Map completion locked behind story, (meta) events (or their daily rewards)

[Syrus.2174]

I'm not sure how other people feel about this, but I think it would be quite appreciable if map completion was never locked behind story, meta events or their daily rewards.

The particular map I found this to be an issue is Thunderhead Peaks, where I am missing one PoI. I did the story on a different character and have no will to do it on the character who is now missing that last PoI. I don't find that fun, and not having fun is not the point of playing a game.Sadly, I already did the meta events on yet another character earlier, so I can't even get access to that last PoI through the daily meta event reward.

Now, this leaves me quite annoyed. But maybe it is just me, who wishes to finish things they start in one go, instead of always having to wait. You may say, it is only tomorrow, but I question, why is this a thing? Why is this necessary? What difference does it make to Anet, that forcing people to either do the story or the meta to complete the map is seen as positive and gameplay improving?I can maybe understand having to do the meta, but then have it at least let you get access not only once per day. And if it is just solely locked behind the completion of a meta, without the daily part, it still is flawed by how it becomes less likely every passing day that people will be there to complete the meta event, especially if it is a more difficult one.

Map completion is usually a chill way to just spend some time in the game, complete events on the side, farm some materials, help some people. But then it leaves you frustrated and annoyed when you get blocked like this for no particular reason. You may say, "but now you'll be on the map again tomorrow!" - sure, but I'll be there annoyed, not because I want to be there, but because I have to delay what I was doing. I might have been there tomorrow with yet another character, or might have gone there, if it was worthwhile being there and fun events where going on there.

I enjoy playing the story when I feel like it, but I really hate being forced to play it, it sucks the fun out of it and the game for me, it makes me want to skip all dialogue (which by the way is not possible) and rush through the content - and that just makes me question why I even do this to myself, why I even play the game, if I'm not enjoying it

Please, just make map completion possible solely through exploration, without locked PoIs and the likes.

[Khisanth.2948]

You don't actually have to do the meta since the key(or the pieces) are tradeable so you can just buy that on the TP. It is probably done to make it look like there is more content since it will take longer to finish.

On the bright side ... at least it doesn't require an event that sometimes breaks which can make completion impossible for weeks. In this regard requiring story is less bad but this is like asking someone if they prefer to get stabbed or to get shot where most people would prefer not to get injured at all.

[Voltekka.2375]

Does Dragon Stand full map comp require a successful meta? Cause that is a bit frustrating for me, sometimes...

[Syrus.2174]

@Khisanth.2948 said:You don't actually have to do the meta since the key(or the pieces) are tradeable so you can just buy that on the TP. It is probably done to make it look like there is more content since it will take longer to finish.

On the bright side ... at least it doesn't require an event that sometimes breaks which can make completion impossible for weeks. In this regard requiring story is less bad but this is like asking someone if they prefer to get stabbed or to get shot where most people would prefer not to get injured at all.

You can still only get into the area via the key once per day, sadly.I do agree that events breaking is another problem when it comes to such things.

I mean, it's a nice thing to progress through areas via events, at the same time I feel like there should still be a way to complete a map without being required to wait and hope for a meta to succeed.

[Gop.8713]

This has never really bothered me, but OP isn't the first to complain about it. From my perspective all that's being asked is that the player play the map in order to complete it and the only time this would become an issue is if someone is trying to farm map completions, which I wouldn't consider a legitimate concern . . .

But different players are going to have different pet peeves. Ppl complain alternately about legendaries requiring map completions or wvw participation and a lot of players were irked by the skyscale timegates to give a couple of other examples of things that don't bother me. Meanwhile, I get frustrated when the ability to progress is taken out of the player's hands entirely, and many ppl don't seem concerned about that either . . .

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Voltekka.2375 said:Does Dragon Stand full map comp require a successful meta? Cause that is a bit frustrating for me, sometimes...

You’re only required to access the final boss but you don’t need to beat it in order to complete the map.

[Syrus.2174]

@"Gop.8713" said:This has never really bothered me, but OP isn't the first to complain about it. From my perspective all that's being asked is that the player play the map in order to complete it and the only time this would become an issue is if someone is trying to farm map completions, which I wouldn't consider a legitimate concern . . .

