Core ranger pets and other issues

[Erazik.7059]

The meta is disgusting. Ranger itself is weak but tiger and birds are so goddamn broken that it doesn't matter how good u are, how many mistakes u make, just run around and let pet do the work for u. It's even worse than the meta before the big patch. Would be really nice if we shift some of the pet's power into ranger itself so it actually matters how u playThe game has become cc spamblind fields need to have their radius reducedcore necro and guard sustain need to be heavily nerfedburn guard is broken and all condi specs in general tooherald's heal skill infuse light is busted too need cd increaseLong story short: game is a mess atm

[Tayga.3192]

tbh daggers need a bit of buffing, at the same patch where pets get lower damage.

[Tazer.2157]

@"Erazik.7059" said:Would be really nice if we shift some of the pet's power into ranger itself so it actually matters how u play

That was the soulbeast spec before the big so called lazy "tradeoff". Now have fun with a class that is a snoozefest. A better tradeoff would be to keep the two pets, ticks that reduce the rangers stats periodically while being unmerged. Merge would increase stats for a short while and grant boons depending on pet (fury boon for ferocious pet, protection for tanky pet, etc) before the stats begin to drop off again. The gameplay would then be similar to a holosmith where you would have to swap pets, merge, unmerge to get boons and to keep stats high. This would be better than the current meta of easy trap placement, axe 2 bleed, ridiculous pet revival from merge.

[Tharan.9085]

@Tazer.2157 said:

@"Erazik.7059" said:Would be really nice if we shift some of the pet's power into ranger itself so it actually matters how u play

That was the soulbeast spec before the big so called lazy "tradeoff". Now have fun with a class that is a snoozefest. A better tradeoff would be to keep the two pets, ticks that reduce the rangers stats periodically while being unmerged. Merge would increase stats for a short while and grant boons depending on pet (fury boon for ferocious pet, protection for tanky pet, etc) before the stats begin to drop off again. The gameplay would then be similar to a holosmith where you would have to swap pets, merge, unmerge to get boons and to keep stats high. This would be better than the current meta of easy trap placement, axe 2 bleed, ridiculous pet revival from merge.

That still wouldnt solve the core problem tho

[Eurantien.4632]

Pet damage might need a slight shave. As is, core ranger is simply buffing the pet damage and people have 0 idea how to dodge pet skills or to kite the pet. People who actually know the way pets work and move never get hit.

This is a HUGE l2p issue imo.

But the REAL problem is that if pet damage is shaved (or even if its not shaved) pets need a defensive buff. Against core ranger people should be killing the squishy dps pets. The thing is in a lot of 1v1s (not to mention bigger fights) pets will just die on their own due to AoE and cleave. These pets that do "too much damage" have 16k hp and 1.6k armor, THAT IS 500 ARMOR LESS THAN ZERKER. These pets cannot dodge, they do not react fast to being recalled with F3. They will die eventually no matter how good the ranger is at healing the pet, giving the pet protection, or recalling it from damage.

[Downstate.4697]

I've never once taken a 7k crit from a pet. I've seen only a couple rangers in gold 3. They aren't that oppressive if you know how to avoid their damage.

Blind field is fine. It's a great cc spam counter on point.

Guard is fine except firebrand. Burn guard builds only good cuz burn is too strong.

Necro I agree.

Infuse light needs a minor shave.

Game is not a mess imo

[Axl.8924]

@"Eurantien.4632" said:Pet damage might need a slight shave. As is, core ranger is simply buffing the pet damage and people have 0 idea how to dodge pet skills or to kite the pet. People who actually know the way pets work and move never get hit.

This is a HUGE l2p issue imo.

But the REAL problem is that if pet damage is shaved (or even if its not shaved) pets need a defensive buff. Against core ranger people should be killing the squishy dps pets. The thing is in a lot of 1v1s (not to mention bigger fights) pets will just die on their own due to AoE and cleave. These pets that do "too much damage" have 16k hp and 1.6k armor, THAT IS 500 ARMOR LESS THAN ZERKER. These pets cannot dodge, they do not react fast to being recalled with F3. They will die eventually no matter how good the ranger is at healing the pet, giving the pet protection, or recalling it from damage.

Ranger pet dies really fast anyways.

A few hits from reaper gs and pet is dead and useless, and so much so that i often have to hold back from using pet so it can be useful. Pet often becomes a problem and a huge liability.

[Stallic.2397]

@"Eurantien.4632" said:Pet damage might need a slight shave. As is, core ranger is simply buffing the pet damage and people have 0 idea how to dodge pet skills or to kite the pet. People who actually know the way pets work and move never get hit.

