PSA: These are not Pre-HoT Damage Numbers. Everyone's damage is significantly lower than Pre-Hot

[Leonidrex.5649]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:OK guys as you can see I have video proof that damage atm is more than x2 what it was in 2014 if we consider maul builds decent atm-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582017577

In case u were wondering what that hit for- it was 9.6k just walking up to target

So after merging with pet, pre-stacking 10 might and quickness, using the trait that gives % bonus damage with quickness, then attacking you do a lot of damage thus completely invalidating every metric I set forth for you to actually match.

dont forget 10 vunl stacks :D8 might10 vuln stacksextra dmg from quicknessmergeI just walk up to the golem BTW

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

As a power mesmer this is pretty obvious.

[Don Vega Van Kain.9842]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

I don't want to cut in the hype but....you know that @Alatar.7364 have been sarcastic cuz he's a thief's main, right ??........... :#

[Alatar.7364]

@Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

I don't want to cut in the hype but....you know that @Alatar.7364 have been sarcastic cuz he's a thief's main, right ??........... :#

About the Video? I wanted to see it and I did accidentally find it in Thief subsection, not much room or reason for sarcasm there =D

[bravan.3876]

I am not getting what the purpose of this comparision is?

(another Bravan wall of text, i can feel the collective exultation xD in particular from Mesmer mains who love me a lot currently):

The game got powercreeped short before HoT release with several changes to core traitlines already. Opportunitycosts in dmg or sustain from traitlines got removed with the traitline specific statboni we had in core. Some classes got mechanically buffed (like Engi with adding an f5 to core), lot of strong traits got baseline on most classes, some traits got merged to a more powerful trait and new traits got added to take the place of the baseline traits and the merged traits.

Means even core traitlines/ core builds got mechanically powercreeped before any xpac was released. Notice the difference between mechanical power creep and powercreep of power lvl of dmg, sustain, boon uptime, effect uptime and cd reductions of skills pls, otherwise you will not understand what i am talking about)!.

Elites then also added new stronger mechanics (while as mentioned the core traitlines got pre buffed to that lvl to compete too). Now, with the last big patch, we got a gamewide trade off in terms of an overall lower power lvl of skill ensembles what fits the fact of the mechanical powercreep from improved and stronger mechanics in core and elite traitlines. I think that by itself is absolute the correct way. We have overall stronger mechanics in the game (in core traitlines just as in elites) and that now gets balanced out by a lower power lvl of skills/ traits gamewide. Now ppl are foreced to play the stronger but also higher skill ceiling mechanics more at their maxixmum potential to have the same impact as with lower skillceiling but also weaker mechanics (some exception from the class specific trade off mess aside ofc, like Mirage, Soulbeast, Chrono but later more).

Also the dmg lvl is not too low on glassy builds atm, it is just that some classes still overperform in terms of sustain and mostly passive facetank sustain makes them mistake- and for that noobfriendly forgiving to play. Added by some overperforming stuff in cc (LR Ele, fear Necro as examples, too many cc with too big impact and too much dmg/effect duration reward). If Anet finally get that in line (what should have happend in the second hotfix, means at least 3-4 weeks after the big patch), than the game will be in a good state where ppl have to use the stronger mechanics at their maximum potential, stronger mechanics who clearly add higher skill ceiling in most cases (like FB has theoretically a higher skill cieling than a core Guard or even DH, just when looking at the pure mechanic and not looking at the unbalanced power lvl of their skill ensemble, just like a Mirage with well designed ambushes and IH used or a Chrono with f5 mechanic has a higher skillceiling and more tactical deepness and higher mechanical complexity than core). Before it was like you got stronger mechanics (core just as elite lines) without any trade off in power lvl of the the skill ensemble, which has more cds or stronger mechanics included than in core days before the mechanical power creep started.

