Besides new Maps, what new WvW content do you all want?

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

New content?

easy: BAN ALL THIEVES.

[MrSannx.3654]

Content to add on WvW : Give to Guild Wars 2 players a good reason to play World Vs World ( specialy for their own server............... ) ( Actually there is 0 reason to play World Vs World )

[Mokk.2397]

I would like to see rewards that are offered in Wvw exclusively and take more than just a weekend to acquire, Legendary weapons and really cool skins, that you really have to dedicate time and effort in WvW to get . Real WvW gloating rights.

[Svarty.8019]

I saw a twitch stream where someone asked for rewards, but weren't particularly specific about them... I wonder...

How would these rewards work? Would they be cosmetic-only? Would they reward the congregation of great numbers of player on a single server (AKA stacking)?

Why would I want to play on an underdog side if the rewards for victory are so much greater? Would there be a way for perennial underachievers to gain the reward through persistence and resilience as opposed to twitchy fingers?

[Mokk.2397]

@Svarty.8019 said:I saw a twitch stream where someone asked for rewards, but weren't particularly specific about them... I wonder...

How would these rewards work? Would they be cosmetic-only? Would they reward the congregation of great numbers of player on a single server (AKA stacking)?

Why would I want to play on an underdog side if the rewards for victory are so much greater? Would there be a way for perennial underachievers to gain the reward through persistence and resilience as opposed to twitchy fingers?

That's assuming that the population imbalances remained the same but if special items exclusive to WvW were offered then maybe that would bring more people in WvW .Fewer underdogs. I know it's not perfect ,nothing is .But as it stands right now theirs really no real great reason to play WvW aside from the camaraderie.

[reddie.5861]

easiest and fastest fix is open 1 megaworld server and run core gw2 wvw so whenever u join u get auto assigned to a "faction" for a week till friday and u get randomly assigned to a faction again.

[Svarty.8019]

@Mokk.2397 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:I saw a twitch stream where someone asked for rewards, but weren't particularly specific about them... I wonder...

How would these rewards work? Would they be cosmetic-only? Would they reward the congregation of great numbers of player on a single server (AKA stacking)?

Why would I want to play on an underdog side if the rewards for victory are so much greater? Would there be a way for perennial underachievers to gain the reward through persistence and resilience as opposed to twitchy fingers?

That's assuming that the population imbalances remained the same but if special items exclusive to WvW were offered then maybe that would bring more people in WvW .Fewer underdogs. I know it's not perfect ,nothing is .But as it stands right now theirs really no real great reason to play WvW aside from the camaraderie.

I get how the Alliances / World Restructuring system was sold to us, but I think there will be obvious winners and losers when that system gets into place due to the alliance population caps being so similar to those of guilds. Huge single guilds will dominate servers, with a few floaters filling the gaps. That much seems obvious, as long as that problematic cap is in place.

That's why I'm concerned that rewards be achievable by losers. Who wants to just get punished for losing every week? You just wouldn't play.

[Iozeph.5617]

@Svarty.8019 said:I get how the Alliances / World Restructuring system was sold to us, but I think there will be obvious winners and losers when that system gets into place due to the alliance population caps being so similar to those of guilds. Huge single guilds will dominate servers, with a few floaters filling the gaps. That much seems obvious, as long as that problematic cap is in place.

That's why I'm concerned that rewards be achievable by losers. Who wants to just get punished for losing every week? You just wouldn't play.

It's 2019 and we're still playing a game that promised us the moon but has only gone aggressively downhill since launch while money grubbing us more with every passing year. Perhaps -just perhaps- it's time to consider that we're all losers here.

[Svarty.8019]

I want handicapping. Cascading steamrolls with no fallback are brutal. No wonder people just log off.

FIRST - I would like to see a METRIC developed to measure who is LEADING, and who is LAST.SECOND - It should then be possible to give things to/ take things from whoever is in those positions at any time.

Additionally, I'd like to see Edge of the Mist Supply Drop changed. At the moment it is awarded to the winning side in EotM which is USUALLY green.

[Ysmir.4986]

I want a PvE debuff for players on servers that do poorly in WvW and no transfers.

[Stephen.6312]

@knite.1542 said:I am more concerned about changes to current maps than introducing new maps.

The desert feels way too big IMO. All of that space in the center can go.Alpine maps are buggy. I walk down stairs and take damage near the south island ruins. My attacks regularly get obstructed in open fields. I wish they would remove the passive mobs.You can use the mount to jump into several objectives. (The mount should be removed from WvW IMO)Veteran scouts still have invisible smoke fields.Dolyaks are regularly desynced.The balance is a joke.

