The Complete Rifle and Deadeye Fix Thread

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

Add the Death's Retreat to your bug fixes.

If something is behind you within the range that death's retreat would normally operate, you will not shadow step anywhere. Instead you will shadow step in place and waste initiative.

[Zacchary.6183]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:Add the Death's Retreat to your bug fixes.

If something is behind you within the range that death's retreat would normally operate, you will not shadow step anywhere. Instead you will shadow step in place and waste initiative.

I've noticed that. Added.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

Anyways, I'm fine with Mark's Boon and Condi durations. Expertise and Concentration don't do very well on it. BUT... Griever's is pretty damn beast with the mark given that it can be used to apply condi's at 1500 range, plus venoms if you use Deadly Arts Mug. A good way to open up on someone given that you normally need your mark on em.

The boons provided by Mark also feels long enough when used with M7, instead of just five malice.

I'm also not keen on the 10% damage increase across the board. The DE Rifle wrecks people in PvP pretty hard despite the current state. And most of the time, the reasonings players have for why DE sucks outside of damage, are just what ifs that could honestly go either way.

Increasing the rifle's damage by 10% is likely going to cause people to scream for nerfs when more players figure out how to play DE for themselves, and Thief will get another god damn nerf it does not need.

Something small like a nudge of 5-6%? sure.

[Riddle.2714]

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Riddle.2714 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:I think P/P should be in-between Rifle Standing and Rifle Kneeling. Standing -> P/P -> Kneeling. That gives you a reason to still use Pistols. If you make Rifle overall superior in every way compared to P/P it becomes an outdated weapon combo that'll rarely be used.

Weaponset should have its own merits, is all I'm saying.

Main reason using Pistol is the mobility. Also Rifle standing skills are weak compared to pistols..

Rifle-standing has more mobility than P/P though, and I know rifle-standing is weak, it's supposed to make up for that by kneeling, that's just how rifle is designed. Problem is standing isn't worth using because it lacks damage, and kneeling isn't worth doing as it's too risky (PvE). Something needs to be done to make the latter worth the risk.

Agree with you here. Kneeling is risky and unrewarding. Immobile while dps is just slightly 'higher' than mobile is just bad.

@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

I'm also not keen on the 10% damage increase across the board. The DE Rifle wrecks people in PvP pretty hard despite the current state. And most of the time, the reasonings players have for why DE sucks outside of damage, are just what ifs that could honestly go either way.

Increasing the rifle's damage by 10% is likely going to cause people to scream for nerfs when more players figure out how to play DE for themselves, and Thief will get another god kitten nerf it does not need.

Something small like a nudge of 5-6%? sure.

Oor just increase DJ's damage modifier? Hey, It's supposed to be our trump card right? Just my thought :)

[knyy.6427]

How to fix:Skill split pve from PvP/wvw. Buff the rifle dmg around 33%+Fixed.

[tongpo.3184]

IMO, you fix rifle by making standing better.

They wanted to make sniper mode a "thoughtful decision". But right now, that is impossible because standing is just terrible. All the abilities are a waste of initiative while standing so there really is no decision to be made. While standing, I want to find a place to kneel. If I cannot, then I don't want the rifle out. Currently, its not thoughtful at all, its a mandatory one if you want to use the rifle.

IMO, standing abilities should be the same as kneeling. No reason to have gimped/useless abilities when standing and running. Kneeling should then offer other utilities like: auto attacks pierce, range increases to that of ranger longbow +100 (because a longbow should not out range a sniper gun), doubles the change to add a stack of malice on abilities, and abilities that land will refund 1 initiative.

This way while there is a clear advantage to using kneeling, I don't feel as if I am doing something terrible with my life if I am standing with the rifle.

Most importantly, auto attack speed and damage need a bump up and using rifle should have a increased chance to add a stack of malice. I doubt they will never match standing and kneeling abilities, but if they don't do something about the autos and malice stacking with the rifle, this spec will never be all that useful.

