Guild Wars 3: Evidence?

[Opopanax.1803]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:ANet devs have already said that they aren't going to invest in an entirely new engine, so long as there's good life left in this one. The reason they worked on GW2 in the first place was that there were limits to the GW1 engine that didn't allow them to implement the sorts of stories they wanted to tell. Until that's also true of this engine, there's no financial benefit to them to throw away the current investment and take a chance on a new game.

This engine is already hitting its ceiling. It does need an overhaul. Maybe not a complete one, but it certainly needs work.

I do think that with Windows 7 coming to an end of support, they will likely need to Chang some things with the engine in the near future.

[Trise.2865]

@Linken.6345 said:

@"Gamble.4580" said:There will be a third big expansion before they start gw3 and that’s if they do stay making mmos. And gw3 would be set in the far future so they can go all Tec would be awesome in pvp and the tec awakes some old gods and what not. And thfs can have gunblades!!! Wattttt!

final world of fantasy craft is that way ------->

You jest, but gun-blades do exist in this world. They're specifically a Charr weapon, rifles with "bayonets" (for lack of a better term) such that the weapons are functionally swords or battle-axes when shifting the grip. Like these:

[ugrakarma.9416]

unless they had for years maitened a hidden development of a entire new engine from scratch, the "gw3" would be a complete non-sense.im also for a revamp of gw2 engine and core stuff than a new game.

the bussness model of living world series seems promising, they probably are going to refine this model.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Opopanax.1803 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:ANet devs have already said that they aren't going to invest in an entirely new engine, so long as there's good life left in this one. The reason they worked on GW2 in the first place was that there were limits to the GW1 engine that didn't allow them to implement the sorts of stories they wanted to tell. Until that's also true of this engine, there's no financial benefit to them to throw away the current investment and take a chance on a new game.

This engine is already hitting its ceiling. It does need an overhaul. Maybe not a complete one, but it certainly needs work.On what basis are you making the claim that it

needs

work, let alone an overhaul. The devs say it's not even close to hitting its ceiling, that it doesn't need an overhaul.

I agree that it's showing its age, that some decisions made 7-10 years ago feel awkward or limiting today (although on close inspection, some of them have been of great benefit to us). I agree that a new engine would allow ANet to make different, perhaps better trade-offs.

But an overhaul, let alone a new engine, is incredibly expensive. It ties up a lot of resources for years, without the ability to share the fruits of their labor with fans. Remember: GW2 Nightfall released in Oct 2006 and GW2 wasn't out until August 2012, a six year gap with only a few stop-gap content additions.

I do think that with Windows 7 coming to an end of support, they will likely need to Chang some things with the engine in the near future.GW2 already works fine with Win10.

[Opopanax.1803]

The big things that I notice are particle effects, which is limited by the engine and has no easy change. Performance and group activity has been an issue since the beginning and has only gotten worse with HoT, PoF was a noticeable drop. The engine simply cannot keep up.

That is what I base my opinion off of.

Whether or not it needs a complete overhaul is debatable and unknowable by us. But if the devs say they want to reduce particle effect but can't easily because of the engine, at least some work on the engine is required.

[narcx.3570]

@Aeon.4583 said:Yes, yes. Like i said in other thread, imagine player with 5 or even more characters with full legendary gears playing right now( yes there are players who do that ).Then gw3 happens with character slot as a reward for playing gw2?That player quits. Doesn't want to buy gw3, simply because doesn't want to re-live all the effort of legendary farm.

Only way for gw3 to work is to transfer gw2 characters into it with all the hard working gears gw2 offer. Such transfer is not fun in terms of server's data base storage.And so, gw3 could put arena net in big risk of losing players, instead of adding more.

I would except there to be a continuation of the Hall of Monuments at least...

If there is to be a gw3, and they do bring back a revamped HoM... I think It would be cool if they let you like pick like 2-5 of your gw2 titles that you wanted to bring over with you or something like that. I originally would have said skins, but that's not realistic... But titles are just text, so it'd take them minimal effort to implement something along those lines.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Opopanax.1803 said:The big things that I notice are particle effects, which is limited by the engine and has no easy change. Performance and group activity has been an issue since the beginning and has only gotten worse with HoT, PoF was a noticeable drop. The engine simply cannot keep up.

That is what I base my opinion off of.I dunno; I find the game performs better now than ever. If only because I get more effects and so on, with the same FPS.

Whether or not it needs a complete overhaul is debatable and unknowable by us.

Or you can accept their word that they've debated it already and decided that it's many years before they are going to look into again.

But if the devs say they want to reduce particle effect but can't easily because of the engine, at least some work on the engine is required.Or they can punt that change, like they have so many others, and live with the consequences of the engine.