Instead of making new content, I would like for existing content to be polished. (And that applies outside of WvW too)

You've hit the nail on the head.

[Solitude.2097]

a) Allow 1 lvl characters to buy 80 lvl Gear from the TP and equip it + unloced 5 utilities (they dont have all Utilities unlocked+Talents)b) If they belong in a guild , they can buy the Books-Recipies to unlock Talents+Spells . If the leave the Guild , they have to be 60 to participate in WvWvW.c) They are not allowed to ''Pull any levers - or interact with everything until they are be 60 lvl.d) They cannot pick up more than 20 supplies in 30 min (avoid trolling) . If 60 lvl , or in a Guild , remove the restrisctions .e)Movement speed from the Ncp or a Donkey , that getting attacked doesnt put them in combat and they can teleport to Base (avoid bad expiriance/ganking)f) Transform into Rain or Mist and mess/slow down with the enemy zerg . (They can learn the map's sourounding that way)g) Copy the forms of Wildlife and hide , and the next ''charge attack'' destroys 3 random equipment of the enemy .''Sniff attack'' allows you to see icon of the enemy Commander. With 3 gear destroyed he will force his zerg to run back in base and repair it.h) If you are 60 , you loose E+F+Gh) They choosed to lvl only to 55 (monks) , thats oki) Allow each player to ban each other , for science .j) Allow ''solo players'' to have a chance to become slowly moving Demigods or anoying Tornatoes ...or any force of nature and invade Domminant Servers ... from other servers.k) By capturing more and more Stractures , each server will errect stones that will float in the air , that will create a ''path'' to the sky .5 ppl can steal a ''stone'' from the server who has the most (orb escord mechanic) .Your stoned path is near your Capital Castle , but the enemy can use it also .If one team (the domminant ofc) complete the goal , a floating pirate ghost ship will show up (or island) .Every1 is enlarged + the ship does a 180 degree (or keep spinning) , so every1 can see what is happening on the ship from the groud .. then we have gvg ... or the domminant of this server is facing another dominant from another server .The ship have 10 super chest , your commander must choose 6 and the other 4 are dropped to the ground for the lesser servers .l) Build treb and shoot down the moving ship , or like dragonball Z choose 1 of the 10 spots in that arena from afar > raise up your hands > channel your healing energy in that 600 yard area> 1/hps per person >and then treb them again: )

[Celsith.2753]

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:Just remove edge of the mists as a tab, and replace one of our two existing Alpine with it. Then we will have one alpine, one edge and one Desert which would bring edge of the mists and all its assets to use within WvW and would clean up the WvW tab. This would save them, time, effort and would saitiate the player-base for something new because SO FEW of the existing player base probably ever touched Edge of the mists. The players who used to play on it are few and far between, and we remember it was fun but for years its been abandoned. Just bring it into the fold... It has everything to be a good map. (Especially since we have gliding, so falling to your death won't be as prevalent unless CC'd because you can just glide and waypoint.

The mount would also make traversing it faster, but there were good fights on that map and tons of fun mechanics... its an good example of where WvW should of continued to go.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/88775/world-vs-world-reborn#latest

^ Other than that, all of this.

Replacing Alpine with EOTM would just mean there is 2 borderland maps I refuse to go to instead of one. EOTM has all the same issues as desert in my opinion, environmental interference, automated rubbish interfering with player fights and the added bonus of stupid holes everywhere so you can fall off the map. No thanks.

[SoV.5139]

Half as many people per map.Twice as many maps.

If there is an issue with headcount too low then...

Half as many people per map.1.5x as many maps.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Celsith.2753 said:

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:Just remove edge of the mists as a tab, and replace one of our two existing Alpine with it. Then we will have one alpine, one edge and one Desert which would bring edge of the mists and all its assets to use within WvW and would clean up the WvW tab. This would save them, time, effort and would saitiate the player-base for something new because SO FEW of the existing player base probably ever touched Edge of the mists. The players who used to play on it are few and far between, and we remember it was fun but for years its been abandoned. Just bring it into the fold... It has everything to be a good map. (Especially since we have gliding, so falling to your death won't be as prevalent unless CC'd because you can just glide and waypoint.

The mount would also make traversing it faster, but there were good fights on that map and tons of fun mechanics... its an good example of where WvW should of continued to go.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/88775/world-vs-world-reborn#latest

^ Other than that, all of this.

