Rampage changes.

[RedShark.9548]

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:Every other Warrior elite skill is trash, so it's pretty much guaranteed warriors will still take rampage inside PvP at least.

With all the CC/damage skills getting nerfed people will probably just use Rampage 4 & 5 to CC and set up for Rampage 3, if not immediately swapping out of rampage for their GS bursts once they've used it to CC someone. Spamming the auto-attack just isn't practical unless you're trying to punish a revive.

Rampage is also pretty good for securing clutch revives and stomps because of the damage reduction and Stability so it'l probably still be used in that way. Much better than Battle Standard at least.

I could be wrong though. With damage going down across the board, there will probably be more bunkers and rampage was never really good VS Bunkers because stability, blocks, and blinds just eat the skill already.

How would rampage be a better choice to simply stomp or rezz a player than banner?

You dont have to stand in cleave at all to cast a banner, you can even start casting and walk fully out of range to drop it. Its also harder to see in the midst of a fight than a stomp or a rezz.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@RedShark.9548 said:How would rampage be a better choice to simply stomp or rezz a player than banner?

You dont have to stand in cleave at all to cast a banner, you can even start casting and walk fully out of range to drop it. Its also harder to see in the midst of a fight than a stomp or a rezz.

I only speak from PvP because that's really all I play. In WvW, that probably isn't practical.

In PvP the 2s cast time and absurdly long CD on the banner(even with the update that shaves time off the CD in mind) you're likely to just get CC spammed and interrupted while casting it. That or your target will usually die before it hits them anyway.

With Rampage you can essentially accomplish the same thing with CC immunity and the -50% damage buff. A revive is probably going to come out quicker with Rampage than full-casting the banner, and the tradeoff for taking another 1.5 seconds to stomp enemies is that you get an elite skill that you can use more often, and in more ways than just the singular and niche way of securing stomps/rezzes.

[RedShark.9548]

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:How would rampage be a better choice to simply stomp or rezz a player than banner?

You dont have to stand in cleave at all to cast a banner, you can even start casting and walk fully out of range to drop it. Its also harder to see in the midst of a fight than a stomp or a rezz.

I only speak from PvP because that's really all I play. In WvW, that probably isn't practical.

In PvP the 2s cast time and absurdly long CD on the banner(even with the update that shaves time off the CD in mind) you're likely to just get CC spammed and interrupted while casting it. That or your target will usually die before it hits them anyway.

With Rampage you can essentially accomplish the same thing with CC immunity and the -50% damage buff. A revive is probably going to come out quicker with Rampage than full-casting the banner, and the tradeoff for taking another 1.5 seconds to stomp enemies is that you get an elite skill that you can use more often, and in more ways than just the singular and niche way of securing stomps/rezzes.

Im not so sure about that, you also have 1sec casttime to use rampage, which you have to add to the stomp/rezz

The dmg mitigation is kinda moot, since you can walk out of the dmg when casting banner + the enemies have to either cleave the down, or attack you, when you rezz with rampage they can easily hit both at the same time. And its no real cc immunity, the stab can still be ripped or corrupted and its 2 stacks of stab every 3 seconds.

Also i doubt that you rezz someone faster than throwing the banner. And ppl rarely cleave as furiously as they do when they see someone rezzing right next to the downed guy. Same goes for stomp.

I agree that it adds more variety to the playstyle, with 5 more weaponskills, but honestly i can make more use of my normal weaponskills than some tickle cc or just to run away with it.

And finally banner gives some buffs to your group afterwards and you can lower its cooldown by picking it right back up.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@RedShark.9548 said:Im not so sure about that, you also have 1sec casttime to use rampage, which you have to add to the stomp/rezz

Yes but there's always the chance someone could go down whilst you're already in Rampage. Battle Standard is also double that cast-time, and if for whatever reason it gets interrupted, then it overall takes way longer.