[Elyxia.2943]

@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:Anyways, I'm fine with Mark's Boon and Condi durations. Expertise and Concentration don't do very well on it. BUT... Griever's is pretty kitten beast with the mark given that it can be used to apply condi's at 1500 range, plus venoms if you use Deadly Arts Mug. A good way to open up on someone given that you normally need your mark on em.

The boons provided by Mark also feels long enough when used with M7, instead of just five malice.

I'm also not keen on the 10% damage increase across the board. The DE Rifle wrecks people in PvP pretty hard despite the current state. And most of the time, the reasonings players have for why DE sucks outside of damage, are just what ifs that could honestly go either way.

Increasing the rifle's damage by 10% is likely going to cause people to scream for nerfs when more players figure out how to play DE for themselves, and Thief will get another god kitten nerf it does not need.

Something small like a nudge of 5-6%? sure.

you play a crazy build ... no playable ... good guys eat you...

[babazhook.6805]

The Duration on the stolen skills IMO is fine given malice increases the same. A 50 percent increase of both boon/condition duration as example would mean at 5 malice I could generate 15 seconds protection via durability steal on a single cast increasing that to 30 when used with Improv. This is not even considering using mercy at that 5 malice for two more back to back.

Steal time would give 12 seconds quickness when used with improv with the potential to add another 12 seconds via mercy reset and or reset with sowrd and swindlers. That is a LOT of quickness. I do not think you can look at base durations and separate them from what happens when malice brings the same to 100 percent with no training in expertise or concentration and or how mercy or steal reset (let alone one in the chamber adds) can extend these durations.

What I would do is increase the radius of Peripheral vision and fire for effect to 400.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

One in the chamber trait : when combined with improvisation should still give 2 stolen skills instead of 1. regardless if you steal it or not its still considered a "stolen skill" the only way to get 2 from improvisation is to mark then use both stolen skills, if following up with a cantrip then you only get 1...it should be 2 considering its a STOLEN SKILL

[chronometria.3708]

I want the mark to have a range boost. As it stands, mark is the first thing we should be doing, yet it cant be applied at the range that is needed.

[Lyger.5429]

Thanks for compiling this into one thread Deadeye definitely has a lot of issues that need to be looked at. Especially the no line of sight thing and initiative costs.

[Asur.9178]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you're all wasting your time. All these threads and replies stating suggestions are meaningless when they fall on deaf ears.

The most devs will do for this joke espec is tweak numbers. They won't overhaul or significantly change any mechanics/skills/traits. If they were going to do that, they would have already done so after taking in the feedbacks starting from the very first demo weekend.

Having said that, if you want to truly enjoy the DE spec, go play a lb SlB. It does a far better job at everything, including AoE damage and dealing with reflects than the joke DE.

[bzcharkl.6438]

Rifle auto-attack while kneeling really needs to pierce (even if it's only while traited)

[Ellisande.5218]

@TwiceDead.1963 said:I think P/P should be in-between Rifle Standing and Rifle Kneeling. Standing -> P/P -> Kneeling. That gives you a reason to still use Pistols. If you make Rifle overall superior in every way compared to P/P it becomes an outdated weapon combo that'll rarely be used.

Weaponsets should have their own merits, is all I'm saying.

It is fine for Rifle to obsolete P/P for Deadeyes because using a rifle IS THE FREAKING POINT OF GOING DEADEYE.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Elyxia.2943 said:

@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:Anyways, I'm fine with Mark's Boon and Condi durations. Expertise and Concentration don't do very well on it. BUT... Griever's is pretty kitten beast with the mark given that it can be used to apply condi's at 1500 range, plus venoms if you use Deadly Arts Mug. A good way to open up on someone given that you normally need your mark on em.

The boons provided by Mark also feels long enough when used with M7, instead of just five malice.

I'm also not keen on the 10% damage increase across the board. The DE Rifle wrecks people in PvP pretty hard despite the current state. And most of the time, the reasonings players have for why DE sucks outside of damage, are just what ifs that could honestly go either way.

Increasing the rifle's damage by 10% is likely going to cause people to scream for nerfs when more players figure out how to play DE for themselves, and Thief will get another god kitten nerf it does not need.

