Is there anything to do with the permastealth thief

[Sobx.1758]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:Its not just the backstab but the rifle condi variant is just so annoying.Invise >Mark > Binding Shadow > Spotter's Shot > Invise (rinse repeat)And that there is such skillful gameplay.

Something being annoying isn't a good reason to nerf it. Just saying

Those playing it will defend it. Just saying (WvW perspective).

most certainly will

--its us vs them--

Its the the community who want healthy competition vs Thief players who believes it doesn't apply to them

Burny u claim in a favorite class post that ur favs are necro and mirage. Wheres all ur scourge is toxic designed for wvw and promotes mindless spam or condi mirage is toxic to gw2 posts? Did I miss them?For spouting off about toxicity it's funny ur two fav classes have two of the most known toxic specs historically but u fail to spout of about them during ur constant delete thief's posts lol

hey, its us vs them

Its the community who wants healthy competition vs mindlessly spamming scourge/mirage players who believe it doesn't apply to them.kek

[Psycoprophet.8107]

A very high percentage of nerf x class is driven by bias and annoyance or dislike for the class far more than whether x class is actual op or not. Look at the amount of nerf x class post there are where u can not only tell the posters don't play the class they want nerfed but also have very little understanding of how the class functions. There's also always very little talk about what or how to change the class or build to keep it viable as because of lack of knowledge on how the class actually functions they provide little to no real valuable feedback past delete the build or the few proposed changes end up still leaving the class or build severely nerfed basically deleting the build. This is why the new competitive designers for pvp balance need play the builds themselves as well as take notice of the builds performance on average in higher tier play to assess its viability not how much it annoys players as that's a rogue's specialty lol. Player feedback is valuable when u can pick out the feedback among the bias post that are a result of just not liking the class archetype. If the new team can do that and stay true to the vision they have for the classes this game may head in the right way for once.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:A very high percentage of nerf x class is driven by bias and annoyance or dislike for the class far more than whether x class is actual op or not. Look at the amount of nerf x class post there are where u can not only tell the posters don't play the class they want nerfed but also have very little understanding of how the class functions. There's also always very little talk about what or how to change the class or build to keep it viable as because of lack of knowledge on how the class actually functions they provide little to no real valuable feedback past delete the build or the few proposed changes end up still leaving the class or build severely nerfed basically deleting the build. This is why the new competitive designers for pvp balance need play the builds themselves as well as take notice of the builds performance on average in higher tier play to assess its viability not how much it annoys players as that's a rogue's specialty lol. Player feedback is valuable when u can pick out the feedback among the bias post that are a result of just not liking the class archetype. If the new team can do that and stay true to the vision they have for the classes this game may head in the right way for once.

There are 3 variant of condi DE i have played in WvW and I am not even a thief main.Main hand RifleMain hand Pistol DaggerMain hand Pistol onlyThe recent changes to ramp up poison in stealth and stealth on heal skill whats made this more op.Days of stealth trapper is gone and replaced with this or the more popular sword version.How many condi clears do you think everyone runs? Opponent will eventually run out of clears and heals.

One of the problem i can see when i play those 3 builds is with Shadow arts trait line:Concealing Restoration: Gain stealth when you use a healing skill. <- Why is even a stealth here?Leeching Venoms: Venom skills siphon life from struck foes. Gain stacks of Spider Venom while stealthed. Siphoning can only occur once per strike. <- nerf was only in pveRending Shade: Steal boons from enemies you strike with stealth attacks. Striking a boonless foe with a stealth attack inflicts fear on nearby foes. <- Yes gimme ur boons.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:A very high percentage of nerf x class is driven by bias and annoyance or dislike for the class far more than whether x class is actual op or not. Look at the amount of nerf x class post there are where u can not only tell the posters don't play the class they want nerfed but also have very little understanding of how the class functions. There's also always very little talk about what or how to change the class or build to keep it viable as because of lack of knowledge on how the class actually functions they provide little to no real valuable feedback past delete the build or the few proposed changes end up still leaving the class or build severely nerfed basically deleting the build. This is why the new competitive designers for pvp balance need play the builds themselves as well as take notice of the builds performance on average in higher tier play to assess its viability not how much it annoys players as that's a rogue's specialty lol. Player feedback is valuable when u can pick out the feedback among the bias post that are a result of just not liking the class archetype. If the new team can do that and stay true to the vision they have for the classes this game may head in the right way for once.

