Is there some reason?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@saerni.2584 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I remember killing an afk holo in ffa arena and at 5% health he had 18 might stacks... just from passive elixir stuff from the HGH trait, probs had things like regen swiftness and prot, but I was more annoyed at someone getting g 18 stacks for basically dying afk.

Lol, and Holo is heavily based around quickness access meaning you can expect someone who isn’t afk to hit you super hard and super fast.

I mean don't get me wrong, this could of been a core engie or scrapper but neither of them 2 are anywhere close to the carnage holo does.Holo has forge with tons of damage. Holo traitline itself has everything : Sustain, condi conversion in boons, stability,damage boost, means to prevent the only possible drawback - overheat.Excuse me, if something stupid is on core level, it should be left alone because "core isnt that broken" ?

I never said that at all, I just didn't want to blame, or point fingers at alchemy... HGH for a lot of holos over performing factor.

It's just Holosmith. Everything in the Holo trait line and the Forge kit is completely full of shit.

[MrForz.1953]

@"Tycura.1982" said:Somthing somthing holo isn't OP it's just the best performing spec atm. It's not unbeatable because it has counterplay and unfavorable matchups. Plus it's not condi and that makes it inherently more fun to fight.

"Hey we have weaknesses too, learn to exploit them."Heard that one way too often and not only on the Holosmith department pre-nerf.

[Enduronex.4865]

@Yannir.4132 said:IMO they should shave off some of the utility value of Photon Forge.Holographic Shockwave is a prime example of a skill that should respect the Z-axis but somehow this skill is the best skill in the game when it comes to climbing stairs or other elevations. You should be able to jump over this thing, or reflect it back at the holosmith(it's made of light, light can be reflected).There's also no reason why this skill should have a 100% crit chance.Corona Burst does too much damage, the base damage should be cut by atleast 20%. Same goes for Holo Leap.

Issues that are outside of Forge, Heat Therapy needs to be deleted. Holo gains easy re-sustain from comboing into Healing Turret and from Compounding Chemicals anyway, it doesn't need any added sustain. Work out something else to replace it. Like Exceed-skills reducing Heat or something.

I wouldn't touch any of the core engineer stuff you mention here like Elixirs, Healing Turret or Alchemy. Problems are in the Holo gimmicks, otherwise Core engis would be overtuned as well, and I'm pretty sure they aren't.

It's not a projectile. It's the same for Photon Wall/Launch Wall and Blunderbuss - these do not shoot projectiles (at least as far as the game determines projectileS), and therefore, the skills do not qualify for reflection or projectile destruction.

@"cptaylor.2670" said:Why holo damage hasn't been nerfed yet?

And why they need a knockback, knockdown, invuln, stealth, constant regen, condi to boon conversion, constant quickness, constant barrier, and attacks that don't require los?

On top of this we have multiple instant cast high damaging abilities, high mobility, a shield that blocks attacks, and passive traits that reward you for spamming buttons via damage and granting quickness?

The damage is out of control, the cc is out of control, the constant 5 or more boons with no effort is out of control.

Please fix this class to be inline with all of the others. Or at least buff the other classes. It's obvious you have it out for mirage and people's chosen class to complain about is the one that gets all of the balance tweaks, but it's gone on long enough.

Yes, I do believe Holographic Shockwave needs to just be one Circle of 600 unit radius that instantly applies blast to that area, rather than a bunch of sequentially expanding doughnuts (this is why Aegis will not block Holographic Shockwave). That being said, I only see this change being valid for PvP, and not for WvW or PvE.> @"cptaylor.2670" said:

@Greyjoy.5167 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:Why holo damage hasn't been nerfed yet?

And why they need a knockback, knockdown, invuln, stealth, constant regen, condi to boon conversion, constant quickness, constant barrier, and attacks that don't require los?

On top of this we have multiple instant cast high damaging abilities, high mobility, a shield that blocks attacks, and passive traits that reward you for spamming buttons via damage and granting quickness?

The damage is out of control, the cc is out of control, the constant 5 or more boons with no effort is out of control.

Please fix this class to be inline with all of the others. Or at least buff the other classes. It's obvious you have it out for mirage and people's chosen class to complain about is the one that gets all of the balance tweaks, but it's gone on long enough.

You cant have everything you listed, because Utility skills are limited to 3. So pick the most op 3 ones and cry at these.

The standard meta build has literally every one of these things. With the exception of the passive invuln, but that's why you have the elixir, which is also tied to stealth...