Farming map completions still takes quite some time. I don't see how it is fine for some maps and not fine for others. My reason for completing the map was getting the map currency, I guess some people might call that "farming". Does it take me longer now? Time-wise, yes. But I won't be longer ON the map for the completion, as it would either be time spend in the story or time spend otherwise - waiting for tomorrow.I did play the map, spend time on it to complete the events and explore it, spend time on it doing the meta another time just to find out it doesn't give another key, what else am I supposed to do, what is the intention behind this?

I just feel lately like, on everything I try to do I run into another time gate or annoyance as to why I can't continue doing what I wanted to do.And that is not fun for someone like me, who enjoys to play at their own pace - spending a lot of time at once on something and then doing something completely different, I guess.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Gop.8713 said:This has never really bothered me, but OP isn't the first to complain about it. From my perspective all that's being asked is that the player play the map in order to complete it and the only time this would become an issue is if someone is trying to farm map completions, which I wouldn't consider a legitimate concern . . .

Except in this case someone also decided to throw RNG into the mix. Even if you play the map and get the item you still might not be able to get in if that room isn't one of the rooms required and then there is also a 30 minute interval where it is completely locked.

[Gop.8713]

@Syrus.2174 said:

@Gop.8713 said:This has never really bothered me, but OP isn't the first to complain about it. From my perspective all that's being asked is that the player play the map in order to complete it and the only time this would become an issue is if someone is trying to farm map completions, which I wouldn't consider a legitimate concern . . .

Farming map completions still takes quite some time. I don't see how it is fine for some maps and not fine for others. My reason for completing the map was getting the map currency, I guess some people might call that "farming".

I think pretty much anyone would call that farming lol. But I didn't mean for it to sound like that was a negative thing. Just that it's not something worth changing design over . . .

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Gop.8713 said:This has never really bothered me, but OP isn't the first to complain about it. From my perspective all that's being asked is that the player play the map in order to complete it and the only time this would become an issue is if someone is trying to farm map completions, which I wouldn't consider a legitimate concern . . .

Except in this case someone also decided to throw RNG into the mix. Even if you play the map and get the item you still might not be able to get in if that room isn't one of the rooms required and then there is also a 30 minute interval where it is completely locked.

Perhaps I'm remembering wrong then. It's been a while since I did map completion on that ep and from what I remembered doing the first part of the story gave you everything that wasn't available just from running around. If it truly is locked behind rng then yes, that would be an example of what I meant when I said I object to the ability to progress being taken away from the player. But again, it's worth remembering that lots of ppl think that's fine too . . .

Either way, it's not how I remember the map working . . .

[Syrus.2174]

Well, no luck today, Purple room in Thunderhead Keep was not on the random plate list.Such fun.

[Rasimir.6239]

@Gop.8713 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Gop.8713 said:This has never really bothered me, but OP isn't the first to complain about it. From my perspective all that's being asked is that the player play the map in order to complete it and the only time this would become an issue is if someone is trying to farm map completions, which I wouldn't consider a legitimate concern . . .

Except in this case someone also decided to throw RNG into the mix. Even if you play the map and get the item you still might not be able to get in if that room isn't one of the rooms required and then there is also a 30 minute interval where it is completely locked.

Perhaps I'm remembering wrong then. It's been a while since I did map completion on that ep and from what I remembered doing the first part of the story gave you everything that wasn't available just from running around. If it truly is locked behind rng then yes, that would be an example of what I meant when I said I object to the ability to progress being taken away from the player. But again, it's worth remembering that lots of ppl think that's fine too . . .

Either way, it's not how I remember the map working . . .There are two (three with help of other players) ways to get that poi. Either play the story to the point where you are sent into the dwarven tomb (about half-way through if I remember correctly) or be lucky with the dwarven tomb miniquest that allows you access to three of the five tombs, with the one that guards the poi being one of the five possibilities of which three are chosen randomly each day.

