Thief still hitting for 5k

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"appelflap.8310" said:I was a mesmer main since day 1 and im tired of thiefs still dominating in wvw roaming, so now i play thief myself.

I would suggest to just make a thief and play it, its way easier to play then mesmer have been

. I mean how can you die with 3 dodges, sig of agility, roll for initiative, withdraw and on top of that you can permastealth. Oh dont forget you heal, remove condis when you evade an attack. Get even more condi cleanse and healing when in stealth if you traited shadow arts wich all thiefs do anyways to get perma stealth. All this while backstabbing mesmers or zerk specs for 10-13k (sometimes even more) lol. Want an even easier time? Go play deadeye, even after patch this build is broken. There is a reason why you only see thieves in wvw roaming..

yet anet seems to dont care.

+1

(+1 shotting included...yes even after recent 'balance' patch)

-

current build variations included

-

-Bad Design Can Not Be Balanced-

Redesign Is The Only Way

I cringe at some of the play by the opponents in that video to be honest.

That last reaper may actually take the spot for the single worst reaper I've ever seen.

i never blame players but the profession itself. Thief Profession Toxic Design is to be blamed because a non-condition base profession shouldn't never outperform a pure condition base profession...reaper or not...Necromancer Profession is its base core.

it is like putting a bicycle against a motorcycle and having it outperform the motorcycle speed.....that would be unheard in a competitive scenery but in the world of Guild Wars 2 '

competitive

' scenery, Everything is true=possible!!

BAD DESIGN IS BAD DESIGN!!

---

-Necromancer Should Be The Strongest Condition Damage Dealer Profession In The Game Because That Is Their Root Core!!!!-

Nor Thief, Elementalist, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer Profession should ever be capable to resist their conditions

Guardian/Monk being the only Profession who is capable of cleaning all of Necromancer Professions conditions and Mesmer being the only Profession having the power to stop Necromancer conditions from ever casting

Restore Condition

'Removes all conditions. Removal effect: heals for 10...58...70 for each condition removed.'

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Restore_Condition

Blackout

'You can use this skill as an interrupt, since any skill being activated by the target when he is blacked out will fail at the end of the skill's activation time'

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blackout

Sooooo, you want to be unkillable vs 5/9 professions simply because you deal condi damage. Fair and balanced.

Incidentally, this reminds me of one of my favourite things to do in HoT, which was to troll condi reapers by condi bombing them on a trapper build then using take root (sylvari racial elite) to give myself invulnerability so the reaper couldn't transfer the condis back. They couldn't cleanse anything as reaper had terrible cleanse at the time, so they died horribly every time. Fair and balanced, right?

[Turk.5460]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"appelflap.8310" said:I was a mesmer main since day 1 and im tired of thiefs still dominating in wvw roaming, so now i play thief myself.

I would suggest to just make a thief and play it, its way easier to play then mesmer have been

. I mean how can you die with 3 dodges, sig of agility, roll for initiative, withdraw and on top of that you can permastealth. Oh dont forget you heal, remove condis when you evade an attack. Get even more condi cleanse and healing when in stealth if you traited shadow arts wich all thiefs do anyways to get perma stealth. All this while backstabbing mesmers or zerk specs for 10-13k (sometimes even more) lol. Want an even easier time? Go play deadeye, even after patch this build is broken. There is a reason why you only see thieves in wvw roaming..

yet anet seems to dont care.

+1

(+1 shotting included...yes even after recent 'balance' patch)

-

current build variations included

-

-Bad Design Can Not Be Balanced-

Redesign Is The Only Way

I cringe at some of the play by the opponents in that video to be honest.

That last reaper may actually take the spot for the single worst reaper I've ever seen.

i never blame players but the profession itself. Thief Profession Toxic Design is to be blamed because a non-condition base profession shouldn't never outperform a pure condition base profession...reaper or not...Necromancer Profession is its base core.

it is like putting a bicycle against a motorcycle and having it outperform the motorcycle speed.....that would be unheard in a competitive scenery but in the world of Guild Wars 2 '

competitive

' scenery, Everything is true=possible!!

BAD DESIGN IS BAD DESIGN!!

---

-Necromancer Should Be The Strongest Condition Damage Dealer Profession In The Game Because That Is Their Root Core!!!!-

Nor Thief, Elementalist, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer Profession should ever be capable to resist their conditions

Guardian/Monk being the only Profession who is capable of cleaning all of Necromancer Professions conditions and Mesmer being the only Profession having the power to stop Necromancer conditions from ever casting

Restore Condition

'Removes all conditions. Removal effect: heals for 10...58...70 for each condition removed.'

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Restore_Condition

Blackout

'You can use this skill as an interrupt, since any skill being activated by the target when he is blacked out will fail at the end of the skill's activation time'

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blackout

Sooooo, you want to be unkillable vs 5/9 professions simply because you deal condi damage. Fair and balanced.

Incidentally, this reminds me of one of my favourite things to do in HoT, which was to troll condi reapers by condi bombing them on a trapper build then using take root (sylvari racial elite) to give myself invulnerability so the reaper couldn't transfer the condis back. They couldn't cleanse anything as reaper had terrible cleanse at the time, so they died horribly every time. Fair and balanced, right?