Replacing Alpine with EOTM would just mean there is 2 borderland maps I refuse to go to instead of one. EOTM has all the same issues as desert in my opinion, environmental interference, automated rubbish interfering with player fights and the added bonus of stupid holes everywhere so you can fall off the map. No thanks.

So? You're one person. If you want to play battle royal then go play that game, they exist but wanting WvW to be that rather than RvR would kill the mode for me and many others. You can stay on alpine but I want to have edge of the mists mean something again because it is one of the cooler maps; You may not like it and I Feel like this is a L2P issue in general as you don't like Desert or Edge because it requires more thought about what you do. It demands some tactics and thought into how to approach the objective, alpine does not. Alpine is litterally just run from one end to the other and smash; Which is why desert exists. Desert is the embodiment of all the feedback veterans gave when a-net asked for feedback. They took the majority of what was expressed to be a desired part of the map, and the huge whiny majority just pooed on it without even trying to learn. So to me this sounds like you're one of the many who are part of the problem, who don't want change and enable them to neglect the game mode and Im sure it will continue to be neglected due to this sentiment from the player base.

Which i fine~ Other RvR games are coming, and that will be where the people looking for that game-type will go. And WvW will bleed more and more players leading to that inevitable conclusion, might "Seem" fine now due to the hosting and how servers are paired together. But I remember distinctly when we didn't need that to make it appear that the game mode has a healthy pop~ I also remember when it was always busy on every map. Edge was popular before they removed the ability to get pips or have anything WvW related given to you as a reward, tons of people played on it. It only isn't the case because A-net murdered it.

[Celsith.2753]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

So? You're one person. If you want to play battle royal then go play that game, they exist but wanting WvW to be that rather than RvR would kill the mode for me and many others. You can stay on alpine but I want to have edge of the mists mean something again because it is one of the cooler maps; You may not like it and I Feel like this is a L2P issue in general as you don't like Desert or Edge because it requires more thought about what you do. It demands some tactics and thought into how to approach the objective, alpine does not. Alpine is litterally just run from one end to the other and smash; Which is why desert exists. Desert is the embodiment of all the feedback veterans gave when a-net asked for feedback. They took the majority of what was expressed to be a desired part of the map, and the huge whiny majority just pooed on it without even trying to learn. So to me this sounds like you're one of the many who are part of the problem, who don't want change and enable them to neglect the game mode and Im sure it will continue to be neglected due to this sentiment from the player base.

Which i fine~ Other RvR games are coming, and that will be where the people looking for that game-type will go. And WvW will bleed more and more players leading to that inevitable conclusion, might "Seem" fine now due to the hosting and how servers are paired together. But I remember distinctly when we didn't need that to make it appear that the game mode has a healthy pop~ I also remember when it was always busy on every map. Edge was popular before they removed the ability to get pips or have anything WvW related given to you as a reward, tons of people played on it. It only isn't the case because A-net murdered it.

So many assumptions here. L2P? lol k.I don't like either map because the pve aspects of them overwhelm any player engagement to the point that skill is meaningless. I don't want to win because the other side is getting hit by turrets that do thousands of damage, or they have another disadvantage like perma chill. Trying to play on EoTM in a small group is a nightmare of perma chill and overwhelming turrets, just one of the reasons why it was popular for massive blobs instead of smaller groups. It's also the reason why most solo roamers there inhabit the green area. Yes the enemy has a stat advantage but it's a lot less intrusive and easier to deal with then the other 2 areas.

As for the map themselves. Poorly designed and encourage player avoidance and ktrain. If I were inclined to resort to petty insults instead of asking for discussion, I may suggest that 'ktrain' is why you used to enjoy EoTM?

Ironically, without the environmental rubbish, I have less qualms about EoTM than I do the Desert map. The holes in the ground are annoying. The tight areas that you can punt or fear people off are gimmicks that do make me laugh when I'm the one punting someone. But not every class has access to stability, not every class has access to punts or fears. It's another situation where the map wins instead of the player. Honourable mention to overpowered NPCs with CC to stop a fight in its tracks and punish anyone not using super skilled player only tanky gear. Other than that it has some side ways to get places if you want to try to get ahead of groups and the underground area is in places kind of accessible from above without a jump to death.