I mean literally every one of these things listed.

This is why I proposed in another discussion to weaken the Tools trait line (specifically Power Wrench) and to buff infrequently used skills such as Elixir R and Coolant Blast so that Elixir Rifle is not a monotonous thing but can have some variety and so that other weapon combinations like sword/pistol, pistol/pistol, and sword/shield are more viable.> @DonArkanio.6419 said:

@Tycura.1982 said:

@DonArkanio.6419 said:ANet wants skills to do 125 things at one click, clearly. That's why everything is such a vomit.

Wait for the people who will come here and say:

BuT iT's A l2P iSsUe. HoLo Is BaLaNcEd.

Somthing somthing holo isn't OP it's just the best performing spec atm. It's not unbeatable because it has counterplay and unfavorable matchups. Plus it's not condi and that makes it inherently more fun to fight.

Ah, I guess I just forgot to have fun playing against Holos.

Holos' best performance depends on the overloaded kit.

Exactly - Protection Holosmith (besides to sequentially expanding doughnuts of Holographic Shockwave) does not need a nerf, it's only Elixir Rifle that needs some nerfs. And in general, I think that cooldown for Sigil of Absorption (a favorite of Elixir Rifle engis) needs an increased cooldown to 5 seconds, up from 3 seconds.> @praqtos.9035 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

Why forge is spammable

: Vent exhaust and insane 20-30s vigor at any moment of time allows them to spam evades even without need actually to evade anything and get rewarded for it = heat drop, heals for 786 hp , allows to spam forge nearly always and nullify the only "drawback" it ever had and can be managed easly without ever overheating.Every skill does tons of damage, cooldown on every skill is super low: holo leap 2s cd, corona burst hit TWICE on 6s cd, 10s on 4rd skill,15s on super balanced aoe knockdown. Autoattacks cant be ignored either. Everything they do worth your dodge, too bad you have only two.YIKES

Boon spam

: Look at their utility skill

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_B

and their minor passive alchemy trait

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Elixir_B

, 10 seconds less cooldown on the passive one but 2s less in duration (omegalul) as passive autoproc. Just think about it 4 boons on 24s cd as AUTOPOC without your need to use it just because you took some damage...Now this being boosted even further by elixir trait - it gives all boons for 14s and extra 2 mights(now its 7) and this only on 24s cd. Its okay to have such trait but not on such laughable low cd. The first what comes to my mind is mesmer chaos minor trait 10s regeneration on 15s cd, not even close right ? Imo cooldown of that thing must be around 60-80s cd or completely replaced.

Prismatic conversion

- insane good condi clear that convert conditions into boons with low cd on the forge and because you have vent exhaust you can safely abuse it without overheating . Could be a simple condi cleanse instead of conversion. Pretty often you can see them running around with tons of boons and 20+ might stacks.There is also condi conversion trait but its on 60s cd (48 traited) and I'm fine with it.Kinetic Battery - 5s base quickness, 7 with meta build. Exit/enter forge count as 1 stack and photon wall toobelt has only 7s cd,pretty spammable, add to it 5s cd enter and exit forge and you have 7s quickness back to back. Trait itself is fine imo but forge shouldnt count towards it, even if they disable, they still have evade-spam trait that boost forge spam even more hence why vent exhaust need to be looked at asap.

Sustain

- evade spam to drop the heat heals them for 860hp or so. Cba to do the math, someone did long ago but lazy to find, when heat goes away naturally you have 5/10 stacks of heat therapy, 1 stack is 65 which means on 5 stacks you have 325 and on 10 - 650 hps. - Gives holo tons of sustain.Turret blasting isnt news and how much health you get back, we know it,we love it, nothing to add.

Pretty annoying things

: 2 separate reveals on their own cooldowns (trait) in tools - on CC and on hiting someone in stealth (thanks to this le balanced dodge trait that drop heat ,you can evade and "accidently" reveal stealthed ppl).Stealth elixir on toolbelt completley outclasses any group stealth utilities on 32s cd for 6s (even then its worse only than two ELITE skills of scrapper sneak gyro and mesmer mass invis).Photon wall - "defensive" block that allows you to do w/e and over 50% heat can launch it for 9-12k damage (melee but not hard when they have various CC's)...defensive skill, for a moment.Invigorating speed trait - Still gives engineers 25 energy on use of elixir U, bugged fo years, I assume they cant fix it because potato coders.Takedown round - I had seen a lot of crits for 4.2k on me (privilege of playing paper class), cant even see it on the ground, hail passive autoprocs.

