WVW-is this the endgame mode

DemonSeed.3528 · August 16, 2019

There's actually an interesting post on reddit atm about the total cost of gemstore items. I'm not sure if everything was accounted for yet though.

DeadlySynz.3471 · August 16, 2019

WvW was the endgame focus when Gw2 first came out.

Truth be told, they probably would have made a lot more money if they focused on PvP and WvW and mostly ignored PvE. All PvE really needed was some additional dungeons, and some tinkering to increase their difficulty. Perhaps a few world bosses that actually acted like bosses and not pinatas. Raids were never even needed as all they really did was start snowball effect that sent class balance out of whack. Keep all the new maps for expansion release content, and stop releasing new stories/maps every few months. All that happens with these maps is they go baron in less than a month with really only a meta-train passing through just after reset.

They waste an erroneous amount of time on content that has no real replay value. By replay value I mean something that actually keeps a player playing that map for the long-term, rather than visiting for dailies or a boss event (or a meta-train).

Honestly, I cannot see many people routinely dropping money for gems. Considering that it is so easy to make gold, most of the gems anyone would ever need would be coming from gold conversion.

Gop.8713 · August 16, 2019

I could buy the theory that the average wvw-only player spends more on the game than the average pve-only player, but there are so many more pve players I don't think it matters . . .

Dawdler.8521 · August 16, 2019

@Gop.8713 said:I could buy the theory that the average wvw-only player spends more on the game than the average pve-only player, but there are so many more pve players I don't think it matters . . .What do you mean, the average WvW only player spends more time doing PvE than the average PvE only player.

sephiroth.4217 · August 16, 2019

@Dinas Dragonbane.2978 said:
@"sephiroth.4217" said:
Personally I know 2 people that have put nearly 10 grand into the game. They only WvW and PvP.

What could anyone possibly spend 10 grand on? Is there even 10 grand worth of items on the gem store? 10 grand? What? What could they have POSSIBLY spent that money on? TEN THOUSAND? This is dollars right? I'm sorry but this seems even harder to believe than wvw players paying more than pve.

Well just for myself and not including the 2 I mentioned, ive spent close to nearly 8k over the 6 years fueling skins and siege habits. During my peak I was putting in 50-100 a week.

If I felt like Nightfury... out came the credit card.If I feel like a new Leggy... out comes the credit card.If I felt like binge commanding for a few weeks and needed hundreds upon hundreds of each guild blueprint... out came the credit card.

The point being that WvW players are more inclined to use the card before farming and we spend just as much as a PvE player if not more. So it doesnt help if some child says "you can thank us pve players for fueling your game mode".. but comments like that and "jUsT aDaPT" are memes created by the same user thankfully.

Gop.8713 · August 16, 2019

@Dawdler.8521 said:
@Gop.8713 said:I could buy the theory that the average wvw-only player spends more on the game than the average pve-only player, but there are so many more pve players I don't think it matters . . .What do you mean, the average WvW only player spends more time doing PvE than the average PvE only player.

lulz spends more money lol . . .

lare.5129 · August 16, 2019

I play wvw, and don't see any problems. I don't need new maps in wvw, not need new sieges. Everything is ok.May be I not understand, what you need? This is endgame content as is, and you can play it 50 years without any update.

Bandwagon.4512 · August 16, 2019

I will address two things here-First, i am not saying WVW is Better than PVE or vice versa, what i am mentioning is the way people play this game, while someone posted and mentioned that world boss and meta trains are end game content for them, i disagree completely, i know a lot of people regularly farm the meta maps and do world bosses, but a healthy 80% of that group is doing because they have a goal for farming, like get amalgamated gemstone for their legendary or acquire 250 of X items for their collection, i do also acknowledge the fact that people do these maps to farm gold, but again, this is goal oriented. I wouldn't say the same about WVW, why? Because when you login to wvw maps you know its only to kick the enemy arse and do the daily along the way, you do not get any profit playing wvw, yet everyone knows the amount of time an average wvw player puts in is easily more than any pve player spends on his farm(this includes the 2hrs+ spent at dragonstand).Secondly, i know a lot of people spent a lot of gold and money in wvw, easily equal to or more than pve. how you say? well thats because the guild/players transfer around a lot in both NA and EU world and every transfer costs easily whatever low level skin you can pick off the gem store, multiply that by 20-40 of a guild then you get a winner. Anet has made a lot of money on world transfers, this is and has always been a wvw cash cow for Anet.