Again, I don't dispute that it's very noticeable that it's an old engine and the compromises made long ago are sometimes even more apparent. That just means there are limitations. It doesn't mean that an overhaul is necessary. Wanting a new engine is not the same as needing one.

[Opopanax.1803]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Opopanax.1803 said:The big things that I notice are particle effects, which is limited by the engine and has no easy change. Performance and group activity has been an issue since the beginning and has only gotten worse with HoT, PoF was a noticeable drop. The engine simply cannot keep up.

That is what I base my opinion off of.I dunno; I find the game performs better now than ever. If only because I get more effects and so on, with the same FPS.

Whether or not it needs a complete overhaul is debatable and unknowable by us.

Or you can accept their word that they've debated it already and decided that it's many years before they are going to look into again.

But if the devs say they want to reduce particle effect but can't easily because of the engine, at least some work on the engine is required.Or they can punt that change, like they have so many others, and live with the consequences of the engine.

Again, I don't dispute that it's very noticeable that it's an old engine and the compromises made long ago are sometimes even more apparent. That just means there are limitations. It doesn't mean that an overhaul is necessary. Wanting a new engine is not the same as needing one.

Well of course they can live with anything and punt any change at this point: The game is running, it is functional to a point.

It is not functional for large scale group fights/events with culling, lag, and particle effect, but it can be played.

At this point it is a matter of choice on what will be anets priority. I think redoing at least some of the engine makes a lot of sense. Maybe not or maybe so for anet, we will see what the future holds.

[Harper.4173]

There won't be a GW3 - that's my opinion.Why? Because of a combination of factors:

-MMOs take time to make - not only do they take a lot of time to develop but they require a lot of time to get content done. It's not just the engine and the assets - but the skins and the stories and all the other forms of "content" people devour. Given that situation you're always going to be on the back foot when competing with older MMOs that already have a lot of content already present. So does this mean new MMOs are impossible to launch? No - but it means a developer will go for a new MMO only when they're absolutely forced to because of other reason as well - as Anet was when the engine limitations of GW1 outweighed the benefits of keeping GW1 going.When it became a better move to make GW2 from a mechanics/engine standpoint they did it.

-MMOs are no longer the big thing - while MMOs continue to dominate a segment of the market they no longer are the be all and end all of online gaming like they were a decade or more ago. Other genres have moved in and it doesn't seem like it's such a "good looking" deal to launch a new MMO these days.GW2 started development in 2007. In 2007 MMOs reigned supreme as the online world's top games. It made sense to invest resources into a new MMO - especially since your old MMO was too old to support a lot of the ideas/mechanics you wanted to make happen.

So take those two points and fast-froward to today.You have a good MMO with a stable population, the engine and looks are serviceable and can even be improved every now and then. You have a lot of content for someone getting into your game now. You have your gem store and a steady-ish stream of revenue. You can either continue making content for this game and slowly build on what you have or shift most of your resources into developing another one.

So what do you gain and what do you lose? Well - you lose content creation for this game which will make people unhappy and will start bleeding population - in turn lowering your gem store income.You also lose all of the infrastructure (engine, areas, content, etc) that you've already made - this means that when you start your new game you'll have to remake content and lots of it.

What do you gain? Well the chance to start new and make it big by getting on the hype train, getting people into your MMO and hitting it big. Except MMOs aren't big news anymore and the hype train doesn't do MMOs anymore.MMOs are complex games that also require a lot of time investment. Look at recent popular games - low entry barrier (financial) and low entry barrier ( intellectual). Today's generation would rather pew pew each other in some BR game than learn "complex" game mechanics. If you don't believe me just look at every MMO since the early 2000s slowly dumbing down its mechanics and complexity to suit the ever less intelligent and patient mass of consumers that want instant wins and epic moments.

There most likely won't be a GW3 because as I see it right now, it doesn't make any economic sense.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Gamble.4580 said:And gw3 would be set in the far future so they can go all Tec would be awesome in pvp and the tec awakes some old gods and what not. And thfs can have gunblades!!! Wattttt!

Yikes, what a horrible image you painted there. My favored option for a GW3 would be to see it placed in the age when the Gods came to Tyria. There is enough annoying high-tech nonsense out there. If I want sci-fi content, I go elsewhere - I will never associate it with the Guild Wars brand.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Ashantara.8731 said:If I want sci-fi content, I go elsewhere - I will never associate it with the Guild Wars brand.Too bad the first memory of GW2 I have is Apache helicopters assaulting the Shatterer and commandos flashbanging grawl then.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:If I want sci-fi content, I go elsewhere - I will never associate it with the Guild Wars brand.Too bad the first memory of GW2 I have is Apache helicopters assaulting the Shatterer and commandos flashbanging grawl then.