TLDR

Fixes that it needs : eviscerate vent exhaust by 50% (remove ~8% heat), gut all vigor traits, give proper icd on "hidden flask", cut Heat Therapy by half, stealth elixir 2s instead of 5s.

(privilege of playing paper class)

- complains about side noders outfitted to be duelists .. but since what appears to be yet another mesmer main most likely salty about CI being disabled or thief in which case has no business attempting to even fight side noders. ill go with mesmer main. amazing how you can just tell who a class is by their complaints, because they main it and don't multi-class. problem #1 for bad players.

Fixes that it needs : eviscerate vent exhaust by 50% (remove ~8% heat), gut all vigor traits, give proper icd on "hidden flask", cut Heat Therapy by half, stealth elixir 2s instead of 5s.

- so basically make spellbreaker / weaver more meta because that would kill holosmith not to mention other builds as well... this would only narrow the side noder gap even further since CI was disabled and soulbeast pretty much was taken out of it's role as well ... let's not forget that holo does need shaves but those adjustments you might as well just delete the elite spec. those changes don't improve pvp , just makes it a little less annoying because yet another class is not going to be used at all which means your next responses will be in threads like these:

"Why is weaver so broken?""Why is spellbreaker so overtuned?"

ok thanks for your input

I can accept removing Vigor bonuses for a lot of Toolkit skills. And hey, crits at 4.2K are standard if you have no toughness. If you're upset about permanent quickness uptime, you're going to need to be upset about Kinetic battery. Maybe Activate/deactivate Photon Forge should not count towards Kinetic battery - in that way, only Holosmiths would be affected by the nerf and not Scrappers and core engineers who are already significantly weaker in terms of capability. I'm a little hesitant about suggesting nerfs for Tools line in general because those other specializations exist.

@"cptaylor.2670" said:Why holo damage hasn't been nerfed yet?

And why they need a knockback, knockdown, invuln, stealth, constant regen, condi to boon conversion, constant quickness, constant barrier, and attacks that don't require los?

On top of this we have multiple instant cast high damaging abilities, high mobility, a shield that blocks attacks, and passive traits that reward you for spamming buttons via damage and granting quickness?

The damage is out of control, the cc is out of control, the constant 5 or more boons with no effort is out of control.

Please fix this class to be inline with all of the others. Or at least buff the other classes. It's obvious you have it out for mirage and people's chosen class to complain about is the one that gets all of the balance tweaks, but it's gone on long enough.

I would hope you're referring to Photon Wall as the shield and not the actual shield with the Inventions line. The Sword/Shield Holo with Inventions was essentially built for Holosmith specifically as a mass condi-cleanse + damage type. It's drawback is that it's limited to melee attacks and frankly I think Sun Edge, Sun Ripper, and Gleam Saber need a buff of range from 130 to 180, as I find myself on top of enemies in combat and not able to hit them at seemingly point blank range. As far as the shield is concerned, I do not see a balance problem with it except that ranged attackers are immune to Static Shield, I would suggest that they, too, receive a stun CC for striking someone when that skill is engaged, especially given the existence of Basilisk Venom.

Oh, and if anyone thinks that Holosmith is the most troubling profession right now, you need to see Lord Hizen's Deadeye and Mirage videos. And maybe play against a Daredevil in ranked that has so much dodge even 3 very capable players cannot hit the target because evade. Maybe reduce endurance gains on daredevil, stealth duration combos for leaps by 1 second to combat deadeye's permanent stealth, and give mirages the same penalty for evading that every other profession has, where you can't use weapon skills and utility skills with cast times while dodging. With Rune of the Adventurer, the amount of evade frames accessible to a Mirage is excessive.

[praqtos.9035]

@memausz.7264 said:If u want to respond to me, do it properly... And you could read my post first...

[Rico.6873]

Holo sword needs a buff and pvp holo needs a nerf, while pve holo needs a buff

If you are asking for holo nerfs don't forget to buff PVE holo!!!

[Enduronex.4865]

@Rico.6873 said:Holo sword needs a buff and pvp holo needs a nerf, while pve holo needs a buff

If you are asking for holo nerfs don't forget to buff PVE holo!!!

