Holo Needs Buffs and Nerfs (Formerly: The recent changes to Holo were good but they weren't enough.)

[Leonidrex.5649]

@bravan.3876 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

1. Lock On needs to have the double proc removed (keep the cc one, remove the on-hit one) and increase the cooldown from 25s to 30s.
2. Toss Elixir S stealth needs to get reduced from 6s to 3s. The cooldown is only 30s and it's basically a free reset every time a holo uses it. The current iteration literally gives more stealth uptime than a traited Mass Invisibility on mesmer and the cast time is only 1/2s.
3. Net Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with a visible animation tied to it.
4. Blunderbuss needs a cast time increase to 3/4s with a bigger animation tied to it.
5. Overcharged Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with visible animation tied to it.
6. Photon Forge autoattack range needs to get reduced to match other melee auto attacks.
7. Healing Turret needs it's cast time increased from 3/4s to 1s.

1. agree
2. agree
3. rofl nope it is fine as it is
4. nope don't see any problems here
5. not sure how to deal with that one. For a hard cc in melee it has too less counterplay in current state but threating it like Ranger bow knockback is alsowrong because it has a self punish effect other cc doesn't have. A better animation would help a lot already.
6. Autoattacks in general should not have such high dmg that spamming it is rewarding enough, imo the dmg is too high. Reduce dmg and let the range as it is.
7. Hell no! 3/4 cast time for a heal is totally ok, the problem was more the free full reset with Elixier s what doesn't get solved by higher casttime anyway,also you already want to nerf Elixier s. Tools which are meant for these kind of mindful interrupts have way lower cast times (daze often is instant) andcan interrupt it with a good chance by watching the animation, hard cc with casttime from 3/4 is not meant for that purpose. 3/4 casttime hard cc ismeant to lock down, it can be used to interrupt when you predict the healuse correctly what then is balanced because it needs another braincell fromthe user. Giving heals a casttime so every hard cc (that is not only a daze) in this game can interrupt it easy makes it unplayable. That is exactly whatstuff like Mantra of Distraction is for and not your lock down hard cc. Lock down hard cc is not an interrupt tool in the first place.

Do you think 1/2 cast time on overcharged shot, along with clear animation would work?While increasing projectile speed by a large margin.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:All I want is proper risk vs. reward. When I'm fighting, it should feel like I'm fighting against the player not the build. Unfortunately, specs like Holosmith can quite literally rotate 2-5 on rifle, throw a particle accelerator in there, enter photon forge and roll 2-5, then spam 1 for a few seconds and repeat. Then, if they get pressured, they have Healing Turret which can only be reliably interrupted by instant/near instant CCs, and then they have Elixir S and Toss Elixir S (with the latter being a 6 second stealth on a 30 second cooldown in an AoE).

1.) Must not be able to rotate skills #2-5 on both weapon sets, not enough risk of missing multiple abilities,2.) Heal skills must be be under reliable threat of being interrupted, not enough risk to sustain primarily with 3/4s cast time skills,3.) A spec spending up to 20% of gameplay in stealth is too much, not enough risk because 6s of stealth every 30s removes risk of dying,

Did I accurately sum up your 3 reasons of how Holosmith is too low risk?

I can't launch into an extensive list of whataboutisms because these 3 standards you're applying don't apply to anybody else. Apparently GW2 doesn't have proper risk vs. reward: Show me a weapon set you absolutely can't faceroll to moderate accuracy with reasonably short cooldowns, show me a class that has no access to uninterruptable sustain abilities, or can cover/layer instead defensive skills to reliably self-sustain without real threat of one well-timed headshot ending their life. Show me a spec that has access to stealth can't pull 6 seconds off on a reasonable cooldown.

Mirage exists and this thread be like: "Yup, unfair to faceroll Rifle and Photon Forge." "Yup, unfair for a heal skill to not be readily interruptable." "Yup, 6 seconds of stealth every 30s is broken for a class to achieve."

And then after:

Staff 2-3-4-5, Scepter-Pistol 5-4-3-2

,

while dodges during the casting of their heal skill

, and then

instantly vanish and reset combat.

Edit: Not an argument to how Mirage or Holo are over or under performing, just pointing out how risk/reward often works in GW2, it's gonna be often be asymmetrical among classes with various balances of risk vs. reward

The amount of hypocrisy truly astounds.