Desert takes the cake as far as player avoidance and poor design. It's perfectly possible to see another group, know the shortcuts like haystacks or taking the shrines for the leaps and STILL not be able to catch up before they've got where they're going. Too many cliffs that are fall to death height and not enough paths adjoining and connecting.Height that is survivable to jump from is good in an rvr map. Add some back ways to get up there and its even better. Then height opens up for the map for tactical play - getting above or below your opponent TO ENGAGE WITH THEM and not just use the height as 'Ner ner you cant touch this', guessing their destination and going ahead to lay ambush.It's a beautiful map. It's just poor design for anything other than pve. Entire areas where some classes can't use their defensive or offensive tools? Ridiculous. The millions of glowy orbs floating in the air? Probably the reason so many people complain their lag increases on that map.

I don't want pve overriding player skill. Maybe that is a L2P issue as you say. Maybe being reliant on the environment to win for you is a L2P issue, I don't know.

I do know that looking at the amount of activity on the desert map compared to alpine and ebg that I am not the only one that hates that map and avoids it. I do know that when we are red, team chat is non stop whining from the three people that enjoy that map that no one ever goes to help.

I don't know how you got 'battle royal' from what I said. I had to go google it to be honest. I don't see how thinking a map shouldn't encourage avoidance necessarily means you think everyone should fight to the death? A lower height difference and more connecting paths would enable players to think and plan to engage, but it would allow the people wanting to just ktrain to try to avoid if they wished too. The difference between an insurmountable height and a surmountable one is simply that the player had to think and strategize instead of knowing the terrain will block enemies for them. L2P.....

Desert is not the ' embodiment of all the feedback veterans gave when a-net asked for feedback' by the way. I was one of those people giving feedback, if you mean the one time they asked for feedback before designing that map, which was when EoTM was released. The feedback I and many other actual wvw players gave was that environmental effects were too strong, etc.

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Edge was popular before they removed the ability to get pips or have anything WvW related given to you as a reward, tons of people played on it. It only isn't the case because A-net murdered it.

You aren't even talking about wvw players. You are talking about pve players that used it to gain rewards without fear of being forced to have the entire rvr experience which does involve people trying to stop them and kill them. The horror. You want to force a map that was popular for karma training and levelling up characters onto people that eschewed going there for anything other than a brief murderfest when wvw was completely quiet.

I am one person and my opinion doesn't matter. Just like the other thousands of players who left the game for good when we had desert map as all 3 borderlands for a while, didn't matter. Adding EoTM would, in my humble and worthless opinion, be another exodus.

Ktrainers would probably be happy with that though ;)

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Celsith.2753 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

So? You're one person. If you want to play battle royal then go play that game, they exist but wanting WvW to be that rather than RvR would kill the mode for me and many others. You can stay on alpine but I want to have edge of the mists mean something again because it is one of the cooler maps; You may not like it and I Feel like this is a L2P issue in general as you don't like Desert or Edge because it requires more thought about what you do. It demands some tactics and thought into how to approach the objective, alpine does not. Alpine is litterally just run from one end to the other and smash; Which is why desert exists. Desert is the embodiment of all the feedback veterans gave when a-net asked for feedback. They took the majority of what was expressed to be a desired part of the map, and the huge whiny majority just pooed on it without even trying to learn. So to me this sounds like you're one of the many who are part of the problem, who don't want change and enable them to neglect the game mode and Im sure it will continue to be neglected due to this sentiment from the player base.

Which i fine~ Other RvR games are coming, and that will be where the people looking for that game-type will go. And WvW will bleed more and more players leading to that inevitable conclusion, might "Seem" fine now due to the hosting and how servers are paired together. But I remember distinctly when we didn't need that to make it appear that the game mode has a healthy pop~ I also remember when it was always busy on every map. Edge was popular before they removed the ability to get pips or have anything WvW related given to you as a reward, tons of people played on it. It only isn't the case because A-net murdered it.

So many assumptions here. L2P? lol k.I don't like either map because the pve aspects of them overwhelm any player engagement to the point that skill is meaningless. I don't want to win because the other side is getting hit by turrets that do thousands of damage, or they have another disadvantage like perma chill. Trying to play on EoTM in a small group is a nightmare of perma chill and overwhelming turrets, just one of the reasons why it was popular for massive blobs instead of smaller groups. It's also the reason why most solo roamers there inhabit the green area. Yes the enemy has a stat advantage but it's a lot less intrusive and easier to deal with then the other 2 areas.

As for the map themselves. Poorly designed and encourage player avoidance and ktrain. If I were inclined to resort to petty insults instead of asking for discussion, I may suggest that 'ktrain' is why you used to enjoy EoTM?