Anet got that right on gamewide lvl, but they missed to do it correct on the classe wide lvl in some cases. Like it is no problem by itself that Fb got way more f skills than a core or DH but the problem starts, when the more skills also have a way higher power lvl. Because each single skill is not weaker enough compared to single core f skills as is should be to balance out the more in cds a Fb has. This lowering in skill power should NOT happen in terms of mechanical trade offs ala Anet what then deletes skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity from elite traitlines, in most cases it just should happen via nerfs to the power lvl of single skills (dmg nerfs, removing doubel/triple rewards on overloaded skills, reduce boon and effect duration) without deleting active gameplay options and parts of the elite mechanic or core mechanics itself (sadly happened on Chrono, Mirage, Soulbeast). Deleting mechanics as trade off is not necessary and rly bad even. But changes of mechanics can be done when needed (example Condimirage would be ideal when condi ambsuhes get a rework and not simple nerfs to clone dmg). But in most cases just lowering the power lvl of skill ensembles with more cds/skills or with stronger mechnanics involved should be enough.

Just because OP is Mesmer main let me talk about Chrono as another example: I don't think CS itself is a problem. Ofc it adds way more skills to builds than on core from the cd reset after CS ends, while also adding a period of higher defense from the fact that hp and dodges just get resetted to pre CS state too. Means you just need to balance out that higher number in cds by lowering the power lvl overall. You can do it like Anet and just destroy the spec by contradicting core and elite mechanics and deleting mechanics (like f4 and IP) and make the spec clunky, unfun and even dumbed down, or you can do it by not touching the mechanics itself (because in case of Chrono you cannot touch the mechanic without destroying it. Condimirage is different, here you can change the mechanic and make it more skilled and less passive without making it clunky and without contradicting the mechanics and even the gamewide basic dodge mechanic: Sadly Anet did the same mistake to Mirage as they did to Chrono and just deleted parts of and overnerfed the mechanic itself instead just changing or nerfing the problematic ambushes on condi directly).Means a way better trade off for Chrono would have been a shatter rework as it happend (with less dmg on f1/f2, while this dmg can be highered by chrono specific gameplay moves, [the f2 rework with lower cd for more spam reward for condi style only was dumb btw], they also could have done that for f4, like linking the invuln duration not to clones up but to slow or quickness or alacrity uptime at the moment the Mesmer press f4 or soemthing like that, and that in addition to some stat penalty like -200 power, - 100 vita-100 touchness when using Chronotraitline. That way a Chrono needs to use f5 on maximum potential, needs to have higher skill to make Chrono as impactful as a Coremes who has stronger shatters and more basic stats and from that overall more dmg but less skills available.

Same for FB. Adding another mechanical trade off to Fb (for example make Fb only have 1 tome and not 3) would be just as bad as the Chrono trade off or the one dodge Mirage change or the Soulbeast petswap deletion. It would contradict the elite mechanic, it would delete active gameplay options, it would delete parts of the Fb mechanic itself and for that would lower the skillceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity from FB. Here simple changes (nerfs) to the power lvl of tome skills and Mantras would be more than enough to bring FB in line to other Guard specs and to other classes. The power lvl of the FB skill ensemble with more cds available just needs to be lower enough to hit the same power lvl as on core. In the end it can even be a little bit stronger because the added skill ceiling is a trade off itself. Even when the more in cds is overall a bit stronger a FB player would still need to play better than on core to have the same impact than with core Guard.

Tldr: That we now have an overall lower power creep lvl of power lvl of skills in terms of dmg numbers (with outliners mostyl condi but also Ranger pets for example), boon duration (with outliners), sustain (with outliners), skill cds (with outliners) is good and even needed to trade off the overall positive mechanical powercreep. Because mechanical power creep when well designed highers the skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity when it has enough trade off in lower power creep of power lvl of skills.