1. Mm that's a little wrong. I'm not concerned with the "risk" involved in missing multiple attacks while spamming rifle skills. Instead, I'm talking about the fact that landing Net Shot or Overcharged Shot (both skills prevent the enemy from dodging, do not have cast times/animations that are possible to react to in melee range, AND are on low cooldowns) create a massive advantage for the Holo. Like Net Shot alone is CRAZY strong. I would love to have the ability to immobilize someone for 2 seconds every 9 seconds (with the option of doing so at range, and without them being able to react in melee).
2. Yes. Interrupting healing skills to prevent the enemy from resustaining is skillful play. Healing Turret and Troll Unguent, both strong healing skills, are much harder to interrupt than they should be.
3. Okay, yeah Toss Elixir S gives the holo 20% stealth uptime but that's not what makes it strong. What's broken about it is the fact that the stealth lasts SIX SECONDS. If a Holo uses this skill (which is available twice every minute), they can Holo Leap, super speed, and/or Jump Shot out of combat. The fact that this can be done every 30 seconds is completely insane. The 6 seconds of stealth would still be incredibly powerful even if the cooldown were to be doubled to 60 seconds.

Fully traited Mass Invis is an elite skill that takes over a second to channel and grants 9 seconds of stealth every 48 seconds. (can be used once every minute)Toss Elixir S' cast time is 1/2 a second, the animation is extremely minor, and grants 6 seconds of stealth every 30 seconds. (can be used TWICE every minute, for 12 seconds of stealth every 60 seconds)

Toss Elixir S is literally just a better version of Mass Invis without the range and it's a TOOLBELT skill, not even an elite.

4. Ranger longbow can't be facerolled with moderate accuracy. Missing/wasting/not utilizing the stealth and/or knockback is extremely dangerous against competent players.
5. Mirage's False Oasis is a heal skill that can be completely covered by Mirage Cloak. It is impossible to interrupt as long as the Mirage has a single charge.

Also I hated Sic Em unblockable soulbeast, bunker boonbeast, and mender bunker druid builds. I thought they took no skill and would've loved for them all to be nerfed/reworked. I have these same concerns with my main class as well.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

1. Lock On needs to have the double proc removed (keep the cc one, remove the on-hit one) and increase the cooldown from 25s to 30s.
2. Toss Elixir S stealth needs to get reduced from 6s to 3s. The cooldown is only 30s and it's basically a free reset every time a holo uses it. The current iteration literally gives more stealth uptime than a traited Mass Invisibility on mesmer and the cast time is only 1/2s.
3. Net Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with a visible animation tied to it.
4. Blunderbuss needs a cast time increase to 3/4s with a bigger animation tied to it.
5. Overcharged Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with visible animation tied to it.
6. Photon Forge autoattack range needs to get reduced to match other melee auto attacks.
7. Healing Turret needs it's cast time increased from 3/4s to 1s.

1. agree
2. agree
3. rofl nope it is fine as it is
4. nope don't see any problems here
5. not sure how to deal with that one. For a hard cc in melee it has too less counterplay in current state but threating it like Ranger bow knockback is alsowrong because it has a self punish effect other cc doesn't have. A better animation would help a lot already.
6. Autoattacks in general should not have such high dmg that spamming it is rewarding enough, imo the dmg is too high. Reduce dmg and let the range as it is.
7. Hell no! 3/4 cast time for a heal is totally ok, the problem was more the free full reset with Elixier s what doesn't get solved by higher casttime anyway,also you already want to nerf Elixier s. Tools which are meant for these kind of mindful interrupts have way lower cast times (daze often is instant) andcan interrupt it with a good chance by watching the animation, hard cc with casttime from 3/4 is not meant for that purpose. 3/4 casttime hard cc ismeant to lock down, it can be used to interrupt when you predict the healuse correctly what then is balanced because it needs another braincell fromthe user. Giving heals a casttime so every hard cc (that is not only a daze) in this game can interrupt it easy makes it unplayable. That is exactly whatstuff like Mantra of Distraction is for and not your lock down hard cc. Lock down hard cc is not an interrupt tool in the first place.