This is a HUGE l2p issue imo.

But the REAL problem is that if pet damage is shaved (or even if its not shaved) pets need a defensive buff. Against core ranger people should be killing the squishy dps pets. The thing is in a lot of 1v1s (not to mention bigger fights) pets will just die on their own due to AoE and cleave. These pets that do "too much damage" have 16k hp and 1.6k armor, THAT IS 500 ARMOR LESS THAN ZERKER. These pets cannot dodge, they do not react fast to being recalled with F3. They will die eventually no matter how good the ranger is at healing the pet, giving the pet protection, or recalling it from damage.

This build is always an issue for me. Seems to be even stronger this patch for some odd reason... I get the idea of killing pets first. Kinda like mesmer when they go invis. But clones are usually one AA and done. When you kill the pet, don't they just revive after pet swap? So you constantly have to kill pets one after another. How do you deal with the constant pet pressure?

[Wisty.4135]

@"Stallic.2397" said:When you kill the pet, don't they just revive after pet swap? So you constantly have to kill pets one after another. How do you deal with the constant pet pressure?

If pet dies, 60 second cooldown on swap, 45 if traited. If pet doesn't die, swap time is usually 15 seconds. Most pets die quickly if focused, especially those with more damage or CC, and most autopilot pet-rangers aren't going to manage swaps effectively in the heat of battle. The biggest way to deal with pets is to exploit AI by kiting in all honesty - if they start an animation they'll be locked into it until it completes, which for some pets is a LONG time. Use this time to pressure the ranger into blowing CDs, or just outright kill the pet, since most rangers running pet focused builds aren't going to be as big of a threat...

All generally speaking as a ranger main, of course. There are exceptions, and those are annoying to deal with, but by and large, most "NPC ranger" builds are easy to exploit.

[Eurantien.4632]

@Stallic.2397 said:

@"Eurantien.4632" said:Pet damage might need a slight shave. As is, core ranger is simply buffing the pet damage and people have 0 idea how to dodge pet skills or to kite the pet. People who actually know the way pets work and move never get hit.

This is a HUGE l2p issue imo.

But the REAL problem is that if pet damage is shaved (or even if its not shaved) pets need a defensive buff. Against core ranger people should be killing the squishy dps pets. The thing is in a lot of 1v1s (not to mention bigger fights) pets will just die on their own due to AoE and cleave. These pets that do "too much damage" have 16k hp and 1.6k armor, THAT IS 500 ARMOR LESS THAN ZERKER. These pets cannot dodge, they do not react fast to being recalled with F3. They will die eventually no matter how good the ranger is at healing the pet, giving the pet protection, or recalling it from damage.

This build is always an issue for me. Seems to be even stronger this patch for some odd reason... I get the idea of killing pets first. Kinda like mesmer when they go invis. But clones are usually one AA and done. When you kill the pet, don't they just revive after pet swap? So you constantly have to kill pets one after another. How do you deal with the constant pet pressure?

Kite it, dodge it. Pets can only hit you within a certain range and since its AI they cant mind game you. When they reach a specific distance they will attack. Also when a pet dies, the CD is 60s. So the other one will likely just passively die unless its something tanky. Like pet 1 is out, you kill it. I swap. I can now not swap pets again for 60s.

[GewRoo.4172]

@Eurantien.4632 said:Kite it, dodge it. Pets can only hit you within a certain range and since its AI they cant mind game you. When they reach a specific distance they will attack. Also when a pet dies, the CD is 60s. So the other one will likely just passively die unless its something tanky. Like pet 1 is out, you kill it. I swap. I can now not swap pets again for 60s.

They can mind game for sure. I got hit by bambi on Legacy while i was recovering in base and that kitten beast just teleported into it lmaooooooooooooo

[Tazer.2157]

@Erazik.7059 said:

That still wouldnt solve the core problem tho

It would if people actually have to make decisions of recalling the pet if the penalties to pet death. Taking power from the pet into the ranger itself would make the ranger a warrior with a long bow, it would alter the class and it would not really have an identity. Let the pet be a source of damage, a vital part of the ranger class. This way the player has to make good decisions on when to keep the pet in attack mode and when to recall the pet. Good pet management is necessary for the ranger. I think the 60 seconds is not a high enough penalty for the pet death. I would go for 300 secs, but at the same time, pets should not be nerfed into oblivion. Tbh I do not even have problems with the ranger in PvP. If people are having problems with pet, I really think it is a learn to play issue. The one time I had problems with pets were with the bambi doing 7k dmg.

