The Complete Rifle and Deadeye Fix Thread

[Doctor Hide.6345]

@Kuulpb.5412 said:I would prefer a war rifle buff :D ( I comment this too many times, I know, but seriously, I feel warrior rifle that has existed longer should get a buff so it's a stronger weapon than warrior longbow, before thief rifle gets buffed)

The Warrior is not built around the rifle though while the Deadeye is built around it. Time is of the essence in my mind for the Deadeye's rifle to get buffed before groups and people start complaining at Deadeye players to switch to Daredevil. I do not want that movement to grow any larger then it already is.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Riddle.2714 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Riddle.2714 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:I think P/P should be in-between Rifle Standing and Rifle Kneeling. Standing -> P/P -> Kneeling. That gives you a reason to still use Pistols. If you make Rifle overall superior in every way compared to P/P it becomes an outdated weapon combo that'll rarely be used.

Weaponset should have its own merits, is all I'm saying.

Main reason using Pistol is the mobility. Also Rifle standing skills are weak compared to pistols..

Rifle-standing has more mobility than P/P though, and I know rifle-standing is weak, it's supposed to make up for that by kneeling, that's just how rifle is designed. Problem is standing isn't worth using because it lacks damage, and kneeling isn't worth doing as it's too risky (PvE). Something needs to be done to make the latter worth the risk.

Agree with you here. Kneeling is risky and unrewarding. Immobile while dps is just slightly 'higher' than mobile is just bad.

@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

I'm also not keen on the 10% damage increase across the board. The DE Rifle wrecks people in PvP pretty hard despite the current state. And most of the time, the reasonings players have for why DE sucks outside of damage, are just what ifs that could honestly go either way.

Increasing the rifle's damage by 10% is likely going to cause people to scream for nerfs when more players figure out how to play DE for themselves, and Thief will get another god kitten nerf it does not need.

Something small like a nudge of 5-6%? sure.

Oor just increase DJ's damage modifier? Hey, It's supposed to be our trump card right? Just my thought :)

@Riddle.2714 said:

@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

I'm also not keen on the 10% damage increase across the board. The DE Rifle wrecks people in PvP pretty hard despite the current state. And most of the time, the reasonings players have for why DE sucks outside of damage, are just what ifs that could honestly go either way.

Increasing the rifle's damage by 10% is likely going to cause people to scream for nerfs when more players figure out how to play DE for themselves, and Thief will get another god kitten nerf it does not need.

Something small like a nudge of 5-6%? sure.

Oor just increase DJ's damage modifier? Hey, It's supposed to be our trump card right? Just my thought :)

That I wouldn't mind. 15% per stack is pretty kitten massive. But I've got no problems with it being higher.

PvE-wise -- It's hard to reach maximum damage possible, since all planets must be aligned to pop those big numbers. 25 mights, 7 malice, kneeling mode, invuln stacks, crit chance(very rarely, but it hurts so much when it happens :( ). I thought if they can't tune up the requirements, at least make DJ MUCH more rewarding once pulled off.

By increasing damage modifier, it shouldn't hurt PvP as much as other ways. Since it's easy to dodge, miss, etc,etc and if--someone got hit by a full-malice DJ, he should be dead in the first place.

I've not had a problem with one shotting people without the stars aligning. It depends on how you build, which most people build to some sort of meta, instead of to their playstyle which would probably be a LOT stronger than a meta build. One of my favorite builds revolves around using traps, knock downs, and fast might stacking. Generally kills players in one or two stacks of malice.

[Sobx.1758]

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:

@Kuulpb.5412 said:I would prefer a war rifle buff :D ( I comment this too many times, I know, but seriously, I feel warrior rifle that has existed longer should get a buff so it's a stronger weapon than warrior longbow, before thief rifle gets buffed)

The Warrior is not built around the rifle though while the Deadeye is built around it. Time is of the essence in my mind for the Deadeye's rifle to get buffed before groups and people start complaining at Deadeye players to switch to Daredevil. I do not want that movement to grow any larger then it already is.

True, the problem is that the class is literally supposed to be built around that weapon and it's just... suboptimal to say the least.

[Cameryn.5310]

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:The Warrior is not built around the rifle though while the Deadeye is built around it. Time is of the essence in my mind for the Deadeye's rifle to get buffed before groups and people start complaining at Deadeye players to switch to Daredevil. I do not want that movement to grow any larger then it already is.