The dmg mitigation is kinda moot, since you can walk out of the dmg when casting banner + the enemies have to either cleave the down, or attack you, when you rezz with rampage they can easily hit both at the same time. And its no real cc immunity, the stab can still be ripped or corrupted and its 2 stacks of stab every 3 seconds.

Also i doubt that you rezz someone faster than throwing the banner. And ppl rarely cleave as furiously as they do when they see someone rezzing right next to the downed guy. Same goes for stomp.

I mean, you can obviously disagree if you want to. Some people find the other elites useful in PvP, I just didn't see it since the WoE and removal of Sigil of Surging. I'm not trying to make Rampage seem overpowered, and you're right on all these things that counter it IE Booncorruption, blinds, blocks, Stability all pretty much nullify the skill, but that goes for a lot of Warrior elites.

I'm a Warrior main. Played way too many Ranked and Unranked games over several years. I've used all the elites and I can say pretty safely that I never found a use for Battle Standard, and after Rampage was buffed the first time, it already did a better job. Yes, you're going to get cleaved to heck if you try to revive someone in rampage, but the damage reduction really does help a lot of the time, and normal CC won't stop you with the Stab. Likewise if someone is down on your team and the enemy team, and you're in rampage or go into rampage; it's much easier to secure a stomp in rampage than with the banner because of the Stability. Even if you move outside the downed person's range, once the enemy is wise to the fact that you're using banner when they see that 2s cast time going off they usually know enough to push the Warrior and interrupt the skill. A mes could see it just pop Mantra of Distraction or F3 and then you have to restart that 2s cast-time all over again, in which case you've already probably lost that fight.

I agree that it adds more variety to the playstyle, with 5 more weaponskills, but honestly i can make more use of my normal weaponskills than some tickle cc or just to run away with it.

Has it been nerfed yet? If so, I totally feel that. Old rampage did anything but tickle though.Either way, the CC and the disengage element are just two more benefits Rampage has over every other Warrior elite.

And finally banner gives some buffs to your group afterwards and you can lower its cooldown by picking it right back up.

Like I say about the whole picking the Banner back up... It definitely doesn't feel like enough to make it viable. In PvP, banner would be used for the main effect of reviving downed teammates/stomping enemies, but is that really all that worth it for a 120s CD? Picking it up only shaves 60s off the CD, it's still going to take 30s longer to come back than Rampage.Signet of Mercy too for Guardian players; gives half the benefits of Battle Standard while being a utility and having a lower CD.

The actual damage from the banner is beyond negligible, and you need only walk outside it to avoid that effect. That applies to the buffs on Teammates as well. They might get hit by the initial Might/fury/swiftness but in PvP people are constantly moving so the likelyhood of anyone getting any continual benefit from that is pretty low. Not to mention most classes have really good uptime on these boons already, and it's not like they're the most useful. This isn't protection, Quickness, or stability; these are basic boons for an elite skill.

All that being said, if you want to use Battle Standard; more power to you. I think myself and the good majority of Warrior mains left after this update will still use Rampage like I said before in reply to the OP.

[Sobx.1758]

@"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:Either way, the CC and the disengage element are just two more benefits Rampage has over every other Warrior elite.

It's almost as if it does "pretty much everything", which is the reason it's overperforming and why it gets nerfed, right? :D

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@"Sobx.1758" said:It's almost as if it does "pretty much everything", which is the reason it's overperforming and why it gets nerfed, right? :D

Right, and I'd be happy to be able to play Warrior again and not Rampage: The Class. The nerfs are definitely necessary.

But at the same time that one skill that consumed Warrior's identity for so long is gone now, and baseline Warrior is still the same. Therefore; like I said to the OP, I don't think Warriors are going to drop Rampage. I'll content myself to not playing still until Warrior and SB's base kits get some buffs.

Good time for Engie players though. You don't have to consider taking Elixir X anymore.

[Lighter.5631]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:Every other Warrior elite skill is trash, so it's pretty much guaranteed warriors will still take rampage inside PvP at least.