Why are you still engaging him after all these years xD

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"appelflap.8310" said:I was a mesmer main since day 1 and im tired of thiefs still dominating in wvw roaming, so now i play thief myself.

I would suggest to just make a thief and play it, its way easier to play then mesmer have been

. I mean how can you die with 3 dodges, sig of agility, roll for initiative, withdraw and on top of that you can permastealth. Oh dont forget you heal, remove condis when you evade an attack. Get even more condi cleanse and healing when in stealth if you traited shadow arts wich all thiefs do anyways to get perma stealth. All this while backstabbing mesmers or zerk specs for 10-13k (sometimes even more) lol. Want an even easier time? Go play deadeye, even after patch this build is broken. There is a reason why you only see thieves in wvw roaming..

yet anet seems to dont care.

+1

(+1 shotting included...yes even after recent 'balance' patch)

-

current build variations included

-

-Bad Design Can Not Be Balanced-

Redesign Is The Only Way

I cringe at some of the play by the opponents in that video to be honest.

That last reaper may actually take the spot for the single worst reaper I've ever seen.

i never blame players but the profession itself. Thief Profession Toxic Design is to be blamed because a non-condition base profession shouldn't never outperform a pure condition base profession...reaper or not...Necromancer Profession is its base core.

it is like putting a bicycle against a motorcycle and having it outperform the motorcycle speed.....that would be unheard in a competitive scenery but in the world of Guild Wars 2 '

competitive

' scenery, Everything is true=possible!!

BAD DESIGN IS BAD DESIGN!!

---

-Necromancer Should Be The Strongest Condition Damage Dealer Profession In The Game Because That Is Their Root Core!!!!-

Nor Thief, Elementalist, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer Profession should ever be capable to resist their conditions

Guardian/Monk being the only Profession who is capable of cleaning all of Necromancer Professions conditions and Mesmer being the only Profession having the power to stop Necromancer conditions from ever casting

Restore Condition

'Removes all conditions. Removal effect: heals for 10...58...70 for each condition removed.'

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Restore_Condition

Blackout

'You can use this skill as an interrupt, since any skill being activated by the target when he is blacked out will fail at the end of the skill's activation time'

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blackout

Sooooo, you want to be unkillable vs 5/9 professions simply because you deal condi damage. Fair and balanced.

Incidentally, this reminds me of one of my favourite things to do in HoT, which was to troll condi reapers by condi bombing them on a trapper build then using take root (sylvari racial elite) to give myself invulnerability so the reaper couldn't transfer the condis back. They couldn't cleanse anything as reaper had terrible cleanse at the time, so they died horribly every time. Fair and balanced, right?

Why are you still engaging him after all these years xD

Boredom. Also it's fun to mess with people.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Yeah and mirages are doing 14+k bursts outa stealth, so what's ur point. I wish my DD backstab reliably did half that.

[briggah.7910]

thief has always hit hard. now we cry about getting hit for 5k? look if you die from a thief hop on your warclaw and run a different way to get back to your zerg. 90% of whiners are zerglings trying to get back to your zerg. you RARELY ever see a roamer crying about dying to any other class. scratch that you RARELY ever see a decent roamer crying about dying to any other class. bad ones cry about every thing. game mode is full of carebears that can't win every fight so they cry nerf

[DeceiverX.8361]

@rng.1024 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@rng.1024 said:Got hit by a 16,833 malicious backstab yesterday

That was rng Crit damage :).

Imo thief traits are the issue.

What, they get another dice to roll? :astonished:

I must admit though, I've been trying to see what can be done with zerker ele and sadly I get nowhere near those numbers while being very squishy.

But you are right, in order to achieve that dmg they have to go for some conditional traits over guaranteed ones. I'm suspecting crit strikes as the culprit given the modifiers you get when your target is above 75% health - sad thing is the only counter to that is toughness, and with a base health of 11645 I can now not kill anything (that doesn't mess up ALOT) with power running more tanky :anguished:

Even been fighting specs in sPvP that doesn't even bother to dodge, because they can outheal the zerker damage.

It's a strange time to play power.

It's more that MBS on capped malice has a 70% damage modifier and accounts for more than the entirety of all combined traits for a max damage build on thief. And since all modifiers are multiplicative, it's WAY more than just +70% in the end.

That's the perpetual problem with Deadeye and why ANet was so mistaken to nerf backstab's coefficient. Baseline backstab's coefficient was 2.4 or 1.2 frontal whereas a lot of other skills were well into the 3.0+ ranges after PoF (which is why we got these nerfs in the first place). MBS creates way bigger problems than backstab itself, because it creates huge variance issues and actively encourages sustained OOC stealth with the nature of Mark providing no mobility.

[UNOwen.7132]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@rng.1024 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@rng.1024 said:Got hit by a 16,833 malicious backstab yesterday

That was rng Crit damage :).

Imo thief traits are the issue.