Do you think 1/2 cast time on overcharged shot, along with clear animation would work?While increasing projectile speed by a large margin.

Honestly they could buff Overcharged Shot and remove the self-CC as long as it had a fucking visible windup/animation I could dodge.

I literally just want to be able to SEE the damn CC... I'm not asking for a lot here.

Half a second cast time with a clear animation and buffing the projectile speed would be perfectly fine imo. That would make it function like Point Blank Shot which is fast but possible to react to consistently if someone is paying attention. And again, if they made these 3 changes, I'm fine with removing the self knockback as well.

[Ouk.5914]

ranger get stealth with smoke scale which is in a 20 second cooldown.... this can be blasted by multiple team fights which can give you a 9 second stealth also not mentioning if traited it can Also blind an enemy.

If a people aren't smart enough to blast it before a battle at mid or in general rangers can just use a leap to get a 3 second stealth on a 20 second cool-down from a pet.

with your logic this should get nerfed?

But because you're probably bias you would say no? Elixir S if Not traited has 45 second cool-down for a 5 second duration stealth, if traited for HgH you can get it for 36 second cool-down with a 6 second stealth duration.

I play a lot of prot holo and I don't use the HGH trait nor do I run the tools trait line at all. Even when against Rev's and Holo I rarely get revealed out of stealth from players. It's pretty obvious if you have a rifle holo on your ass and you aren't CCing them before going into stealth then this is a Learn 2 Play issue.

You apparently play Mantra Mesmer now?

Blink away then stealth problem solved you shouldn't get revealed at this point.

You Main Ranger ?

Use Counter Attack then stealth or Use Long Bow knock back to then go into stealth with great sword leap.

If that isn't enough then I don't understand the issue beside you probably fighting close enough for the holo to reveal you out of stealth instead of re-positioning yourself to get an opening on them. long story short my dude you been on a "nerf" wave for a while now and this entire holo issue is beyond dumb. I understand and agree that their dps is fairly high but we gotta relax with the amount of nerf post and suggestion your making with a class you don't even main or understand very well.

Imagine Adding cast time to Net shot and Blunderbuss which are already really crap on rifle as it is but you want to make it worse lol? Mind you Rifle 5 Jump shot gets bugged out sometimes and doesn't even land on the mark where it needs to lol.

[Don Vega Van Kain.9842]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

1. Lock On needs to have the double proc removed (keep the cc one, remove the on-hit one) and increase the cooldown from 25s to 30s.
2. Toss Elixir S stealth needs to get reduced from 6s to 3s. The cooldown is only 30s and it's basically a free reset every time a holo uses it. The current iteration literally gives more stealth uptime than a traited Mass Invisibility on mesmer and the cast time is only 1/2s.
3. Net Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with a visible animation tied to it.
4. Blunderbuss needs a cast time increase to 3/4s with a bigger animation tied to it.
5. Overcharged Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with visible animation tied to it.
6. Photon Forge autoattack range needs to get reduced to match other melee auto attacks.
7. Healing Turret needs it's cast time increased from 3/4s to 1s.

Lul, you're still here :D complaigning ans spamming messages.

What I can tell you is that you're a tough guy, worse than a doberman, even if i'm not ok with all your ideas, i like you :)

[Chaith.8256]

@shadowpass.4236 said:I literally just want to be able to SEE the kitten CC... I'm not asking for a lot here.

A self CC'ing skill that your opponent will react and dodge to sounds pretty underwhelming. Maybe you are just not aware that many professions have a specified amount of damage/CC skills that are difficult to avoid so that they necessitate cooldown use on their enemies?

Nobody bats an eyelash at Deadeye's Binding Shadows 3s knockdown from stealth, Necromancer's Doom (Death Shroud #3). Imagine if we made a balance pass and changed all CC's to have a significant visible animation or travel time. People would definitely be forced to blow cooldowns a lot less, people would live a lot longer. It's a very slippery slope, where one outcome is that you end up with a double standard forced on Engineer's Rifle, (mostly what you're suggesting) or the other outcome is that you think it'd be a good balance philosophy to make all immobilizes and CC's have a half second tell and be dodge-able. The big problem with that is that CC's would be rather difficult if not impossible to land on classes with high iFrame frequency to where they can always save a stunbreak for a rainy day. I don't think that balance shift away from slower, less iFrame classes would be healthy.

