Official; Finally rev gets it Greatsword!

[Kodama.6453]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:I think the most likely candidate for a Canthan legend (except Shiro, since he is already in the game) would be Togo, who has been a ritualist. So again, Ritualist just makes alot of sense for the Revenant elite spec with the ashes mechanic attached to it.

There also are Saint Viktor and the Luxon Saint (whose name I forgot), as well as those Celestial beings we fought in 'Closer to the Stars'.Vizu would also work as a Revenant Legend.And let's not forget about Mhenlo, who has deep ties to Cantha as well.

Vizu is thematically an assassin, I kinda doubt that they are giving us another assassin legend when Shiro already fills that niche.Saint Viktor and Archemorus (the Luxon guy) are possible, but I assume that we will get just 1 legend and I don't know if Anet would really decide for either the Luxon or the Kurzick legend. Just having one of these major factions represented would be kinda weird, personally I would pick something that is more neutral. Like Master Togo.

So yeah, Viktor and Archemorus are possible, but I consider Togo still to be more likely than them.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@Lily.1935 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Elric.4713 said:

@Elric.4713 said:Nice bait name, but we want Ritualist.

Ritualist is necromancer's. Don't touch it with your dervish spiritual successor hands.

Laughs with my

Champion Ritualist

title.

Don’t get started with Lily it’ll turn into 15 pages about why you’re supposedly wrong that revenant has any ties to ritualisf and that Necromancer is the true ritualist in gw2

Also yes Rit Rev ftw. Scepter + Focus please

Nice strawman. Too bad the real logs say differently. I'll link them later.

No need to link “the real logs” I’ve read literally all your posts on it over the years and don’t agree with your conclusions because you ignore/downplay certain aspects of revenant to support your claims. Things that you view as having less importance/weight are things that I generally think are more important.

And I don’t want to get into it with you again, but feel free to post whatever just know it’s not going to change my opinions on the topic so will be a waste of your time

You're mistaken. You do that with necromancer. I remember specifically someone denying that Necromancers even summon spirits in the lore. That was an absolutely dumb conversation.

That wasn’t me, but thanks for thinking of me

@""Lily.1935"GUYS! We could have an Eldrich Knight that shoots tentacles or pulls people into a black hole! Shred people through time and space! We could have them reveal truthes of the mists to foes causing madness! WHY OH WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO GIVE THAT UP FOR THE LIMITED SCOPE OF A SPIRIT SPAMMER!?!

I will give you this that something like you’re describing would be quite excellent. I unfortunately just don’t think it would be something they’ll do necessarily since all legends have been on previous lore. Though a “razah” or some other mist entity could fit the bill and be more interesting than Togo

[Lily.1935]

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Elric.4713 said:

@Elric.4713 said:Nice bait name, but we want Ritualist.

Ritualist is necromancer's. Don't touch it with your dervish spiritual successor hands.

Laughs with my

Champion Ritualist

title.

Don’t get started with Lily it’ll turn into 15 pages about why you’re supposedly wrong that revenant has any ties to ritualisf and that Necromancer is the true ritualist in gw2

Also yes Rit Rev ftw. Scepter + Focus please

Nice strawman. Too bad the real logs say differently. I'll link them later.

No need to link “the real logs” I’ve read literally all your posts on it over the years and don’t agree with your conclusions because you ignore/downplay certain aspects of revenant to support your claims. Things that you view as having less importance/weight are things that I generally think are more important.

And I don’t want to get into it with you again, but feel free to post whatever just know it’s not going to change my opinions on the topic so will be a waste of your time

You're mistaken. You do that with necromancer. I remember specifically someone denying that Necromancers even summon spirits in the lore. That was an absolutely dumb conversation.

That wasn’t me, but thanks for thinking of me

@""Lily.1935"GUYS! We could have an Eldrich Knight that shoots tentacles or pulls people into a black hole! Shred people through time and space! We could have them reveal truthes of the mists to foes causing madness! WHY OH WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO GIVE THAT UP FOR THE LIMITED SCOPE OF A SPIRIT SPAMMER!?!

I will give you this that something like you’re describing would be quite excellent. I unfortunately just don’t think it would be something they’ll do necessarily since all legends have been on previous lore. Though a “razah” or some other mist entity could fit the bill and be more interesting than Togo

The legend doesn't have to be dead for the Revenant to channel them. As long as they're in the mists. During the Story you channel Joko. He's undead but not fully dead. You channelled him even though he's not a spirit. You as a revenant are not limited to past heroes. And although most magic gas existed for hundreds of years according to the GW lore, shadow magic is just a weaker and more limited mist magic(sorta kinda), the revenant is a master of this mist magic. Which makes their flavor super cool. Revenant already uses most magic and rips reality in sunder. Their fissures and axe skills are pulling damage from other worlds in the mists. Visually and thematically the revenant is extremely distinct from other classes.