What, they get another dice to roll? :astonished:

I must admit though, I've been trying to see what can be done with zerker ele and sadly I get nowhere near those numbers while being very squishy.

But you are right, in order to achieve that dmg they have to go for some conditional traits over guaranteed ones. I'm suspecting crit strikes as the culprit given the modifiers you get when your target is above 75% health - sad thing is the only counter to that is toughness, and with a base health of 11645 I can now not kill anything (that doesn't mess up ALOT) with power running more tanky :anguished:

Even been fighting specs in sPvP that doesn't even bother to dodge, because they can outheal the zerker damage.

It's a strange time to play power.

It's more that MBS on capped malice has a 70% damage modifier and accounts for more than the entirety of all combined traits for a max damage build on thief. And since all modifiers are multiplicative, it's WAY more than just +70% in the end.

That's the perpetual problem with Deadeye and why ANet was so mistaken to nerf backstab's coefficient. Baseline backstab's coefficient was 2.4 or 1.2 frontal whereas a lot of other skills were well into the 3.0+ ranges after PoF (which is why we got these nerfs in the first place). MBS creates way bigger problems than backstab itself, because it creates huge variance issues and actively encourages sustained OOC stealth with the nature of Mark providing no mobility.

Thing is, MBS doesnt actually ever hit 70% damage modifier. Because that means giving up the element of surprise entirely, and instead scrapping for a bit to stack up malice, while hoping that your glassy build doesnt just get exploded immediately.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Assassin signet was just nerfed or bug fixed no? Topic moot now

[jpsssss.7530]

its not the damage thats the issue, its the mobility and stealth capabilities that bother me...

[Invictorum.7643]

@jpsssss.7530 said:its not the damage thats the issue, its the mobility and stealth capabilities that bother me...

The mobility and stealth are how Thief survives in engagements. The general rule of thumb from even launch, is that the only time a thief isn't moving is when they're stomping, or they're dead.

[Klypto.1703]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Klypto.1703 said:There is one thing that makes people come up with these nerf thief, balance thief, rework thief, etc. Thief player is one that usually at the mercy of being greatly outnumbered and always forced to adapt to a situation. As per the person complaining they never adapt and they never learn anything except on how quickly anet caves in to their demands. I've killed players with this new meta that they are so tanky that I might can do like 2k damage to them with AA chain attack and if I backstab them I'll do something amusing like 300 damage and that as a malicious attack. So if you cannot survive with near or over 100% damage mitigation in this meta this just isn't the game for you.Thieves are favored in this state of the game because they can ignore counter attacks of targets that are tanky. So there is less risk for the reward than before. That's what I was talking about in my posting above.

You go either full glass to be able to pressure the thief, but then nothing changed for the thief compared to before the patch. He can still one- or two-shot. 15k DJ now, 25k DJ before the patch... it's still enough. If you gear for defense you will never be able to kill the thief because then your own burst can barely hit for 5k and he can play mindgames with you forever. The worst thing for him is that you outheal his damage. But no way that he might lose the fight.

Did you actually notice how much the damage of most burst skills was nerfed? Grave Digger: 3 to 5k critical hit - huge cast time and telegraph. A full Soul Spiral: 6 to 8k - over a 2s duration. These values are for marauder gear, which eats 15k DJs from range while being immobilized.

Thief bursts are exceptions that have to be looked at, just like some ranger skills. Both classes have tons of multipliers that break certain skills.

Yeah learn some game mechanics and such a thief cannot do these numbers not even with full berserker anymore. Everything got nerfed into the ground so most of your claims are baseless. Plus the overused phrase of tanky doesn't explain what is happening from majority view it means armor/toughness rating which does not change any survival for thief its why its meant to be a high risk/high reward. Although the thief retains its high risk in fact higher than ever before because you have the marked/detected/painted devices in which there aren't any consumables that disable other classes main mechanics. So a warrior burst attack that doesn't use CC will still one shot a thief. Is why people don't understand majority of the time what a thief is doing like right now life stealing damage/healing was so low that it wasn't seen as useful even though now that is changed because power damage is lower than life stealing damage. Then its standard damage mitigation that can be used by any class not just thief so you go and keep a thief revealed forever their train 33% damage reduction you end up making it harder to kill because you wasted supply to make your fight harder. So with protection boon of 33% and food with 10% you've got 76% damage reduction and then add in a rev or ele working with any class and you've then got an unkillable player doesn't matter if you heal or not because not taking damage means that you don't have to heal so its not out healing its just complete damage mitigation. So its very important that you actually know what you are talking about when complaining about a class because you seem to have the same problems but because you never learn from those experiences you end up in an endless cycle of complaining about a class having the ability to even play the game in the end.

[Mokk.2397]

5K critical doesn't seem that much. But that depends on what armor it's critical against and at what percentage of health the OP was at . With out those factors it's difficult to make an argument either way. Theirs always 2 sides of a coin .I main ranger and really don't find thief damage to be a real issue. The excessive stealth and auto evade crutch is a bigger issue.I find Mesmer far more over the top with the excessive clone spam and AOE pull.