Core ranger is broken

[shadowpass.4236]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah, the pets need a damage nerf, this completly slipped trough.

Also please, for the love of god, remove the random CC / knockdowns some pets have. Its totally fine if its a comanded skill that does CC, but random CC on an AI Pet is just so unfun and wrong on many levels. There is a good reason we dont have % chance evade or miss in this game. Its like playing the lottery.

There is no random CC. The pets use it as the first or second attack after switching and on cooldown afterwards. Most of them have also an obvious animation that is easy to dodge. And pets miss around 80% of their attacks anyway if you keep moving...If you get constantly CCed by passive pet skills it's a player problem, not the game.

“An obvious animation” Who has time to look at pet animations when you’re busy watching the ranger and trying to dodge a knock back, maul, stun, or interrupt their heals?

I guess that works if you’re playing something that can just absorb constant damage and save dodges. But it isn’t realistic. To me all the tiger animations look the same. I think one has a charge up but it’s near impossible to keep track of the animations if you’re on something that isn’t bunker or that doesn’t have excess dodges.

Who has time to look at phantasm animations when you're busy watching the mesmer? Plenty of people do. It's a L2P issue on your end and this lazy mindset of complaining about stuff that has visible animations (that are long enough you can react to) means that you just need to actually spend effort to try and improve your knowledge of this matchup instead of just making excuses.

Simply put, fighting a ranger requires you to deal with the pet in some way. You can:

1. Kill it after the pet swap to shut the core ranger down
2. Use terrain to make the pet path around obstacles and never be able to hit you
3. Do neither of these, decide to take the fight against the ranger while letting the pet freely damage you, and have to dodge the important pet skills

[Brujeria.7536]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah, the pets need a damage nerf, this completly slipped trough.

Also please, for the love of god, remove the random CC / knockdowns some pets have. Its totally fine if its a comanded skill that does CC, but random CC on an AI Pet is just so unfun and wrong on many levels. There is a good reason we dont have % chance evade or miss in this game. Its like playing the lottery.

There is no random CC. The pets use it as the first or second attack after switching and on cooldown afterwards. Most of them have also an obvious animation that is easy to dodge. And pets miss around 80% of their attacks anyway if you keep moving...If you get constantly CCed by passive pet skills it's a player problem, not the game.

“An obvious animation” Who has time to look at pet animations when you’re busy watching the ranger and trying to dodge a knock back, maul, stun, or interrupt their heals?

I guess that works if you’re playing something that can just absorb constant damage and save dodges. But it isn’t realistic. To me all the tiger animations look the same. I think one has a charge up but it’s near impossible to keep track of the animations if you’re on something that isn’t bunker or that doesn’t have excess dodges.

Who has time to look at phantasm animations when you're busy watching the mesmer? Plenty of people do. It's a L2P issue on your end and this lazy mindset of complaining about stuff that has visible animations (that are long enough you can react to) means that you just need to actually spend effort to try and improve your knowledge of this matchup instead of just making excuses.

Simply put, fighting a ranger requires you to deal with the pet in some way. You can:

1. Kill it after the pet swap to shut the core ranger down
2. Use terrain to make the pet path around obstacles and never be able to hit you
3. Do neither of these, decide to take the fight against the ranger while letting the pet freely damage you, and have to dodge the important pet skills

No its not as easy as that. Ranger pets actually are durable vs. condition damage. IF the pet is about to die its just swapped with very little cooldown and no actual downside for the ranger.

You dont have the resources to dodge the random pet skills that crit for too much damage as you need those to dodge the important ranger skills.

Its not the same with phantasms, these are summoned and do their thing, but summon them means the mesmer must use a skill, you know exactly what is going to happen and when its going to happen on a cooldown basis, based on the weapon of the mesmer. It also has clear animations and calls. Ranger Pets attack all the time.

You also cant use terrain, as again, you have 2 focus points, kite the pet and the ranger decaps / caps a point, cap a point yourself and the pet is on you and the ranger attacks you from afar.

The pet damage is broken and unjustified high no matter how you look at it.

[Eurantien.4632]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah, the pets need a damage nerf, this completly slipped trough.

Also please, for the love of god, remove the random CC / knockdowns some pets have. Its totally fine if its a comanded skill that does CC, but random CC on an AI Pet is just so unfun and wrong on many levels. There is a good reason we dont have % chance evade or miss in this game. Its like playing the lottery.

There is no random CC. The pets use it as the first or second attack after switching and on cooldown afterwards. Most of them have also an obvious animation that is easy to dodge. And pets miss around 80% of their attacks anyway if you keep moving...If you get constantly CCed by passive pet skills it's a player problem, not the game.

“An obvious animation” Who has time to look at pet animations when you’re busy watching the ranger and trying to dodge a knock back, maul, stun, or interrupt their heals?

I guess that works if you’re playing something that can just absorb constant damage and save dodges. But it isn’t realistic. To me all the tiger animations look the same. I think one has a charge up but it’s near impossible to keep track of the animations if you’re on something that isn’t bunker or that doesn’t have excess dodges.