Ironically, without the environmental rubbish, I have less qualms about EoTM than I do the Desert map. The holes in the ground are annoying. The tight areas that you can punt or fear people off are gimmicks that do make me laugh when I'm the one punting someone. But not every class has access to stability, not every class has access to punts or fears. It's another situation where the map wins instead of the player. Honourable mention to overpowered NPCs with CC to stop a fight in its tracks and punish anyone not using super skilled player only tanky gear. Other than that it has some side ways to get places if you want to try to get ahead of groups and the underground area is in places kind of accessible from above without a jump to death.

Desert takes the cake as far as player avoidance and poor design. It's perfectly possible to see another group, know the shortcuts like haystacks or taking the shrines for the leaps and STILL not be able to catch up before they've got where they're going. Too many cliffs that are fall to death height and not enough paths adjoining and connecting.Height that is survivable to jump from is good in an rvr map. Add some back ways to get up there and its even better. Then height opens up for the map for tactical play - getting above or below your opponent TO ENGAGE WITH THEM and not just use the height as 'Ner ner you cant touch this', guessing their destination and going ahead to lay ambush.It's a beautiful map. It's just poor design for anything other than pve. Entire areas where some classes can't use their defensive or offensive tools? Ridiculous. The millions of glowy orbs floating in the air? Probably the reason so many people complain their lag increases on that map.

I don't want pve overriding player skill. Maybe that is a L2P issue as you say. Maybe being reliant on the environment to win for you is a L2P issue, I don't know.

I do know that looking at the amount of activity on the desert map compared to alpine and ebg that I am not the only one that hates that map and avoids it. I do know that when we are red, team chat is non stop whining from the three people that enjoy that map that no one ever goes to help.

I don't know how you got 'battle royal' from what I said. I had to go google it to be honest. I don't see how thinking a map shouldn't encourage avoidance necessarily means you think everyone should fight to the death? A lower height difference and more connecting paths would enable players to think and plan to engage, but it would allow the people wanting to just ktrain to try to avoid if they wished too. The difference between an insurmountable height and a surmountable one is simply that the player had to think and strategize instead of knowing the terrain will block enemies for them. L2P.....

Desert is not the ' embodiment of all the feedback veterans gave when a-net asked for feedback' by the way. I was one of those people giving feedback, if you mean the one time they asked for feedback before designing that map, which was when EoTM was released. The feedback I and many other actual wvw players gave was that environmental effects were too strong, etc.

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Edge was popular before they removed the ability to get pips or have anything WvW related given to you as a reward, tons of people played on it. It only isn't the case because A-net murdered it.

You aren't even talking about wvw players. You are talking about pve players that used it to gain rewards without fear of being forced to have the entire rvr experience which does involve people trying to stop them and kill them. The horror. You want to force a map that was popular for karma training and levelling up characters onto people that eschewed going there for anything other than a brief murderfest when wvw was completely quiet.

I am one person and my opinion doesn't matter. Just like the other thousands of players who left the game for good when we had desert map as all 3 borderlands for a while, didn't matter. Adding EoTM would, in my humble and worthless opinion, be another exodus.

Ktrainers would probably be happy with that though ;)

As someone who 100% loves RvR the whole point of doing it is partly for the objectives, holding them and maintaining them SHOULD give you an advantage over someone who has not. The environment should be something that can be taken advantage of (This is the case in real life wars, so I don't see why it can't be here?) there needs to be more than just my build vs your build considering how this game works. The more things we can add to the experience of the fight and the journey from point A to point B is what enriches the experience. So from what I gather you don't want objectives, you don't want the environment to play a role in who wins or looses and that is pretty much what battle-royal i. Its run in and smash people against other people until everyone dies; Honestly A-net should just make a battle royal game at this point and cater to that audience and separate them from this game.

WvW IS RVR. Its the answer to Dark age of camelot and WAR online, this is why it functions as it is but it didn't get the polish or attention it needed to maintain relevance or even play-ability. The fact so many people don't know this tells me you don't know what the mode was meant to be, you want less PVE but PvE is what makes the mode what it is, without it then what separates it from pvp? Nothing. Granted the PvE portion should be more engaging with more benefits for players who take an objective, it should come down to more than one meta to rule them all. Im so sick to death of people asking for them to essentially remove the elements from RvR out of it which is what made RvR such an engaging mode to begin with. Note that entire games have been built AROUND and for this game type and guild wars 2 is just trying to be everything, without actually committing to any one thing.