Although the necromancer can also connect to the mists and rip holes in it, they're not quite as good at it. They are only shown to be limited to the Underworld and realm of torment while revs have no such limitations.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@Lily.1935 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Elric.4713 said:

@Elric.4713 said:Nice bait name, but we want Ritualist.

Ritualist is necromancer's. Don't touch it with your dervish spiritual successor hands.

Laughs with my

Champion Ritualist

title.

Don’t get started with Lily it’ll turn into 15 pages about why you’re supposedly wrong that revenant has any ties to ritualisf and that Necromancer is the true ritualist in gw2

Also yes Rit Rev ftw. Scepter + Focus please

Nice strawman. Too bad the real logs say differently. I'll link them later.

No need to link “the real logs” I’ve read literally all your posts on it over the years and don’t agree with your conclusions because you ignore/downplay certain aspects of revenant to support your claims. Things that you view as having less importance/weight are things that I generally think are more important.

And I don’t want to get into it with you again, but feel free to post whatever just know it’s not going to change my opinions on the topic so will be a waste of your time

You're mistaken. You do that with necromancer. I remember specifically someone denying that Necromancers even summon spirits in the lore. That was an absolutely dumb conversation.

That wasn’t me, but thanks for thinking of me

@""Lily.1935"GUYS! We could have an Eldrich Knight that shoots tentacles or pulls people into a black hole! Shred people through time and space! We could have them reveal truthes of the mists to foes causing madness! WHY OH WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO GIVE THAT UP FOR THE LIMITED SCOPE OF A SPIRIT SPAMMER!?!

I will give you this that something like you’re describing would be quite excellent. I unfortunately just don’t think it would be something they’ll do necessarily since all legends have been on previous lore. Though a “razah” or some other mist entity could fit the bill and be more interesting than Togo

The legend doesn't have to be dead for the Revenant to channel them. As long as they're in the mists. During the Story you channel Joko. He's undead but not fully dead. You channelled him even though he's not a spirit. You as a revenant are not limited to past heroes. And although most magic gas existed for hundreds of years according to the GW lore, shadow magic is just a weaker and more limited mist magic(sorta kinda), the revenant is a master of this mist magic. Which makes their flavor super cool. Revenant already uses most magic and rips reality in sunder. Their fissures and axe skills are pulling damage from other worlds in the mists. Visually and thematically the revenant is extremely distinct from other classes.

Although the necromancer can also connect to the mists and rip holes in it, they're not quite as good at it. They are only shown to be limited to the Underworld and realm of torment while revs have no such limitations.

Oh absolutely agree. I just think Anet is unlikely to choose an alive legend from the present or the future and much more likely to stick with familiar/popular figures from the past (GW1) with bigger name recognition. All the legends so far besides Kalla have been that way and even Kalla is an important lore figure for anyone interested in Charr history.

[Lily.1935]

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Elric.4713 said:

@Elric.4713 said:Nice bait name, but we want Ritualist.

Ritualist is necromancer's. Don't touch it with your dervish spiritual successor hands.

Laughs with my

Champion Ritualist

title.

Don’t get started with Lily it’ll turn into 15 pages about why you’re supposedly wrong that revenant has any ties to ritualisf and that Necromancer is the true ritualist in gw2

Also yes Rit Rev ftw. Scepter + Focus please

Nice strawman. Too bad the real logs say differently. I'll link them later.

No need to link “the real logs” I’ve read literally all your posts on it over the years and don’t agree with your conclusions because you ignore/downplay certain aspects of revenant to support your claims. Things that you view as having less importance/weight are things that I generally think are more important.

And I don’t want to get into it with you again, but feel free to post whatever just know it’s not going to change my opinions on the topic so will be a waste of your time

You're mistaken. You do that with necromancer. I remember specifically someone denying that Necromancers even summon spirits in the lore. That was an absolutely dumb conversation.

That wasn’t me, but thanks for thinking of me

@""Lily.1935"GUYS! We could have an Eldrich Knight that shoots tentacles or pulls people into a black hole! Shred people through time and space! We could have them reveal truthes of the mists to foes causing madness! WHY OH WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO GIVE THAT UP FOR THE LIMITED SCOPE OF A SPIRIT SPAMMER!?!

I will give you this that something like you’re describing would be quite excellent. I unfortunately just don’t think it would be something they’ll do necessarily since all legends have been on previous lore. Though a “razah” or some other mist entity could fit the bill and be more interesting than Togo

The legend doesn't have to be dead for the Revenant to channel them. As long as they're in the mists. During the Story you channel Joko. He's undead but not fully dead. You channelled him even though he's not a spirit. You as a revenant are not limited to past heroes. And although most magic gas existed for hundreds of years according to the GW lore, shadow magic is just a weaker and more limited mist magic(sorta kinda), the revenant is a master of this mist magic. Which makes their flavor super cool. Revenant already uses most magic and rips reality in sunder. Their fissures and axe skills are pulling damage from other worlds in the mists. Visually and thematically the revenant is extremely distinct from other classes.