[bravan.3876]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

1. Lock On needs to have the double proc removed (keep the cc one, remove the on-hit one) and increase the cooldown from 25s to 30s.
2. Toss Elixir S stealth needs to get reduced from 6s to 3s. The cooldown is only 30s and it's basically a free reset every time a holo uses it. The current iteration literally gives more stealth uptime than a traited Mass Invisibility on mesmer and the cast time is only 1/2s.
3. Net Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with a visible animation tied to it.
4. Blunderbuss needs a cast time increase to 3/4s with a bigger animation tied to it.
5. Overcharged Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with visible animation tied to it.
6. Photon Forge autoattack range needs to get reduced to match other melee auto attacks.
7. Healing Turret needs it's cast time increased from 3/4s to 1s.

1. agree
2. agree
3. rofl nope it is fine as it is
4. nope don't see any problems here
5. not sure how to deal with that one. For a hard cc in melee it has too less counterplay in current state but threating it like Ranger bow knockback is also wrongbecause it has a self punish effect other cc doesn't have. A better animation would help a lot already.
6. Autoattacks in general should not have such high dmg that spamming it is rewarding enough, imo the dmg is too high. Reduce dmg and let the range as it is.
7. Hell no! 3/4 cast time for a heal is totally ok, the problem was more the free full reset with Elixier s what doesn't get solved by higher casttime anyway, also youalready want to nerf Elixier s. Tools which are meant for these kind of mindful interrupts have way lower cast times (daze often is instant) and can interrupt it with agood chance by watching the animation, hard cc with casttime from 3/4 is not meant for that purpose. 3/4 casttime hard cc is meant to lock down, it can be used tointerrupt when you predict the healuse correctly what then is balanced because it needs another braincell from the user. Giving heals a casttime so every hard cc(that is not only a daze) in this game can interrupt it easy makes it unplayable. That is exactly what stuff like Mantra of Distraction is for and not your lock down hardcc. Lock down hard cc is not an interrupt tool in the first place.

Regarding the healing skill, I'd like Troll Unguent to be increased to 1s from 3/4s as well. Like ranger might not be meta but there's still stuff I find problematic with my own class.

All I want is proper risk vs. reward. When I'm fighting, it should feel like I'm fighting against the player not the build. Unfortunately, specs like Holosmith can quite literally rotate 2-5 on rifle, throw a particle accelerator in there, enter photon forge and roll 2-5, then spam 1 for a few seconds and repeat. Then, if they get pressured, they have Healing Turret which can only be reliably interrupted by instant/near instant CCs, and then they have Elixir S and Toss Elixir S (with the latter being a 6 second stealth on a 30 second cooldown in an AoE).

Lock On is also a completely passive trait that gives Holos stupid amounts of value against classes that can stealth with little to no input/additional thought on their part but at least you agree with this one.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

2. Yes. Interrupting healing skills to prevent the enemy from resustaining
   is
   skillful play. Healing Turret and Troll Unguent, both strong healing skills, are much harder to interrupt than they should be.

Not true! Those heals are exactly as hard to interrupt as they should be by instant interrupt tools, to make interrupt playstyle skillful but possible. Lock down cc with 3/4 cast time is not meant to be able to do that and it would not be skillful if they could do that, because they are lock downs already and for that way stronger and preventing defensive moves like dodging and kiting/ movement already.As said when you give all heals a cast time long enough that all hard cc lock down skills can reactively interrupt it without the need of prediction than you just can delete heals from the game because they will be nearly unplayable. If you look at all heals 3/4 casttime is already in the higher category from all heals. Only few special heals with additional effects or mechanics have more than 3/4. 3/4 sec cast time lock down cc is just not an interrupt tool, for that we have as you mentioned yourself instant daze tools which are meant for that reactive interrupt purpose because they are useless for lock down and hit follow ups and not rewarding enough when brainless spammed without interrupting anything (as long as daze duration is short). This is simply a difference between instant interrupt (daze) tools and hard lock down cc with cast time, implemented in the game that way for a reason. Nerfing heal casttime so every lock down hard cc can also be an rewarding and reactive interrupt tool vs heals (and then also a lot of other skills with 3/4 casttime) would make lock down cc just as op as making them instant too. There is a reason some cc has a casttime and how long it is and that some (non lock down) cc doesn't have a casttime.