[Cyninja.2954]

Pre HoT damage numbers were lower, the reasons for that extend beyond class balance issues (or balance to damage skills):

• wider availability of ascended as basically new baseline gear. A lot less players had full ascended or even any ascended gear during pre HoT (this applies only to WvW obviously, but even new attribute combinations and loss to old ones will have an effect in pvp)
• availability of boons was far lower in pre HoT. Now many gimmick builds rely on stacking as many multiplicative effects as possible. Something a far less class has access to pre HoT
• re-balance of classes to be more similar in damage output has caused many classes to increase in damage output across the board (remember those elementalist benchmarks being 10k above any other class in pve?) and in all game modes
• some classes have gained additional mechanics on top of damage output, for example especially thief and mesmer have grown in availability of stealth, evade and avoid mechanics. While not a direct damage increase per se, it leads to these classes being able to reengage multiple times, something not as possible pre HoT. Mirage especially took a heavy hit here with losing its 2nd dodge, thief has yet to see a vastly reduced stealth uptime via balance

What remains true:

• there were 1 shot builds pre HoT, just as there are 1 shot builds now. The main difference was: not all classes had access to such builds pre HoT. With the recent damage changes (without getting into how condi has changed and affects small scale balance), a lot more classes lost access to easy 1 shot builds, bringing the total amount of classes back in line with pre HoT values

[UNOwen.7132]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said:

Correction

@mortrialus.3062 said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone

is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do

backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs without assassins signet

. Over 10k with assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher.

[Dantheman.3589]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said:

Correction

@mortrialus.3062 said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone

is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do

backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs

without

assassins signet

. Over 10k

with

assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher.

No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP??Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn

[UNOwen.7132]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said:

Correction

@mortrialus.3062 said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone

is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do

backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs

without

assassins signet

. Over 10k

with

assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher.

No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP??

No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do less damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either.

Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn

Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be.

[Dantheman.3589]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said:

Correction

@mortrialus.3062 said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone

is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do

backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs

without

assassins signet

. Over 10k

with

assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher.

No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP??

No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do

less

damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either.

Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn

Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be.

It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t

[UNOwen.7132]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said:

Correction

@mortrialus.3062 said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone

is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do

backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs

without

assassins signet

. Over 10k

with

assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher.

No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP??

No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do

less

damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either.

Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn

Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be.

It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t

Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent any stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its really bad.

[Dantheman.3589]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said:

Correction

@mortrialus.3062 said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone

is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do

backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs

without

assassins signet

. Over 10k

with

assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher.

No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP??

No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do

less

damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either.

Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn

Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be.

It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t

Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent

any

stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its

really

bad.

The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage

[UNOwen.7132]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said:

Correction

@mortrialus.3062 said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone

is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do

backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs

without

assassins signet

. Over 10k

with

assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher.

No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP??

No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do

less

damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either.

Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn

Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be.

It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t

Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent

any

stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its

really

bad.

The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage

No, actually, it wasnt disproven. It was proven entirely correctly. He showed SA DrD and compared it to a comparable build from back then, and showed the build from back then doing far more damage. You then, disliking this fact and not wanting to skip an opportunity to attack thief again, created a bad full glass cannon no utility build and maximised its damage by doing a whole song and dance that isnt realistic within combat and compared it to the damage from builds that were in fact not full glass cannon no utility builds. But instead builds running the Shadow Arts of old.

[Dantheman.3589]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said:

Correction

@mortrialus.3062 said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone

is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do

backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs

without

assassins signet

. Over 10k

with

assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher.

No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP??

No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do

less

damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either.

Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn

Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be.

It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t

Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent

any

stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its

really

bad.

The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage

No, actually, it wasnt disproven. It was

proven entirely correctly

. He showed SA DrD and compared it to a comparable build from back then, and showed the build from back then doing far more damage. You then, disliking this fact and not wanting to skip an opportunity to attack thief again, created a bad full glass cannon no utility build and maximised its damage by doing a whole song and dance that isnt realistic within combat and compared it to the damage from builds that were in fact not full glass cannon no utility builds. But instead builds running the Shadow Arts of old.

Just wow. You think shadow arts DrD damage is comparable to a build, which by the way doesn’t use the same shadow arts and is much more specced for damage. While guess what an actually usable core build atm get the same numbers. I’m speechless to the amount of disinformation being presented in these threads ?