Again, please read the post. Most people are upset with Elixir Rifle, not Protection Holosmith. > @praqtos.9035 said:

@memausz.7264 said:If u want to respond to me, do it properly... And you could read my post first...

And I did read your post. It's Elixir Rifle that needs to be addressed in particular and without gutting core engineer and Scrapper (already gutted).

[Enduronex.4865]

@Rico.6873 said:Holo sword needs a buff and pvp holo needs a nerf, while pve holo needs a buff

If you are asking for holo nerfs don't forget to buff PVE holo!!!

Has anyone actually said Elixir R is too powerful? Has anyone actually ever used Coolant Blast/Cauterize other than to make jokes about how bad they are? No? There's your answer as to why reduced cooldowns or buffs are needed. If that's not acknowledged, we are going to have another momentous decision like having Photonic Blasting Module and Toolkit-Skills-disabled-upon-overheat (which is necessary using that trait) coexist which tells me that balance changes were not thought through.

[Enduronex.4865]

@MrForz.1953 said:

@"Tycura.1982" said:Somthing somthing holo isn't OP it's just the best performing spec atm. It's not unbeatable because it has counterplay and unfavorable matchups. Plus it's not condi and that makes it inherently more fun to fight.

"Hey we have weaknesses too, learn to exploit them."Heard that one way too often and not only on the Holosmith department pre-nerf.

Oh yeah, Holosmith, specifically Elixir Rifle build - needs a nerf. And the nerf needs to be done in a way that does not gut core Engineer or Scrapper.

So, ways to go about this:1) Make Holographic Shockwave a single 600-radius CC as it is now rather than a sequential set of expanding radius dougnuts, and make this change PvP-only (scourges and their condition bombs in WvW justify the expanding doughnuts in WvW).2) Make engage/disengage Photon Forge not count towards Kinetic Battery for reduced Quickness uptime. That's straight forward. It may require disabling Engaging Photon Forge as a Toolkit skill. But always be conservative in your tweaks, and if turns out the changes need to be more intense, tweak it further. Don't radically disable the toolbelt skills upon overheat and not consider that, uh, Photonic Blasting Module exists (I will continue to criticize that balance decision as long as it is not changed).3) Reduce the chances that Static Discharge attacks have to critically strike. Specifically, reduce to player's Precision chance level.4) Reduce Power wrench elite skill recharge bonus from -3 seconds to -2 seconds. This will hurt other engineers, too, but if we are speaking frankly, developers made Elixir X and Supply Crate have high base cooldowns (over 100 seconds) for a reason. This would definitely reduce the frequency Holosmiths pop the lethal Prime Light Beam when using Power Wrench.

And I'll respond the way I'd like, thank you very much.

EDIT: I'd also like to see Spellbreaker's Magebane tether duration reduced to 2 seconds and cooldown increased to 15 seconds. It's excessively utilized.

[Rico.6873]

@memausz.7264 said:

@Rico.6873 said:Holo sword needs a buff and pvp holo needs a nerf, while pve holo needs a buff

If you are asking for holo nerfs don't forget to buff PVE holo!!!

Has anyone actually said Elixir R is too powerful? Has anyone actually ever used Coolant Blast/Cauterize other than to make jokes about how bad they are? No? There's your answer as to why reduced cooldowns or buffs are needed. If that's not acknowledged, we are going to have another momentous decision like having Photonic Blasting Module and Toolkit-Skills-disabled-upon-overheat (which is necessary using that trait) coexist which tells me that balance changes were not thought through.

Well most threads that are made complain about holo in general which knowing anet will result into another PVE nerf to holo

And not to pvp holo.....

[Crab Fear.1624]

The basic complaint is that they are very hard to kill, do a lot of damage, bring a lot of cc, and if it goes south they got the mobility and stealth to bail.

Finding a time to punish mistakes is not so easy.

If you merged thief, reaper, and firebrand into one class, it would be called holosmith.

[praqtos.9035]

@memausz.7264 said:

@MrForz.1953 said:

@"Tycura.1982" said:Somthing somthing holo isn't OP it's just the best performing spec atm. It's not unbeatable because it has counterplay and unfavorable matchups. Plus it's not condi and that makes it inherently more fun to fight.

"Hey we have weaknesses too, learn to exploit them."Heard that one way too often and not only on the Holosmith department pre-nerf.

Oh yeah, Holosmith, specifically Elixir Rifle build - needs a nerf. And the nerf needs to be done in a way that does not gut core Engineer or Scrapper.