There are 3 variant of condi DE i have played in WvW and I am not even a thief main.Main hand RifleMain hand Pistol DaggerMain hand Pistol onlyThe recent changes to ramp up poison in stealth and stealth on heal skill whats made this more op.Days of stealth trapper is gone and replaced with this or the more popular sword version.How many condi clears do you think everyone runs? Opponent will eventually run out of clears and heals.

One of the problem i can see when i play those 3 builds is with Shadow arts trait line:Concealing Restoration: Gain stealth when you use a healing skill. <- Why is even a stealth here?Leeching Venoms: Venom skills siphon life from struck foes. Gain stacks of Spider Venom while stealthed. Siphoning can only occur once per strike. <- nerf was only in pveRending Shade: Steal boons from enemies you strike with stealth attacks. Striking a boonless foe with a stealth attack inflicts fear on nearby foes. <- Yes gimme ur boons.

I dont really have a problem fighting DE as a thief player of many yrs but with that said I dislike the DE playstyle so have not played it enough to give any viable feedback on whether its OP or not. I just kno from my experience their usually easy picking once caught.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:A very high percentage of nerf x class is driven by bias and annoyance or dislike for the class far more than whether x class is actual op or not. Look at the amount of nerf x class post there are where u can not only tell the posters don't play the class they want nerfed but also have very little understanding of how the class functions. There's also always very little talk about what or how to change the class or build to keep it viable as because of lack of knowledge on how the class actually functions they provide little to no real valuable feedback past delete the build or the few proposed changes end up still leaving the class or build severely nerfed basically deleting the build. This is why the new competitive designers for pvp balance need play the builds themselves as well as take notice of the builds performance on average in higher tier play to assess its viability not how much it annoys players as that's a rogue's specialty lol. Player feedback is valuable when u can pick out the feedback among the bias post that are a result of just not liking the class archetype. If the new team can do that and stay true to the vision they have for the classes this game may head in the right way for once.

There are 3 variant of condi DE i have played in WvW and I am not even a thief main.Main hand RifleMain hand Pistol DaggerMain hand Pistol onlyThe recent changes to ramp up poison in stealth and stealth on heal skill whats made this more op.Days of stealth trapper is gone and replaced with this or the more popular sword version.How many condi clears do you think everyone runs? Opponent will eventually run out of clears and heals.

One of the problem i can see when i play those 3 builds is with Shadow arts trait line:Concealing Restoration: Gain stealth when you use a healing skill. <- Why is even a stealth here?Leeching Venoms: Venom skills siphon life from struck foes. Gain stacks of Spider Venom while stealthed. Siphoning can only occur once per strike. <- nerf was only in pveRending Shade: Steal boons from enemies you strike with stealth attacks. Striking a boonless foe with a stealth attack inflicts fear on nearby foes. <- Yes gimme ur boons.

I dont really have a problem fighting DE as a thief player of many yrs but with that said I dislike the DE playstyle so have not played it enough to give any viable feedback on whether its OP or not. I just kno from my experience their usually easy picking once caught.

And 4 momths ago , you where saying that condition thief , is a trololol spec that wont be used in serious pvp , and casuals should stay quiet .1 month ago you where trying to advertise other games , saying that you will leave for archage v2 .And now you dare to spoute phrases like :'' This is why the new competitive designers for pvp balance need play the builds themselves as well as take notice of the builds performance on average in higher tier play to assess its viability not how much it annoys players as that's a rogue's specialty lol.''