[UNOwen.7132]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said:

Correction

@mortrialus.3062 said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone

is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do

backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs

without

assassins signet

. Over 10k

with

assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher.

No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP??

No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do

less

damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either.

Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn

Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be.

It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t

Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent

any

stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its

really

bad.

The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage

No, actually, it wasnt disproven. It was

proven entirely correctly

. He showed SA DrD and compared it to a comparable build from back then, and showed the build from back then doing far more damage. You then, disliking this fact and not wanting to skip an opportunity to attack thief again, created a bad full glass cannon no utility build and maximised its damage by doing a whole song and dance that isnt realistic within combat and compared it to the damage from builds that were in fact not full glass cannon no utility builds. But instead builds running the Shadow Arts of old.

Just wow. You think shadow arts DrD damage is comparable to a build, which by the way doesn’t use the same shadow arts and is much more specced for damage. While guess what an actually usable core build atm get the same numbers. I’m speechless to the amount of disinformation being presented in these threads ?

The 12k one didnt use Shadow Arts. It did however use Acrobatics. But I digress. However, the other one, which still did more damage, did in fact use Shadow Arts. Also, are you saying that SA/DrD, the meta version of D/P is bad and that your glass cannon build is "actually usable". Your glass cannon build that is incredibly bad and is played by absolutely noone? And you accuse others of misinformation? The only one spreading misinformation is you when you engineer builds noone used, scenarios that arent realistic, all in a desperate attempt to make it seem like damage back then wasnt higher, and that thief does a lot more damage than it actually does.

[Pengu.7481]

@"mortrialus.3062" said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

which is great. the current balance in terms of dps and power dmg feels good. i dont see the problem.

u want to add back the powercrept "2sec ure dead" gameplay we had b4 2020 again? in which case id suggest u go play an FPS or something. that gameplay has nothing to do here and should stay gone

[Dantheman.3589]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said:

Correction

@mortrialus.3062 said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone

is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do

backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs

without

assassins signet

. Over 10k

with

assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher.

No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP??

No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do

less

damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either.

Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn

Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be.

It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t

Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent

any

stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its

really

bad.

The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage

No, actually, it wasnt disproven. It was

proven entirely correctly

. He showed SA DrD and compared it to a comparable build from back then, and showed the build from back then doing far more damage. You then, disliking this fact and not wanting to skip an opportunity to attack thief again, created a bad full glass cannon no utility build and maximised its damage by doing a whole song and dance that isnt realistic within combat and compared it to the damage from builds that were in fact not full glass cannon no utility builds. But instead builds running the Shadow Arts of old.

Just wow. You think shadow arts DrD damage is comparable to a build, which by the way doesn’t use the same shadow arts and is much more specced for damage. While guess what an actually usable core build atm get the same numbers. I’m speechless to the amount of disinformation being presented in these threads ?

The 12k one didnt use Shadow Arts. It did however use Acrobatics. But I digress. However, the other one, which still did more damage, did in fact use Shadow Arts. Also, are you saying that SA/DrD, the meta version of D/P is bad and that your glass cannon build is "actually usable". Your glass cannon build that is

incredibly

bad and is played by absolutely noone? And you accuse others of misinformation? The only one spreading misinformation is you when you engineer builds noone used, scenarios that arent realistic, all in a desperate attempt to make it seem like damage back then wasnt higher, and that thief does a lot more damage than it actually does.

Your argument is unusable as u seem to think 2 incomparable builds proves anything when compared and again that was why it was moved to the thief forum because it’s a thief meta concern. If u compare 2 builds that are even close 1-1 as I did you would find out that thief damage is generally about the same, not to mention how elite specializations can bring much much greater damage reducing your and the op topic to mere disinformation

[bravan.3876]

Still not getting for what it is relevant. So dmg is lower now than it was pre HoT, and? As explained long and detailed it even makes sense

[UNOwen.7132]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said:

Correction

@mortrialus.3062 said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone

is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do

backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs

without

assassins signet

. Over 10k

with

assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher.