So, ways to go about this:1) Make Holographic Shockwave a single 600-radius CC as it is now rather than a sequential set of expanding radius dougnuts, and make this change PvP-only (scourges and their condition bombs in WvW justify the expanding doughnuts in WvW).2) Make engage/disengage Photon Forge not count towards Kinetic Battery for reduced Quickness uptime. That's straight forward. It may require disabling Engaging Photon Forge as a Toolkit skill. But always be conservative in your tweaks, and if turns out the changes need to be more intense, tweak it further. Don't radically disable the toolbelt skills upon overheat and not consider that, uh, Photonic Blasting Module exists (I will continue to criticize that balance decision as long as it is not changed).3) Reduce the chances that Static Discharge attacks have to critically strike. Specifically, reduce to player's Precision chance level.4) Reduce Power wrench elite skill recharge bonus from -3 seconds to -2 seconds. This will hurt other engineers, too, but if we are speaking frankly, developers made Elixir X and Supply Crate have high base cooldowns (over 100 seconds) for a reason. This would definitely reduce the frequency Holosmiths pop the lethal Prime Light Beam when using Power Wrench.

And I'll respond the way I'd like, thank you very much.Your changes makes no sense at all, except kinetic battery not being charged by forge (I suggested it in my post lol).Doesnt solve any of holo issues.Would be funny if they nerf engi over and over until they actually nerf HT/forge/vent exhaust (broken hidden flask as well pls).

[Yannir.4132]

@memausz.7264 said:So, ways to go about this:1) Make Holographic Shockwave a single 600-radius CC as it is now rather than a sequential set of expanding radius dougnuts, and make this change PvP-only (scourges and their condition bombs in WvW justify the expanding doughnuts in WvW).2) Make engage/disengage Photon Forge not count towards Kinetic Battery for reduced Quickness uptime. That's straight forward. It may require disabling Engaging Photon Forge as a Toolkit skill. But always be conservative in your tweaks, and if turns out the changes need to be more intense, tweak it further. Don't radically disable the toolbelt skills upon overheat and not consider that, uh, Photonic Blasting Module exists (I will continue to criticize that balance decision as long as it is not changed).3) Reduce the chances that Static Discharge attacks have to critically strike. Specifically, reduce to player's Precision chance level.4) Reduce Power wrench elite skill recharge bonus from -3 seconds to -2 seconds. This will hurt other engineers, too, but if we are speaking frankly, developers made Elixir X and Supply Crate have high base cooldowns (over 100 seconds) for a reason. This would definitely reduce the frequency Holosmiths pop the lethal Prime Light Beam when using Power Wrench.

And I'll respond the way I'd like, thank you very much.

EDIT: I'd also like to see Spellbreaker's Magebane tether duration reduced to 2 seconds and cooldown increased to 15 seconds. It's excessively utilized.

As far as nerfs go, these would be a good start but they are insufficient, and I don't like that you would nerf a core traitline because Holo and especially Photon Forge is overperforming. The first one is basically impossible anyway as it would make PF5 work differently between game modes and ANet doesn't do that. And that's fine in my books.

You are wrong btw. Prot Holo is an issue as well even if people are not complaining about it, and it's because of how much damage and utility is loaded into Photon Forge. One of these 2 aspects of PF needs to be reduced. Personally I'd rather PF keep most of it's damage, and cut down on the utility. That way PF stays as a nuke but a more counterable nuke. That includes reducing the effectiveness of Heat Therapy. Most high level players considered Prot Holo superior to Scrapper even before the trait rework because PF.

Holosmith is meant as a DPS spec, I'd rather if it kept that aspect. However its sustain abilities take it into the same direction as Scrapper and makes it obsolete. Prot Holo is essentially a cooler and better Scrapper.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@ZhouX.8742 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:

Why forge is spammable

: Vent exhaust and insane 20-30s vigor at any moment of time allows them to spam evades even without need actually to evade anything and get rewarded for it = heat drop, heals for 786 hp , allows to spam forge nearly always and nullify the only "drawback" it ever had and can be managed easly without ever overheating.Every skill does tons of damage, cooldown on every skill is super low: holo leap 2s cd, corona burst hit TWICE on 6s cd, 10s on 4rd skill,15s on super balanced aoe knockdown. Autoattacks cant be ignored either. Everything they do worth your dodge, too bad you have only two.YIKES

Boon spam

: Look at their utility skill

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_B

and their minor passive alchemy trait

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Elixir_B

, 10 seconds less cooldown on the passive one but 2s less in duration (omegalul) as passive autoproc. Just think about it 4 boons on 24s cd as AUTOPOC without your need to use it just because you took some damage...Now this being boosted even further by elixir trait - it gives all boons for 14s and extra 2 mights(now its 7) and this only on 24s cd. Its okay to have such trait but not on such laughable low cd. The first what comes to my mind is mesmer chaos minor trait 10s regeneration on 15s cd, not even close right ? Imo cooldown of that thing must be around 60-80s cd or completely replaced.

