Condi is overtuned

Bladestrom.6425 · March 19, 2020

@Chorazin.4107 said:I think it is more the compounding nature of condis. You get 1 bunker condi it is not too bad to deal with. A whole team of them and it is kitten nuts in any team fight. a couple of seconds and you are covered in every condi in existence if the condi train has you targeted.

Its the old confirmation bias, if a whole power team has you targeted you would instapop

NorthernRedStar.3054 · March 19, 2020

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:
@Chorazin.4107 said:I think it is more the compounding nature of condis. You get 1 bunker condi it is not too bad to deal with. A whole team of them and it is kitten nuts in any team fight. a couple of seconds and you are covered in every condi in existence if the condi train has you targeted.

Its the old confirmation bias, if a whole power team has you targeted you would instapop

And if a whole condi team decides to do the same, I'm sure you'll survive, right?

Brimstone Jack.3462 · March 19, 2020

I've come to the realization that in these "nerf this" threads, the answer is pretty much always that the OP has problems beating a build with their favorite profession. This freaks out their ego, because the problem couldn't POSSIBLY mean they should adjust their playstyle. They treat any need to adjust their playstyle as a game-breaking attempt to stifle their perceived supremacy. Then they throw a temper tantrum.

Downstate.4697 · March 19, 2020

Dunno I had 18 burn stacks transferred to me and I died in 1 second

Brimstone Jack.3462 · March 19, 2020

@FrownyClown.8402 said:Dunno I had 18 burn stacks transferred to me and I died in 1 secondUnless that's how the match STARTED, that's all on your own cleansing failure, I'd say. But no, you built up that much burning on a target you KNOW has this mechanic, didn't finish them off, stayed close to them, and then got slapped for it.

Downstate.4697 · March 19, 2020

@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:
@FrownyClown.8402 said:Dunno I had 18 burn stacks transferred to me and I died in 1 secondUnless that's how the match STARTED, that's all on your own cleansing failure, I'd say. But no, you built up that much burning on a target you KNOW has this mechanic, didn't finish them off, stayed close to them, and then got slapped for it.

I was support tempest and went tornado =(

Brimstone Jack.3462 · March 19, 2020

@FrownyClown.8402 said:
@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:
@FrownyClown.8402 said:Dunno I had 18 burn stacks transferred to me and I died in 1 secondUnless that's how the match STARTED, that's all on your own cleansing failure, I'd say. But no, you built up that much burning on a target you KNOW has this mechanic, didn't finish them off, stayed close to them, and then got slapped for it.

I was support tempest and went tornado =(

Still doesn't sound like the opponent's problem...

AliamRationem.5172 · March 19, 2020

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
@vesica tempestas.1563 said:
@Chorazin.4107 said:I think it is more the compounding nature of condis. You get 1 bunker condi it is not too bad to deal with. A whole team of them and it is kitten nuts in any team fight. a couple of seconds and you are covered in every condi in existence if the condi train has you targeted.

Its the old confirmation bias, if a whole power team has you targeted you would instapop

And if a whole condi team decides to do the same, I'm sure you'll survive, right?

Why should you survive when focused by the entire enemy team?

I'm sorry, but I see no indication that condi is dominating the meta. Condi rev. That's about the only one that comes up as a straight OP build. Burn guards can put out sick damage, but I don't see anyone playing them. Fire weavers are still great for damage and sustain, but seem to have less impact than the shock tempest build many players are now running. I just don't see a ton of weavers either. Necros, of course. But the problem with them seems less to do with condi damage output and more to do with their sustain. In fact, I think a lot of the necros I am seeing now are running power, not condi.

Who else is running condi? Mirage? Yeah, that's a winner...

Just not seeing the problem with condi here.

Brimstone Jack.3462 · March 19, 2020

@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
@vesica tempestas.1563 said:
@Chorazin.4107 said:I think it is more the compounding nature of condis. You get 1 bunker condi it is not too bad to deal with. A whole team of them and it is kitten nuts in any team fight. a couple of seconds and you are covered in every condi in existence if the condi train has you targeted.