Something small like a nudge of 5-6%? sure.

you play a crazy build ... no playable ... good guys eat you...

That's not me? Perfectly playable. Also, you claim that good players would eat someone, but if you are at in the same game as them - it usually means you are of equal skill level. The fault then would have nothing to do with the specialization, the fault is completely the players.

@Riddle.2714 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Riddle.2714 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:I think P/P should be in-between Rifle Standing and Rifle Kneeling. Standing -> P/P -> Kneeling. That gives you a reason to still use Pistols. If you make Rifle overall superior in every way compared to P/P it becomes an outdated weapon combo that'll rarely be used.

Weaponset should have its own merits, is all I'm saying.

Main reason using Pistol is the mobility. Also Rifle standing skills are weak compared to pistols..

Rifle-standing has more mobility than P/P though, and I know rifle-standing is weak, it's supposed to make up for that by kneeling, that's just how rifle is designed. Problem is standing isn't worth using because it lacks damage, and kneeling isn't worth doing as it's too risky (PvE). Something needs to be done to make the latter worth the risk.

Agree with you here. Kneeling is risky and unrewarding. Immobile while dps is just slightly 'higher' than mobile is just bad.

@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

I'm also not keen on the 10% damage increase across the board. The DE Rifle wrecks people in PvP pretty hard despite the current state. And most of the time, the reasonings players have for why DE sucks outside of damage, are just what ifs that could honestly go either way.

Increasing the rifle's damage by 10% is likely going to cause people to scream for nerfs when more players figure out how to play DE for themselves, and Thief will get another god kitten nerf it does not need.

Something small like a nudge of 5-6%? sure.

Oor just increase DJ's damage modifier? Hey, It's supposed to be our trump card right? Just my thought :)

That I wouldn't mind. 15% per stack is pretty damn massive. But I've got no problems with it being higher.

[eldrjth.7384]

I think the initiative cost of 3rb has to be reduced rather than damage increased, since damage is ok but sustain is horrible. It fires quicker than unload but uses much more initiative/dmg it deals. Giving rifle some kind of sustained dps would be the greatest improvement to the weapon set. This would make it usable in PvE which is better than trying to balance it around PvP and it end up as only somewhat effective cause nobody likes getting sniped.

Regarding marks, I think if someone LoS a marked target it shouldnt put it on cooldown. This is way too harsh. I prefer it if you simply have to wait for LoS before it can be cast. So basically there is no punishment for unsuccessfully marking the target, but then why should there be anyway? Maybe there COULD be some kind of mechanic where if a marked target breaks LoS then hes not marked for the duration that LoS is broken, meaning buff uptime is lost. But, matters little anyway when you need LoS to attack someone.

I also think longbow range is too much. If one of the weapon set should have greater range it definitely should be sniper since he has to be immobile to get that benefit.

I think bring up the mobility of the deadeye and dont bother emphasising the prone component of it, which is whats making it hard to balance, at the same time make the benefits of kneeling not so great. So kneeling could be nigh instant cast, same with unkneeling, cost 0 initiative, but no-longer stealth's you or gives you 20% more crit chance instead it can boost damage by some amount deemed "balanced". Also kneeling should be a profession skill rather than taking a rifle skill slot which could be used to make death judgement available when standing.

[Riddle.2714]

@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

I'm also not keen on the 10% damage increase across the board. The DE Rifle wrecks people in PvP pretty hard despite the current state. And most of the time, the reasonings players have for why DE sucks outside of damage, are just what ifs that could honestly go either way.

Increasing the rifle's damage by 10% is likely going to cause people to scream for nerfs when more players figure out how to play DE for themselves, and Thief will get another god kitten nerf it does not need.

Something small like a nudge of 5-6%? sure.

Oor just increase DJ's damage modifier? Hey, It's supposed to be our trump card right? Just my thought :)

That I wouldn't mind. 15% per stack is pretty kitten massive. But I've got no problems with it being higher.