Who do you think support canserous specs , without having a clue about them , then bail out (leaving to others games) calling out the company for creating powercreep , and then he simply crawl back like nothing happened ?What should i do to ppl like them ?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:A very high percentage of nerf x class is driven by bias and annoyance or dislike for the class far more than whether x class is actual op or not. Look at the amount of nerf x class post there are where u can not only tell the posters don't play the class they want nerfed but also have very little understanding of how the class functions. There's also always very little talk about what or how to change the class or build to keep it viable as because of lack of knowledge on how the class actually functions they provide little to no real valuable feedback past delete the build or the few proposed changes end up still leaving the class or build severely nerfed basically deleting the build. This is why the new competitive designers for pvp balance need play the builds themselves as well as take notice of the builds performance on average in higher tier play to assess its viability not how much it annoys players as that's a rogue's specialty lol. Player feedback is valuable when u can pick out the feedback among the bias post that are a result of just not liking the class archetype. If the new team can do that and stay true to the vision they have for the classes this game may head in the right way for once.

There are 3 variant of condi DE i have played in WvW and I am not even a thief main.Main hand RifleMain hand Pistol DaggerMain hand Pistol onlyThe recent changes to ramp up poison in stealth and stealth on heal skill whats made this more op.Days of stealth trapper is gone and replaced with this or the more popular sword version.How many condi clears do you think everyone runs? Opponent will eventually run out of clears and heals.

One of the problem i can see when i play those 3 builds is with Shadow arts trait line:Concealing Restoration: Gain stealth when you use a healing skill. <- Why is even a stealth here?Leeching Venoms: Venom skills siphon life from struck foes. Gain stacks of Spider Venom while stealthed. Siphoning can only occur once per strike. <- nerf was only in pveRending Shade: Steal boons from enemies you strike with stealth attacks. Striking a boonless foe with a stealth attack inflicts fear on nearby foes. <- Yes gimme ur boons.

I dont really have a problem fighting DE as a thief player of many yrs but with that said I dislike the DE playstyle so have not played it enough to give any viable feedback on whether its OP or not. I just kno from my experience their usually easy picking once caught.

And 4 momths ago , you where saying that condition thief , is a trololol spec that wont be used in serious pvp , and casuals should stay quiet .1 month ago you where trying to advertise other games , saying that you will leave for archage v2 .And now you dare to spoute phrases like :'' This is why the new competitive designers for pvp balance need play the builds themselves as well as take notice of the builds performance on average in higher tier play to assess its viability not how much it annoys players as that's a rogue's specialty lol.''

Who do you think support canserous specs , without having a clue about them , then bail out (leaving to others games) calling out the company for creating powercreep , and then he simply crawl back like nothing happened ?

Condi thief is the epitome of a troll meme build. Yeah its effective but still a troll build non the less. I'm lv 55 in archeage and have logged into gw2 twice both in last two days so what does that have to do with anything? Lol I'm not getting ur point? Its honestly like a bunch of newbies came in with no mmo experience lol ya'll cry about thief's unfair tactics as if that's not how their sopose to play out. U guys are lucky here as in eso I get perma stealth without jumping thru any smoke fields etc just a push of a button or in AAU my dark runner gets 40 secs invisibility lol if thief was changed in the direction u guys spout off about it wouldn't even be a rogue like archetype anymore.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:A very high percentage of nerf x class is driven by bias and annoyance or dislike for the class far more than whether x class is actual op or not. Look at the amount of nerf x class post there are where u can not only tell the posters don't play the class they want nerfed but also have very little understanding of how the class functions. There's also always very little talk about what or how to change the class or build to keep it viable as because of lack of knowledge on how the class actually functions they provide little to no real valuable feedback past delete the build or the few proposed changes end up still leaving the class or build severely nerfed basically deleting the build. This is why the new competitive designers for pvp balance need play the builds themselves as well as take notice of the builds performance on average in higher tier play to assess its viability not how much it annoys players as that's a rogue's specialty lol. Player feedback is valuable when u can pick out the feedback among the bias post that are a result of just not liking the class archetype. If the new team can do that and stay true to the vision they have for the classes this game may head in the right way for once.