Personally I'm not much bothered with it despite the fact that I currently have two characters that only miss that one poi in the map, and a few more that took their time to get it (most via eventually doing the story). If it's the map currency you are after, then there are several other options to go (daily heart vendors, the Gorrick heart is especially quick and painless to do even if you do it on several alts, opening dwarven chests, buying the daily 5 in Dragonfall etc) that will easily give you a similar amount of currency, and if all else fails, all of those options reset tomorrow.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Or just pay a mesmer to port you into the room or use a teleport to friend stone on someone.

[Dante.1763]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Or just pay a mesmer to port you into the room or use a teleport to friend stone on someone.

That 100% depends on another player leaving a toon in that room, do people even do that? Ive never seen it. Add to that, the Rooms from what i know arent random per day per account it changes each day for everyone and the rooms are the same for everyone that day are they not?

To be honest, i agree with the OP. Locking off map completion behind story instances isnt the way to go. I like to explore the maps before i do the story so while ive never had this problem if it ever was an issue for me i wouldnt enjoy it.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

It doesn't matter if the rooms are random; if a player has a character parked in a spot, then that's where the character will load.

[Dante.1763]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:It doesn't matter if the rooms are random; if a player has a character parked in a spot, then that's where the character will load.

Yes. But they cant teleport another of their characters to that character.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Or just pay a mesmer to port you into the room or use a teleport to friend stone on someone.

That 100% depends on another player leaving a toon in that room, do people even do that? Ive never seen it. Add to that, the Rooms from what i know arent random per day per account it changes each day for everyone and the rooms are the same for everyone that day are they not?

To be honest, i agree with the OP. Locking off map completion behind story instances isnt the way to go. I like to explore the maps before i do the story so while ive never had this problem if it ever was an issue for me i wouldnt enjoy it.

Or hopping onto the map to see if the purple room is one of the options. You can simply get a port rather than buy the keys, do the meta, or do the story.

[Dante.1763]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Or just pay a mesmer to port you into the room or use a teleport to friend stone on someone.

That 100% depends on another player leaving a toon in that room, do people even do that? Ive never seen it. Add to that, the Rooms from what i know arent random per day per account it changes each day for everyone and the rooms are the same for everyone that day are they not?

To be honest, i agree with the OP. Locking off map completion behind story instances isnt the way to go. I like to explore the maps before i do the story so while ive never had this problem if it ever was an issue for me i wouldnt enjoy it.

Or hopping onto the map to see if the purple room is one of the options. You can simply get a port rather than buy the keys, do the meta, or do the story.

And you know that this is a request to not map completion behind RNG and Story right?

Ive never seen people porting those rooms the entire time ive been gathering the items for weapons, but im done "arguing" against non arguments to a suggestion that only has benefits to everyone and hurts no one, dont expect a response after this one. :)

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Or just pay a mesmer to port you into the room or use a teleport to friend stone on someone.

That 100% depends on another player leaving a toon in that room, do people even do that? Ive never seen it. Add to that, the Rooms from what i know arent random per day per account it changes each day for everyone and the rooms are the same for everyone that day are they not?

To be honest, i agree with the OP. Locking off map completion behind story instances isnt the way to go. I like to explore the maps before i do the story so while ive never had this problem if it ever was an issue for me i wouldnt enjoy it.

Or hopping onto the map to see if the purple room is one of the options. You can simply get a port rather than buy the keys, do the meta, or do the story.

And you know that this is a request to not map completion behind RNG and Story right?

Ive never seen people porting those rooms the entire time ive been gathering the items for weapons, but im done "arguing" against non arguments to a suggestion that only has benefits to everyone and hurts no one, dont expect a response after this one. :)

That's why you go to the map, check if the purple room is one of the options, and ask. Pretty much what I've been saying the past couple posts.

[mindcircus.1506]

This complaint is so overblown and tired.Every time I read one of these threads that tries (like this one) to make it into a bigger deal than it actually is, the less sympathetic I become.

[Sobx.1758]

Are you talking about Hammer's Hoard PoI?https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/796914/#Comment_796914

Fixed a bug in which the Hammer's Hoard point of interest could not be activated from outside of the gate.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@"Sobx.1758" said:Are you talking about Hammer's Hoard PoI?https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/796914/#Comment_796914

Fixed a bug in which the Hammer's Hoard point of interest could not be activated from outside of the gate.