No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP??

No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do

less

damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either.

Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn

Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be.

It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t

Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent

any

stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its

really

bad.

The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage

No, actually, it wasnt disproven. It was

proven entirely correctly

. He showed SA DrD and compared it to a comparable build from back then, and showed the build from back then doing far more damage. You then, disliking this fact and not wanting to skip an opportunity to attack thief again, created a bad full glass cannon no utility build and maximised its damage by doing a whole song and dance that isnt realistic within combat and compared it to the damage from builds that were in fact not full glass cannon no utility builds. But instead builds running the Shadow Arts of old.

Just wow. You think shadow arts DrD damage is comparable to a build, which by the way doesn’t use the same shadow arts and is much more specced for damage. While guess what an actually usable core build atm get the same numbers. I’m speechless to the amount of disinformation being presented in these threads ?

The 12k one didnt use Shadow Arts. It did however use Acrobatics. But I digress. However, the other one, which still did more damage, did in fact use Shadow Arts. Also, are you saying that SA/DrD, the meta version of D/P is bad and that your glass cannon build is "actually usable". Your glass cannon build that is

incredibly

bad and is played by absolutely noone? And you accuse others of misinformation? The only one spreading misinformation is you when you engineer builds noone used, scenarios that arent realistic, all in a desperate attempt to make it seem like damage back then wasnt higher, and that thief does a lot more damage than it actually does.

Your argument is unusable as u seem to think 2 incomparable builds proves anything when compared and again that was why it was moved to the thief forum because it’s a thief meta concern. If u compare 2 builds that are even close 1-1 as I did you would find out that thief damage is generally about the same, not to mention how elite specializations can bring much much greater damage reducing your and the op topic to mere disinformation

First of all, the 2 builds are comparable. Your build is the one that isnt comparable. The build we used is as close to 1-1. You, however, didnt like that, so you created a build far more glassy and far more focused on maximising damage (to the point of even doing that song and dance I mentioned that isnt at all realistic) just to try and get close to that old damage (and only close). Knowing that its unlikely any of us could find an equivalent attempt from back then, as people back then didnt create an unrealistic build and scenario to push up damage as high as possible, but merely actual builds doing realistic damage. Also I hate that I keep having you to remind of your own thing, but you used Daredevil. You used an Elite Specialisation when trying to push up that damage, and you maximised it. It still wasnt as high.

Also, this is still in the PvP forum, not the thief forum. Bit of an odd thing to lie about.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Ok. Lets look at the Skill History.

Maul Started at 406 (1.1).

Pre HoT: 645 (1.6)

HoT: 706 (1.75)

Pre PoF: 706 (1.75)

PoF: 706 (1.75)

Current Version in WvW/PvP: 549 (1.36)

[Tayga.3192]

This isn't a post about thieves, it's about ALL classes. I can't believe this is hard to understand lmao.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said:

Correction

@mortrialus.3062 said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone

is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do

backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs

without

assassins signet

. Over 10k

with

assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher.

No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP??

No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do

less

damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either.

Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn

Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be.

It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t

Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent

any

stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its

really

bad.

The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage

No, actually, it wasnt disproven. It was

proven entirely correctly

. He showed SA DrD and compared it to a comparable build from back then, and showed the build from back then doing far more damage. You then, disliking this fact and not wanting to skip an opportunity to attack thief again, created a bad full glass cannon no utility build and maximised its damage by doing a whole song and dance that isnt realistic within combat and compared it to the damage from builds that were in fact not full glass cannon no utility builds. But instead builds running the Shadow Arts of old.

Just wow. You think shadow arts DrD damage is comparable to a build, which by the way doesn’t use the same shadow arts and is much more specced for damage. While guess what an actually usable core build atm get the same numbers. I’m speechless to the amount of disinformation being presented in these threads ?