Prismatic conversion

- insane good condi clear that convert conditions into boons with low cd on the forge and because you have vent exhaust you can safely abuse it without overheating . Could be a simple condi cleanse instead of conversion. Pretty often you can see them running around with tons of boons and 20+ might stacks.There is also condi conversion trait but its on 60s cd (48 traited) and I'm fine with it.Kinetic Battery - 5s base quickness, 7 with meta build. Exit/enter forge count as 1 stack and photon wall toobelt has only 7s cd,pretty spammable, add to it 5s cd enter and exit forge and you have 7s quickness back to back. Trait itself is fine imo but forge shouldnt count towards it, even if they disable, they still have evade-spam trait that boost forge spam even more hence why vent exhaust need to be looked at asap.

Sustain

- evade spam to drop the heat heals them for 860hp or so. Cba to do the math, someone did long ago but lazy to find, when heat goes away naturally you have 5/10 stacks of heat therapy, 1 stack is 65 which means on 5 stacks you have 325 and on 10 - 650 hps. - Gives holo tons of sustain.Turret blasting isnt news and how much health you get back, we know it,we love it, nothing to add.

Pretty annoying things

: 2 separate reveals on their own cooldowns (trait) in tools - on CC and on hiting someone in stealth (thanks to this le balanced dodge trait that drop heat ,you can evade and "accidently" reveal stealthed ppl).Stealth elixir on toolbelt completley outclasses any group stealth utilities on 32s cd for 6s (even then its worse only than two ELITE skills of scrapper sneak gyro and mesmer mass invis).Photon wall - "defensive" block that allows you to do w/e and over 50% heat can launch it for 9-12k damage (melee but not hard when they have various CC's)...defensive skill, for a moment.Invigorating speed trait - Still gives engineers 25 energy on use of elixir U, bugged fo years, I assume they cant fix it because potato coders.Takedown round - I had seen a lot of crits for 4.2k on me (privilege of playing paper class), cant even see it on the ground, hail passive autoprocs.

TLDR

Fixes that it needs : eviscerate vent exhaust by 50% (remove ~8% heat), gut all vigor traits, give proper icd on "hidden flask", cut Heat Therapy by half, stealth elixir 2s instead of 5s.

(privilege of playing paper class)

- complains about side noders outfitted to be duelists .. but since what appears to be yet another mesmer main most likely salty about CI being disabled or thief in which case has no business attempting to even fight side noders. ill go with mesmer main. amazing how you can just tell who a class is by their complaints, because they main it and don't multi-class. problem #1 for bad players.

If you only knew how wrong you are, about pretty much everything you said there. Maybe stop making false, not to mention irrelevant, assumptions about people (seems to be a bad habit of yours) and just discuss the topic at hand.

@ZhouX.8742 said:

@saerni.2584 said:I’d like to point out that “nerfing x would make y and z better than x, so we shouldn’t nerf x” is a logical fallacy.

Other things need balancing too. Doesn’t mean people can’t suggest changes to singular professions/traits they believe are performing in an unbalanced way.

That's why shaving exists though, if you just gut 50% off skills and gut entire defensive mechanics , you render a class useless... Where does balancing other classes fit into that... That's why I said it doesn't benefit anything except make 2 side noders even more meta than they already are. I mean if your solution is to make holosmith not usable then what, nerf spellbreaker and weaver so side noding roles don't exist? I mean you can do that too, like you're obviously suggesting... But then you turn pvp into a 2 role schematic consisting of roamers and group fights - then people will complain about overtuned group fighters. Then you'll nerf those overtuned group fighters, then people will complain about roaming is a problem so nerf thief mobility, then you'll nerf thief mobility .. I think you understand where I'm going with this.

Just flat nerfing every single thing into non-existence doesnt make PvP healthy , and it doesn't bring back players.