Who has time to look at phantasm animations when you're busy watching the mesmer? Plenty of people do. It's a L2P issue on your end and this lazy mindset of complaining about stuff that has visible animations (that are long enough you can react to) means that you just need to actually spend effort to try and improve your knowledge of this matchup instead of just making excuses.

Simply put, fighting a ranger requires you to deal with the pet in some way. You can:

1. Kill it after the pet swap to shut the core ranger down
2. Use terrain to make the pet path around obstacles and never be able to hit you
3. Do neither of these, decide to take the fight against the ranger while letting the pet freely damage you, and have to dodge the important pet skills

No its not as easy as that. Ranger pets actually are durable vs. condition damage. IF the pet is about to die its just swapped with very little cooldown and no actual downside for the ranger.

You dont have the resources to dodge the random pet skills that crit for too much damage as you need those to dodge the important ranger skills.

Its not the same with phantasms, these are summoned and do their thing, but summon them means the mesmer must use a skill, you know exactly what is going to happen and when its going to happen on a cooldown basis, based on the weapon of the mesmer. It also has clear animations and calls. Ranger Pets attack all the time.

You also cant use terrain, as again, you have 2 focus points, kite the pet and the ranger decaps / caps a point, cap a point yourself and the pet is on you and the ranger attacks you from afar.

The pet damage is broken and unjustified high no matter how you look at it.

You bait the pet swap and kill the pet. The pet has NO CONDITION REMOVAL. If you're fighting on node it also means the pet can't get away from you. This is a l2p issue.

[shadowpass.4236]

Like here's two clips that show the difference between Toker and Sind playing that matchup:

1. Toker (thief) destroying me followed by me admitting I got outplayed: video
2. Sind (thief) losing to Juvenile Tiger and complaining about ranger: video

   ---

In the first clip, you can see:

1. Toker takes 8,200 health off of me from stealth with backstab + steal (I was on demolisher's amulet btw).
2. Auto attacks me to get me to dodge then uses Shadow Shot for 3.3k right after my evade ends to blind me again.
3. Cluster bombs for 2.4k where I stealth to continue to pressure me.
4. I maul Toker for a juicy 878 damage because I have weakness on me.
5. He evades my Swoop engage and drops Smokescreen so the pet can't hit him through the blinds.
6. He uses Choking Gas right after I use my GS4 block to interrupt it.
7. He uses Cluster Bomb immediately after to force my Lightning Reflexes (or I would've died) because he was counting my dodges and saw that I burned my GS3 evade.
8. When I kite up terrain, he uses 4.2k Cluster Bombs to pressure me off.
9. The instant I drop down he Heartseeker + Steals me for another grand total of 8,000 damage.

and @"cptaylor.2670" Toker isn't "playing something that can just absorb constant damage and save dodges." Neither is he playing a build that is really meant for 1v1s.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah, the pets need a damage nerf, this completly slipped trough.

Also please, for the love of god, remove the random CC / knockdowns some pets have. Its totally fine if its a comanded skill that does CC, but random CC on an AI Pet is just so unfun and wrong on many levels. There is a good reason we dont have % chance evade or miss in this game. Its like playing the lottery.

There is no random CC. The pets use it as the first or second attack after switching and on cooldown afterwards. Most of them have also an obvious animation that is easy to dodge. And pets miss around 80% of their attacks anyway if you keep moving...If you get constantly CCed by passive pet skills it's a player problem, not the game.

“An obvious animation” Who has time to look at pet animations when you’re busy watching the ranger and trying to dodge a knock back, maul, stun, or interrupt their heals?

I guess that works if you’re playing something that can just absorb constant damage and save dodges. But it isn’t realistic. To me all the tiger animations look the same. I think one has a charge up but it’s near impossible to keep track of the animations if you’re on something that isn’t bunker or that doesn’t have excess dodges.

Who has time to look at phantasm animations when you're busy watching the mesmer? Plenty of people do. It's a L2P issue on your end and this lazy mindset of complaining about stuff that has visible animations (that are long enough you can react to) means that you just need to actually spend effort to try and improve your knowledge of this matchup instead of just making excuses.

Simply put, fighting a ranger requires you to deal with the pet in some way. You can:

1. Kill it after the pet swap to shut the core ranger down
2. Use terrain to make the pet path around obstacles and never be able to hit you
3. Do neither of these, decide to take the fight against the ranger while letting the pet freely damage you, and have to dodge the important pet skills

No its not as easy as that. Ranger pets actually are durable vs. condition damage. IF the pet is about to die its just swapped with very little cooldown and no actual downside for the ranger.

You dont have the resources to dodge the random pet skills that crit for too much damage as you need those to dodge the important ranger skills.

Its not the same with phantasms, these are summoned and do their thing, but summon them means the mesmer must use a skill, you know exactly what is going to happen and when its going to happen on a cooldown basis, based on the weapon of the mesmer. It also has clear animations and calls. Ranger Pets attack all the time.