I hate to keep beating a dead horse in this section, but even though Deadeye is primarily built for the rifle, it synergizes very well with dual pistol builds too (the ranged steal, added ranged DPS bonus, etc.) Just saying.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

@Cameryn.5310 said:

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:The Warrior is not built around the rifle though while the Deadeye is built around it. Time is of the essence in my mind for the Deadeye's rifle to get buffed before groups and people start complaining at Deadeye players to switch to Daredevil. I do not want that movement to grow any larger then it already is.

I hate to keep beating a dead horse in this section, but even though Deadeye is primarily built for the rifle, it synergizes very well with dual pistol builds too (the ranged steal, added ranged DPS bonus, etc.) Just saying.

I know it does, but just because other weapons work with it doesn't mean the warrior's rifle should get priority over it when the warrior already has the long bow for range damage.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Zacchary.6183 said:

Rifle Damage < Unload Damage

Biggest complaint so far is damage. Though, I personally doubt the Rifle is the issue since after testing it myself I found that this is only true when the Deadeye is standing. That doesn't mean that it could not use a buff.

• So let's give Rifle a 10-15% damage increase across the board. That would put Rifle standing skills just under or on par with p/p damage while giving Kneeling skills a clear damage advantage.

I doubt this will happen because Unload deals more damage due to its proximity to the target. You shouldn't be out damaging that at 1200 to 1500 range.There are 2 problems here;1) Unload's effective cost is 3 init for 8 shots and Double Tap costs 4 init for 2 shots2) The might stack per initiative cost is disproportional too in addition to the Rifle's might only lasts 6s while Unload's might lasts 8s.

A possible solution is to even these two out in terms of cost and Might stack quality & quantity. Increasing damage across the board will just cause a lot of problems because of M7.

Range Vs. Longbow Range and Common Sense

The longbow and it's arc allows arrows to reach up to 2000 1750 range even though the indicated range is 1500. This is stupid and very immersion breaking for a sniper to be outranged by a bow.

• So if longbow ranges are not going to be toned down, then kneeling range should be increased to 2000.

Longbow loses range advantage if their target is on top of the hill. Those on the higher ground always have the advantage.

Mobility and Kneeling

I would like this to be improved by allowing me to move 100 range without canceling kneel. This will give me a way to adjust my position and if I moved more than 100 range, it'll just cancel the kneeling altogether. Less button I need to press, the better my quality of life is. I don't like the idea about dodge roll cancels kneeling.

Discuss.

One thing I would add that needs fixing is Malice duration and reapplications. Malice should last longer than the skill's cooldown so it can give us the opportunity to reapply it before it falls off. Next, make the casting time instant just like Steal or maybe 0.25 seconds. The 25s duration and the 30s cooldown plus the .5s casting time make this skill really annoying and clunky to use.

[Saraneth.6021]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

Rifle Damage < Unload Damage

Biggest complaint so far is damage. Though, I personally doubt the Rifle is the issue since after testing it myself I found that this is only true when the Deadeye is standing. That doesn't mean that it could not use a buff.

• So let's give Rifle a 10-15% damage increase across the board. That would put Rifle standing skills just under or on par with p/p damage while giving Kneeling skills a clear damage advantage.

I doubt this will happen because Unload deals more damage due to its proximity to the target. You shouldn't be out damaging that at 1200 to 1500 range.

They said there were breaking their own rules with deadeye and making ranged as powerful as melee. The not being able to move was supposed to be the thing that kept it balanced.

So yes, we should be out damaging it or at least have it be even!

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Saraneth.6021 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

Rifle Damage < Unload Damage

Biggest complaint so far is damage. Though, I personally doubt the Rifle is the issue since after testing it myself I found that this is only true when the Deadeye is standing. That doesn't mean that it could not use a buff.

• So let's give Rifle a 10-15% damage increase across the board. That would put Rifle standing skills just under or on par with p/p damage while giving Kneeling skills a clear damage advantage.

I doubt this will happen because Unload deals more damage due to its proximity to the target. You shouldn't be out damaging that at 1200 to 1500 range.

They said there were breaking their own rules with deadeye and making ranged as powerful as melee. The not being able to move was supposed to be the thing that kept it balanced.

So yes, we should be out damaging it or at least have it be even!

I've explained that already if you just read the rest of my reply.

[Saraneth.6021]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Saraneth.6021 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

Rifle Damage < Unload Damage

Biggest complaint so far is damage. Though, I personally doubt the Rifle is the issue since after testing it myself I found that this is only true when the Deadeye is standing. That doesn't mean that it could not use a buff.