With all the CC/damage skills getting nerfed people will probably just use Rampage 4 & 5 to CC and set up for Rampage 3, if not immediately swapping out of rampage for their GS bursts once they've used it to CC someone. Spamming the auto-attack just isn't practical unless you're trying to punish a revive.

Rampage is also pretty good for securing clutch revives and stomps because of the damage reduction and Stability so it'l probably still be used in that way. Much better than Battle Standard at least.

I could be wrong though. With damage going down across the board, there will probably be more bunkers and rampage was never really good VS Bunkers because stability, blocks, and blinds just eat the skill already.

How would rampage be a better choice to simply stomp or rezz a player than banner?

You dont have to stand in cleave at all to cast a banner, you can even start casting and walk fully out of range to drop it. Its also harder to see in the midst of a fight than a stomp or a rezz.

Because banner is complete trash and it's even more trash in unorganized pvp?first of all, rampage has 96 CD, banner has 180second of all, banner can be easily dodged by clueless teammate, either with down state blink/mist form/ w/e. while rampage rez is basically u know some one is resing you so they don't do stupid shit.third of all, banner is not guaranteed res either, can be easily out damaged or poison or w/e, not only rampage can stop people from damaging the downed, it can also interrupt resses.and finally banner does nothing when there's no down, why would u plant banner before any downs thus making the boons pointless almost, not like the boons are any more useful with all the classes crap them out like candy.

tldr banner is trash in pvp.

personally tho, i would say its trash in all modes

and signet, it's even more trash in pvp, i'd rather take kick/throw bolas in the elite slot and it would be twice better.

[RedShark.9548]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:Every other Warrior elite skill is trash, so it's pretty much guaranteed warriors will still take rampage inside PvP at least.

With all the CC/damage skills getting nerfed people will probably just use Rampage 4 & 5 to CC and set up for Rampage 3, if not immediately swapping out of rampage for their GS bursts once they've used it to CC someone. Spamming the auto-attack just isn't practical unless you're trying to punish a revive.

Rampage is also pretty good for securing clutch revives and stomps because of the damage reduction and Stability so it'l probably still be used in that way. Much better than Battle Standard at least.

I could be wrong though. With damage going down across the board, there will probably be more bunkers and rampage was never really good VS Bunkers because stability, blocks, and blinds just eat the skill already.

How would rampage be a better choice to simply stomp or rezz a player than banner?

You dont have to stand in cleave at all to cast a banner, you can even start casting and walk fully out of range to drop it. Its also harder to see in the midst of a fight than a stomp or a rezz.

Because banner is complete trash and it's even more trash in unorganized pvp?first of all, rampage has 96 CD, banner has 180second of all, banner can be easily dodged by clueless teammate, either with down state blink/mist form/ w/e. while rampage rez is basically u know some one is resing you so they don't do stupid kitten.third of all, banner is not guaranteed res either, can be easily out damaged or poison or w/e, not only rampage can stop people from damaging the downed, it can also interrupt resses.and finally banner does nothing when there's no down, why would u plant banner before any downs thus making the boons pointless almost, not like the boons are any more useful with all the classes kitten them out like candy.

tldr banner is trash in pvp.

personally tho, i would say its trash in all modes

and signet, it's even more trash in pvp, i'd rather take kick/throw bolas in the elite slot and it would be twice better.

As i mentioned before, the cd is lowered if you pick it up before it runs out on its own.

I always hated rampage, and it being nerfed is the first step of other things being hopefully buffed.

It will probably take a while, but whatever.But ppl in higher tiers of play will realize very quickly that warrior will underperform without overpowered rampage, so logically there has to be made some adjustments (i know anets logic is questionable alot of the time)

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@RedShark.9548 said:

As i mentioned before, the cd is lowered if you pick it up before it runs out on its own.

I always hated rampage, and it being nerfed is the first step of other things being hopefully buffed.