The 12k one didnt use Shadow Arts. It did however use Acrobatics. But I digress. However, the other one, which still did more damage, did in fact use Shadow Arts. Also, are you saying that SA/DrD, the meta version of D/P is bad and that your glass cannon build is "actually usable". Your glass cannon build that is

incredibly

bad and is played by absolutely noone? And you accuse others of misinformation? The only one spreading misinformation is you when you engineer builds noone used, scenarios that arent realistic, all in a desperate attempt to make it seem like damage back then wasnt higher, and that thief does a lot more damage than it actually does.

Your argument is unusable as u seem to think 2 incomparable builds proves anything when compared and again that was why it was moved to the thief forum because it’s a thief meta concern. If u compare 2 builds that are even close 1-1 as I did you would find out that thief damage is generally about the same, not to mention how elite specializations can bring much much greater damage reducing your and the op topic to mere disinformation

First of all, the 2 builds

are

comparable. Your build is the one that isnt comparable. The build we used is as close to 1-1. You, however, didnt like that, so you created a build

far

more glassy and

far

more focused on maximising damage (to the point of even doing that song and dance I mentioned that isnt at all realistic) just to try and get close to that old damage (and only close). Knowing that its unlikely any of us could find an equivalent attempt from back then, as people back then didnt create an unrealistic build and scenario to push up damage as high as possible, but merely

actual

builds doing

realistic

damage. Also I hate that I keep having you to remind of your own thing, but you used Daredevil. You used an Elite Specialisation when trying to push up that damage, and you maximised it. It still wasnt as high.

Also, this is

still

in the PvP forum, not the thief forum. Bit of an odd thing to lie about.

You where among the ppl , that is going from threads to thread saying that theif can only do 4kThis video simply dssaprooves your theory , and theif sould use offensive traits if he wants damage . You cannot stay on the most defensives one and cry about not doing damage ...do as the Rangers are doing ...get the offensives ones

Thief in vanilia used the first ofencive spec to the 4 sec immobilize on 50% hp + 50% extra crit on stealth + 4k crit mug + posion + he gets 300 extra power (because each point spend on first traitline in all classes (even necros) offered Power + Fire/Lighting Sigil criting for 1300 cirt

So you admit ?He used an elite spec , such as daredevil to improve his damage .So daredevil spec is overloaed with good stuff and they should spreads out , to the most offensive traits

2 months before the patch , you would do the same dps as vanilia +more + have more survibility .Thats called powercreep , where you simply mathematician mind cannot comprehent :)Thanks god they scaled it down , rather than having an arm race of whom can burst faster , if you consider that new specs are coming .Or YOU! crying that the Mesmers can do 25k burst , while a theif only 16k whawhawha

Edit:13 March 2020

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:did you just assume that under 50% crit chance build crit 100% of the time? o.O

First of all, you forgot Fury. Second of all, you also always assume that the backstab of thief crits, so Im not sure why youre in shock that I would make the same assumption. Oh and spoiler: If we take away the "it always crits assumption", thief is

even worse off

. Their crit multiplier is higher, so their overall damage becomes lower.

mesmers crit modifier is insane due to overstacking ferocity ( scholars + berserker ) and sup complex ( 25% damage bonus ON CRITS ONLY )first hits that DONT proc fury, have UNDER 50% crit chance. 48 or 49 if I remember correctly.after fury they have under 70% still. If you get unlucky first hits and dont drop the enemy under 75% you WILL F1 without fury making you still miss even more damage.this is why you F1 for 10k dmg with crits and for 3k without crits, becouse mesmers crit modif is actually about 3.0.as for thief, depending on the build they run with maruders ( more crit chance + fury from the start ) so its insta 70% OR they run crits strikers so they have always 100%.Im not expert on thief but getting crit from backstab is about 70-100%.for your 20k dmg to thief is almost perfect scenarion. all crits would nuke for about 23k. Realistic damage is way lower, and for every ultra lucky burst you will get ultra unlucky one that doesnt even do 12k.

PS gs2 is broken and deals less dmg then intended.