You also cant use terrain, as again, you have 2 focus points, kite the pet and the ranger decaps / caps a point, cap a point yourself and the pet is on you and the ranger attacks you from afar.

The pet damage is broken and unjustified high no matter how you look at it.

The only way a ranger can condi clear a pet is by pet swapping it. So, after the ranger pet swaps, you have 16 seconds to kill the pet.

• A.K.A. all condis you put on it will tick out for their full durations and the ranger will be forced to burn his heal to try and keep the pet alive through healing alone.
• A.K.A. you win the fight anyways.
• P.S. weakness, burns, blinds and torment work very well vs. pets. Or power builds can just burst the pet down in one damage rotation and force the ranger to kite and break combat.

And the justification for the pet damage is that we need two entire traitlines dedicated to buffing their damage on certain attacks and that birds and tigers are literally our glass cannon pets and are completely useless vs. condi, cleave, and teamfights for some extra single target damage.

[Brujeria.7536]

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah, the pets need a damage nerf, this completly slipped trough.

Also please, for the love of god, remove the random CC / knockdowns some pets have. Its totally fine if its a comanded skill that does CC, but random CC on an AI Pet is just so unfun and wrong on many levels. There is a good reason we dont have % chance evade or miss in this game. Its like playing the lottery.

There is no random CC. The pets use it as the first or second attack after switching and on cooldown afterwards. Most of them have also an obvious animation that is easy to dodge. And pets miss around 80% of their attacks anyway if you keep moving...If you get constantly CCed by passive pet skills it's a player problem, not the game.

“An obvious animation” Who has time to look at pet animations when you’re busy watching the ranger and trying to dodge a knock back, maul, stun, or interrupt their heals?

I guess that works if you’re playing something that can just absorb constant damage and save dodges. But it isn’t realistic. To me all the tiger animations look the same. I think one has a charge up but it’s near impossible to keep track of the animations if you’re on something that isn’t bunker or that doesn’t have excess dodges.

Who has time to look at phantasm animations when you're busy watching the mesmer? Plenty of people do. It's a L2P issue on your end and this lazy mindset of complaining about stuff that has visible animations (that are long enough you can react to) means that you just need to actually spend effort to try and improve your knowledge of this matchup instead of just making excuses.

Simply put, fighting a ranger requires you to deal with the pet in some way. You can:

1. Kill it after the pet swap to shut the core ranger down
2. Use terrain to make the pet path around obstacles and never be able to hit you
3. Do neither of these, decide to take the fight against the ranger while letting the pet freely damage you, and have to dodge the important pet skills

No its not as easy as that. Ranger pets actually are durable vs. condition damage. IF the pet is about to die its just swapped with very little cooldown and no actual downside for the ranger.

You dont have the resources to dodge the random pet skills that crit for too much damage as you need those to dodge the important ranger skills.

Its not the same with phantasms, these are summoned and do their thing, but summon them means the mesmer must use a skill, you know exactly what is going to happen and when its going to happen on a cooldown basis, based on the weapon of the mesmer. It also has clear animations and calls. Ranger Pets attack all the time.

You also cant use terrain, as again, you have 2 focus points, kite the pet and the ranger decaps / caps a point, cap a point yourself and the pet is on you and the ranger attacks you from afar.

The pet damage is broken and unjustified high no matter how you look at it.

You bait the pet swap and kill the pet. The pet has NO CONDITION REMOVAL. If you're fighting on node it also means the pet can't get away from you. This is a l2p issue.

No its not. Its unbalanced. Again the ranger can call its pet back at any time. If you use your cooldowns on the pet the ranger engages you and you have nothing left, also you need to "bait" the petswap in the first place which wont happen against a good player. Again everything is gated behind cooldowns, if you blow every cooldown on the pet chances are the pet survives / gets swapped and you have nothing left for the ranger. There is no decent counterplay.

[Brujeria.7536]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah, the pets need a damage nerf, this completly slipped trough.

Also please, for the love of god, remove the random CC / knockdowns some pets have. Its totally fine if its a comanded skill that does CC, but random CC on an AI Pet is just so unfun and wrong on many levels. There is a good reason we dont have % chance evade or miss in this game. Its like playing the lottery.

There is no random CC. The pets use it as the first or second attack after switching and on cooldown afterwards. Most of them have also an obvious animation that is easy to dodge. And pets miss around 80% of their attacks anyway if you keep moving...If you get constantly CCed by passive pet skills it's a player problem, not the game.

“An obvious animation” Who has time to look at pet animations when you’re busy watching the ranger and trying to dodge a knock back, maul, stun, or interrupt their heals?

I guess that works if you’re playing something that can just absorb constant damage and save dodges. But it isn’t realistic. To me all the tiger animations look the same. I think one has a charge up but it’s near impossible to keep track of the animations if you’re on something that isn’t bunker or that doesn’t have excess dodges.

Who has time to look at phantasm animations when you're busy watching the mesmer? Plenty of people do. It's a L2P issue on your end and this lazy mindset of complaining about stuff that has visible animations (that are long enough you can react to) means that you just need to actually spend effort to try and improve your knowledge of this matchup instead of just making excuses.