[ZhouX.8742]

having an ai is a ranger weakness, remove it and give the skills to the actual player and you'll avoid a lot of low skill play

although, if rangers were suddenly given the abilities and pets taken away, they'd be complained about more because pet ai is actually trash , regardless of it's dmg it lowers the class ceiling and being able to control skills as opposed to relying on them automatically on rng skill cycles is much more dangerous

[sarangajit.5648]

If I dodge the pet, I have one less dodge to counter the ranger which is an advantage to the ranger. If I don't dodge, I eat the damage also giving an advantage to the ranger. I think pets are underated.

[Revolution.5409]

@sarangajit.5648 said:If I dodge the pet, I have one less dodge to counter the ranger which is an advantage to the ranger. If I don't dodge, I eat the damage also giving an advantage to the ranger. I think pets are underated.

You know you can also move and not stand still to take all the damage, you don't need to dodge to avoid the damage of the pet.

Many Rangers use Birds that are pets with a very low defense, when the Ranger changes the pet he has a CD of 20 seconds before he can do it again, when this happens focus on the pet so you will take away the mechanic from class for 60 seconds, it's not difficult to kill something that can't dodge.

[Poledra Val.1490]

Can Anet please have the foresight to make some well needed adjustments to Ranger as soon as possible. Anyone can pick it up and literally catapult themselves to relevance.

When everyone and his mother complained at how broken FB was they made changes to it quickly and now its more balanced.

Some of the Ranger's "pet damage" has been left totally unchecked and the Greasword block is on extremelly low cooldown that makes them so spammable and easy to survive, Greatsword in general is just utterly busted on Ranger on so many levels. Obviously Necro is another profession that needs adjustments since all we see in ranked ques is literally these two classes dominating.

I wont hold my breath since Anet are one of the most stubborn companies to make obvious changes to clearcut issues.

[Falan.1839]

After Erzian, Erazik is now the second high level ranger main to basically call bullshit on his own class. This gives to think, doesn't it?

[Krispera.5087]

Birds never got changed since LAUNCH (2012!) and it's now people are freaking out about them ???

ANet nerfed all other viable pets and ranger burst, so people just did the most logical thing, went bursty and glassier. More dangerous.

Birds get killed so easily and the minute you kite around, pets will have a difficult time to follow the target.

As for GS, they already nerfed Ranger GS and people want it more nerfed ? What do people even want Ranger to do ? Hit wet noodle and be irrelevant ? What happened, again, is that they nerfed Axe MH damage and Serpent Strike on Sword. People did the next logical thing, they went to something more RELIANT, the GS.

Past seasons actually had more diversity with Ranger builds, but now all builds are all more or less the same. Core, Sbeast or even Druid : LB/GS with WS tree line. If you further nerf Ranger and their pets, you'll see more meme condi builds and people were already crying over it in 2v2.

Who gonna check on monster bruisers like Ele, Necs and Guards after those nerfs ?

[Eurantien.4632]

@Krispera.5087 said:Birds never got changed since LAUNCH (2012!) and it's now people are freaking out about them ???

ANet nerfed all other viable pets and ranger burst, so people just did the most logical thing, went bursty and glassier. More dangerous.

Birds get killed so easily and the minute you kite around, pets will have a difficult time to follow the target.

As for GS, they already nerfed Ranger GS and people want it more nerfed ? What do people even want Ranger to do ? Hit wet noodle and be irrelevant ? What happened, again, is that they nerfed Axe MH damage and Serpent Strike on Sword. People did the next logical thing, they went to something more RELIANT, the GS.

Past seasons actually had more diversity with Ranger builds, but now all builds are all more or less the same. Core, Sbeast or even Druid : LB/GS with WS tree line. If you further nerf Ranger and their pets, you'll see more meme condi builds and people were already crying over it in 2v2.

Who gonna check on monster bruisers like Ele, Necs and Guards after those nerfs ?

They were actually nerfed sometime in 2013. The F2 was nerfed by 34%

Autos buffed 15% in 2013

[Erazik.7059]

@Falan.1839 said:After Erzian, Erazik is now the second high level ranger main to basically call kitten on his own class. This gives to think, doesn't it?

The reason I don't type on the forum is cuz It's infested with silver kids who give advices about balance It's ridiculous. All the people that typed in this thread are example of what im talking about. Game has many issues atm and birds/tiger are on of them. Also can we swap bambi's f2 and charge dmg ratios? Both are cc anyways but the difference is that you choose when to use the f2. Promotes skillfull gameplay and not passive dmg like charge that comes out of nowhere

[monk seal.8079]

@Eurantien.4632 said:

They were actually nerfed sometime in 2013. The F2 was nerfed by 34%

Autos buffed 15% in 2013

In WvW, birds were changed so that they could no longer fly and attack enemy players standing on the top of walls.