It will probably take a while, but whatever.But ppl in higher tiers of play will realize very quickly that warrior will underperform without overpowered rampage, so logically there has to be made some adjustments (i know anets logic is questionable alot of the time)

Maybe Signet of Rage could refresh all Bursts and refill the adrenaline gauge when used? That would make it worth taking in every game mode.

[RedShark.9548]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

As i mentioned before, the cd is lowered if you pick it up before it runs out on its own.

I always hated rampage, and it being nerfed is the first step of other things being hopefully buffed.

It will probably take a while, but whatever.But ppl in higher tiers of play will realize very quickly that warrior will underperform without overpowered rampage, so logically there has to be made some adjustments (i know anets logic is questionable alot of the time)

Maybe Signet of Rage could refresh all Bursts and refill the adrenaline gauge when used? That would make it worth taking in every game mode.

Yea, well, in wvw id still use WoD in zergs and rampage isnt changed there, which still makes it the strongest skill when roaming solo

In pve, it would make sense if you are berserker, i think in core you only use bursts to keep berserkers power up and using them more is actually a dmg loss in raids...

For pvp it would make sense. Might actually make it a bit too strong.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

As i mentioned before, the cd is lowered if you pick it up before it runs out on its own.

I always hated rampage, and it being nerfed is the first step of other things being hopefully buffed.

It will probably take a while, but whatever.But ppl in higher tiers of play will realize very quickly that warrior will underperform without overpowered rampage, so logically there has to be made some adjustments (i know anets logic is questionable alot of the time)

Maybe Signet of Rage could refresh all Bursts and refill the adrenaline gauge when used? That would make it worth taking in every game mode.

Yea, well, in wvw id still use WoD in zergs and rampage isnt changed there, which still makes it the strongest skill when roaming solo

In pve, it would make sense if you are berserker, i think in core you only use bursts to keep berserkers power up and using them more is actually a dmg loss in raids...

For pvp it would make sense. Might actually make it a bit too strong.

Well, for a Roaming Berserker it would also be a benefit over Headbutt and would save a healing/utility slot that may have been used for adrenaline gain/burst refresh, or could be used with Blood Reckoning for triple bursts.

As far as Rampage goes, it would be an elite that doesn't get kited. Some people may prefer the instant refill of their adrenaline and recharged bursts on Core rather than Rampage. Back to Back Arcing Slices or Earthshakers would be very nice on either Core or Spellbreaker.

Mmmm on Spellbreaker it would refresh FC as well. So you could have Burst->FC->Burst->SoR->Burst->FC->Burst... That would be rather aggressive so long as derp players procced FC for you...

[RedShark.9548]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

As i mentioned before, the cd is lowered if you pick it up before it runs out on its own.

I always hated rampage, and it being nerfed is the first step of other things being hopefully buffed.

It will probably take a while, but whatever.But ppl in higher tiers of play will realize very quickly that warrior will underperform without overpowered rampage, so logically there has to be made some adjustments (i know anets logic is questionable alot of the time)

Maybe Signet of Rage could refresh all Bursts and refill the adrenaline gauge when used? That would make it worth taking in every game mode.

Yea, well, in wvw id still use WoD in zergs and rampage isnt changed there, which still makes it the strongest skill when roaming solo

In pve, it would make sense if you are berserker, i think in core you only use bursts to keep berserkers power up and using them more is actually a dmg loss in raids...

For pvp it would make sense. Might actually make it a bit too strong.

Well, for a Roaming Berserker it would also be a benefit over Headbutt and would save a healing/utility slot that may have been used for adrenaline gain/burst refresh, or could be used with Blood Reckoning for triple bursts.

As far as Rampage goes, it would be an elite that doesn't get kited. Some people may prefer the instant refill of their adrenaline and recharged bursts on Core rather than Rampage. Back to Back Arcing Slices or Earthshakers would be very nice on either Core or Spellbreaker.

Mmmm on Spellbreaker it would refresh FC as well. So you could have Burst->FC->Burst->SoR->Burst->FC->Burst... That would be rather aggressive so long as kitten players procced FC for you...