I think it's this one: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Consul%27s_Tomb

[Syrus.2174]

@"mindcircus.1506" said:This complaint is so overblown and tired.Every time I read one of these threads that tries (like this one) to make it into a bigger deal than it actually is, the less sympathetic I become.

Well, opinions differ. And just because a complain is not the biggest thing in the world does not mean it need not be voiced. I leave a lot of complains aside because I deem them not big enough, but some things I just find aggrevating enough to voice my opinion on. Especially if it is such unnecessary little things that dampen my fun for no particular reason. There are things I can understand, decision that make sense, in a "play the game more"-kind of sense, stretching out the time spend on a map and such. But in the cases of locking map completion behind story or meta events, the problem arises when a map does become old and inactive - or when you wish to do a map with more than one character. Some people also can't play all the time or during prime time, so they may never get the chance to do a meta event...fringe cases, you may say. But is it really necessary to implement such measures to slow down people completing maps? What is the reason for doing this?

Let's turn it around: would it be a big issue for anyone, if every map was explorable completely without being required to do (meta) events (not hearts, mind you) or story?

Yes, the PoI that lead to this thread is "The Consul's Tomb". I was lucky and found a friendly mesmer after a long time of searching, I assume they were doing the story - really wish other classes had abilities to teleport as well, sometimes, just to repay that generosity and helpfulness every now and then.

[Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.294]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Does Dragon Stand full map comp require a successful meta? Cause that is a bit frustrating for me, sometimes...

You’re only required to access the final boss but you don’t need to beat it in order to complete the map.

Actually, DS has 4 hero points, a vista, and 4 or 5 POI's that are stuck behind the meta - a POI and HP at each of the 3 towers, the vista, an HP, and one or two POI's in the Dragon's Domain.

Don't forget, there used to be a HP in Auric Basin that was only open during the chest run after a successful Octo. :)

The purple room in Thunderhead Peaks is an annoying POI. But so is the Labyrinth in Silverwastes. While it would be nice if you could get those POI's when they are blocked off...it's a bit of meh to me. I just have to go back on that toon at the appropriate time or get someone to port me or tp to friend (for the purple room...DS and silverwastes, not so much).

[Ayrilana.1396]

@"Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946" said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Does Dragon Stand full map comp require a successful meta? Cause that is a bit frustrating for me, sometimes...

You’re only required to access the final boss

but you don’t need to beat it in order to complete the map.

Actually, DS has 4 hero points, a vista, and 4 or 5 POI's that are stuck behind the meta - a POI and HP at each of the 3 towers, the vista, an HP, and one or two POI's in the Dragon's Domain.

Don't forget, there used to be a HP in Auric Basin that was only open during the chest run after a successful Octo. :)

The purple room in Thunderhead Peaks is an annoying POI. But so is the Labyrinth in Silverwastes. While it would be nice if you could get those POI's when they are blocked off...it's a bit of meh to me. I just have to go back on that toon at the appropriate time or get someone to port me or tp to friend (for the purple room...DS and silverwastes, not so much).

Read the bolded above in my post. You can also technically get into the final area with the skyscale but I wasn't counting that.

[Syrus.2174]

While I do think those are annoying, the Purple room PoI is on yet another level of frustrating design. Unlike in the Silverwastes or even Dragon's Stand, the Consul's Tomb can only be reached (without doing the story or the help of a mesmer) by doing two meta events which will give you a key that, once per day, allows you to get a CHANCE at getting into that room. It is not guranteed, you cannot do it multiple times per day or with different characters. It can only ever accessed if you get lucky ... or if you go through the story (or get lucky - once again - and find a mesmer who is currently doing the story and portals you in).

It's both not great, but to me, the latter just goes too far. At least Silverwastes's Labyrinth I can get into whenever the Vinetooth meta is done. Dragon's Stand is harder, true, but even there, if I wanted to go there with multiple characters, nothing is stopping me but its timer running out at some point.