Although the necromancer can also connect to the mists and rip holes in it, they're not quite as good at it. They are only shown to be limited to the Underworld and realm of torment while revs have no such limitations.

Oh absolutely agree. I just think Anet is unlikely to choose an alive legend from the present or the future and much more likely to stick with familiar/popular figures from the past (GW1) with bigger name recognition. All the legends so far besides Kalla have been that way and even Kalla is an important lore figure for anyone interested in Charr history.

There are other lore figures in Cantha aside from Togo as well. one of the Dragon Emperors would be pretty interesting. I feel characters like Emperor Usoku or Minister Reiko Murakami would be far more interesting as legends even just going with the past. This would also be good as we haven't had a villainous Elite spec legend yet. At the moment across all legends we have Shiro and Mallyx. For Heros we've got Glint, Ventari, Jalis Ironhammer and Kalla. We should give some more villainous types some time to shine too. Especially considering just how important the Ministry of Purity will be for the upcoming expansion.

[Justine.6351]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:I'm sure what ever it is, it will have a root and/or a prolonged windup attack animation to ensure proper counterplay.

Lmao they will put a 1/4 second daze on all the skills and reduce its damage to 50 crits cause balance reasons. Well all except the auto attack, that will do like 6-7k per hit...

[Fueki.4753]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:I think the most likely candidate for a Canthan legend (except Shiro, since he is already in the game) would be Togo, who has been a ritualist. So again, Ritualist just makes alot of sense for the Revenant elite spec with the ashes mechanic attached to it.

There also are Saint Viktor and the Luxon Saint (whose name I forgot), as well as those Celestial beings we fought in 'Closer to the Stars'.Vizu would also work as a Revenant Legend.And let's not forget about Mhenlo, who has deep ties to Cantha as well.

Vizu is thematically an assassin, I kinda doubt that they are giving us another assassin legend when Shiro already fills that niche.Saint Viktor and Archemorus (the Luxon guy) are possible, but I assume that we will get just 1 legend and I don't know if Anet would really decide for either the Luxon or the Kurzick legend. Just having one of these major factions represented would be kinda weird, personally I would pick something that is more neutral. Like Master Togo.

So yeah, Viktor and Archemorus are possible, but I consider Togo still to be more likely than them.

But if we are looking at Luxon/Kurzick neutrality, than neither Togo nor Mhenlo would be viable, as they have been tied to those factions as well.And Vizu could be a more stealth-oriented Legend, compared to the mowing-down-enemies Shiro.

So far, all base Legends were male and all elite-spec Legends were female.

[Arkantos.7460]

I only hope that the new legend is versatile in skills and NOT like Kalla ....

[Elric.4713]

@"Lily.1935" said:"Channel legendary powers to slaughter foes and unleash chaos on the battlefield with our brand new profession: the revenant. Enter the field of battle heavily armored and equipped with the otherworldly powers of the Mists."

"Before there were humans or dwarves, before there were even worlds or the stars that light the night sky, there was but one thing in the universe—the Mists. The Mists touch all things. They are what binds the universe together, past, present, and future. They are the source of all good and evil, of all matter and knowledge. It is said that all forms of life, no matter how simple or complex, can trace their origins back to this one place."

GUYS! We could have an Eldrich Knight that shoots tentacles or pulls people into a black hole! Shred people through time and space! We could have them reveal truthes of the mists to foes causing madness! WHY OH WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO GIVE THAT UP FOR THE LIMITED SCOPE OF A SPIRIT SPAMMER!?!

Hey that Cosmic horror theme sounds kinda fun, maybe you should suggest it in the Necromancer section?

[Lonami.2987]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:I just hope we get a norn legend, as we don't have one once so ever.

Asgeir Dragonrender is perfect for a norn legend, but I don't think we'll be getting two elite specializations at once. So yeah, it's ritualist, meaning we'll get Master Togo or some unknown tengu character who happened to be a famous ritualist.

@Lily.1935 said:

@Elric.4713 said:Nice bait name, but we want Ritualist.

Ritualist is necromancer's. Don't touch it with your dervish spiritual successor hands.

Revenant is a direct successor (they even got the aesthetics), so good luck. And in any case, the guardians should be the ones getting it, since they were the successors in lore before HoT.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

@Elric.4713 said:Nice bait name, but we want Ritualist.

Ritualist is necromancer's. Don't touch it with your dervish spiritual successor hands.

There are mechanics from the ritualist which would make alot of sense for revenant. Like the ashes mechanic. Holding the ashes of dead heroes to channel effects makes more sense for the revenant than for the necromancer, imo, since revenants already do something similar by channeling the spirits of dead heroes for their stances.