[Celsith.2753]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

As someone who 100% loves RvR the whole point of doing it is partly for the objectives, holding them and maintaining them SHOULD give you an advantage over someone who has not. The environment should be something that can be taken advantage of (This is the case in real life wars, so I don't see why it can't be here?) there needs to be more than just my build vs your build considering how this game works. The more things we can add to the experience of the fight and the journey from point A to point B is what enriches the experience. So from what I gather you don't want objectives, you don't want the environment to play a role in who wins or looses and that is pretty much what battle-royal i. Its run in and smash people against other people until everyone dies; Honestly A-net should just make a battle royal game at this point and cater to that audience and separate them from this game.

WvW IS RVR. Its the answer to Dark age of camelot and WAR online, this is why it functions as it is but it didn't get the polish or attention it needed to maintain relevance or even play-ability. The fact so many people don't know this tells me you don't know what the mode was meant to be, you want less PVE but PvE is what makes the mode what it is, without it then what separates it from pvp? Nothing. Granted the PvE portion should be more engaging with more benefits for players who take an objective, it should come down to more than one meta to rule them all. Im so sick to death of people asking for them to essentially remove the elements from RvR out of it which is what made RvR such an engaging mode to begin with. Note that entire games have been built AROUND and for this game type and guild wars 2 is just trying to be everything, without actually committing to any one thing.

I absolutely agree with you that objectives should be a stronghold and that holding and maintaining them is the central feature of RvR. I've done far more scouting and defending than I've done attacking and some of my fondest memories are of holding off a map queue with 10 random pugs for hours on end - back before shield gens and siege damage creep and tactics. I'm one of those few people that smirks when players say it was impossible to kill catapults far back in the dredge cave in ebg with Wildcreek cannon. I spent hours on homebl every weekend weakening a t3 Hills for a zerg to take later. I miss bannering the keep lord because even though it seemed like a pain in the behind at the time, it actually prolonged the fight portion of a keep take instead of hours of siege only to have the fight last 5 minutes - or not happen at all because the enemy bail. I find straight up open field staring at each then charging like red coats to be boring, repetitive and the outcome to be predictable. The thing is, before HoT introduced all the nonsense we have now, objectives and the tools we had were just that - a tool and not the deciding factor in a fight by themselves. There needs to be a balance. When the environment or the game playing for us wins the fight, that is not balance. We are in a situation now where the game plays so much for us that the small group fights I used to love around towers are practically none existent. It's rare now I see equal numbers battling it out over a keep or tower, it's bring overwhelming numbers or don't bother for the most part.

It's funny you mention WaR because the siege there was so limited. I never felt like the terrain was winning or losing the fight for me in that game and certainly don't remember ever having the terrain pop up some auto defense that killed the enemy for me. Was a while ago though so maybe rose tinted glasses.

I think my favourite map to play in ever was Morheim, in Aion. Technically a pve map but with rifts so pvp could occur. It had so many ways to traverse, it was easy to be near the enemy and scout. Most areas had paths slightly elevated so with care you could avoid or engage as you choose, yet you were in range and visible if the enemy was paying attention. To me it was an excellent example of the player being able to use terrain to their advantage and out maneuver whilst still leaving opportunity for their opponent to counter play if they were also paying attention.

Edit: When I talk about player skill in an RvR mode I'm not just talking about 1v1 or blob v blob fighting. One of the beauties of the mode is that players who may not excel in that area for various reasons can still be very useful to their team. I know several gumpy old farts - which probably includes me at this point - that are far from the best in a fight, but they at least won't rallybot because their positioning is good. They excel in other areas though, like knowing how to counter siege. And I mean meaningful placement by the way, not just cramming as many ac's into an objective as you can. Or watching a map and knowing where the enemy is likely to be next, getting there before them to supply trap, cow and call out numbers.

[StrawHat.2639]

Just move Mounts to eotm and desert bl (biggest map) and I'd probably start playing regularly again until then am sticking to a very casual weekend warrior (1-2hr tops a week).Besides playing for fun with my havoc grp...there's no real reason to take anything seriously anymore in WvW...some WvWers can relate to putting a few more hours back in the old days for your server and server cronies...I miss server identity.

Anyways why another what you want post, we can't all get what we want...I never wanted mounts so did most in my guild...but a lot on this forum like it be it old or new WvWers...the golden age was just before HoT.

Provisioner, Pips system with legendaries and Squads have been the good upgrades over the course of the expansions that I can think of at short notice.