• So let's give Rifle a 10-15% damage increase across the board. That would put Rifle standing skills just under or on par with p/p damage while giving Kneeling skills a clear damage advantage.

I doubt this will happen because Unload deals more damage due to its proximity to the target. You shouldn't be out damaging that at 1200 to 1500 range.

They said there were breaking their own rules with deadeye and making ranged as powerful as melee. The not being able to move was supposed to be the thing that kept it balanced.

So yes, we should be out damaging it or at least have it be even!

I've explained that already if you just read the rest of my reply.

Read it several times and I can't see anything related to that in your reply... unless I am fucking blind.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Saraneth.6021 said:

Read it several times and I can't see anything related to that in your reply... unless I am kitten blind.

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:There are 2 problems here;1) Unload's effective cost is 3 init for 8 shots and Double Tap costs 4 init for 2 shots2) The might stack per initiative cost is disproportional too in addition to the Rifle's might only lasts 6s while Unload's might lasts 8s.

A possible solution is to even these two out in terms of cost and Might stack quality & quantity. Increasing damage across the board will just cause a lot of problems because of M7.

[Saraneth.6021]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Saraneth.6021 said:

Read it several times and I can't see anything related to that in your reply... unless I am kitten blind.

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:There are 2 problems here;1) Unload's effective cost is 3 init for 8 shots and Double Tap costs 4 init for 2 shots2) The might stack per initiative cost is disproportional too in addition to the Rifle's might only lasts 6s while Unload's might lasts 8s.

A possible solution is to even these two out in terms of cost and Might stack quality & quantity. Increasing damage across the board will just cause a lot of problems because of M7.

That's why I missed it. You DID NOT mention how they said rifle was supposed to be on par with melee.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Saraneth.6021 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Saraneth.6021 said:

Read it several times and I can't see anything related to that in your reply... unless I am kitten blind.

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:There are 2 problems here;1) Unload's effective cost is 3 init for 8 shots and Double Tap costs 4 init for 2 shots2) The might stack per initiative cost is disproportional too in addition to the Rifle's might only lasts 6s while Unload's might lasts 8s.

A possible solution is to even these two out in terms of cost and Might stack quality & quantity. Increasing damage across the board will just cause a lot of problems because of M7.

That's why I missed it. You DID NOT mention how they said rifle was supposed to be on par with melee.

I'm actually replying to your statement;"So yes, we should be out damaging it or at least have it be even!"

Which is exactly what I've suggested;"A possible solution is to even these two out in terms of cost and Might stack quality & quantity"

[Saraneth.6021]

So we were both talking about different things. Great.

[Conncept.7638]

@Saraneth.6021 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:I think P/P should be in-between Rifle Standing and Rifle Kneeling. Standing -> P/P -> Kneeling. That gives you a reason to still use Pistols. If you make Rifle overall superior in every way compared to P/P it becomes an outdated weapon combo that'll rarely be used.

Weaponset should have its own merits, is all I'm saying.

Rifle is part of the elite spec. It should be better than P/P.

Then what would be the point of ever using a non-elite spec build again? Exactly, none.

Elite specs are supposed to provide more build variety, not remove more variety from the game than they provide. And the developers stated so in the PoF launch announcement so if you want to argue the point, take it up with ANet. Furthermore, if all you want from the elite specs is power creep, then go play WoW, or a million different asian grinders, and slog out a new level cap every two years.

That having been said, the rifle should deal more power damage than PP, not because it's an elite spec, but because it comes without the option of conditions/hybrid damage, has fewer control skills and effects, and comes with a built in mobility disadvantage that is supposed to justify higher damage, but in the end it just doesn't have that higher damage, at least not in PvE.

[Saraneth.6021]

@Conncept.7638 said:

@Saraneth.6021 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:I think P/P should be in-between Rifle Standing and Rifle Kneeling. Standing -> P/P -> Kneeling. That gives you a reason to still use Pistols. If you make Rifle overall superior in every way compared to P/P it becomes an outdated weapon combo that'll rarely be used.

Weaponset should have its own merits, is all I'm saying.

Rifle is part of the elite spec. It should be better than P/P.

Then what would be the point of ever using a non-elite spec again? Exactly, none.

There is no point... Why gim.p yourself? Unless you are only playing vanilla.

[Tony Nova.1832]

I love the idea behind Deadeye with it being a sniper. However, my issues are when you are crouched. It seems like malice takes too long to build up and enemies are on me way too quick. My suggestions would be to increase rifles range so you can engage targets further away, add a snare to the #2 standing ability, change the #4 standing ability in to a knockback, add a defensive shield to kneel, and make it so malice buffs damage output while standing.