Simply put, fighting a ranger requires you to deal with the pet in some way. You can:

1. Kill it after the pet swap to shut the core ranger down
2. Use terrain to make the pet path around obstacles and never be able to hit you
3. Do neither of these, decide to take the fight against the ranger while letting the pet freely damage you, and have to dodge the important pet skills

No its not as easy as that. Ranger pets actually are durable vs. condition damage. IF the pet is about to die its just swapped with very little cooldown and no actual downside for the ranger.

You dont have the resources to dodge the random pet skills that crit for too much damage as you need those to dodge the important ranger skills.

Its not the same with phantasms, these are summoned and do their thing, but summon them means the mesmer must use a skill, you know exactly what is going to happen and when its going to happen on a cooldown basis, based on the weapon of the mesmer. It also has clear animations and calls. Ranger Pets attack all the time.

You also cant use terrain, as again, you have 2 focus points, kite the pet and the ranger decaps / caps a point, cap a point yourself and the pet is on you and the ranger attacks you from afar.

The pet damage is broken and unjustified high no matter how you look at it.

The only way a ranger can condi clear a pet is by pet swapping it. So, after the ranger pet swaps, you have 16 seconds to kill the pet.

• A.K.A. all condis you put on it will tick out for their full durations and the ranger will be forced to burn his heal to try and keep the pet alive through healing alone.
• A.K.A. you win the fight anyways.
• P.S. weakness, burns, blinds and torment work very well vs. pets. Or power builds can just burst the pet down in one damage rotation and force the ranger to kite and break combat.

And the justification for the pet damage is that we need two entire traitlines dedicated to buffing their damage on certain attacks and that birds and tigers are literally our glass cannon pets and are completely useless vs. condi, cleave, and teamfights for some extra single target damage.

Again, if you condi bomb the pet you have nothing left for the ranger, any good ranger will switch to GS and kill you / pressure you at this point. There is absolutely no justification for this, guess why they nerfed scourge? For the exact same reason, you have no tradeoff, do i do the damage? Does the shade do the damage?

[shadowpass.4236]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah, the pets need a damage nerf, this completly slipped trough.

Also please, for the love of god, remove the random CC / knockdowns some pets have. Its totally fine if its a comanded skill that does CC, but random CC on an AI Pet is just so unfun and wrong on many levels. There is a good reason we dont have % chance evade or miss in this game. Its like playing the lottery.

There is no random CC. The pets use it as the first or second attack after switching and on cooldown afterwards. Most of them have also an obvious animation that is easy to dodge. And pets miss around 80% of their attacks anyway if you keep moving...If you get constantly CCed by passive pet skills it's a player problem, not the game.

“An obvious animation” Who has time to look at pet animations when you’re busy watching the ranger and trying to dodge a knock back, maul, stun, or interrupt their heals?

I guess that works if you’re playing something that can just absorb constant damage and save dodges. But it isn’t realistic. To me all the tiger animations look the same. I think one has a charge up but it’s near impossible to keep track of the animations if you’re on something that isn’t bunker or that doesn’t have excess dodges.

Who has time to look at phantasm animations when you're busy watching the mesmer? Plenty of people do. It's a L2P issue on your end and this lazy mindset of complaining about stuff that has visible animations (that are long enough you can react to) means that you just need to actually spend effort to try and improve your knowledge of this matchup instead of just making excuses.

Simply put, fighting a ranger requires you to deal with the pet in some way. You can:

1. Kill it after the pet swap to shut the core ranger down
2. Use terrain to make the pet path around obstacles and never be able to hit you
3. Do neither of these, decide to take the fight against the ranger while letting the pet freely damage you, and have to dodge the important pet skills

No its not as easy as that. Ranger pets actually are durable vs. condition damage. IF the pet is about to die its just swapped with very little cooldown and no actual downside for the ranger.

You dont have the resources to dodge the random pet skills that crit for too much damage as you need those to dodge the important ranger skills.

Its not the same with phantasms, these are summoned and do their thing, but summon them means the mesmer must use a skill, you know exactly what is going to happen and when its going to happen on a cooldown basis, based on the weapon of the mesmer. It also has clear animations and calls. Ranger Pets attack all the time.

You also cant use terrain, as again, you have 2 focus points, kite the pet and the ranger decaps / caps a point, cap a point yourself and the pet is on you and the ranger attacks you from afar.

The pet damage is broken and unjustified high no matter how you look at it.

The only way a ranger can condi clear a pet is by pet swapping it. So, after the ranger pet swaps, you have 16 seconds to kill the pet.

• A.K.A. all condis you put on it will tick out for their full durations and the ranger will be forced to burn his heal to try and keep the pet alive through healing alone.
• A.K.A. you win the fight anyways.
• P.S. weakness, burns, blinds and torment work very well vs. pets. Or power builds can just burst the pet down in one damage rotation and force the ranger to kite and break combat.