To conclude, i would say that endgame content is needed to keep people hooked, you can get new players by fancy CGI movies and have them play living story whole day,but when the dust settles down, you need them to play competitive modes, which is where a lot of other games excel. GW2 has a unique usp called wvw, they ignored it forever with hand me downs from PVE and did nothing, wvw is dead/dying today, depending on NA/EU, but it could have been much more than this!

XenesisII.1540 · August 16, 2019

There's three end game areas, pve, wvw, spvp. Each can progress your characters separately from each other.

We can argue who makes more money all we want, there are things that could push pve players to purchase gems (which btw they can accumulate gold for gems a lot faster than wvw or spvp), there are things that could push wvw players to purchase gems like transfers (which pve players don't need to worry about at all) or lack of materials or gold to purchase stuff. We can say wvwers don't buy expansions, and yet like 90% of the wvw players are using pof or hot classes because they have to for the meta, and like 99% are running around on mounts because now they have to in order to keep up. Most skins can be used by everyone and almost every where (except mounts) and plenty of them show up in wvw, you can a zerg flying down from somewhere with like 20 different gliders.

Bottom line is we don't know how much whomever spends, there's obviously more people playing pve so you can say more pve players purchase more stuff, but really only anet knows about this. But the house wasn't built on just pve players, certainly not when in the early half of the game wvwers were forced into pve to progress in guildhall upgrades ascended gear weapons food oils gold etc. It was built with pve wvw spvp in mind, but over time anet decided to just cater to pve, the biggest side more likely to consume their gem store offerings.

Typically pvp parts of a game don't need as much content but need balance more which pve doesn't need as much, which leads to the next part of pve has actually put a lot of pressure on anet to produce since day one, where most of their development had to be pushed towards pve, when they were doing living story every 2 weeks and festivals, eventually had to cut that down when their teams couldn't keep pace, even had to resort to expansions with raids model instead, something they didn't think they needed to do before, and now back to living stories every 3-4 months.

Finally, the real end game is cosmetics, the three modes don't matter, it's just something to keep you in game to buy something.

lare.5129 · August 16, 2019

so still not understand about wvw. About what "wvw content" you talk?
we need some magic collection ? ofc no. So the question about what?

Jugglemonkey.8741 · August 16, 2019

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:WvW was the endgame focus when Gw2 first came out.
Truth be told, they probably would have made a lot more money if they focused on PvP and WvW and mostly ignored PvE. All PvE really needed was some additional dungeons, and some tinkering to increase their difficulty. Perhaps a few world bosses that actually acted like bosses and not pinatas. Raids were never even needed as all they really did was start snowball effect that sent class balance out of whack. Keep all the new maps for expansion release content, and stop releasing new stories/maps every few months. All that happens with these maps is they go baron in less than a month with really only a meta-train passing through just after reset.
They waste an erroneous amount of time on content that has no real replay value. By replay value I mean something that actually keeps a player playing that map for the long-term, rather than visiting for dailies or a boss event (or a meta-train).
Honestly, I cannot see many people routinely dropping money for gems. Considering that it is so easy to make gold, most of the gems anyone would ever need would be coming from gold conversion.

Long time WvW player here. I tend to buy gems and convert to gold each month exactly because of the lack of replay value of a lot of the PvE content. I'll play and enjoy the living story stuff once as it is usually pretty good, but I average 60h a week at work, sometimes working up to 100h a week, so I don't have the time or the desire to replay the same content for gold constantly. Spending a few hours wages on gems let's me do whatever I want with the time to play that I have, which is well worth it to me.

Not really disagreeing with you tbh, just putting across a different view on the same things really :)

Obtena.7952 · August 16, 2019

@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@"Bandwagon.4512" said:Anet, you put all your energy for temporary game modes and wasted your efforts with marketing something people forget in a week or two, IF only you had spent half the energy and resources on end game modes, this game would have been something else.

Woah. Back up a little ... WASTED their time? That perspective is way off base. That doesn't really make sense with the state of the game. I'm willing to be that if they didn't 'waste' their efforts in something else, this game wouldn't have lasted as long as it has.

The ONLY reason this game exists is because lots of people like it's PVE ... so instead of thinking the 'temporary' game mode that most people play is some kind of waste, you should probably be thanking those people for supporting the game enough so you could have whatever fun you managed in WvW.

WVW players put the same if not more money in to the game as a PvE player.PVE players farm thousands of golds, WvW buys hundreds of golds.

Its only natural that a WvW player whips out the credit card before the guy with thousands of gold does.

So YOU should be thanking us for YOUR living stories and huge amounts of pve content.

Really? What makes you think so?

Let me hit you

hard

with some reality. Do you know why WvW doesn't get massive upgrades? I can assure you it's not because all the WvW players are carrying the game with all the gem sales they make for PVE players and their PVE content.