In addition, Commandos (marked as ???) appear in Gw2’s Jahai Bluffs

??? are commandos that randomly appear in Jahai Bluffs. They've wandered through rifts connected to the Mists and are now lost.

(Links are broken, copy paste to go to site)https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unknown_(NPC)

[Sylvari.2953]

Why would they start from scratch when GW2 still has a lot of potential? Resurrect dungeons, rework guild missions, add new/better stuff to earn, release Cantha, and so on... Doing all these things would cost a lot less than starting a brand new MMO.

[Astralporing.1957]

@sigur.9453 said:As I said, it's a new game. You items will still be there on gw2 (!!!) until server are going down.So, why would you want to move to another place?Hint: most of the players that would want that have moved on to other games already. Most of the people that remain are those that do not want to abandon the material and emotional investment they've made.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@sigur.9453 said:As I said, it's a new game. You items will still be there on gw2 (!!!) until server are going down.So, why would you want to move to another place?Hint: most of the players that would want that have moved on to other games already. Most of the people that remain are those that do not want to abandon the material and emotional investment they've made.

This.

Why do people keep forgetting that similar games compete with each other. Yes, similar can even mean within the own world/franchise/IP. Even GW1 competes with GW2 for players even though it's not a full MMO (the amount of players playing GW1 might be small, but there is some who enjoy the game and refuse tos witch to GW2).

Bringing out GW3 while discontinuing GW2 means a lot of players are given a choice: move on or stick with a game which sees no more developement (similar to GW1). While at the same time competing with itsself within the franchise (to a way bigger extent than GW2 and GW1). Not a great prospect for active GW2 players who enjoy the game (and why would it be?).

GW3 is interesting to people who have lost interest in GW2. I'd agree with Astralporing that most of these players have already moved on or are about to.

[Sugar Min.5834]

○ LW is... Getting old and boring and predictable. And most of the time, unnecessarily frustrating.

♡ Expansion is... Yay!! New Class, New Gameplay Mechanism, Plenty of Cool Stuff!

☆ GW3 is........... S H I N Y !!!

[Klypto.1703]

Only reason for a change in the game as far as sequel is some huge leap into tech needing a new game engine or something similar for a game. There really isn't going to be anything like that in the industry itself unless we see some kind of mind blowing change over what gamers have seen over the last two decades. In which the basis of the games where mmorpgs ascended from still lots of things that have not been converted from text to graphics yet. Although I was pretty into the multi class avatar system where you pretty much didn't need tons of alts for anything you just mainly had the classes you played and the classes you needed but didn't like to play incorporated into your final form. So if you were a warrior you took in things from other classes as you multi classed but in your final form of leveling up you were a warrior again just a much stronger one than when you started. Besides story though that is probably a similar direction gaming will go as far as sequels of said games.

[Mikali.9651]

I would like for GW3 to happen...but only if it is closer to what I imagine it should be :) If it's any easier and more solo oriented than GW2 I would not play it and spend any money on it. I do not want participation rewards.

But, they way casuals want it, and the way GW2 evolved, I am not sure GW3 would be any good of a game for anyone that wants some challenge, you know when you played Super Mario and failed that jump 3 times in a row? You would keep trying and you would feel great once you managed to do it right. Well, that feeling does not exist in GW2, at all. And I dislike it so much, I don't feel engaged in any way while playing this game.

Anyway, I doubt they are making GW3. There are a few things that could be the reasons for Anet to do it, mainly because of technology, and to start over designing a better combat system because I feel they made mistakes with their gear stat system, class roles system, trait system, and passive defense system (or better, autoactivation system), and it too strongly influences balance, pvp, group play, difficulty scaling.

[sigur.9453]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"sigur.9453" said:As I said, it's a new game. You items will still be there on gw2 (!!!) until server are going down.So, why would you want to move to another place?Hint: most of the players that would want that have moved on to other games already. Most of the people that remain are those that do not want to abandon the material and emotional investment they've made.

Well personally the reason would be exactly that, i already have everything here, so i would prefer to start from zero. but thats for everyone personally to decide.I was just criticizing the statment " it should be better possible to transfer all you charakters/items to the new game", which again, im personally not very fond of. Something like hall of monuments, sure, why not. but transfering everything? come on.

[sigur.9453]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"sigur.9453" said:As I said, it's a new game. You items will still be there on gw2 (!!!) until server are going down.So, why would you want to move to another place?Hint: most of the players that would want that have moved on to other games already. Most of the people that remain are those that do not want to abandon the material and emotional investment they've made.

This.

Why do people keep forgetting that similar games compete with each other. Yes, similar can even mean within the own world/franchise/IP. Even GW1 competes with GW2 for players even though it's not a full MMO (the amount of players playing GW1 might be small, but there is some who enjoy the game and refuse tos witch to GW2).