Like i said, in some cases it might even be too strong

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

As i mentioned before, the cd is lowered if you pick it up before it runs out on its own.

I always hated rampage, and it being nerfed is the first step of other things being hopefully buffed.

It will probably take a while, but whatever.But ppl in higher tiers of play will realize very quickly that warrior will underperform without overpowered rampage, so logically there has to be made some adjustments (i know anets logic is questionable alot of the time)

Maybe Signet of Rage could refresh all Bursts and refill the adrenaline gauge when used? That would make it worth taking in every game mode.

Yea, well, in wvw id still use WoD in zergs and rampage isnt changed there, which still makes it the strongest skill when roaming solo

In pve, it would make sense if you are berserker, i think in core you only use bursts to keep berserkers power up and using them more is actually a dmg loss in raids...

For pvp it would make sense. Might actually make it a bit too strong.

Well, for a Roaming Berserker it would also be a benefit over Headbutt and would save a healing/utility slot that may have been used for adrenaline gain/burst refresh, or could be used with Blood Reckoning for triple bursts.

As far as Rampage goes, it would be an elite that doesn't get kited. Some people may prefer the instant refill of their adrenaline and recharged bursts on Core rather than Rampage. Back to Back Arcing Slices or Earthshakers would be very nice on either Core or Spellbreaker.

Mmmm on Spellbreaker it would refresh FC as well. So you could have Burst->FC->Burst->SoR->Burst->FC->Burst... That would be rather aggressive so long as kitten players procced FC for you...

Like i said, in some cases it might even be too strong

Well, if you were fighting a derp player you would win anyway so... It boils down to zerg play or small scale play and if that combo is better than WoD.

[Robban.1256]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"sarangajit.5648" said:So now when I press my elite skill called 'Rampage', I start doing less damage? xD

Yet you still receive reduced dmg, 456789437689 cc skills with range and/or mobility with some swiftness/stab sprinkled on top of it. For 15 seconds.0.01 coefficient might be overkill, but stop pretending that skill isn't straight up oppressive xD

Yes, "might", as I'm still not convinced it will magically stop being picked because of no dmg on hard cc skills. Is anyone here sure about it becoming not viable after these changes?

Rampage = violent or excited behavior that is reckless, uncontrolled, or destructive. (For example- a bull elephant rampaging through the jungle.)

[Sobx.1758]

@Robban.1256 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"sarangajit.5648" said:So now when I press my elite skill called 'Rampage', I start doing less damage? xD

Yet you still receive reduced dmg, 456789437689 cc skills with range and/or mobility with some swiftness/stab sprinkled on top of it. For 15 seconds.0.01 coefficient might be overkill, but stop pretending that skill isn't straight up oppressive xD

Yes, "might", as I'm still not convinced it will magically stop being picked because of no dmg on hard cc skills. Is anyone here sure about it becoming not viable after these changes?

Rampage = violent or excited behavior that is reckless, uncontrolled, or destructive. (For example- a bull elephant rampaging through the jungle.)

Great, is this supposed to be some kind of argument or what's your point here?

[Lighter.5631]

meh, rampage is still meta, because everything else sucks.

tho theme wise, this is ridiculous, they should just add base damage instead.i quit holo in solely because they reduced ranged on holo 5, so it's like you swing a huge hammer then end up having a small wave, so it breaks immersion for me..

[Fueki.4753]

So, Core Warrior has no good Elite left for PvP.

They might as well allow regular skills into the Elite slot now.I'd make more use of a 4th Utility skill than I make of Rampage now.

[DKRathalos.9625]

So in other word Warrior need a better elite skill especially for core and zerker, spellbreaker bubble is nice but I am not sure if that could be improved any further, maybe if they give meditation CDR trait.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Fueki.4753 said:So, Core Warrior has no good Elite left for PvP.

They might as well allow regular skills into the Elite slot now.I'd make more use of a 4th Utility skill than I make of Rampage now.