So care to try again?

Why would I try simple logic again? Personally I know 2 people that have put nearly 10 grand into the game. They only WvW and PvP.

You're going to sit there and say your garbage, thats fine. We'll add it to the list of memes you created like "jUsT aDaPt" and "WaRcLaW iS goOd fOr WvW."

"OnLy pVe PlAYeRs SpeNd MoneY oN gaMe yOu sHouLd ThanK uS foR yoUr sIde gaMe"

You should try simply logic again because you're examples are not proof of what you claim to be true. If you look beyond your completely irrelevant sample of 2 cherrypicked individuals, the reality suggests that if the more significant revenues were coming from WvW ... then WvW would be getting the upgrades, not PVE. That's not the case.

Obtena.7952 · August 16, 2019

@Iozeph.5617 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Dinas Dragonbane.2978 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:WVW players put the same if not more money in to the game as a PvE player.PVE players farm thousands of golds, WvW buys hundreds of golds.So YOU should be thanking us for YOUR living stories and huge amounts of pve content.I can't seem to agree with this? What the hell does a WvW player need gold for? Used to be paying for siege and upgrades but....that's years ago. Please don't say transferring.

It's easy to not agree with it ... because it's nonsense. There is no way in hell all the WvW players are supporting the game with gem sales to such an extent for the lions share of dev time and effort to be put towards PVE content. The ocean doesn't have this much salt.

And what about the people with feet in both ponds so to speak?>

What about them? It doesn't change the fact that there isn't more revenue coming from WvW players keeping this game going for the benefit of PVE players like the poster wants us to think. That makes NO sense. The revenues are going to split approximately along the percentages of players in the game modes. If a player splits their time over more than one, so to does the revenue they contribute to the game. Anet knows where the money is coming from ... they are going to ensure those players are the most catered to. If the money was coming from WvW ... WvW would be getting updates ALL time.

sephiroth.4217 · August 16, 2019

@Obtena.7952 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@"Bandwagon.4512" said:Anet, you put all your energy for temporary game modes and wasted your efforts with marketing something people forget in a week or two, IF only you had spent half the energy and resources on end game modes, this game would have been something else.

Woah. Back up a little ... WASTED their time? That perspective is way off base. That doesn't really make sense with the state of the game. I'm willing to be that if they didn't 'waste' their efforts in something else, this game wouldn't have lasted as long as it has.

The ONLY reason this game exists is because lots of people like it's PVE ... so instead of thinking the 'temporary' game mode that most people play is some kind of waste, you should probably be thanking those people for supporting the game enough so you could have whatever fun you managed in WvW.

WVW players put the same if not more money in to the game as a PvE player.PVE players farm thousands of golds, WvW buys hundreds of golds.

Its only natural that a WvW player whips out the credit card before the guy with thousands of gold does.

So YOU should be thanking us for YOUR living stories and huge amounts of pve content.

Really? What makes you think so?

Let me hit you

hard

with some reality. Do you know why WvW doesn't get massive upgrades? I can assure you it's not because all the WvW players are carrying the game with all the gem sales they make for PVE players and their PVE content.

So care to try again?

Why would I try simple logic again? Personally I know 2 people that have put nearly 10 grand into the game. They only WvW and PvP.

You're going to sit there and say your garbage, thats fine. We'll add it to the list of memes you created like "jUsT aDaPt" and "WaRcLaW iS goOd fOr WvW."

"OnLy pVe PlAYeRs SpeNd MoneY oN gaMe yOu sHouLd ThanK uS foR yoUr sIde gaMe"

You should try simply logic again because you're examples are not proof of what you claim to be true. If you look beyond your completely irrelevant sample of 2 cherrypicked individuals, the reality suggests that if the more significant revenues were coming from WvW ... then WvW would be getting the upgrades, not PVE. That's not the case.

Why would I spend money on a game that has recently shown to share your mentality?

Obtena.7952 · August 16, 2019

@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@"Bandwagon.4512" said:Anet, you put all your energy for temporary game modes and wasted your efforts with marketing something people forget in a week or two, IF only you had spent half the energy and resources on end game modes, this game would have been something else.

Woah. Back up a little ... WASTED their time? That perspective is way off base. That doesn't really make sense with the state of the game. I'm willing to be that if they didn't 'waste' their efforts in something else, this game wouldn't have lasted as long as it has.

The ONLY reason this game exists is because lots of people like it's PVE ... so instead of thinking the 'temporary' game mode that most people play is some kind of waste, you should probably be thanking those people for supporting the game enough so you could have whatever fun you managed in WvW.