This. Revenant ritualist would probably include a bundle mechanic tied to your active legend (the ashes), plus spirit turrets for the ritualist legend itself.

[Lonami.2987]

The ritualist legend is going to be either Master Togo or the unnamed tengu character who led the tengu back to Tyria and founded the Dominion of Winds.

Master Togo would be fun if it interacted with Shiro and they trolled each other, but aside from that, he's a pretty forgettable character with nothing special going on. Sadly, we already have precedent on Ventari and Kalla for "useless characters" that got the spotlight god knows why, when none of them had any special magic abilities going on.

Kalla shouldn't have happened, and we should have gotten either Olma (founder of the Olmakhan, sandshifter magic) or Bonfaaz Burntfur (Flame Legion general who invaded Ascalon and summoned the Searing, flame titan magic) as the charr character. I seriously don't know what the hell ArenaNet was thinking when they chose such a poor character.

Mallyx should have been either Varesh Ossa (Nigthfall villain) or Lord Jadoth (margonite leader and first follower of Abaddon), and Glint should have been Vissh Rakissh (forgotten leader) instead too, legends shouldn't be god-tier characters either, imo.

@Elric.4713 said:

@Ertrak.9506 said:

@Elric.4713 said:

@Ertrak.9506 said:GS with Aesgir Dragonrender please. Power Burst mid range spec please. I'd rather not end up hitting people over the head with a sceptre as we use weapons unconventionally anyways.

Real talk I actually dont think we'd actually get ritualist spec. Anet prefers to drastically change the playstyle with new elite specs and it would play too similar to renegade (stationary summons), as much as people like to pretend renegade doesn't exist.

What does Aesgir have to do with Cantha? If they decide to add e-specs with Icebrood Saga then fine, but we should get a Canthan legend when we go there.They did gave spirits to Renegade but Ritualist was more than that. My wish is that they focus on Channeling Magic with scepter/focus/warhorn or whatever and finally spice up our gameplay.

Has Anet literally ever given us a legend related to an expac...? Glint had no real relation to heart of thorns literally other than "the exalted once followed her" which didn't become relavent until ls4 when aurene hatched, and kalla is related to PoF...how exactly?

Im entirely unconvinced we'll have a legend directly tied to Cantha, especially when we already have Shiro.

Exactly that's why people dislike Kalla, that and her being a classical agenda character that took a spot of someone more fitting to Elona. Apart from the Druid the HOT one's were all over the place, but in POF they did a better job of tying them to the region.

I'm sorry, but PoF were a bunch of bad excuses.

Don't get me wrong, I want the new elite specializations to fit in with the new region, but PoF was far from a good job.

[draxynnic.3719]

Personally, despite the champion title, I'm quite sceptical of Revenant getting the Ritualist as an expansion 3 speculation.

First because, like it or not, Kalla already does spirit summoning. It might be a large part of the reason why renegade is what it is - ArenaNet wanted to give it a ritualist flavour without having a Canthan flavour, and ritualist magic was known to the charr in GW1, which when coupled with the fact that Rytlock is the first revenant and there was no charr legend, makes a charr legend a natural fit. Why is it Kalla rather than Olma or Bonfaaz? Probably because Rytlock was looking for a legend that his students would respect, rather than one they've never heard of or a Flame Imperator. When it comes to a third rev elite, it makes sense to do something new rather have a second go at a pseudo-ritualist. Revenant may draw on a similar power source, but they aren't ritualists any more than guardians are paragons.

Second, because ArenaNet seems to be holding tight to the lore that Revenant originated in Tyria (specifically, with Rytlock) and hasn't had the chance to spread to other lands until we're able to visit them ourselves. Pretty much every PoF elite specialisation had some tie to Elona apart from Renegade, why? Because there were no revenants in Elona before we arrived, or at least not long enough for a local tradition to have emerged. The other professions have all been around for long enough for local variants to develop, and those provide for elite specialisations - in the case of revenant, though, the profession itself is developing before our eyes. The same is likely true of Cantha - there won't have been the opportunity for a local revenant tradition to develop.

Personally, I think there's a good chance that the new rev elite will reflect events in Tyria since the start of PoF rather than Cantha. Could be Asgeir. Could even be Svanir, if ArenaNet decides it's time for another villain.

[ArthurDent.9538]

Question: what ties does Kalla have to Elona?Answer: noneJust because expansion is likely in Cantha doesn't mean the new espec/legend will necessarily be Canthan based.

[Lily.1935]

@Elric.4713 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:"Channel legendary powers to slaughter foes and unleash chaos on the battlefield with our brand new profession: the revenant. Enter the field of battle heavily armored and equipped with the otherworldly powers of the Mists."

"Before there were humans or dwarves, before there were even worlds or the stars that light the night sky, there was but one thing in the universe—the Mists. The Mists touch all things. They are what binds the universe together, past, present, and future. They are the source of all good and evil, of all matter and knowledge. It is said that all forms of life, no matter how simple or complex, can trace their origins back to this one place."