Well if they made Signet of Rage refill the adrenaline gauge and refresh all Bursts instead of boons I can already get elsewhere that would be a great change for every warrior variant.

[Sobx.1758]

Some people here vastly overdo the "rampage is so useless right now" bit. It's far from useless, it's just not stupidly oppressive anymore. You just got too reliant on a skill that did everything for you.

[Robban.1256]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Robban.1256 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"sarangajit.5648" said:So now when I press my elite skill called 'Rampage', I start doing less damage? xD

Yet you still receive reduced dmg, 456789437689 cc skills with range and/or mobility with some swiftness/stab sprinkled on top of it. For 15 seconds.0.01 coefficient might be overkill, but stop pretending that skill isn't straight up oppressive xD

Yes, "might", as I'm still not convinced it will magically stop being picked because of no dmg on hard cc skills. Is anyone here sure about it becoming not viable after these changes?

Rampage = violent or excited behavior that is reckless, uncontrolled, or destructive. (For example- a bull elephant rampaging through the jungle.)

Great, is this supposed to be some kind of argument or what's your point here?

That the name of the skill doesnt fit with what it does

[Sobx.1758]

@Robban.1256 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Robban.1256 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"sarangajit.5648" said:So now when I press my elite skill called 'Rampage', I start doing less damage? xD

Yet you still receive reduced dmg, 456789437689 cc skills with range and/or mobility with some swiftness/stab sprinkled on top of it. For 15 seconds.0.01 coefficient might be overkill, but stop pretending that skill isn't straight up oppressive xD

Yes, "might", as I'm still not convinced it will magically stop being picked because of no dmg on hard cc skills. Is anyone here sure about it becoming not viable after these changes?

Rampage = violent or excited behavior that is reckless, uncontrolled, or destructive. (For example- a bull elephant rampaging through the jungle.)

Great, is this supposed to be some kind of argument or what's your point here?

That the name of the skill doesnt fit with what it does

Heartseeker doesn't hit heart and doesn't one-shot anything that has it. 100B doesn't actually have 100 blades nor does it hit 100 times. And how can the enemy still walk shortly after getting hit with a backbreaker? In the end the name of a skill is irrelevant and obivously shouldn't allow it to overperform.

[Robban.1256]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Robban.1256 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Robban.1256 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"sarangajit.5648" said:So now when I press my elite skill called 'Rampage', I start doing less damage? xD

Yet you still receive reduced dmg, 456789437689 cc skills with range and/or mobility with some swiftness/stab sprinkled on top of it. For 15 seconds.0.01 coefficient might be overkill, but stop pretending that skill isn't straight up oppressive xD

Yes, "might", as I'm still not convinced it will magically stop being picked because of no dmg on hard cc skills. Is anyone here sure about it becoming not viable after these changes?

Rampage = violent or excited behavior that is reckless, uncontrolled, or destructive. (For example- a bull elephant rampaging through the jungle.)

Great, is this supposed to be some kind of argument or what's your point here?

That the name of the skill doesnt fit with what it does

Heartseeker doesn't hit heart and doesn't one-shot anything that has it. 100B doesn't actually have 100 blades nor does it hit 100 times. And how can the enemy still walk shortly after getting hit with a backbreaker? In the end the name of a skill is irrelevant and obivously shouldn't allow it to overperform.

To seek you dont have to hit (the heart ( just trying to hit it), and the name 100B comes from gw1 and you could prob hit 100 times there with it since for 15 seconds, whenever you attack with a sword, all adjacent foes takes dmg, you dont need an back to move see for example Flatworms, seastar, axolotl, lizards, seacumber

[Knighthonor.4061]

@"Sobx.1758" said:Some people here vastly overdo the "rampage is so useless right now" bit. It's far from useless, it's just not stupidly oppressive anymore. You just got too reliant on a skill that did everything for you.

big nerf to core though. Should have been split from core balance honestly.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Reducing damage by 50% would have been sufficient.