Its the old confirmation bias, if a whole power team has you targeted you would instapop

And if a whole condi team decides to do the same, I'm sure you'll survive, right?

Why should you survive when focused by the entire enemy team?

I'm sorry, but I see no indication that condi is dominating the meta. Condi rev. That's about the only one that comes up as a straight OP build. Burn guards can put out sick damage, but I don't see anyone playing them. Fire weavers are still great for damage and sustain, but seem to have less impact than the shock tempest build many players are now running. I just don't see a ton of weavers either. Necros, of course. But the problem with them seems less to do with condi damage output and more to do with their sustain. In fact, I think a lot of the necros I am seeing now are running power, not condi.

Who else is running condi? Mirage? Yeah, that's a winner...

Just not seeing the problem with condi here.

I personally run a power-heavy hybrid core necro.

Bladestrom.6425 · March 20, 2020

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
@vesica tempestas.1563 said:
@Chorazin.4107 said:I think it is more the compounding nature of condis. You get 1 bunker condi it is not too bad to deal with. A whole team of them and it is kitten nuts in any team fight. a couple of seconds and you are covered in every condi in existence if the condi train has you targeted.

Its the old confirmation bias, if a whole power team has you targeted you would instapop

And if a whole condi team decides to do the same, I'm sure you'll survive, right?

Same result, that's kinda the point.

Luthan.5236 · March 22, 2020

I'd say it is a big deal. But yeah there are condition removals. Then again ... not every class has easy access to them and there is still CC to deal with. Random queue 2 vs. 2 is a joke because of this. (You'd need to change build according to the enemy - which is possible in between matches. But clicking around to change the build is not fun. Maybe they sell more template slots now? :D )

5 vs. 5 it is okay. You can just stay with your own build to counter CC and with less condi remove as long as the team is balanced somehow. Just don't run into 1 vs. 1 towards the enemy that seem strong against you.

Tayga.3192 · March 22, 2020

@Luthan.5236 said:(You'd need to change build according to the enemy - which is possible in between matches. But clicking around to change the build is not fun. Maybe they sell more template slots now? :D )

You can change your build even if it looks locked, without templates.

UNOwen.7132 · March 22, 2020

@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
@vesica tempestas.1563 said:
@Chorazin.4107 said:I think it is more the compounding nature of condis. You get 1 bunker condi it is not too bad to deal with. A whole team of them and it is kitten nuts in any team fight. a couple of seconds and you are covered in every condi in existence if the condi train has you targeted.

Its the old confirmation bias, if a whole power team has you targeted you would instapop

And if a whole condi team decides to do the same, I'm sure you'll survive, right?

Why should you survive when focused by the entire enemy team?

I'm sorry, but I see no indication that condi is dominating the meta. Condi rev. That's about the only one that comes up as a straight OP build. Burn guards can put out sick damage, but I don't see anyone playing them. Fire weavers are still great for damage and sustain, but seem to have less impact than the shock tempest build many players are now running. I just don't see a ton of weavers either. Necros, of course. But the problem with them seems less to do with condi damage output and more to do with their sustain. In fact, I think a lot of the necros I am seeing now are running power, not condi.

Who else is running condi? Mirage? Yeah, that's a winner...

Just not seeing the problem with condi here.

Classes are roughly split into 3 categories. Bunkers, like Engineers (holosmith or scrapper), half of Rangers, half of Necros. CC-spam builds, like Warriors, whose effectiveness is basically entirely reliant on endless CC and a lack of stability. And indeed, condi builds. Condi rev is op, but the truth is that all good builds that dont fall into the former 2 categories fall into this one. Pretty much every class is going condi. Ranger is, Rev is, Guardian is, Necro is, Ele is, even bloody Thief is running condi now. Condi is significantly overtuned and as a result the only classes still running power are the ones that simply dont have a viable way of playing condi. Which is to say, Engineer and Warrior.