GUYS! We could have an Eldrich Knight that shoots tentacles or pulls people into a black hole! Shred people through time and space! We could have them reveal truthes of the mists to foes causing madness! WHY OH WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO GIVE THAT UP FOR THE LIMITED SCOPE OF A SPIRIT SPAMMER!?!

Hey that Cosmic horror theme sounds kinda fun, maybe you should suggest it in the Necromancer section?

The necromancer doesn't use Mist magic. They use death magic. They can't summor cosmic horrors or rip holes into reality like the Revenant can. You got to read the lore of the classes. Revenant is uses mist magic. Not necromancer. Both necromancer and ritualist use death magic specifically.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Rev is closer to dervish than ritualist imo

[Fueki.4753]

Lorewise, Revenant is completely different than both Ritualists and Dervishs though.Ritualists allegedly summon the very souls of Ancestors and are almost exclusively linked to Grenth worship.Dervish are praying to the gods, mostly Dwayna (with their wind prayers) and Melandru (with their Earth prayers) and receive their boons in return.Both are priesthoods exclusive to human god worship.

Revenant lore originally had them channel the memories of the Mists, but don't directly interact with the individual personalities themselves.However, Renegades summoning the Charr souls directly doesn't fit with the original lore.Nevertheless, Revenants powers aren't based on worship, so I wouldn't consider it anywhere close to Ritualists and Dervishs.

[Lily.1935]

@Fueki.4753 said:Lorewise, Revenant is completely different than both Ritualists and Dervishs though.Ritualists allegedly summon the very souls of Ancestors and are almost exclusively linked to Grenth worship.Dervish are praying to the gods, mostly Dwayna (with their wind prayers) and Melandru (with their Earth prayers) and receive their boons in return.Both are priesthoods exclusive to human god worship.

Revenant lore originally had them channel the memories of the Mists, but don't directly interact with the individual personalities themselves.However, Renegades summoning the Charr souls directly doesn't fit with the original lore.Nevertheless, Revenants powers aren't based on worship, so I wouldn't consider it anywhere close to Ritualists and Dervishs.

The dervish argument is more a mechanical one. Like, what would a dervish play like if they were translated over to guild wars 2? What were their mechanical themes? How did they function? it isn't a lore argument. Both Dervish and Revenant share some mechanical similarities. The Legendary stances change some of the functions of the Revenant, giving them new skills to play with use themed around that legend. The Dervish couldn't change their skills out when they transformed into their avatar form however the function of many of their skills and they themselves did physically change to match that of their gods. Grenth would grant you the ability to apply disease when you stripped a dervish enchantment from yourself and Balthazar would apply burning. While Melandru would cure a condition and Dwayna would heal you. Mechanically, the Dervish was quite simplistic in its design and couldn't achieve a full bar change like Revenant can in GW2. But we can start to see the mechanics of dervish being a precursor to what would come with the revenant.

Its honestly not just me and Scoob who think that either. It was arena net who pushed that idea with the Last living world season and the Fractal boss with High Priestess Amala. When she phases in the fight, she doesn't add a new skill to her forms, she completely changes them. It was quite the shocker and honestly extremely interesting and cool. It reminded me heavily of the Revenant and if we where to redesign GW1 with GW2 mechanics the dervish would very much be the Revenant's home class.

[Fueki.4753]

@Lily.1935 said:The dervish argument is more a mechanical one. Like, what would a dervish play like if they were translated over to guild wars 2? What were their mechanical themes? How did they function? it isn't a lore argument. Both Dervish and Revenant share some mechanical similarities. The Legendary stances change some of the functions of the Revenant, giving them new skills to play with use themed around that legend. The Dervish couldn't change their skills out when they transformed into their avatar form however the function of many of their skills and they themselves did physically change to match that of their gods. Grenth would grant you the ability to apply disease when you stripped a dervish enchantment from yourself and Balthazar would apply burning. While Melandru would cure a condition and Dwayna would heal you. Mechanically, the Dervish was quite simplistic in its design and couldn't achieve a full bar change like Revenant can in GW2. But we can start to see the mechanics of dervish being a precursor to what would come with the revenant.Its honestly not just me and Scoob who think that either. It was arena net who pushed that idea with the Last living world season and the Fractal boss with High Priestess Amala. When she phases in the fight, she doesn't add a new skill to her forms, she completely changes them. It was quite the shocker and honestly extremely interesting and cool. It reminded me heavily of the Revenant and if we where to redesign GW1 with GW2 mechanics the dervish would very much be the Revenant's home class.