Are you actually against reversing power creep by balancing evenly across classes as needed?

[mehelpu.7160]

Just delete quickness from sPvP and Holo will be fine. As well as warrior, deadeye, revenant

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@mehelpu.7160 said:Just delete quickness from sPvP and Holo will be fine. As well as warrior, deadeye, revenant

But what about reaper :o

[mehelpu.7160]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@mehelpu.7160 said:Just delete quickness from sPvP and Holo will be fine. As well as warrior, deadeye, revenant

But what about reaper :o

And reaper and even firebrand :)

[Khalisto.5780]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:Why holo damage hasn't been nerfed yet?

And why they need a knockback, knockdown, invuln, stealth, constant regen, condi to boon conversion, constant quickness, constant barrier, and attacks that don't require los?

On top of this we have multiple instant cast high damaging abilities, high mobility, a shield that blocks attacks, and passive traits that reward you for spamming buttons via damage and granting quickness?

The damage is out of control, the cc is out of control, the constant 5 or more boons with no effort is out of control.

Please fix this class to be inline with all of the others. Or at least buff the other classes. It's obvious you have it out for mirage and people's chosen class to complain about is the one that gets all of the balance tweaks, but it's gone on long enough.

Because mirage crying overshadows holo crying and another class takes the hammer in between the mirage nerfs (ps. I'm ele main, prolly the class being nerfed this patch)

Nerf history (and all holo nerf dodges)

1. First attempt to nerf axe mirage
2. First attempt to nerf boon beast
3. Actuall nerf to axe mirage
4. Second attempt to nerf boon beast
5. Warrior FC nerf
6. Actual nerf to boon beast
7. A lot of stuff I don't remember
8. Warrior gs f1 nerf
9. Scrapper nerf
10. rev nerf
11. Sic'em nerf
12. warrior rampage nerf
13. CI mesmer nerf

This patch will prolly be fire weaver nerf, and after this prolly the next mirage condi build nerf, next it's prolly another warrior nerf or the cancer bunker rev nerf

Learn holo is such a great deal

[OddFinrir.6801]

@mehelpu.7160 said:Just delete quickness from sPvP and Holo will be fine. As well as warrior, deadeye, revenant

What if we make quickness cause reduced damage with your skills? It already works that way with Meteor Storm.

[Lighter.5631]

before holo nerf, there's so many should be nerfed, for example, fire weaver, poison thief, support fbafter that power rev and holo, scourge nerfs at the same time

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"Lighter.5631" said:

before holo nerf, there's so many should be nerfed, for example, fire weaver, poison thief, support fbafter that power rev and holo, scourge nerfs at the same time

Yeah ele and thief can now win some 1v1's ooohhhh noooo nerf nerf now lmao least ur match was close so not sure what the pics showing, or is it cuz theres 3 thieves on one side? I just did a match where we won 500-5 lol that's uneven.

[Lighter.5631]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Lighter.5631" said:

before holo nerf, there's so many should be nerfed, for example, fire weaver, poison thief, support fbafter that power rev and holo, scourge nerfs at the same time

Yeah ele and thief can now win some 1v1's ooohhhh noooo nerf nerf now lmao least ur match was close so not sure what the pics showing, or is it cuz theres 3 thieves on one side? I just did a match where we won 500-5 lol that's uneven.

No, the problem is ele is currently the best side noder and does way too much burning damage, and poison thief requires no skill to play and melt most builds, including holo and warrior and imo performs better then power s/d

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

before holo nerf, there's so many should be nerfed, for example, fire weaver, poison thief, support fbafter that power rev and holo, scourge nerfs at the same time

Yeah ele and thief can now win some 1v1's ooohhhh noooo nerf nerf now lmao least ur match was close so not sure what the pics showing, or is it cuz theres 3 thieves on one side? I just did a match where we won 500-5 lol that's uneven.

No, the problem is ele is currently the best side noder and does way too much burning damage, and poison thief requires no skill to play and melt most builds, including holo and warrior and imo performs better then power s/d

Yet I have no issues with either hmmm.

[mehelpu.7160]

@OddFinrir.6801 said:

@mehelpu.7160 said:Just delete quickness from sPvP and Holo will be fine. As well as warrior, deadeye, revenant

What if we make quickness cause reduced damage with your skills? It already works that way with Meteor Storm.