And the justification for the pet damage is that we need two entire traitlines dedicated to buffing their damage on certain attacks and that birds and tigers are literally our glass cannon pets and are completely useless vs. condi, cleave, and teamfights for some extra single target damage.

Again, if you condi bomb the pet you have nothing left for the ranger, any good ranger will switch to GS and kill you / pressure you at this point. There is absolutely no justification for this, guess why they nerfed scourge? For the exact same reason, you have no tradeoff, do i do the damage? Does the shade do the damage?

You play necro? Reaper can kill the pet easily and core necro literally hard counters core ranger.

1. Weakening Shroud = 10 seconds of weakness on the pet every 10 seconds
2. Pet is perma chilled or crippled (so if you're moving and using terrain, pet will never hit you) with torment and/or burns
3. Pets can't move through fear ring without stability and when the ranger pops his elite, just corrupt boon it to fear
4. Lich can kill pet in 3 autos
5. etc. etc.

[Levijeh.9643]

I think is just the pet (tiger, bird) dps that needs a bit tone down. That's all.

[Eurantien.4632]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah, the pets need a damage nerf, this completly slipped trough.

Also please, for the love of god, remove the random CC / knockdowns some pets have. Its totally fine if its a comanded skill that does CC, but random CC on an AI Pet is just so unfun and wrong on many levels. There is a good reason we dont have % chance evade or miss in this game. Its like playing the lottery.

There is no random CC. The pets use it as the first or second attack after switching and on cooldown afterwards. Most of them have also an obvious animation that is easy to dodge. And pets miss around 80% of their attacks anyway if you keep moving...If you get constantly CCed by passive pet skills it's a player problem, not the game.

“An obvious animation” Who has time to look at pet animations when you’re busy watching the ranger and trying to dodge a knock back, maul, stun, or interrupt their heals?

I guess that works if you’re playing something that can just absorb constant damage and save dodges. But it isn’t realistic. To me all the tiger animations look the same. I think one has a charge up but it’s near impossible to keep track of the animations if you’re on something that isn’t bunker or that doesn’t have excess dodges.

Who has time to look at phantasm animations when you're busy watching the mesmer? Plenty of people do. It's a L2P issue on your end and this lazy mindset of complaining about stuff that has visible animations (that are long enough you can react to) means that you just need to actually spend effort to try and improve your knowledge of this matchup instead of just making excuses.

Simply put, fighting a ranger requires you to deal with the pet in some way. You can:

1. Kill it after the pet swap to shut the core ranger down
2. Use terrain to make the pet path around obstacles and never be able to hit you
3. Do neither of these, decide to take the fight against the ranger while letting the pet freely damage you, and have to dodge the important pet skills

No its not as easy as that. Ranger pets actually are durable vs. condition damage. IF the pet is about to die its just swapped with very little cooldown and no actual downside for the ranger.

You dont have the resources to dodge the random pet skills that crit for too much damage as you need those to dodge the important ranger skills.

Its not the same with phantasms, these are summoned and do their thing, but summon them means the mesmer must use a skill, you know exactly what is going to happen and when its going to happen on a cooldown basis, based on the weapon of the mesmer. It also has clear animations and calls. Ranger Pets attack all the time.

You also cant use terrain, as again, you have 2 focus points, kite the pet and the ranger decaps / caps a point, cap a point yourself and the pet is on you and the ranger attacks you from afar.

The pet damage is broken and unjustified high no matter how you look at it.

The only way a ranger can condi clear a pet is by pet swapping it. So, after the ranger pet swaps, you have 16 seconds to kill the pet.

• A.K.A. all condis you put on it will tick out for their full durations and the ranger will be forced to burn his heal to try and keep the pet alive through healing alone.
• A.K.A. you win the fight anyways.
• P.S. weakness, burns, blinds and torment work very well vs. pets. Or power builds can just burst the pet down in one damage rotation and force the ranger to kite and break combat.

And the justification for the pet damage is that we need two entire traitlines dedicated to buffing their damage on certain attacks and that birds and tigers are literally our glass cannon pets and are completely useless vs. condi, cleave, and teamfights for some extra single target damage.

Again, if you condi bomb the pet you have nothing left for the ranger, any good ranger will switch to GS and kill you / pressure you at this point. There is absolutely no justification for this, guess why they nerfed scourge? For the exact same reason, you have no tradeoff, do i do the damage? Does the shade do the damage?

If a core ranger is able to kill you in the current meta without a pet, they must be running something that makes them super easy to kill (marauder, demo, zerker) when +'d by a thief or a rev. They also wouldn't be able to 1v1 any meta side noder like lightning rod weaver, of sage weaver, or prot holo. So this is then just a l2p issue on your part for taking a fight that you shouldn't be in.

[Dajas.4715]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah, the pets need a damage nerf, this completly slipped trough.

Also please, for the love of god, remove the random CC / knockdowns some pets have. Its totally fine if its a comanded skill that does CC, but random CC on an AI Pet is just so unfun and wrong on many levels. There is a good reason we dont have % chance evade or miss in this game. Its like playing the lottery.