This entire post feels like what bothers me about most people in regards to Dervish:Most people reduce the entire profession to that one Gimmick of the five Avatar Elite skills.five out of 15 Elite skills of out a total amount of 85 skills don't make up the whole profession.While I agree that the Legends of Revenants somewhat resemble the Dervish Avatars, clearly don't make up or majorly define Dervishs.I'd even consider Necro Shrouds and all the transformation skills distributed among Warrior, Necro and Elementalist, as well as the Guardian Tomes (both original and Firebrand) and the racials Reaper of Grenth and Avatar of Melandru closer to the Avatars than Revenant's Legends.

If I had to translate Dervish into GW2, it'd more a mix of Guardian and Elementalist than any other, since it already was something between Elementalist, non-heal monk and Elementalist.Your class mechanic (since sadly all classes in GW2 have to have one), would be enchantments.You would get 3 slots (damage affecting, defensive support, offensive support) for Enchantments (F1-3), with 5 different options for each. Only one slot can be chosen at a time, to passively pulse its effect.For skill categories it'd have Stances, Signets, Cantrips, and TouchesStances and Signets would be mixtures of offensive and defensive skills, as always.Cantrips would be primarily of defensive nature (like with Elementalist), while Touches would primarily function as point-blank CC (both soft and hard)

I'd give it the following Trait lines: Mysticism, Earth prayers, Wind Prayers, Martial Arts (yes, I'm missing one, but there isn't much to give Dervish as a full profession)Mysticism would, like in GW1, affect the Enchantments. The signet trait and traits for Scepter and focus would also be here.Earth Prayers would affect conditions and their damage (primarily Bleed) and defense (oh, hi again Elementalist). The Cantrip trait would be here.Wind Prayers (again, analogue to Elementalist's Air magic) would affect critical hits, and non-damaging conditions like Weakness and Chilled, as well as hard CC. Here you would find quite a touch ing trait.Martial Arts, as the name implies, affects the physical weapons and stances. Offensive boons like Might and Retaliation would also be traited here.

Weapons would be:Staff (Melee, applying Vulnerability) as an homage to ScythesAxe (both hands) pure melee damage without any conditionSword MH, condition weapon applying bleedDaggers (both hands) 600 range, applying bleed #5 is a 1200 range crippleTorch offhand, PBAoE causing burnScepter and focus, 1200 range and no conditions.Yes, no Greatsword. Guardians already have the Greatsword that feels uncannily close to Dervish Scythes. No need to make a carbon copy of that.

As you can see, I'm not one of those who think Dervish should be reduced to the Avatars.I didn't even use the Avatars all that much in GW1. I usually ran Reaper's Sweep or Wounding Strike.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Lily.1935 said:The necromancer doesn't use Mist magic. They use death magic. They can't summor cosmic horrors or rip holes into reality like the Revenant can. You got to read the lore of the classes. Revenant is uses mist magic. Not necromancer. Both necromancer and ritualist use death magic specifically.

@Fueki.4753 said:Lorewise, Revenant is completely different than both Ritualists and Dervishs though.Ritualists allegedly summon the very souls of Ancestors and are almost exclusively linked to Grenth worship.

Both of these are misconceptions.

Ritualists are associated with Grenth worship in about the same way Necromancers are - from a human's perspective their magic falls within Grenth's domain, but actually being a Grenth worshiper is required for neither. You can see this in Eye of the North - there are charr and norn ritualists. By contrast, ArenaNet was fairly careful about which enemies and NPCs they gave avatar forms to - if something is a dervish which uses an avatar elite, it's either human or something which is otherwise connected to the gods in some fashion.

However, it's not death magic. It's Mists magic. Both Ritualist and Revenant fundamentally operate by opening a channel to the Mists, contacting an entity within, and making use of its power. The distinction is that ritualists contact relatively weak entities, but can do so with multiple entities at once, causing them to manifest in the physical world or to cast some sort of spell across the veil. Revenants, by contrast, contact legendary entities (or, rather, their echoes) but channel their power through what is essentially a limited form of possession (albeit one where the revenant seems fully in control, although it's possible that can change if the revenant makes a mistake).

That said, we do know that a bit of ritualist magic has made it into other professions. Guardian is specifically called out in Sea of Sorrows, and necromancers have picked up some abilities that appear ritualist-like. In a GW2 context, I could definitely see a necromancer elite specialisation being ritualist-like, although its worthwhile noting that the presence of NPC paragons and dervishes in Elona did not translate to these professions being made playable, directly or as an elite specialisation.

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

This entire post feels like what bothers me about most people in regards to Dervish:Most people reduce the entire profession to that one Gimmick of the

five

Avatar Elite skills.

five

out of

15

Elite skills of out a total amount of

85

skills don't make up the whole profession.While I agree that the Legends of Revenants somewhat resemble the Dervish Avatars, clearly don't make up or majorly define Dervishs.I'd even consider Necro Shrouds and all the transformation skills distributed among Warrior, Necro and Elementalist, as well as the Guardian Tomes (both original and Firebrand) and the racials Reaper of Grenth and Avatar of Melandru closer to the Avatars than Revenant's Legends.