WVW players put the same if not more money in to the game as a PvE player.PVE players farm thousands of golds, WvW buys hundreds of golds.

Its only natural that a WvW player whips out the credit card before the guy with thousands of gold does.

So YOU should be thanking us for YOUR living stories and huge amounts of pve content.

Really? What makes you think so?

Let me hit you

hard

with some reality. Do you know why WvW doesn't get massive upgrades? I can assure you it's not because all the WvW players are carrying the game with all the gem sales they make for PVE players and their PVE content.

So care to try again?

Why would I try simple logic again? Personally I know 2 people that have put nearly 10 grand into the game. They only WvW and PvP.

You're going to sit there and say your garbage, thats fine. We'll add it to the list of memes you created like "jUsT aDaPt" and "WaRcLaW iS goOd fOr WvW."

"OnLy pVe PlAYeRs SpeNd MoneY oN gaMe yOu sHouLd ThanK uS foR yoUr sIde gaMe"

You should try simply logic again because you're examples are not proof of what you claim to be true. If you look beyond your completely irrelevant sample of 2 cherrypicked individuals, the reality suggests that if the more significant revenues were coming from WvW ... then WvW would be getting the upgrades, not PVE. That's not the case.

Why would I spend money on a game that has recently shown to share your mentality?

I don't know ... what does that have to do with the discussion? I mean, MY mentality is not driving how this game is developed, but thanks for the compliment. The game hasn't changed how it's being developed for the last 7 years ... so only now you are finding out you shouldn't spend your money on it and you're bitter about it.

First you are telling me you and all your buddies are the ones paying for everyone to enjoy this game, now your telling me why you wouldn't spend money on the game? Is contradicting yourself what you do to sound like you know what you are talking about? I don't think it's working for you.

sephiroth.4217 · August 16, 2019

@Obtena.7952 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@"Bandwagon.4512" said:Anet, you put all your energy for temporary game modes and wasted your efforts with marketing something people forget in a week or two, IF only you had spent half the energy and resources on end game modes, this game would have been something else.

Woah. Back up a little ... WASTED their time? That perspective is way off base. That doesn't really make sense with the state of the game. I'm willing to be that if they didn't 'waste' their efforts in something else, this game wouldn't have lasted as long as it has.

The ONLY reason this game exists is because lots of people like it's PVE ... so instead of thinking the 'temporary' game mode that most people play is some kind of waste, you should probably be thanking those people for supporting the game enough so you could have whatever fun you managed in WvW.

WVW players put the same if not more money in to the game as a PvE player.PVE players farm thousands of golds, WvW buys hundreds of golds.

Its only natural that a WvW player whips out the credit card before the guy with thousands of gold does.

So YOU should be thanking us for YOUR living stories and huge amounts of pve content.

Really? What makes you think so?

Let me hit you

hard

with some reality. Do you know why WvW doesn't get massive upgrades? I can assure you it's not because all the WvW players are carrying the game with all the gem sales they make for PVE players and their PVE content.

So care to try again?

Why would I try simple logic again? Personally I know 2 people that have put nearly 10 grand into the game. They only WvW and PvP.

You're going to sit there and say your garbage, thats fine. We'll add it to the list of memes you created like "jUsT aDaPt" and "WaRcLaW iS goOd fOr WvW."

"OnLy pVe PlAYeRs SpeNd MoneY oN gaMe yOu sHouLd ThanK uS foR yoUr sIde gaMe"

You should try simply logic again because you're examples are not proof of what you claim to be true. If you look beyond your completely irrelevant sample of 2 cherrypicked individuals, the reality suggests that if the more significant revenues were coming from WvW ... then WvW would be getting the upgrades, not PVE. That's not the case.

Why would I spend money on a game that has recently shown to share your mentality?

I don't know ... what does that have to do with the discussion?

First you are telling me you and all your buddies are the ones paying for everyone to enjoy this game, now your telling me why you wouldn't spend money on the game? Is contradicting yourself what you do to sound like you know what you are talking about? I don't think it's working for you.

What I said was a rhetorical question for starters and what I gave was examples of 2 people that I know myself.

Gaming can be a hobby too and as someone else mentioned earlier its much easier for those of us that work to sacrifice 2 hours of pay rather than a week of grinding. So I know the examples I gave are not the only 3 circumstances.

Obtena.7952 · August 16, 2019

@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@"Bandwagon.4512" said:Anet, you put all your energy for temporary game modes and wasted your efforts with marketing something people forget in a week or two, IF only you had spent half the energy and resources on end game modes, this game would have been something else.