[Maugetarr.6823]

An alternative idea to my own up above. Double Tap is a redundant/weaker version of 3RB, so remove Double Tap and put 3RB in its place. Make Snipers Cover a skill still and have that be the kneeling 3 skill. Leave damage on 3RB where it is, but reduce initiative cost to 3 and/or increase might duration to 8 seconds. I think this might help reduce the huge disparity between damage of standing/kneeling and help to be able to select between kneeling and stealthing while letting the devs keep free action as the rollover 5 skill.

And please fix the pathing of Death's Retreat.

[Elxdark.9702]

Bugs so far:

• Cursed Bullet doesn't work with rending shade
• Shadow meld doesn't proc surging runes
• A lot of no valid path/line of sight bugs with Deadeye mark
• Death's retreat path is bugged as hell
• Perfectionist has a 8s CD but it only procs once per mark, is this intended? if so why does it have a cd??? I consider it a bug.
• Binding Shadows goes on full cool down even if you cancel it or the target is out of site. (I.e. behind a wall)
• Shadow meld isn't affected by improvisation (tested myself)

None of this has been fixed, I made a thread but no dev replies or patch notes, it seems this is spec is really dead.

[anonthefelon.8951]

Just spitballing, but what if Malice worked in reverse. You mark a target and gain 5/7 pips, and lose them at the same rate you would otherwise gain them.This would motivate dumping on a single target and sniping that target, then moving on.It would also be in line with sniping in general. Where you kill your target and displace.

[Ohoni.6057]

@TwiceDead.1963 said:Besides, by your logic that a weapon is what makes an entire elite specialization and anything outside it is pointless (which is a ludicrous claim, btw) , people running Druid would be running with staff exclusively. Try any other Elite and try the same question, are the players only running the elite weapon?

The new weapons are a major part of new specs. Maybe not the ONLY part, but they are the biggest, flashiest part, and they should be a valuable addition to the player's arsenal. If a new spec's unique weapon does not justify most players using it most of the time, then they really should be tweaking it so that they'll want to, and the only thing keeping them from doing so is strong personal preference against it.

If you take the rifle out of the equation, the DE really doesn't add remotely as much to the thief's toolkit as Daredevil does. If this had been the HoT spec, or if they hadn't have nerfed core Thief to make room for Daredevil, then Deadeye might appear interesting, but in the current game, no.

@Conncept.7638 said:Then what would be the point of ever using a non-elite spec build again? Exactly, none.

Elite specs are supposed to provide more build variety, not remove more variety from the game than they provide. And the developers stated so in the PoF launch announcement so if you want to argue the point, take it up with ANet. Furthermore, if all you want from the elite specs is power creep, then go play WoW, or a million different asian grinders, and slog out a new level cap every two years.

That having been said, the rifle should deal more power damage than PP, not because it's an elite spec, but because it comes without the option of conditions/hybrid damage, has fewer control skills and effects, and comes with a built in mobility disadvantage that is supposed to justify higher damage, but in the end it just doesn't have that higher damage, at least not in PvE.

Elite specs should, and typically do provide more power than the core specs. There is nothing wrong with that (so long as each elite spec is balanced against the other elite specs). You shouldn't have to use the spec-specific weapon, there should be alternate build options that are effective in other ways, but the spec-specific weapon should be at least as good as any other option in the average situation.

[Zacchary.6183]

@Elxdark.9702 said:Bugs so far:

• Cursed Bullet doesn't work with rending shade
• Shadow meld doesn't proc surging runes
• A lot of no valid path/line of sight bugs with Deadeye mark
• Death's retreat path is bugged as hell
• Perfectionist has a 8s CD but it only procs once per mark, is this intended? if so why does it have a cd??? I consider it a bug.
• Binding Shadows goes on full cool down even if you cancel it or the target is out of site. (I.e. behind a wall)
• Shadow meld isn't affected by improvisation (tested myself)

None of this has been fixed, I made a thread but no dev replies or patch notes, it seems this is spec is really dead.

I'll put these up. I don't know much about the perfectionist one since I have not done any real testing, but theoretically it should work. As for shadow meld, are you talking about the One In the Chamber trait not procing Improv? If so that is intended.