There are 3 variant of condi DE i have played in WvW and I am not even a thief main.Main hand RifleMain hand Pistol DaggerMain hand Pistol onlyThe recent changes to ramp up poison in stealth and stealth on heal skill whats made this more op.Days of stealth trapper is gone and replaced with this or the more popular sword version.How many condi clears do you think everyone runs? Opponent will eventually run out of clears and heals.

One of the problem i can see when i play those 3 builds is with Shadow arts trait line:Concealing Restoration: Gain stealth when you use a healing skill. <- Why is even a stealth here?Leeching Venoms: Venom skills siphon life from struck foes. Gain stacks of Spider Venom while stealthed. Siphoning can only occur once per strike. <- nerf was only in pveRending Shade: Steal boons from enemies you strike with stealth attacks. Striking a boonless foe with a stealth attack inflicts fear on nearby foes. <- Yes gimme ur boons.

I dont really have a problem fighting DE as a thief player of many yrs but with that said I dislike the DE playstyle so have not played it enough to give any viable feedback on whether its OP or not. I just kno from my experience their usually easy picking once caught.

And 4 momths ago , you where saying that condition thief , is a trololol spec that wont be used in serious pvp , and casuals should stay quiet .1 month ago you where trying to advertise other games , saying that you will leave for archage v2 .And now you dare to spoute phrases like :'' This is why the new competitive designers for pvp balance need play the builds themselves as well as take notice of the builds performance on average in higher tier play to assess its viability not how much it annoys players as that's a rogue's specialty lol.''

Who do you think support canserous specs , without having a clue about them , then bail out (leaving to others games) calling out the company for creating powercreep , and then he simply crawl back like nothing happened ?

Condi thief is the epitome of a troll meme build. Yeah its effective but still a troll build non the less. I'm lv 55 in archeage and have logged into gw2 twice both in last two days so what does that have to do with anything? Lol I'm not getting ur point?

Just an idea , you can use your ideas about the thief archtype to archeage .Until the company should choose their actions , i dont like any1 say such foolishness :... condi its a troll build ... but i hate the company for giving trololo build to other classes...

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:A very high percentage of nerf x class is driven by bias and annoyance or dislike for the class far more than whether x class is actual op or not. Look at the amount of nerf x class post there are where u can not only tell the posters don't play the class they want nerfed but also have very little understanding of how the class functions. There's also always very little talk about what or how to change the class or build to keep it viable as because of lack of knowledge on how the class actually functions they provide little to no real valuable feedback past delete the build or the few proposed changes end up still leaving the class or build severely nerfed basically deleting the build. This is why the new competitive designers for pvp balance need play the builds themselves as well as take notice of the builds performance on average in higher tier play to assess its viability not how much it annoys players as that's a rogue's specialty lol. Player feedback is valuable when u can pick out the feedback among the bias post that are a result of just not liking the class archetype. If the new team can do that and stay true to the vision they have for the classes this game may head in the right way for once.

There are 3 variant of condi DE i have played in WvW and I am not even a thief main.Main hand RifleMain hand Pistol DaggerMain hand Pistol onlyThe recent changes to ramp up poison in stealth and stealth on heal skill whats made this more op.Days of stealth trapper is gone and replaced with this or the more popular sword version.How many condi clears do you think everyone runs? Opponent will eventually run out of clears and heals.

One of the problem i can see when i play those 3 builds is with Shadow arts trait line:Concealing Restoration: Gain stealth when you use a healing skill. <- Why is even a stealth here?Leeching Venoms: Venom skills siphon life from struck foes. Gain stacks of Spider Venom while stealthed. Siphoning can only occur once per strike. <- nerf was only in pveRending Shade: Steal boons from enemies you strike with stealth attacks. Striking a boonless foe with a stealth attack inflicts fear on nearby foes. <- Yes gimme ur boons.

I dont really have a problem fighting DE as a thief player of many yrs but with that said I dislike the DE playstyle so have not played it enough to give any viable feedback on whether its OP or not. I just kno from my experience their usually easy picking once caught.