[mrauls.6519]

Yeah, some classes need to be toned down (not referring exclusively to Ranger -- don't maul me).

I hope anet address this at the latest by the end of the season. They did good with their first round of nerfs, so let's hope they stay on top of it!

[Erzian.5218]

@"Krispera.5087" said:Birds never got changed since LAUNCH (2012!) and it's now people are freaking out about them ???

ANet nerfed all other viable pets and ranger burst, so people just did the most logical thing, went bursty and glassier. More dangerous.

Birds get killed so easily and the minute you kite around, pets will have a difficult time to follow the target.

As for GS, they already nerfed Ranger GS and people want it more nerfed ? What do people even want Ranger to do ? Hit wet noodle and be irrelevant ? What happened, again, is that they nerfed Axe MH damage and Serpent Strike on Sword. People did the next logical thing, they went to something more RELIANT, the GS.

Past seasons actually had more diversity with Ranger builds, but now all builds are all more or less the same. Core, Sbeast or even Druid : LB/GS with WS tree line. If you further nerf Ranger and their pets, you'll see more meme condi builds and people were already crying over it in 2v2.

Who gonna check on monster bruisers like Ele, Necs and Guards after those nerfs ?

The reasaon they weren't an issue (although I have already complained about owl damage during core times, not on forums but 1v1 servers) is because ranger over all was complete garbage and nobody played with the exception of spirit ranger when people just complained about spirits instead. When ranger finally became a strong class with HoT, birds and other pets were unplayable because of the absurd AoE damage that HoT brought to the game while also being eclipsed by the ridiculously over powered smoke scale and bristleback. HoT pets were nerfed many times but core pets were still unplayable as they had too little survivabilty to survive in the previous meta games because of the aforementioned AoE damage that was still present (and still is on classes like holo).However, since the recent big balance patch the damage is overall much lower (a good direcetion imo), thus pets like birds and cats (not only tiger) thrive in 1v1s (with the exception of holosmiths who still have too much AoE for pets to be useful and to some extend revenant) as their damage hasn't been adjusted. Most rangers have even dropped smoke scale (best utility pet with good ability to chase) in favor of tiger+bird, which beats smoke scale + x in ranger 1v1 about every time.Erazik and me both have complained about it, kol thinks it's dumb and high profile players of other classes (e.g. sindrener) have complained about it as well. It's questionable design when pets (AI) deal more damage with their hardly telegraphed attacks than players do with telegraphed damage skills (not talking about tiger f2 here as that one is very telegraphed and easily dodgeable).Is ranger the most broken class right now? No, but that doesn't mean that those pets regularly hitting for 3k+ with their autoattack is fine, nor are 5k+ on bird f2 ok considering that it has almost no cast time or animation.https://ibb.co/0D90tQ8 1x maul+ 1x f2 + 1x bird autoattack against another ranger in a random ranked game. Admittedly very lucky with crits but 18.2k damage from 3 attacks which together occur in about 1.5 seconds (quickness) is still "a bit" high.

[fashion.6712]

I dont get this nerf carousel. Class x elite spec is too powerful, nerf! They nerf it. Class x changes to core because elite isnt viable anymore. Class x adapts to it, kills people. People shout "core too powerful, nerf". They nerf it. People switch class. Adapt. Kill people. Now that class becomes class x. Rince and repeat.

[Deeb.7638]

@"Eurantien.4632" said:Pet damage might need a slight shave. As is, core ranger is simply buffing the pet damage and people have 0 idea how to dodge pet skills or to kite the pet. People who actually know the way pets work and move never get hit.

This is a HUGE l2p issue imo.

But the REAL problem is that if pet damage is shaved (or even if its not shaved) pets need a defensive buff. Against core ranger people should be killing the squishy dps pets. The thing is in a lot of 1v1s (not to mention bigger fights) pets will just die on their own due to AoE and cleave. These pets that do "too much damage" have 16k hp and 1.6k armor, THAT IS 500 ARMOR LESS THAN ZERKER. These pets cannot dodge, they do not react fast to being recalled with F3. They will die eventually no matter how good the ranger is at healing the pet, giving the pet protection, or recalling it from damage.

isn't this for pretty much everything? master yourself master the enemy

the difference between a pro player and a casual player is like heaven and hell and a really pro player is rare because they spend too much time learning the game and doing their best