can have sequels (e.g. Everquest 1/2, Final Fantasy 11/14). Other games that are not MMO’s can have online communities and experience the same thing. The player base from the previous MMO can move on to the next iteration. The person I was quoted was specifically was against a net iteration because then the popular would move on to that one and they also stated this was the reason why WoW did not have one as an example. None of this had absolutely anything to do with whether a sequel would be successful. Not ever MMO has sequels but this was not about that fact.

Also refer to this post of mine:

Every other MMO that released a sequel has not carried over the characters from the previous game. This doesn’t apply to just MMO’s either and it is incredibly common.

Notice that I wasn’t saying that sequels were common in MMO? Following the posts I made, as well as the one I was responding to, you’ll see that what I was referring to as being common would be characters not being ported to the sequel and that sequels tend to pull players from the previous game.