And 4 momths ago , you where saying that condition thief , is a trololol spec that wont be used in serious pvp , and casuals should stay quiet .1 month ago you where trying to advertise other games , saying that you will leave for archage v2 .And now you dare to spoute phrases like :'' This is why the new competitive designers for pvp balance need play the builds themselves as well as take notice of the builds performance on average in higher tier play to assess its viability not how much it annoys players as that's a rogue's specialty lol.''

Who do you think support canserous specs , without having a clue about them , then bail out (leaving to others games) calling out the company for creating powercreep , and then he simply crawl back like nothing happened ?

Condi thief is the epitome of a troll meme build. Yeah its effective but still a troll build non the less. I'm lv 55 in archeage and have logged into gw2 twice both in last two days so what does that have to do with anything? Lol I'm not getting ur point?

Just an idea , you can use your ideas about the thief archtype to archeage .Until the company should choose their actions , i dont like any1 say such foolishness :... condi its a troll build ... but i hate the company for giving trololo build to other classes...

Read above, u guys have it lucky with how FAIR thief is in this game lol

[Kageseigi.2150]

@"Sleepwalker.1398" said:One of the problem i can see when i play those 3 builds is with Shadow arts trait line:

Shadow Arts is a defensive line that, while effective in WvW, is extremely handicapped in PvP. And by choosing Shadow Arts, a Thief is giving up something that either boosts lethality (Deadly Arts/Critical Strikes), mobility and evasion (Acrobatics), or utility, Steal-buffing, and initiative (Trickery). What really scares me is a Power or Hybrid Deadeye with Deadly Arts and Critical Strikes.

Concealing Restoration: Gain stealth when you use a healing skill. <- Why is even a stealth here?

Being a defensive line, Stealth fits. Notice that this is a core trait, not specifically for Deadeyes. The Deadeye just has synergy with it. Many non-Deadeyes need the Stealth access in order to actually get any benefit from the rest of the Shadow Arts line.

Rending Shade: Steal boons from enemies you strike with stealth attacks. Striking a boonless foe with a stealth attack inflicts fear on nearby foes. <- Yes gimme ur boons.

Any and all boon-removal for a Thief is a good thing. It's the main reason why Sword/Dagger became meta. The Thief needs more of it. Steal should actually steal a boon or two by default. A Thief should actually be able to steal/remove ("cleanse") boons from enemies as much as it can cleanse conditions from itself. Let it actually live up to its name... Thief.

Unfortunately, Elites were not designed to be balanced with Core builds. Instead, Elites took what made Core builds viable, and turned the Elites into super-builds. Shadow Arts may look way overpowered if used on a Deadeye in WvW, but it's rather lackluster on Core Thieves, and nearly useless in PvP. However, just by its nature, WvW can never be balanced, but PvP can be (not that it is or will be). I just hope the Thief as a whole doesn't get nerfed because of Deadeyes or Daredevils... or Power builds get nerfed because of Condition builds.

Either way, there are so many things that Reveal players in WvW nowadays (even passively), it's ridiculous. At this rate, underwater builds may become more effective soon. If mounts weren't enough of an issue SIGH

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:A very high percentage of nerf x class is driven by bias and annoyance or dislike for the class far more than whether x class is actual op or not. Look at the amount of nerf x class post there are where u can not only tell the posters don't play the class they want nerfed but also have very little understanding of how the class functions. There's also always very little talk about what or how to change the class or build to keep it viable as because of lack of knowledge on how the class actually functions they provide little to no real valuable feedback past delete the build or the few proposed changes end up still leaving the class or build severely nerfed basically deleting the build. This is why the new competitive designers for pvp balance need play the builds themselves as well as take notice of the builds performance on average in higher tier play to assess its viability not how much it annoys players as that's a rogue's specialty lol. Player feedback is valuable when u can pick out the feedback among the bias post that are a result of just not liking the class archetype. If the new team can do that and stay true to the vision they have for the classes this game may head in the right way for once.