Axl.8924 · March 22, 2020

@UNOwen.7132 said:
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
@vesica tempestas.1563 said:
@Chorazin.4107 said:I think it is more the compounding nature of condis. You get 1 bunker condi it is not too bad to deal with. A whole team of them and it is kitten nuts in any team fight. a couple of seconds and you are covered in every condi in existence if the condi train has you targeted.

Its the old confirmation bias, if a whole power team has you targeted you would instapop

And if a whole condi team decides to do the same, I'm sure you'll survive, right?

Why should you survive when focused by the entire enemy team?

I'm sorry, but I see no indication that condi is dominating the meta. Condi rev. That's about the only one that comes up as a straight OP build. Burn guards can put out sick damage, but I don't see anyone playing them. Fire weavers are still great for damage and sustain, but seem to have less impact than the shock tempest build many players are now running. I just don't see a ton of weavers either. Necros, of course. But the problem with them seems less to do with condi damage output and more to do with their sustain. In fact, I think a lot of the necros I am seeing now are running power, not condi.

Who else is running condi? Mirage? Yeah, that's a winner...

Just not seeing the problem with condi here.

Classes are roughly split into 3 categories. Bunkers, like Engineers (holosmith or scrapper), half of Rangers, half of Necros. CC-spam builds, like Warriors, whose effectiveness is basically entirely reliant on endless CC and a lack of stability. And indeed, condi builds. Condi rev is op, but the truth is that all good builds that dont fall into the former 2 categories fall into this one. Pretty much every class is going condi. Ranger is, Rev is, Guardian is, Necro is, Ele is, even bloody

Thief

is running condi now. Condi is significantly overturned and as a result, the only classes still running power are the ones that simply dont have a viable way of playing condi. Which is to say, Engineer and Warrior.

Core nec goes power a lot, mainly cause it got pretty neutered hard in condi.

boon corrupt itself cannot compete at this moment, because it got nerfed really hard.

UNOwen.7132 · March 22, 2020

@Axl.8924 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
@vesica tempestas.1563 said:
@Chorazin.4107 said:I think it is more the compounding nature of condis. You get 1 bunker condi it is not too bad to deal with. A whole team of them and it is kitten nuts in any team fight. a couple of seconds and you are covered in every condi in existence if the condi train has you targeted.

Its the old confirmation bias, if a whole power team has you targeted you would instapop

And if a whole condi team decides to do the same, I'm sure you'll survive, right?

Why should you survive when focused by the entire enemy team?

I'm sorry, but I see no indication that condi is dominating the meta. Condi rev. That's about the only one that comes up as a straight OP build. Burn guards can put out sick damage, but I don't see anyone playing them. Fire weavers are still great for damage and sustain, but seem to have less impact than the shock tempest build many players are now running. I just don't see a ton of weavers either. Necros, of course. But the problem with them seems less to do with condi damage output and more to do with their sustain. In fact, I think a lot of the necros I am seeing now are running power, not condi.

Who else is running condi? Mirage? Yeah, that's a winner...

Just not seeing the problem with condi here.

Classes are roughly split into 3 categories. Bunkers, like Engineers (holosmith or scrapper), half of Rangers, half of Necros. CC-spam builds, like Warriors, whose effectiveness is basically entirely reliant on endless CC and a lack of stability. And indeed, condi builds. Condi rev is op, but the truth is that all good builds that dont fall into the former 2 categories fall into this one. Pretty much every class is going condi. Ranger is, Rev is, Guardian is, Necro is, Ele is, even bloody

Thief

is running condi now. Condi is significantly overturned and as a result, the only classes still running power are the ones that simply dont have a viable way of playing condi. Which is to say, Engineer and Warrior.

Core nec goes power a lot, mainly cause it got pretty neutered hard in condi.

boon corrupt itself cannot compete at this moment, because it got nerfed really hard.