I think there's more to the dervish-revenant parallel than just avatars in playstyle.

For instance, one of the notable characteristics of the dervish was that it was essentially a PBAoE (Point Blank Area of Effect) specialist - while other professions certainly could act in this role, the dervish was built around it, with enchantments that involved PBAoE attacks, a basic attack which cleaved (which was novel to them in GW1), effects which meant they'd damage those around them, and both spells and attacks with an area effect. There is a degree of this to the revenant as well - mace is largely about area attacks, and even sword has a certain AoE focus with the end of the autoattack chain and the new Chilling Isolation (which still does more damage overall of there are three or more enemies to be hit). While Shiro is mostly mobility and single-target focused, Jalis and Mallyx each have a pulsing channeled PBAoE effect (Vengeful Hammers and Embrace the Darkness) and a skill that acts as an immediate area attack (Inspiring Reinforcement and Call to Anguish).

Another feature of dervish was that certain builds had a bit of a cadence to their playstyle. You'd build up a stack of enchantments, then use them as fuel to release a powerful offence (sometimes getting defensive benefits along the way as well, and usually splashing a lot of conditions around). Revenant can have much the same feel - the behaviour of herald facets, where the sustained effect of the facet is consumed for an immediate attack, is a pretty direct comparison, but even the process of shifting between modes of operation through legend-swapping is reminiscent of this, particularly if you combine it with invocation and corruption traits so that you're splashing out boons, conditions, and damage every time you swap.

Now, this isn't to say that revenant is the only thing reminiscent of the dervish in GW2. Reapers, for instance, are fairly unambiguously a GW2 necromancer take on the Grenth dervish.

[Fueki.4753]

@draxynnic.3719 said:one of the notable characteristics of the dervish was that it was essentially a PBAoE (Point Blank Area of Effect) specialistAnd the one profession GW2 that does PBAoE most and best is Guardian.Most Symbols are PBAoE, Sanctuary is a PBAoE Judge's Intervention and Merciful Intervention are PBAoE after the Teleport.The active effects of Virtue of Rseolve and Virtue of Courage are PBAoE.Technically, every weapon skill hitting multiple targets is PBAoE.Point is, that PBAoE characteristic doesn't translate well into GW2 as a profession characteristic, since every profession can do it.

Another feature of dervish was that certain builds had a bit of a cadence to their playstyle. You'd build up a stack of enchantments, then use them as fuel to release a powerful offence (sometimes getting defensive benefits along the way as well, and usually splashing a lot of conditions around).Revenant can have much the same feel - the behaviour of herald facets, where the sustained effect of the facet is consumed for an immediate attack, is a pretty direct comparisonYou know what else is a rather close comparison?Core Guardian virtues and the DH variants. You can have the sustained passive effects, or sacrifice them for a greater, non-sustained benefit.

but even the process of shifting between modes of operation through legend-swapping is reminiscent of this, particularly if you combine it with invocation and corruption traits so that you're splashing out boons, conditions, and damage every time you swap.You can also trait Virtues to vomit out benefits and detriments.

[draxynnic.3719]

Cough.

@draxynnic.3719 said:

Now, this isn't to say that revenant is the only thing reminiscent of the dervish in GW2. Reapers, for instance, are fairly unambiguously a GW2 necromancer take on the Grenth dervish.

Yeah, there are similarities in guardian as well, but I don't think guardian quite matches as well as revenant does. You can also find similarities in weaver, reaper (as mentioned), holosmith, spellbreaker (which borrows some skill names directly) and arguably even berserker.

Similarly, you can find similarities with ritualist in renegade, engineer, ranger, necromancer, elementalist (particularly after the recent change to Glyph of Lesser Elementals) and older versions of thief, mesmer, and guardian.

Yeah, there are quite a few things that can PBAoE in GW2. There were in GW1 as well! But I think the revenant does stand out as a profession that is particularly oriented towards it, particularly in the form of PBAoE that acts like an enchantment (such as Vengeful Hammers and Embrace the Darkness). Cleave is obviously no longer a weapon-specific thing, but revenant weapons are still particularly well suited to dealing with bunched-up enemies. Not exclusively so, but it's there.

The key part, though, is that revenant reproduces the feel of many dervish builds of having a certain ebb and flow to them. Guardian virtues don't achieve the same feel because even though they're a case of sacrificing a buff for an immediate effect, it's not a buff you've chosen to activate in the first place so you can discharge it later, it's not something you can do nearly as often. A herald can potentially throw out a lot of such effects and apart from the heal (and the elite in competitive modes) they all have fairly short recharges - for guardian, the only way you're getting multiple virtue activations in a short timespan is if you're running Radiance and scoring kills (which is more of an Assassin's Promise-esque style) or you use Renewed Focus.