15%. 25% is when theyre below 50% or disabled, but I didnt assume that, so 15% is what I went with. Thief was also using scholars + berserkers in this hypothetical scenario.

Correct, but the way Mesmers burst is structured, the highest damage skills are at the end. And yes, its

just

under 70% (67%, I think?). And no, that is wrong, the crit modifier is 2.4. More if you assume more, I didnt. And no, you will hit 12k with crits, and about 5000 without. Which is still less than thieves difference of 2.55.

They run Berserkers, not Marauders. Actually I think S/P still runs Marauders, the others have switched to Berserkers. You are not an expert on thief, yes, which is why youre wrong. Its 50-70%. There is no build running Crit Strikes for Hidden Killer. Well there is one in WvW, but it uses Valkyrie.

Correct, it is an almost perfect scenario. But the thing is, even if you just crit the average amount, thats still around 15-16k damage, which is a lot more than thief can achieve with backstab. And again, as I mentioned you also assumed thief always crits, which they certainly dont.

Is it? I hadnt actually looked that close at the GS2 numbers, but if they are bugged, I assume itll be fixed.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1186526#Comment_1186526

[Dantheman.3589]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said:

Correction

@mortrialus.3062 said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone

is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do

backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs

without

assassins signet

. Over 10k

with

assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher.

No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP??

No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do

less

damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either.

Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn

Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be.

It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t

Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent

any

stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its

really

bad.

The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage

No, actually, it wasnt disproven. It was

proven entirely correctly

. He showed SA DrD and compared it to a comparable build from back then, and showed the build from back then doing far more damage. You then, disliking this fact and not wanting to skip an opportunity to attack thief again, created a bad full glass cannon no utility build and maximised its damage by doing a whole song and dance that isnt realistic within combat and compared it to the damage from builds that were in fact not full glass cannon no utility builds. But instead builds running the Shadow Arts of old.

Just wow. You think shadow arts DrD damage is comparable to a build, which by the way doesn’t use the same shadow arts and is much more specced for damage. While guess what an actually usable core build atm get the same numbers. I’m speechless to the amount of disinformation being presented in these threads ?

The 12k one didnt use Shadow Arts. It did however use Acrobatics. But I digress. However, the other one, which still did more damage, did in fact use Shadow Arts. Also, are you saying that SA/DrD, the meta version of D/P is bad and that your glass cannon build is "actually usable". Your glass cannon build that is

incredibly

bad and is played by absolutely noone? And you accuse others of misinformation? The only one spreading misinformation is you when you engineer builds noone used, scenarios that arent realistic, all in a desperate attempt to make it seem like damage back then wasnt higher, and that thief does a lot more damage than it actually does.

Your argument is unusable as u seem to think 2 incomparable builds proves anything when compared and again that was why it was moved to the thief forum because it’s a thief meta concern. If u compare 2 builds that are even close 1-1 as I did you would find out that thief damage is generally about the same, not to mention how elite specializations can bring much much greater damage reducing your and the op topic to mere disinformation

First of all, the 2 builds

are

comparable. Your build is the one that isnt comparable. The build we used is as close to 1-1. You, however, didnt like that, so you created a build

far

more glassy and

far

more focused on maximising damage (to the point of even doing that song and dance I mentioned that isnt at all realistic) just to try and get close to that old damage (and only close). Knowing that its unlikely any of us could find an equivalent attempt from back then, as people back then didnt create an unrealistic build and scenario to push up damage as high as possible, but merely

actual

builds doing

realistic

damage. Also I hate that I keep having you to remind of your own thing, but you used Daredevil. You used an Elite Specialisation when trying to push up that damage, and you maximised it. It still wasnt as high.

Also, this is

still

in the PvP forum, not the thief forum. Bit of an odd thing to lie about.

? the 2 builds aren’t even meant to be close in damage and therefore aren’t comparable, but then again you think ppl are fabricating builds, videos and numbers to prove not even your own point is false

[Dantheman.3589]

@Tayga.3192 said:This isn't a post about thieves, it's about ALL classes. I can't believe this is hard to understand lmao.