Am a defeatist at this point don't mind me.

Cheers

[StrawHat.2639]

@Celsith.2753 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

I absolutely agree with you that objectives should be a stronghold and that holding and maintaining them is the central feature of RvR. I've done far more scouting and defending than I've done attacking and some of my fondest memories are of holding off a map queue with 10 random pugs for hours on end - back before shield gens and siege damage creep and tactics. I'm one of those few people that smirks when players say it was impossible to kill catapults far back in the dredge cave in ebg with Wildcreek cannon. I spent hours on homebl every weekend weakening a t3 Hills for a zerg to take later. I miss bannering the keep lord because even though it seemed like a pain in the behind at the time, it actually prolonged the fight portion of a keep take instead of hours of siege only to have the fight last 5 minutes - or not happen at all because the enemy bail. I find straight up open field staring at each then charging like red coats to be boring, repetitive and the outcome to be predictable. The thing is, before HoT introduced all the nonsense we have now, objectives and the tools we had were just that - a tool and not the deciding factor in a fight by themselves. There needs to be a balance. When the environment or the game playing for us wins the fight, that is not balance. We are in a situation now where the game plays so much for us that the small group fights I used to love around towers are practically none existent. It's rare now I see equal numbers battling it out over a keep or tower, it's bring overwhelming numbers or don't bother for the most part.

Edit: When I talk about player skill in an RvR mode I'm not just talking about 1v1 or blob v blob fighting.

One of the beauties of the mode is that players who may not excel in that area for various reasons can still be very useful to their team.

I know several gumpy old farts - which probably includes me at this point -

that are far from the best in a fight, but they at least won't rallybot because their positioning is good. They excel in other areas though, like knowing how to counter siege. And I mean meaningful placement by the way, not just cramming as many ac's into an objective as you can. Or watching a map and knowing where the enemy is likely to be next, getting there before them to supply trap, cow and call out numbers.

Having fought yous so many times, I can only respect you more for all this. I find it funny since I don't consider myself also anything great as a fighter just a group support attacker tanker why I prefer havoking to solo.

After posting, I just happen to read the above post yours, and nostalgia to hear another old time rival feel the same way about the golden age of WvW so far.

Cheers

[LetoII.3782]

The idea that EoTM is the thinking man's map took the cake

[StrawHat.2639]

@LetoII.3782 said:The idea that EoTM is the thinking man's map took the cake=)It used to be fun to havok from time to time there when there used to be 3 blobs to navigate around.I preferred starting commanding there then in WvW when I first wanted to try.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Celsith.2753 said:

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:

As someone who 100% loves RvR the whole point of doing it is partly for the objectives, holding them and maintaining them SHOULD give you an advantage over someone who has not. The environment should be something that can be taken advantage of (This is the case in real life wars, so I don't see why it can't be here?) there needs to be more than just my build vs your build considering how this game works. The more things we can add to the experience of the fight and the journey from point A to point B is what enriches the experience. So from what I gather you don't want objectives, you don't want the environment to play a role in who wins or looses and that is pretty much what battle-royal i. Its run in and smash people against other people until everyone dies; Honestly A-net should just make a battle royal game at this point and cater to that audience and separate them from this game.

WvW IS RVR. Its the answer to Dark age of camelot and WAR online, this is why it functions as it is but it didn't get the polish or attention it needed to maintain relevance or even play-ability. The fact so many people don't know this tells me you don't know what the mode was meant to be, you want less PVE but PvE is what makes the mode what it is, without it then what separates it from pvp? Nothing. Granted the PvE portion should be more engaging with more benefits for players who take an objective, it should come down to more than one meta to rule them all. Im so sick to death of people asking for them to essentially remove the elements from RvR out of it which is what made RvR such an engaging mode to begin with. Note that entire games have been built AROUND and for this game type and guild wars 2 is just trying to be everything, without actually committing to any one thing.