That's just the most obvious example. Just the base mechanics, for instance, carry that feeling of flowing from one mode of operation to another as you swap between legends. How much of a difference this makes depends on your build, but it's definitely there in a way that it isn't with guardian.

[Fueki.4753]

@draxynnic.3719 said:The key part, though, is that revenant reproduces the feel of many dervish builds of having a certain ebb and flow to them. Guardian virtues don't achieve the same feel because even though they're a case of sacrificing a buff for an immediate effect, it's not a buff you've chosen to activate in the first place so you can discharge it later, it's not something you can do nearly as often.

This is highly subjective.You feel parts of Dervish in Revenant.I don't feel Dervish in anywhere in GW2.But then again, I don't feel any of the GW1 professions, in their direct GW2 counterparts either.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:The key part, though, is that revenant reproduces the

feel

of many dervish builds of having a certain ebb and flow to them. Guardian virtues don't achieve the same

feel

because even though they're a case of sacrificing a buff for an immediate effect, it's not a buff you've chosen to activate in the first place so you can discharge it later, it's not something you can do nearly as often.

This is highly subjective.

You

feel

parts of Dervish in Revenant.

I

don't

feel

Dervish in anywhere in GW2.But then again, I don't

feel

any of the GW1 professions, in their direct GW2 counterparts either.

Well, if you don't see any of the parallels even in the direct counterparts, then it's a bit odd to jump into the conversation trying to claim that one thing parallels to another in the first place.

Now, clearly, with the changes to mechanics, nothing's going to be a direct conversion and GW2 professions are much less specialised than their GW1 equivalents,, but there are certain playstyle elements that do carry over. It was a common consensus before HoT that the dervish playstyle wasn't present in the core professions - there were things that were certainly arguably dervish-like, such as the guardian virtues you mentioned, but it was all just an element or two, nothing that really brought it together. Healers were accepted to be gone, and pure interrupt builds like some old mesmer, but it was generally considered that the dervish playstyle could be made to work in GW2 but hadn't been (although guardian was viewed as the closest).

Revenant and reaper pretty much put paid to that.

[draxynnic.3719]

Considering that this has essentially become a general "possible revenant elite specialisations" thread...

What about one of the Envoys as a possible legend? All of the legends we currently have are from GW1 or from more recent history (Kalla). The Envoys, however, are said to have had similar statuses and crimes to Shiro in life, which suggests that each of those has a story behind them which could be expanded into a legend (and, in fact, such a legend could be a means of adding backstory that we might not otherwise see). Courier Torivos might be particularly fitting, since he appears to be minotaur-like in nature, and therefore might avoid being a legend who is a human with a regular profession, while having the potential to wield double axes.

Mind you, I still think there's a good chance that the revenant elite won't necessarily link to Cantha.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

Anyways, as people have already stated above, we have a Cantha legend already. Let’s go with Norn and GS, utilizes be animal spirit transforms, ala Norn racial transforms, that alter procs for our weapon, like the trident. If using a GS, you get double procs.

That dips too much into being a Norn spec than a Revenant Spec.Revenants channel Legends, not races.

There are some legendary Norn heroes who aren't known to transform, Jora for example lost her transformation ability.

It would be also extremely awkward Legend design because in the end it wouldn't be channeling the Norn Legend themselves, rather the Revenant would be channeling Bear/Wolf/Raven instead.

Imo channeling a Norn legend is fine, but it should avoid trying to channel the Spirits of the Wild.

How about svanir? You could litterally become the nornbear. No one says our legends have to be good people, infact Id rather them not give us a single hero going forward and have us get villians as shiro and mallyx are the only baddies we channel right now. You can have legendary evil figures, several come to mind and I believe Svanir with a madness and corruption mechanic where you gradually descend into the norn-bear and become a monster would be both thematic and cool.

I mean we could go with asgeir as he was blessed by all the champions and 1 v 3'd a dragon and its champions, killed one and injured the other two but I Feel like they would make him more based around channeling the spirits due to him literally pulling power from him. Either way you slice it if a norn legend is made it will have something to do with the spirits of the wild, and honestly Id rather them not do Jora. Jora for all she was in my opinion is not someone we should channel as a legend for our rev's she had no unique power outside of being a very powerful warrior. And we have something like that already with shiro, plus her iconic weapons are sword and shield which we already have.

Id rather them go with a character un-related to our heroes from guild wars 1, only because in all honesty... why channel them? Most were unremarkable and only accomplished their deeds due to us the player. So Im hoping for Asgeir or Svanir. ...

Though if they paired Svanir WITH JORA, and we had jora when we were sane and free of corruption and svanir when we began delving into madness with the two constantly arguing and fighting for control? That could be cool. A bit much and I doubt it will end up well in a build sense, but cool... But I honestly just want a darker and less friendly legend. Something evil and something to sate my edge-lord needs.... we've had too many good guys of late... Lets get dark.