[Elxdark.9702]

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@Elxdark.9702 said:Bugs so far:

• Cursed Bullet doesn't work with rending shade
• Shadow meld doesn't proc surging runes
• A lot of no valid path/line of sight bugs with Deadeye mark
• Death's retreat path is bugged as hell
• Perfectionist has a 8s CD but it only procs once per mark, is this intended? if so why does it have a cd??? I consider it a bug.
• Binding Shadows goes on full cool down even if you cancel it or the target is out of site. (I.e. behind a wall)
• Shadow meld isn't affected by improvisation (tested myself)

None of this has been fixed, I made a thread but no dev replies or patch notes, it seems this is spec is really

dead

.

I'll put these up. I don't know much about the perfectionist one since I have not done any real testing, but theoretically it should work. As for shadow meld, are you talking about the One In the Chamber trait not procing Improv? If so that is intended.

I'm really confused about Perfectionist because it has a 8s cd but it only procs once per mark, so why does it even have a cd? it makes no sense unless it was supposed to proc again...About improvisation and shadow meld, what I mean is that improvisation works on cantrips but it doesn't reset shadow meld, I just tested it. It did reset blinding shadows but shadow meld was unaffected, I may even upload a video if you guys want to verify.

[Zacchary.6183]

@Elxdark.9702 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@Elxdark.9702 said:Bugs so far:

• Cursed Bullet doesn't work with rending shade
• Shadow meld doesn't proc surging runes
• A lot of no valid path/line of sight bugs with Deadeye mark
• Death's retreat path is bugged as hell
• Perfectionist has a 8s CD but it only procs once per mark, is this intended? if so why does it have a cd??? I consider it a bug.
• Binding Shadows goes on full cool down even if you cancel it or the target is out of site. (I.e. behind a wall)
• Shadow meld isn't affected by improvisation (tested myself)

None of this has been fixed, I made a thread but no dev replies or patch notes, it seems this is spec is really

dead

.

I'll put these up. I don't know much about the perfectionist one since I have not done any real testing, but theoretically it should work. As for shadow meld, are you talking about the One In the Chamber trait not procing Improv? If so that is intended.

I'm really confused about Perfectionist because it has a 8s cd but it only procs once per mark, so why does it even have a cd? it makes no sense

unless

it was supposed to proc again...About improvisation and shadow meld, what I mean is that improvisation works on cantrips but it doesn't reset shadow meld, I just tested it. It did reset blinding shadows but shadow meld was unaffected, I may even upload a video if you guys want to verify.

OH you mean that you use improv with multiple cantrips, all on CD, and Shadow Meld did not fully recharge while the other cantrips did? There could be an issue with the ammo system where it only recharged one instead of both uses. Might want to test it out to make sure.

[Elxdark.9702]

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@Elxdark.9702 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@Elxdark.9702 said:Bugs so far:

• Cursed Bullet doesn't work with rending shade
• Shadow meld doesn't proc surging runes
• A lot of no valid path/line of sight bugs with Deadeye mark
• Death's retreat path is bugged as hell
• Perfectionist has a 8s CD but it only procs once per mark, is this intended? if so why does it have a cd??? I consider it a bug.
• Binding Shadows goes on full cool down even if you cancel it or the target is out of site. (I.e. behind a wall)
• Shadow meld isn't affected by improvisation (tested myself)

None of this has been fixed, I made a thread but no dev replies or patch notes, it seems this is spec is really

dead

.

I'll put these up. I don't know much about the perfectionist one since I have not done any real testing, but theoretically it should work. As for shadow meld, are you talking about the One In the Chamber trait not procing Improv? If so that is intended.

I'm really confused about Perfectionist because it has a 8s cd but it only procs once per mark, so why does it even have a cd? it makes no sense

unless

it was supposed to proc again...About improvisation and shadow meld, what I mean is that improvisation works on cantrips but it doesn't reset shadow meld, I just tested it. It did reset blinding shadows but shadow meld was unaffected, I may even upload a video if you guys want to verify.

OH you mean that you use improv with multiple cantrips, all on CD, and Shadow Meld did not fully recharge while the other cantrips did? There could be an issue with the ammo system where it only recharged one instead of both uses. Might want to test it out to make sure.

Yep, on my test I used blinding shadows and shadow meld, it reset blinding shadows 3 times and never shadow meld.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

appreciate this bug, but sometimes when i gain a skill AFTER i kill a target i can hold the skill, i hope you are all jealous!.

shadow gust requires line of sight despite target being out of range...why cant it act like Blinding Powder and require no target...oh wait, i HAVE to break target lock then use it...