There is no random CC. The pets use it as the first or second attack after switching and on cooldown afterwards. Most of them have also an obvious animation that is easy to dodge. And pets miss around 80% of their attacks anyway if you keep moving...If you get constantly CCed by passive pet skills it's a player problem, not the game.

“An obvious animation” Who has time to look at pet animations when you’re busy watching the ranger and trying to dodge a knock back, maul, stun, or interrupt their heals?

I guess that works if you’re playing something that can just absorb constant damage and save dodges. But it isn’t realistic. To me all the tiger animations look the same. I think one has a charge up but it’s near impossible to keep track of the animations if you’re on something that isn’t bunker or that doesn’t have excess dodges.

Exactly this. The animations are barely noticeable, the pet swap animations are clunky as well as the pet movement. When a ranger swaps pet its completly random animation wise.

Also random CC on pets - and they are random as there is no distinct call or player choice as to when they are executed (even the ranger does not see its cooldown) - is always terrible.

First off yeah some off the pets are strong without a doubt.But the cc is not random it states how long the cd is, all you have to do is look at the 15 minute timer and subject the cd from there, it's that simple. Every skill is random to the enemy as you have no idea what they are going to use next.Core ranger is super strong still but mainly as a duelest.

[Revolution.5409]

@shadowpass.4236 said:Who has time to look at phantasm animations when you're busy watching the mesmer? Plenty of people do. It's a L2P issue on your end and this lazy mindset of complaining about stuff that has visible animations (that are long enough you can react to) means that you just need to actually spend effort to try and improve your knowledge of this matchup instead of just making excuses.

They are not l2p problems, they are futile pretexts for requesting nerfs.Removing CC from pets would make many Noobs happy in these forums .

[Refuriation.5246]

This build hits so hard lol, I tried it because I saw this post.I won the three games i played with top damage and attack while barely even practiced it lol.

Don't nerf it Anet, i love feeling like a god in pvp sometimes :D.On a serious note:If Anet nerfes all other classes to the ground on a regular basis, this must follow too.Nothing about having meta, but if you want to kill the meta every time, do it on a regular basis and switch up the meta every week or two and nerf this build as well.

[dronte.3416]

@shadowpass.4236 said:The problem with forcing ranger to take two defensive traitlines like wilderness survival and nature magic is that beastmastery is also mandatory for core ranger because the extra stats help prevent the pet from dying to random condis and cleave.

I might have misunderstood this, but you never need two defensive traitlines for core ranger. BM/MM/WS is the way to go.

[aymnad.9023]

People just do not want to try vs ranger. This is kind of impressive. Ranger has not been meta since boonbeast and people still cry on anything all the time.Not only are other builds better duelist, not only is it not played that much in plat but a lot of build just remove the pets with very little focus. The only thing core is guilty for compared to other brawlers is having a damage pet.

[RedAvenged.5217]

I don’t see what’s inconsistent about ranger with the nerfs. It got nerfed like all other builds and just like how pets didn’t eat too big of nerfs other things similar like stolen skills for thief barely got touched and just like how a few trait lines that provide damage didn’t get touched much ex marksmanship or crit strikes on thief

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah, the pets need a damage nerf, this completly slipped trough.

Also please, for the love of god, remove the random CC / knockdowns some pets have. Its totally fine if its a comanded skill that does CC, but random CC on an AI Pet is just so unfun and wrong on many levels. There is a good reason we dont have % chance evade or miss in this game. Its like playing the lottery.

There is no random CC. The pets use it as the first or second attack after switching and on cooldown afterwards. Most of them have also an obvious animation that is easy to dodge. And pets miss around 80% of their attacks anyway if you keep moving...If you get constantly CCed by passive pet skills it's a player problem, not the game.

“An obvious animation” Who has time to look at pet animations when you’re busy watching the ranger and trying to dodge a knock back, maul, stun, or interrupt their heals?

I guess that works if you’re playing something that can just absorb constant damage and save dodges. But it isn’t realistic. To me all the tiger animations look the same. I think one has a charge up but it’s near impossible to keep track of the animations if you’re on something that isn’t bunker or that doesn’t have excess dodges.

Who has time to look at phantasm animations when you're busy watching the mesmer? Plenty of people do. It's a L2P issue on your end and this lazy mindset of complaining about stuff that has visible animations (that are long enough you can react to) means that you just need to actually spend effort to try and improve your knowledge of this matchup instead of just making excuses.

Simply put, fighting a ranger requires you to deal with the pet in some way. You can:

1. Kill it after the pet swap to shut the core ranger down
2. Use terrain to make the pet path around obstacles and never be able to hit you
3. Do neither of these, decide to take the fight against the ranger while letting the pet freely damage you, and have to dodge the important pet skills

No its not as easy as that. Ranger pets actually are durable vs. condition damage. IF the pet is about to die its just swapped with very little cooldown and no actual downside for the ranger.

No, they aren't. At the best the ranger has 15s in between swaps. If something like a Condi Mallyx were to focus any pet, it dies in like 6s. Pets cannot dodge or block or evade or cleanse themselves. Of course things are different between bronze 1 and legend tier, but if you're playing at around gold 3 or higher, pets die to damage to when focused, power or condi.