Yes i agreed to Lock On nerf, but not sure if i would not better let the on hit part survive and delete the on interrupt part, because this game has too less reveal that doesn't need a target to work (so works when the target is already stealthed). Even though the on interrupt part ofc is way more skillbased than the on hit part.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

Do you think 1/2 cast time on overcharged shot, along with clear animation would work?While increasing projectile speed by a large margin.

I am not sure, i think Rifle will get very clunky and slow when Engi is locked into animations too long. I mean sure in conquest it doesn't help when the Engi cc himself but his 4 teammates can still instant jump you after you got instant hard cced. Maybe is it possible to make the projectile speed dependent on range? I mean in under 200 range it will still be instant but that would be something: make the projectile slower when skill is used between 600-150 range and better visible in general. I think that could be enough already. No clue if this is possible to do with the spaghetti code?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

5. Overcharged Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with visible animation tied to it.

That's the only thing I agree with here. particularly because of the last bit.

Everything else seems over the top.

EDIT:

1. Lock On needs to have the double proc removed (keep the cc one, remove the on-hit one) and increase the cooldown from 25s to 30s.

I also agree with this.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:I literally just want to be able to SEE the kitten CC... I'm not asking for a lot here.

A self CC'ing skill that your opponent will react and dodge to sounds pretty underwhelming. Maybe you are just not aware that many professions have a specified amount of damage/CC skills that are difficult to avoid so that they necessitate cooldown use on their enemies?

Nobody bats an eyelash at Deadeye's Binding Shadows 3s knockdown from stealth, Necromancer's Doom (Death Shroud #3). I

People do complain about binding shadows. Fear is a minor cc that you can condi cleanse. Both of those have less duration than getting launch procced on you.And when berserker headbutt first came out people flipped the forums asking for it to be slowed down, even though it also imposes CC on the user, and now it has a 3/4 second cast time even though its less than half the range of overcharged shot so...None of that really defends this in particular.

[mortrialus.3062]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:All I want is proper risk vs. reward. When I'm fighting, it should feel like I'm fighting against the player not the build. Unfortunately, specs like Holosmith can quite literally rotate 2-5 on rifle, throw a particle accelerator in there, enter photon forge and roll 2-5, then spam 1 for a few seconds and repeat. Then, if they get pressured, they have Healing Turret which can only be reliably interrupted by instant/near instant CCs, and then they have Elixir S and Toss Elixir S (with the latter being a 6 second stealth on a 30 second cooldown in an AoE).

1.) Must not be able to rotate skills #2-5 on both weapon sets, not enough risk of missing multiple abilities,2.) Heal skills must be be under reliable threat of being interrupted, not enough risk to sustain primarily with 3/4s cast time skills,3.) A spec spending up to 20% of gameplay in stealth is too much, not enough risk because 6s of stealth every 30s removes risk of dying,

Did I accurately sum up your 3 reasons of how Holosmith is too low risk?

I can't launch into an extensive list of whataboutisms because these 3 standards you're applying don't apply to anybody else. Apparently GW2 doesn't have proper risk vs. reward: Show me a weapon set you absolutely can't faceroll to moderate accuracy with reasonably short cooldowns, show me a class that has no access to uninterruptable sustain abilities, or can cover/layer instead defensive skills to reliably self-sustain without real threat of one well-timed headshot ending their life. Show me a spec that has access to stealth can't pull 6 seconds off on a reasonable cooldown.

Mirage exists and this thread be like: "Yup, unfair to faceroll Rifle and Photon Forge." "Yup, unfair for a heal skill to not be readily interruptable." "Yup, 6 seconds of stealth every 30s is broken for a class to achieve."

And then after:

Staff 2-3-4-5, Scepter-Pistol 5-4-3-2

,

while dodges during the casting of their heal skill

, and then

instantly vanish and reset combat.

Edit: Not an argument to how Mirage or Holo are over or under performing, just pointing out how risk/reward often works in GW2, it's gonna be often be asymmetrical among classes with various balances of risk vs. reward

The amount of hypocrisy truly astounds.