PvE-wise -- It's hard to reach maximum damage possible, since all planets must be aligned to pop those big numbers. 25 mights, 7 malice, kneeling mode, invuln stacks, crit chance(very rarely, but it hurts so much when it happens :( ). I thought if they can't tune up the requirements, at least make DJ MUCH more rewarding once pulled off.

By increasing damage modifier, it shouldn't hurt PvP as much as other ways. Since it's easy to dodge, miss, etc,etc and if--someone got hit by a full-malice DJ, he should be dead in the first place.

[TwiceDead.1963]

@Ellisande.5218 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:I think P/P should be in-between Rifle Standing and Rifle Kneeling. Standing -> P/P -> Kneeling. That gives you a reason to still use Pistols. If you make Rifle overall superior in every way compared to P/P it becomes an outdated weapon combo that'll rarely be used.

Weaponsets should have their own merits, is all I'm saying.

It is fine for Rifle to obsolete P/P for Deadeyes because using a rifle IS THE FREAKING POINT OF GOING DEADEYE.

No it ain't. I explained why. You are being ridiculous.

Besides, by your logic that a weapon is what makes an entire elite specialization and anything outside it is pointless (which is a ludicrous claim, btw) , people running Druid would be running with staff exclusively. Try any other Elite and try the same question, are the players only running the elite weapon?

Obviously, this is not the case... Ho-Hum, I wonder why!(I really don't, this is sarcasm).

[Elyxia.2943]

@ Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497

The opponents in the video play very badly, which represents the thief better than he is.You can play against such enemies almost every build, however nonsensical it may be, as a god play, but does not say about the balance.The high damage figures come by the assassin`s signet, which is also 0 defensive, which should be already noticed and played itself in the meta not, probably because of the non-existent defensive and if one considers, one might think that the damage at least from the Rifle is too low and lame, the gun also bites with the shortbow and without lack of mobility, a devil's cycle.

[SCVwar.3784]

Standing rifle shot skills (1 2 3) don't make your thief face the target behind unlike other professions' rifle skills. Only standing rifle kneel (5th skill) turns the thief to face current target. Need that in the rifle fix as well. The way thief rifle works is too clunky right now.

[Maugetarr.6823]

Yeah, I'm spamming my suggestions a bit, but I think rifle is almost a really good weapon, just in need of some minor tweaks. The ability to give some of the skills piercing and rolling Snipers Cover into base rifle while making breaking the kneel more user friendly would be helpful.

In the hopes of a dev checking our feedback, here it is again:

R1: Fine as is (maybe reduce aftercast)R2: Fine as isR3: lower initiatve cost to 3R4: lower initiative cost to 4 (and fix buggy pathing)R5: Make total cast time (precast, cast, aftercast) 0.25 seconds. Leave at 1 initiative. Remove the count from it.

KR1: Fine as is (maybe reduce aftercast)KR2: Fine as isKR3: Lower initiative cost to 3KR4: Fine as isKR5: Remove. Dodge rolling, jumping, stowing weapon, switching weapon, and moving should break kneel (as well as getting cc'd still). Replace with Snipers Cover with a 0.5 second total cast time at 3 initiative. Keep the count.

SR1: Make it stun for 1 second, but keep all other aspects (velocity, cast time other effects) the same.

Deadeyes gaze: fine as isRevealed malice: fine as isIron sight: Reduce incoming damage by 10% while kneelingOne in the chamber: Additionally reduces CD on cantrips by 20%

Renewing gaze: fine as isSilent scope: kneeling give +20% crit chance, kneeling shots pierce up to 2 targets (up to 3 hit total)Unforgiving: Fine as isPeripheral vision: fine as is

Perfectionist: Fine as isMaleficent seven: fine as isBe quick or be killed: Stunning or knocking down a target gives you 4 seconds of quickness, icd 5-10 seconds. Gain 200 power and 150 ferocity while you have quickness.Fire for effect: Hitting your target grants allies around your target 8 seconds of might (360), icd 1 second. Attacks deal an extra 0.5% damage per stack of vulnerability.