Than wouldn’t it be worse as thief and ranger are already proven otherwise?

[UNOwen.7132]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said:

Correction

@mortrialus.3062 said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone

is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do

backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs

without

assassins signet

. Over 10k

with

assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher.

No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP??

No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do

less

damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either.

Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn

Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be.

It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t

Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent

any

stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its

really

bad.

The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage

No, actually, it wasnt disproven. It was

proven entirely correctly

. He showed SA DrD and compared it to a comparable build from back then, and showed the build from back then doing far more damage. You then, disliking this fact and not wanting to skip an opportunity to attack thief again, created a bad full glass cannon no utility build and maximised its damage by doing a whole song and dance that isnt realistic within combat and compared it to the damage from builds that were in fact not full glass cannon no utility builds. But instead builds running the Shadow Arts of old.

Just wow. You think shadow arts DrD damage is comparable to a build, which by the way doesn’t use the same shadow arts and is much more specced for damage. While guess what an actually usable core build atm get the same numbers. I’m speechless to the amount of disinformation being presented in these threads ?

The 12k one didnt use Shadow Arts. It did however use Acrobatics. But I digress. However, the other one, which still did more damage, did in fact use Shadow Arts. Also, are you saying that SA/DrD, the meta version of D/P is bad and that your glass cannon build is "actually usable". Your glass cannon build that is

incredibly

bad and is played by absolutely noone? And you accuse others of misinformation? The only one spreading misinformation is you when you engineer builds noone used, scenarios that arent realistic, all in a desperate attempt to make it seem like damage back then wasnt higher, and that thief does a lot more damage than it actually does.

Your argument is unusable as u seem to think 2 incomparable builds proves anything when compared and again that was why it was moved to the thief forum because it’s a thief meta concern. If u compare 2 builds that are even close 1-1 as I did you would find out that thief damage is generally about the same, not to mention how elite specializations can bring much much greater damage reducing your and the op topic to mere disinformation

First of all, the 2 builds

are

comparable. Your build is the one that isnt comparable. The build we used is as close to 1-1. You, however, didnt like that, so you created a build

far

more glassy and

far

more focused on maximising damage (to the point of even doing that song and dance I mentioned that isnt at all realistic) just to try and get close to that old damage (and only close). Knowing that its unlikely any of us could find an equivalent attempt from back then, as people back then didnt create an unrealistic build and scenario to push up damage as high as possible, but merely

actual

builds doing

realistic

damage. Also I hate that I keep having you to remind of your own thing, but you used Daredevil. You used an Elite Specialisation when trying to push up that damage, and you maximised it. It still wasnt as high.

Also, this is

still

in the PvP forum, not the thief forum. Bit of an odd thing to lie about.

? the 2 builds aren’t even meant to be close in damage and therefore aren’t comparable, but then again you think ppl are fabricating builds, videos and numbers to prove not even your own point is false

Both builds are burst builds that dont go completely glass cannon with no utility. They are 100% comparable. Now your build is a build that goes full glass cannon with no utility, and additionally uses an unrealistic out of combat scenario that in combat will not be achieved. Now this build is indeed not comparable. When we use the comparable builds, we see, clearly, that the old build does a whole lot more damage.

Now of course, this isnt at all surprising. If you look back, the only thing that happened to Thieves damage and its multipliers, is that they were nerfed. Quite significantly so. Backstab ate a 25% nerf. Lead Attacks have become much harder to have at 15% when bursting. Exposed Weakness became more conditional and usually worse. So how exactly do you think the damage wouldnt be worse, given that it was nerfed accross the board?

I only say people do that, when they objectively did do that. Though I think even you cant deny that you created this build to push damage as high as possible without any concern for its viability (or rather complete lack thereof), and that you created a scenario with no concern of how realistic (or rather not) it is. Then you tried to compare it to builds people actually used, in actual combat scenarios, and tried to act like its "as close to 1-1 as possible". What a joke.