You dont have the resources to dodge the random pet skills that crit for too much damage as you need those to dodge the important ranger skills.

No, that's bologna. In the case of Core Ranger, without Soulbeast line/pet stats bonus/Sic'Em, every skill on LB does trash can damage, and only maul on GS side does any significant damage at all. If you are having problem preserving dodge rolls and other defensive CDs between dodging 1) Maul and 2) Obvious Pet animations, you're doing something wrong. Seriously, most things in play right now can face tank & heal through EVERY attack a Core Ranger does, outside of Maul/Pets, and stay at 90% health or above. Slow down in your 1v1s, pay attention, dodge what needs to be dodged, eat the small damage. That's how you do it.

Its not the same with phantasms, these are summoned and do their thing, but summon them means the mesmer must use a skill, you know exactly what is going to happen and when its going to happen on a cooldown basis, based on the weapon of the mesmer. It also has clear animations and calls. Ranger Pets attack all the time.

^ No. There is so much wrong with this statement that I'm not going to take the time to comment on it.

You also cant use terrain, as again, you have 2 focus points, kite the pet and the ranger decaps / caps a point, cap a point yourself and the pet is on you and the ranger attacks you from afar.

This is getting ridiculous. You guys are beginning to embellish these ranger pet stories as if the pets are raid bosses or Rodan or something. Come on man, if you're LOSing and a pet follows you over there while the Ranger is capping, if you can't DPS that pet and kill it in about 4s, you're a bad player.

The pet damage is broken and unjustified high no matter how you look at it.

You know what I think? I think that the knowledge & skill based perceptions of forum users speaking out about balance lately, is degenerating.

People are forgetting the difference in dynamic and how it adds up, between: 1) Burst 2) DPS "damage per second" 3) Reliable/Unrealiable damage. In years past, we had more veteran players playing at higher skill caps who understood the game better. These players would better notice the relationships & differences between the aforementioned 3 aspects. In years past, when players would discuss "damage output on a build and if it were too high or not enough" they would discuss aspects such as:

1. How it has Burst every 20 to 30s, but how after that burst was used, the rest of the build dealt so little damage that was unreliable "not so easy to land or secure" that it could barely pass as attrition.
2. How a build may have no real burst, but how it had strong attrition or sustained damage output. They would point out despite the lack in bursting, the build was actually dealing more damage over the course of a 1v1 or even team fight than the burster, because the damage was distributed across the entire build and everything it did, rather than just 2 skills. They'd discuss how those sorts of builds were ultimately better than bursting gimmicks because the damage couldn't be so easily avoided by any player, even those with great awareness of telegraphed gimmicks.
3. How a build may have low attrition value but that it is super reliable because everything it does is an AoE with little to no animation that hits everything in a team fight. And due to this build structure, the damage is still good even though it's low, because no one can avoid it. Over the course of time, this type of damage output ebbs away at a team fight and those types of builds often get top damage stat because of how much damage they are actually dealing over the course of time with highly reliable attrition spam.

The 1) is very typical of current Core Ranger. The 2) is very typical of current Holosmith. The 3) is typical of current Core Necromancer.

But right now, and I don't know quite exactly why it is, the bulk of forum users aren't identifying any of this ^ All they see is 1 large number appear on their screen, just 1. If they see that 1x large number in a combat log THEY FREAK OUT and have to come into this forum and explain how ungodly and powerful w/e build it was that hit them with that 1 number. It doesn't matter if the next 1v1 they take has a build that is steadily consistently pumping out twice the damage output in half the amount of time, as long as that build doesn't hit some single strike large number once every 30s to 60s, they're ok with it. The players who come to this forum lately, seriously only see large numbers. And they disregard the idea of "l2p". No really, they completely ignore the things that they need to do, to play their own class correctly and how to play against another class correctly.

It's like all of a sudden, people's idea of balance, is for everything to feel and look exactly the same. Players just want to walk in at each other in very specifically close to light mid range, and see the same kinds of numbers popping above each other's heads, no more and no less than the other, and have to put forth little to no effort to actually stop and think about "Am I supposed to be LOSing this or using a defensive skill on it?" "Should I save my skills for when I bait his skill CD?" No, they just want to be able to spam attacks and spam defenses with as little thought attached to it as possible, and have things somehow pan out to be "balanced" within that region of skill cap like that.

I don't know man. Lately the bulk of this forum is speaking a different language in terms of balance than the older players.

Scares the #$%^ out of me tbh.