I absolutely agree with you that objectives should be a stronghold and that holding and maintaining them is the central feature of RvR. I've done far more scouting and defending than I've done attacking and some of my fondest memories are of holding off a map queue with 10 random pugs for hours on end - back before shield gens and siege damage creep and tactics. I'm one of those few people that smirks when players say it was impossible to kill catapults far back in the dredge cave in ebg with Wildcreek cannon. I spent hours on homebl every weekend weakening a t3 Hills for a zerg to take later. I miss bannering the keep lord because even though it seemed like a pain in the behind at the time, it actually prolonged the fight portion of a keep take instead of hours of siege only to have the fight last 5 minutes - or not happen at all because the enemy bail. I find straight up open field staring at each then charging like red coats to be boring, repetitive and the outcome to be predictable. The thing is, before HoT introduced all the nonsense we have now, objectives and the tools we had were just that - a tool and not the deciding factor in a fight by themselves. There needs to be a balance. When the environment or the game playing for us wins the fight, that is not balance. We are in a situation now where the game plays so much for us that the small group fights I used to love around towers are practically none existent. It's rare now I see equal numbers battling it out over a keep or tower, it's bring overwhelming numbers or don't bother for the most part.

It's funny you mention WaR because the siege there was so limited. I never felt like the terrain was winning or losing the fight for me in that game and certainly don't remember ever having the terrain pop up some auto defense that killed the enemy for me. Was a while ago though so maybe rose tinted glasses.

I think my favourite map to play in ever was Morheim, in Aion. Technically a pve map but with rifts so pvp could occur. It had so many ways to traverse, it was easy to be near the enemy and scout. Most areas had paths slightly elevated so with care you could avoid or engage as you choose, yet you were in range and visible if the enemy was paying attention. To me it was an excellent example of the player being able to use terrain to their advantage and out maneuver whilst still leaving opportunity for their opponent to counter play if they were also paying attention.

Edit: When I talk about player skill in an RvR mode I'm not just talking about 1v1 or blob v blob fighting. One of the beauties of the mode is that players who may not excel in that area for various reasons can still be very useful to their team. I know several gumpy old farts - which probably includes me at this point - that are far from the best in a fight, but they at least won't rallybot because their positioning is good. They excel in other areas though, like knowing how to counter siege. And I mean meaningful placement by the way, not just cramming as many ac's into an objective as you can. Or watching a map and knowing where the enemy is likely to be next, getting there before them to supply trap, cow and call out numbers.

While everything you say is true and I do tend to lean and agree with it we have to also take into account A-net can't play their own game. They are really bad in these modes so Im assuming alot of the handi-caps that are super hand-holdy are there because THEY want them to be. I don't believe they will do anything for this game mode, and while part of what you said is correct I do remember ducking behind cover In WaR to get away from BW's and their dots. Just to pot up and bum rush around the building to get them from behind due to having charge.

I suppose the way they have it now with how you describe it is a self-destructive form of what would be considered acceptable, but desert map "Has" potential as does edge of the mists if they actually took the time to seek that potential. Hell even alpine has untapped potential and EB, all of these maps are just lazily done and they have so little toward a good game mode and MUCH more toward just "Zerg for reward". I don't know how to fix it and im confident A-net wouldn't fix it even if we gave them the answer, I have little faith in anything to do with this game... I stay because its my home. For better.... or for worse...

[Celsith.2753]

@StrawHat.2639 said:Having fought yous so many times, I can only respect you more for all this. I find it funny since I don't consider myself also anything great as a fighter just a group support attacker tanker why I prefer havoking to solo.

After posting, I just happen to read the above post yours, and nostalgia to hear another old time rival feel the same way about the golden age of WvW so far.

Cheers

/Salute enemy or friend all have contributed to what was fun times :)

[Celsith.2753]

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:

While everything you say is true and I do tend to lean and agree with it we have to also take into account A-net can't play their own game. They are really bad in these modes so Im assuming alot of the handi-caps that are super hand-holdy are there because THEY want them to be. I don't believe they will do anything for this game mode, and while part of what you said is correct I do remember ducking behind cover In WaR to get away from BW's and their dots. Just to pot up and bum rush around the building to get them from behind due to having charge.

I suppose the way they have it now with how you describe it is a self-destructive form of what would be considered acceptable, but desert map "Has" potential as does edge of the mists if they actually took the time to seek that potential. Hell even alpine has untapped potential and EB, all of these maps are just lazily done and they have so little toward a good game mode and MUCH more toward just "Zerg for reward". I don't know how to fix it and im confident A-net wouldn't fix it even if we gave them the answer, I have little faith in anything to do with this game... I stay because its my home. For better.... or for worse...

I'd go further and say that as the changes have happened, the older wvw players have gradually vanished and the newer players actually prefer things to hold their hand for them. If it's what the majority of players today want then the remnants with a different mindset will just continue to bleed out. And from Anets point of view I suppose that's the correct way as it will draw more of the current pve players in. I can't see them doing the drastic changes that would probably be necessary to bring the old players back.