1. Mm that's a little wrong. I'm not concerned with the "risk" involved in missing multiple attacks while spamming rifle skills. Instead, I'm talking about the fact that landing Net Shot or Overcharged Shot (both skills prevent the enemy from dodging, do not have cast times/animations that are possible to react to in melee range, AND are on low cooldowns) create a massive advantage for the Holo. Like Net Shot alone is CRAZY strong. I would love to have the ability to immobilize someone for 2 seconds every 9 seconds (with the option of doing so at range, and without them being able to react in melee).
2. Yes. Interrupting healing skills to prevent the enemy from resustaining
   is
   skillful play. Healing Turret and Troll Unguent, both strong healing skills, are much harder to interrupt than they should be.
3. Okay, yeah Toss Elixir S gives the holo 20% stealth uptime but that's not what makes it strong. What's broken about it is the fact that the stealth lasts SIX SECONDS. If a Holo uses this skill (which is available twice every minute), they can Holo Leap, super speed, and/or Jump Shot out of combat. The fact that this can be done every 30 seconds is completely insane. The 6 seconds of stealth would still be incredibly powerful even if the cooldown were to be doubled to 60 seconds.

Fully traited Mass Invis is an elite skill that takes over a second to channel and grants 9 seconds of stealth every 48 seconds. (can be used once every minute)Toss Elixir S' cast time is 1/2 a second, the animation is extremely minor, and grants 6 seconds of stealth every 30 seconds. (can be used TWICE every minute, for 12 seconds of stealth every 60 seconds)

Toss Elixir S is literally just a better version of Mass Invis without the range and it's a TOOLBELT skill, not even an elite.

4. Ranger longbow can't be facerolled with moderate accuracy. Missing/wasting/not utilizing the stealth and/or knockback is extremely dangerous against competent players.
5. Mirage's False Oasis is a heal skill that can be completely covered by Mirage Cloak. It is impossible to interrupt as long as the Mirage has a single charge.

Also I hated Sic Em unblockable soulbeast, bunker boonbeast, and mender bunker druid builds. I thought they took no skill and would've loved for them all to be nerfed/reworked. I have these same concerns with my main class as well.

I've personally advocated for a 20% reduction in base healing on False Oasis as with both the vigor and the mirror it's healing too much for the amount of direct combat utility it provides, in addition to bumping up the cast time to 1.25 seconds so it can't be 100% covered by Mirage Cloak.

@Chaith.8256 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:I literally just want to be able to SEE the kitten CC... I'm not asking for a lot here.

A self CC'ing skill that your opponent will react and dodge to sounds pretty underwhelming. Maybe you are just not aware that many professions have a specified amount of damage/CC skills that are difficult to avoid so that they necessitate cooldown use on their enemies?

Nobody bats an eyelash at Deadeye's Binding Shadows 3s knockdown from stealth, Necromancer's Doom (Death Shroud #3). Imagine if we made a balance pass and changed all CC's to have a significant visible animation or travel time. People would definitely be forced to blow cooldowns a lot less, people would live a lot longer. It's a very slippery slope, where one outcome is that you end up with a double standard forced on Engineer's Rifle, (mostly what you're suggesting) or the other outcome is that you think it'd be a good balance philosophy to make all immobilizes and CC's have a half second tell and be dodge-able. The big problem with that is that CC's would be rather difficult if not impossible to land on classes with high iFrame frequency to where they can always save a stunbreak for a rainy day. I don't think that balance shift away from slower, less iFrame classes would be healthy.

Berserker's Headbut while it moves you forward 400 requires the attack to actually connect in melee range and it removes stability so you can't just avoid the self-stun. Despite being harder to land it still has a 0.75 second cast time with a noticeable unique tell.

Overcharged Shot gets talked about because there are probably 4x the number of holosmiths than there are deadeye in ranked. Heck the number of deadeyes can play the build consistently at plat 2 or higher is probably 2 on NA and 2 on EU. And even then yeah, Binding Shadows should be changed in the future.

Bulls Charge and Shield Bash and Boulder and Dash all have massive, massive tells. Good Spellbreakers were landing them and killing people even with very clear 0.75-1s cast times on all of them. Overcharged shot either removing your stab before the attack or getting a cast time with a noticeable wind up isn't going to dumpster holosmith or engineer going forward. This isn't like Anet is coding Overcharged Shot to secretly say "Never hits is always dodged" in the engine.