Malicious restoration: reduce cd to 25 secondsBinding shadow: fine as isMercy:reduce cd to 25 secondsShadow flare: have it leave a dark field for the duration.Shadow gust: fine as is

I agree with a lot of the sentiment that standing rifle could be slightly worse than P/P and kneeling rifle could be slightly better than P/P, both by measurable amounts maybe the in terms of something like:

Standing =~93% of P/P DPSKneeling=~107% of P/P DPS

This damage shouldn't be attached to 3RB or Double Tap as those should fill more of a utility role of might building, and like OP mentioned, spamming 3RB is a horrible way to play DE. I mean kneeling autos are something like a 1.64 multiplier at 0.75s cast time and 3RB is 1.95 at 1.0s cast time, meaning just reducing the initiative for DB and 3RB would go a long way to clearly defining the role of autos versus 3RB. I want to mention I don't think pre and aftercasts are included in the cast times of these skills, so buffing the autos could be as simple as reducing aftercast time.

[Sol VIII.6812]

Maybe it is a problem just for me, but I see the main weakness of Rifle-Deadeye in the use of projectiles, which can be blocked and reflected. This kinda breaks the fantasy of the perfectly lined up snipe.

I don't know if it is possible, but making attacks penetrate blocks and undeflectable, if the shot is made while kneeling and shooting at the marked target might be a good solution. Currently I switch to S/P to equal this out, but it really breaks the feeling of playing a sniper.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

@Sol VIII.6812 said:Maybe it is a problem just for me, but I see the main weakness of Rifle-Deadeye in the use of projectiles, which can be blocked and reflected. This kinda breaks the fantasy of the perfectly lined up snipe.

I don't know if it is possible, but making attacks penetrate blocks and undeflectable, if the shot is made while kneeling and shooting at the marked target might be a good solution. Currently I switch to S/P to equal this out, but it really breaks the feeling of playing a sniper.

I wish they would implement that so the block/reflect heavy meta would be rattled a little bit, but all the melee people would cry afoul since a ranged weapon actually hurt them. They would loose their all so important melee only meta status.

[Kuulpb.5412]

I would prefer a war rifle buff :D ( I comment this too many times, I know, but seriously, I feel warrior rifle that has existed longer should get a buff so it's a stronger weapon than warrior longbow, before thief rifle gets buffed) For example, here is how it compares

Thief rifle will always apply vuln every auto attack, 2x this kneeling, War rifle does not and has less base damage,Thief rifle 2 peirces and cripples/immobs depending on kneeling, War rifle 2 cripples + applies vuln, does not pierce,.thief rifle 3 shoots 2/3 bullets EXTREMELY quickly and generates might, War rifle 3 shoots 5 ( i think) bullets, that pierces.thief rifle 4 either shadowsteps+poisons or deals a large chunk of damage, War rifle 4 is an evade backwards (can fall off ledges) and immobilises the targetthief rifle 5 swaps between 1200 range and 1500 range with traited 20% crit chance.

thief ambush skill converts 2 boons(this is effectively a better dagger F1 burst), War burst skill is a 1 second cast time not spammable shot that pierces.

Both do have their upsides and downsides such as thief rifle can apply conditions more often and generate might, but I feel that Buffing thief rifle damage, BEFORE they buff warrior rifle damage OR range would be imho a bad idea,( I would be fine with 1500 range on war rifle with the damage kept the same, maybe the burst skill buffed to 1800) since longbow projectiles have arcs and CAN hit at 1500 range, does more damage overall etc, while thieves get a 1500 range constant vuln applying + 20% crit chance shot, that when stealthed converts boons

Edit 2: Regarding longbow on Ranger - It's just good at 1500 range, I feel it should not have 1500 range 10% faster attack speed, 20% recharge AND pierce, but what do I know, I'm not a soulbeast with 2500 power 250% crit dmg

[Zacchary.6183]

@Kuulpb.5412 said:I would prefer a war rifle buff :D ( I comment this too many times, I know, but seriously, I feel warrior rifle that has existed longer should get a buff so it's a stronger weapon than warrior longbow, before thief rifle gets buffed)

I mean, with warrior rifle it COULD use slightly shorter CDs.