Core Nec is either a bunker build which doesnt really do much damage (that one is split between power or condi), or full condi. There are no full power Necro builds. Same story for all non-Engineer and Warrior professions. And those 2 only arent playing condi because they dont really have the option. Engineers only condi build was surprisingly the only condi build really significantly nerfed, and it was nerfed to hell, while Warrior simply never really had the option.

At this point the only way to get non-bunker power back as an option is to nerf condi like power was nerfed. I would suggest the same 33% slash accross the board, and if something ends up underperforming, just buff it up.

Axl.8924 · March 22, 2020

@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
@vesica tempestas.1563 said:
@Chorazin.4107 said:I think it is more the compounding nature of condis. You get 1 bunker condi it is not too bad to deal with. A whole team of them and it is kitten nuts in any team fight. a couple of seconds and you are covered in every condi in existence if the condi train has you targeted.

Its the old confirmation bias, if a whole power team has you targeted you would instapop

And if a whole condi team decides to do the same, I'm sure you'll survive, right?

Why should you survive when focused by the entire enemy team?

I'm sorry, but I see no indication that condi is dominating the meta. Condi rev. That's about the only one that comes up as a straight OP build. Burn guards can put out sick damage, but I don't see anyone playing them. Fire weavers are still great for damage and sustain, but seem to have less impact than the shock tempest build many players are now running. I just don't see a ton of weavers either. Necros, of course. But the problem with them seems less to do with condi damage output and more to do with their sustain. In fact, I think a lot of the necros I am seeing now are running power, not condi.

Who else is running condi? Mirage? Yeah, that's a winner...

Just not seeing the problem with condi here.

Classes are roughly split into 3 categories. Bunkers, like Engineers (holosmith or scrapper), half of Rangers, half of Necros. CC-spam builds, like Warriors, whose effectiveness is basically entirely reliant on endless CC and a lack of stability. And indeed, condi builds. Condi rev is op, but the truth is that all good builds that dont fall into the former 2 categories fall into this one. Pretty much every class is going condi. Ranger is, Rev is, Guardian is, Necro is, Ele is, even bloody

Thief

is running condi now. Condi is significantly overturned and as a result, the only classes still running power are the ones that simply dont have a viable way of playing condi. Which is to say, Engineer and Warrior.

Core nec goes power a lot, mainly cause it got pretty neutered hard in condi.

boon corrupt itself cannot compete at this moment, because it got nerfed really hard.

Core Nec is either a bunker build which doesnt really do much damage (that one is split between power or condi), or full condi. There are no full power Necro builds. Same story for all non-Engineer and Warrior professions. And those 2 only arent playing condi because they dont really have the option. Engineers only condi build was surprisingly the only condi build really significantly nerfed, and it was nerfed to hell, while Warrior simply never really had the option.

At this point the only way to get non-bunker power back as an option is to nerf condi like power was nerfed. I would suggest the same 33% slash accross the board, and if something ends up underperforming, just buff it up.

Lich shroud has lots of power implements axe is power too. power can still do decent dmg for power necro core, since lich still hurts.

Condi necro is way more limited than other classes since applications of condis such as burn.

Guard can apply tons of burns and mes not sure how it is now but mirage was applying way more condis than necro could on its own without boon corrupt and right now boon corrupt can't keep up, hence why power is dominant for necro with the sustain to survive.

Boon corrupt was one of the things that helped push necro condi up a lot, but with the nerfs its very apparent how condis are really bad without those boon corrupts we had..

Reaper hits really hard with power, so there is that, though hybrid power condi does help since you can apply some conditions

UNOwen.7132 · March 22, 2020

@Axl.8924 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
@vesica tempestas.1563 said:
@Chorazin.4107 said:I think it is more the compounding nature of condis. You get 1 bunker condi it is not too bad to deal with. A whole team of them and it is kitten nuts in any team fight. a couple of seconds and you are covered in every condi in existence if the condi train has you targeted.