Could also reduce precision, outgoing condi/boons duration etc. But is too complicated. Only two things actually needed:1) reduce overall uptime at least by a half2) reduce effect from +50% skill cast speed to let's say +10-15%

The change I believe could be splitted relatively easy to not affect PvE.

Quickness as it is nowa) breaks skills balanced with visual telegraphs making them too fast to react tob) breaks game/network systems giving us many stealth and position desyncs (e.g. a deadeye multi-hits you from stealth while you can see him first only after you're downed already.)c) power- (and sometimes sustain- ) creeps the game too much

[Enduronex.4865]

@Yannir.4132 said:

@memausz.7264 said:So, ways to go about this:1) Make Holographic Shockwave a single 600-radius CC as it is now rather than a sequential set of expanding radius dougnuts, and make this change PvP-only (scourges and their condition bombs in WvW justify the expanding doughnuts in WvW).2) Make engage/disengage Photon Forge not count towards Kinetic Battery for reduced Quickness uptime. That's straight forward. It may require disabling Engaging Photon Forge as a Toolkit skill. But always be conservative in your tweaks, and if turns out the changes need to be more intense, tweak it further. Don't radically disable the toolbelt skills upon overheat and not consider that, uh, Photonic Blasting Module exists (I will continue to criticize that balance decision as long as it is not changed).3) Reduce the chances that Static Discharge attacks have to critically strike. Specifically, reduce to player's Precision chance level.4) Reduce Power wrench elite skill recharge bonus from -3 seconds to -2 seconds. This will hurt other engineers, too, but if we are speaking frankly, developers made Elixir X and Supply Crate have high base cooldowns (over 100 seconds) for a reason. This would definitely reduce the frequency Holosmiths pop the lethal Prime Light Beam when using Power Wrench.

And I'll respond the way I'd like, thank you very much.

EDIT: I'd also like to see Spellbreaker's Magebane tether duration reduced to 2 seconds and cooldown increased to 15 seconds. It's excessively utilized.

As far as nerfs go, these would be a good start but they are insufficient, and I don't like that you would nerf a core traitline because Holo and especially Photon Forge is overperforming. The first one is basically impossible anyway as it would make PF5 work differently between game modes and ANet doesn't do that. And that's fine in my books.

You are wrong btw. Prot Holo is an issue as well even if people are not complaining about it, and it's because of how much damage and utility is loaded into Photon Forge. One of these 2 aspects of PF needs to be reduced. Personally I'd rather PF keep most of it's damage, and cut down on the utility. That way PF stays as a nuke but a more counterable nuke. That includes reducing the effectiveness of Heat Therapy. Most high level players considered Prot Holo superior to Scrapper even before the trait rework because PF.

Holosmith is meant as a DPS spec, I'd rather if it kept that aspect. However its sustain abilities take it into the same direction as Scrapper and makes it obsolete. Prot Holo is essentially a cooler and better Scrapper.

But that's how you end up nuking a build the same way they did Scrapper ugly :O - it needs tweaks, not rewrites.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Khalisto.5780 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:Why holo damage hasn't been nerfed yet?

And why they need a knockback, knockdown, invuln, stealth, constant regen, condi to boon conversion, constant quickness, constant barrier, and attacks that don't require los?

On top of this we have multiple instant cast high damaging abilities, high mobility, a shield that blocks attacks, and passive traits that reward you for spamming buttons via damage and granting quickness?

The damage is out of control, the cc is out of control, the constant 5 or more boons with no effort is out of control.

Please fix this class to be inline with all of the others. Or at least buff the other classes. It's obvious you have it out for mirage and people's chosen class to complain about is the one that gets all of the balance tweaks, but it's gone on long enough.

Because mirage crying overshadows holo crying and another class takes the hammer in between the mirage nerfs (ps. I'm ele main, prolly the class being nerfed this patch)

Nerf history (and all holo nerf dodges)

1. First attempt to nerf axe mirage
2. First attempt to nerf boon beast
3. Actuall nerf to axe mirage
4. Second attempt to nerf boon beast
5. Warrior FC nerf
6. Actual nerf to boon beast
7. A lot of stuff I don't remember
8. Warrior gs f1 nerf
9. Scrapper nerf
10. rev nerf
11. Sic'em nerf
12. warrior rampage nerf
13. CI mesmer nerf

This patch will prolly be fire weaver nerf, and after this prolly the next mirage condi build nerf, next it's prolly another warrior nerf or the cancer bunker rev nerf

Learn holo is such a great deal

Life is great when you have a selective memory.