[Angeels.3269]

hahahahahaha

imagine complaining about a class thats dead

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"AngelsShadow.7360" said:hahahahahaha

imagine complaining about a class thats dead

Ummm holosmith is dead? There's 2 on most teams I've seen in ranked and unranked. Don't think their quite dead lol

[thijsken.5031]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"AngelsShadow.7360" said:hahahahahaha

imagine complaining about a class thats dead

Ummm holosmith is dead? There's 2 on most teams I've seen in ranked and unranked. Don't think their quite dead lol

haha bro so true, i'm around gold and i'm at least vs 1 holo per game. It's so aids, all they do is cc lock me and oneshot me from stealth. I can't even 1v1 them on my mirage cuz of how broken they are, they just continue to oneshot my clones and prevent me from setting up a burst.

[mortrialus.3062]

@"AngelsShadow.7360" said:hahahahahaha

imagine complaining about a class thats dead

I look forward to watching your stream and seeing you tumble from Plat whatever down to bronze one since it's apparently so dead.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"AngelsShadow.7360" said:hahahahahaha

imagine complaining about a class thats dead

Ah, the wounded gazelle.I haven't seen one of those since bunker chrono.

[Undo.5091]

@thijsken.5031 said:haha bro so true, i'm around gold and i'm at least vs 1 holo per game. It's so aids, all they do is cc lock me and oneshot me from stealth. I can't even 1v1 them on my mirage cuz of how broken they are, they just continue to oneshot my clones and prevent me from setting up a burst.

Finally someone truly understands. I hate when they moa and immob me from stealth so they can laser me. There’s like no counterplay on my rev even when I have a fb support. Forge and rifle needs the rampage treatment.

[Flandre.2870]

xxxxxxxxxx

[Hederrain.9207]

rampage nerf it pls. masses want to be happy

[Sindrener.1592]

yikes this guy

[Ouk.5914]

@bluri.2653 said:yikes this guy

:#

Nerf Rifle 2-3-4 please!

[Foshizle.9802]

Omg yes, so tired of seeing top 25 players being holo mains. And last patch weapon swapping (ooc) was introduced! I think holo should lose the belt skills in exchange for this, too versatile at the moment. Also put a cast time on holo transformation so I can interrupt it, it's impossible to counter this at the moment too, thank you!

[Zephoid.4263]

Agree on stealth nerf. Why does engy have stealth? Why is it a toolbelt skill that is superior to almost every other stealth skill in this game? Why is the cooldown so low? There needs to be something done here. I'm really tired of stealth->overcharged shot-> forge-> leap->corona burst. 'Just dodge the CC from stealth'.

Agreed on net shot. Why do we have any offensive 0 cast time weapon skills left in this game?

Agree on lock on. Tie the cooldowns together and its fine.

Everything else no. Heals with short cast times provide counterplay to burst. Almost no other class has a viable 1s heal, so why are we trying to nerf holo to have one? Increase the CD if anything. Some better animations would be nice, but the problem with holo isn't animations.

[Falan.1839]

@Foshizle.9802 said:Omg yes, so tired of seeing top 25 players being holo mains. And last patch weapon swapping (ooc) was introduced! I think holo should lose the belt skills in exchange for this, too versatile at the moment. Also put a cast time on holo transformation so I can interrupt it, it's impossible to counter this at the moment too, thank you!

The weapon swap doesn't even work in PvP matches......

[apharma.3741]

@bluri.2653 said:yikes this guy

*buff teef

[Foshizle.9802]

@Falan.1839 said:

@"Foshizle.9802" said:Omg yes, so tired of seeing top 25 players being holo mains. And last patch weapon swapping (ooc) was introduced! I think holo should lose the belt skills in exchange for this, too versatile at the moment. Also put a cast time on holo transformation so I can interrupt it, it's impossible to counter this at the moment too, thank you!

The weapon swap doesn't even work in PvP matches......

It works on the warm up phase so you can still play some mind games on your opponent...Before: "He's gona play rifle, I'll adapt "this" way"....Now: "I have no f...lamingo clue what he's gona bring so I can't prepare".

It's just adding to the no-counterplay factor on holo, bring back balance!