Bringing out GW3 while discontinuing GW2 means a lot of players are given a choice: move on or stick with a game which sees no more developement (similar to GW1). While at the same time competing with itsself within the franchise (to a way bigger extent than GW2 and GW1). Not a great prospect for active GW2 players who enjoy the game (and why would it be?).

GW3 is interesting to people who have lost interest in GW2. I'd agree with Astralporing that most of these players have already moved on or are about to.

As i said in my initial statment:"But yeah, the chances for Gw3 are close to zero if we asume it will be an gw2-like mmo. It's rather unwise to fish in your own pond when the whole sea is close by. (mobile game, single player, coop game like gw1,....) I mean if you would have a fan base like apple it would work, but we are far from that."

Agree on the rest of your post.Although you forgot to mention that a new MMO COULD also make a big buzz in current MMO comunity. IF there is an gw3 (i do not believe in it) it would possible attract new player to the franchise, an from a buisness perspective a NEW customer is worth more than an already existing one (exl. whales to some degree)

who knows? currently possible not even anet.

[Shep.4026]

Good sir, excuse my bluntness, but there is a huge difference between evidence and conjecture.

[Silmar Alech.4305]

There will be no GW3 - not with Arenanet. The big thing today is mobile games, at least what is being heard from Ncsoft, the owner of Arenanet. The canceled projects Arenanet was working on were probably of such mobile games, and apparently they didn't work out. What's remaining of Arenanet after the layoffs is a skeleton crew that is just able to sustain the operation of the current GW2. Development of a whole new game cannot be expected from them. There don't seem to be designers and people with future visions left, only the engineer type that is good in keeping existing things in good working order.

If there were someone designing a new MMO on the market today, it would probably be from a bigger development studio with larger funding. Or a new studio founded for just this. But I doubt this is the case - currently, big RPG MMO's are not mainstream. You would not be able to attract a larger audience, currently. The young crowd is flooding all the PvP/MOBA-games (whose current hype started with LoL, I think). It will take some years till this hype will pass, only then perhaps MMOs will return anew. When more of the older MMOs currently in existence have vanished.

MMOs may return if the technical and engine development will enable developers to put much less time into designing worlds and systems within such a game. A newly created MMOs would be too big to be able to satisfy today's demands for time-to-market. A new MMO has to be bigger and more sophisticated than GW2, but with less development effort.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:If I want sci-fi content, I go elsewhere - I will never associate it with the Guild Wars brand.Too bad the first memory of GW2 I have is Apache helicopters assaulting the Shatterer and commandos flashbanging grawl then.

I have been one of the most vocal critics of GW2's inconsistent design choices and the elements (like too much magi-tech or Inquest sci-fi outfits and weapons) that IMO don't fit into the setting. I was talking about GW1, which has shaped the brand for me and for many other oldtimers who have played Guild Wars since 2005.

[Thundabolt.8541]

I love how 3 is always the number that causes the most controversy and theorizing, speculations, etc. Half life 3, sonic adventure 3, kingdom hearts 3, guild wars 3.

But one thing's for sure; all of the games' prequals of the above came out at a time where videogames in general were much, much different. It's sad, but true, that the whole "look at my upgraded graphics super high-end PC" shebang is nowhere near as popular as "I am a 12 year old child I wanna play bubble dragons"

Everything is changing. Even the new pokemon games are looking abysmal.

If we got Guild Wars 3, it would need to be one of two things: a mind-blowing immersive experience that promises to allow account-linking between GW2 and GW3, like GW1 did with GW2, with new classes, a completely new way to play (first person-view mode), more races, better PvP/WvW, build templates not being a meme... AND it's coming to consoles as well as PC.

Or, it would be a mobile phone game that you tap the screen with your finger to do literally everything, including accidentally tapping ads at the top of the screen, being forced to sit behind more timegates than you can shake a skyscale at...

But I don't want Guild Wars 3. I want Guild Wars 2 to get the same treatment that WoW is promising to give to players. They're upgrading models, optimising the game better... etc.

[Thornwolf.9721]

A Overhaul of Gw 2 to give us Guild wars 2.5 is all we need. Refocus the game, the code and the ideas behind the game and get everything on the same track with an actual tutorial mode for new players. Do away with elite specs and find a way to bake them into the base class and continue to add onto them and make unique additions and then start adding NEW CLASSES. (Because lets face it elite specs don't bring people, new stuff brings people.) Ritualist, Dervish (Channels dragon power now, not god power.) A skin-walker, Occultist, Warlock, ect.

then add some new races such as Awoken, Tengu, Kodan, Largos and maybe a ton more customization for the current races. ( Always werebeast norn if they want that are fully customization, Mordrem sylvari, Olmakhan charr, heck maybe inquest who reformed for the asura we already got this type of thing for the humans with the elonian update.)