There are 3 variant of condi DE i have played in WvW and I am not even a thief main.Main hand RifleMain hand Pistol DaggerMain hand Pistol onlyThe recent changes to ramp up poison in stealth and stealth on heal skill whats made this more op.Days of stealth trapper is gone and replaced with this or the more popular sword version.

How many condi clears do you think everyone runs? Opponent will eventually run out of clears and heals.

One of the problem i can see when i play those 3 builds is with Shadow arts trait line:Concealing Restoration: Gain stealth when you use a healing skill. <- Why is even a stealth here?Leeching Venoms: Venom skills siphon life from struck foes. Gain stacks of Spider Venom while stealthed. Siphoning can only occur once per strike. <- nerf was only in pveRending Shade: Steal boons from enemies you strike with stealth attacks. Striking a boonless foe with a stealth attack inflicts fear on nearby foes. <- Yes gimme ur boons.

I'd love to know who's actually playing condi DE in WvW, I run into them so sparingly it's hard to say it's a problem. I personally don't find condi deadeye fun, I build craft occasionally on hybrid to see if I can get it to work better but honestly it doesn't feel as good for me to play as power so I drop it fairly quick. It's also relatively easy to kill/wall if the enemy has more than one cleanse and brings target painters. There's far more core S/D and daredevil staff thieves roaming in my experience. Anyways, to your comment.

I bolded the part that is the problem. There's supposed to be more condis than cleanses on any viable condi build, so you then have to use your active defenses (blocks, dodges, resistance etc) to avoid the application or resist the damage, making the result of the matchup more reliant on who rotates skills better. If there's more clears than condis, all you get is rock paper scissors type balance which pretty much everyone agrees is boring. The issue is conflated by thief being a stealth class, but it is still possible to avoid the burst especially considering a) target painters and b) all three of the specs you listed are projectile based.

This is what I mean by players wanting nerfs to things they personally find annoying. Are there counters to condi DE? Yes. Does it hard counter common builds? Only those that run with absolutely no cleanse. Condi daredevil is more problematic as it introduces LoS and unblockable boon rip, but that's outside of the scope of the discussion of permastealth.

[Justine.6351]

Came across a deadeye on my hammer rev, he just ran to the closest tower rofl...

[Seis.4736]

How much is a stealth trap anyways? Jeez

[Shao.7236]

The best way to deal with perma stealth is to abuse the fact that while they evade, if you time your skill for CC correctly before the evade ends while they're still visible, you will hit them in stealth and thus kinda breaking their potential to constantly keep it going.

If you have anything that's AoE after that CC, you know that they are there still so use a bunch of that, if they ShadowStep away, you will know by the white Aoe they leave behind also.

[pureskullz.7536]

Huh, guess this is where the "I was running under 15k hp and got one shot by a glass thief" thread. On a real note, Thief isn't unstoppable it's far from it. The main reason you guys can't kill thieves without two people is that it's a class that requires a higher skill cap. Resulting in higher-skilled players with better game knowledge flocking to it. And they destroy other players in one vs one or two scenarios sometimes more depending on the skill and luck. In all honesty, do yourself a favor and roam on a SA thief(or acro) it is considerably harder than it looks. Many classes now build up toughness to counter the glass backstab builds and it forces a thief to only focus squishy targets. Not only this but roaming as a thief you will find your outnumbered 8/10 times generally you will be hunted plus if you keep returning to the same location you died at you are more than likely going to die again. Also, CCs will murder a thief most average thief builds have 2-3 Stunbreaks and are generally slow to react except for a small minority. But the result of players rolling the toughness meta comes a new meta of thief where the standard is run Condi and Acro with Daredevil and a few SA thieves. The Condi is a problem but I'm not the one calling the balancing shots I just play the game. Anyways, Enjoy and good luck roaming/ganking. (This thread was meant mostly for WvW However, some parts do go over to PvP)

[Sindrener.1592]

Since its all so broken, mind rerolling thief and show us