[Crozame.4098]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:Like here's two clips that show the difference between Toker and Sind playing that matchup:

1. Toker (thief) destroying me followed by me admitting I got outplayed: video
2. Sind (thief) losing to Juvenile Tiger and complaining about ranger: video

   ---

In the first clip, you can see:

1. Toker takes 8,200 health off of me from stealth with backstab + steal (I was on demolisher's amulet btw).
2. Auto attacks me to get me to dodge then uses Shadow Shot for 3.3k right after my evade ends to blind me again.
3. Cluster bombs for 2.4k where I stealth to continue to pressure me.
4. I maul Toker for a juicy 878 damage because I have weakness on me.
5. He evades my Swoop engage and drops Smokescreen so the pet can't hit him through the blinds.
6. He uses Choking Gas right after I use my GS4 block to interrupt it.
7. He uses Cluster Bomb immediately after to force my Lightning Reflexes (or I would've died) because he was counting my dodges and saw that I burned my GS3 evade.
8. When I kite up terrain, he uses 4.2k Cluster Bombs to pressure me off.
9. The instant I drop down he Heartseeker + Steals me for another grand total of 8,000 damage.

and @"cptaylor.2670" Toker isn't "playing something that can just absorb constant damage and save dodges." Neither is he playing a build that is really meant for 1v1s.

Every time you try to prove something, it makes me wonder, how can you reach those conclusions... Two very very obvious issues:1) You did not run tiger.2) Sind did not use dagger.

If we frame it another way, in the first flip, I can see:1) Toker had the buff, you knew he was close, but you used protect me for nothing. And ate that burst. You were not that careful.2) dodging auto attacks, ok...4) thats the first time you hit on him, he had no vulnerability and you did not know you have weakness. Maybe you did not pay attention.5) Oh why not bait his dodges using auto attacks..6) I think you know thief have that skill, but you used GS4 when they can easily stun you. You did not

Well, I acknowledge you are a good player, reaching plat 3, while I am struggling around plat 2. its just, your evidence is not convincing. But its fine, most players on this forum defend their own classes.

[Crozame.4098]

See how ranger main defend their classes and teach others how to counter ranger is hilarious. Just dodge the correct skills and eat the correct skills, isnt this true for all classes? or spend 6 seconds or more to focus the pet can kill it easily, oh we have 6 uninterrupted seconds to do that and the ranger is not going to stun or do dmg me during that 6 or more seconds. Oh, and we need to focus on weapon swap, weapon abilities, random pet cc, and pet utility, while checking for minimap to check the overall situation. Against other classes, we at least have 2 things less to worry about.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Crozame.4098 said:See how ranger main defend their classes and teach others how to counter ranger is hilarious. Just dodge the correct skills and eat the correct skills, isnt this true for all classes? or spend 6 seconds or more to focus the pet can kill it easily, oh we have 6 uninterrupted seconds to do that and the ranger is not going to stun or do dmg me during that 6 or more seconds. Oh, and we need to focus on weapon swap, weapon abilities, random pet cc, and pet utility, while checking for minimap to check the overall situation. Against other classes, we at least have 2 things less to worry about.

It may be hard for you to believe this, but this whole vs. the pet & ranged damage thing, is actually the #1 l2p issue in this game, as very obviously indicated by how ranger is powerful in low tiers, but not viable at high tiers.

If you want to win against rangers, don't take for granted the advice being given to you from old ranger mains. They're being completely serious with what they are explaining to you.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@shadowpass.4236 said:2x Screenshots

\o/

If I could thumbs up 100 times I would.

I guess Helios is a Ranger Police now.

[shadowpass.4236]

Wakkey's opinion on ranger

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Oh man this is pretty weird.

It's starting to look like anyone with any game knowledge at all is agreeing on the same exact thing.

Maybe the statements from Ranger mains ended up being honest feedback and not forum-biased defense at all.

[Crozame.4098]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:See how ranger main defend their classes and teach others how to counter ranger is hilarious. Just dodge the correct skills and eat the correct skills, isnt this true for all classes? or spend 6 seconds or more to focus the pet can kill it easily, oh we have 6 uninterrupted seconds to do that and the ranger is not going to stun or do dmg me during that 6 or more seconds. Oh, and we need to focus on weapon swap, weapon abilities, random pet cc, and pet utility, while checking for minimap to check the overall situation. Against other classes, we at least have 2 things less to worry about.

It may be hard for you to believe this, but this whole vs. the pet & ranged damage thing, is actually the #1 l2p issue in this game, as very obviously indicated by how ranger is powerful in low tiers, but not viable at high tiers.

If you want to win against rangers, don't take for granted the advice being given to you from old ranger mains. They're being completely serious with what they are explaining to you.

It may be hard for you to believe this, but this whole vs. the pet & ranged damage thing, is actually the #1 l2p issue in this game, as very obviously indicated by how ranger is powerful in low tiers, but not viable at high tiers.

I agree it has a l2p element in it, but its far from #1. Its hard to believe that even the top players can track every pet skill and pet animation. Its just too much to focus. And please do not use that toker clip to demonstrate: a) its not general. 2) it has a lot of dodge, projectile blocking and stealth. And also, not from your post, but Holo is OP is a separate issue, the logic that because Holo is more OP, people just just ignore the ranger class is flawed. They both should be addressed.

[Crozame.4098]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

\o/

So broken in ranked means not broken at all. OK, I see your logic....He also mentioned that pet dmg is broken....