Delete birds please

[Brynioch.1873]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/99760/kitten-fix-this-kitten-pets-coefficients-already#latest

@"shadowpass.4236" said:Press f2 and kill ppl

They do way too much damageSo, what changed?

I think you meant to link this

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1181845#Comment_1181845

What I'm supposed to see here? An old meme "just kill the pet" ?Also more deflection from the insane trait synergy of Wilderness Survival, the problem with rangers wasn't just the pets or marksmanship line or greatsword, it was the complete package where it was simply better than anything other classes had.Was it a secret for anyone that WS has goodies like protection/cleanses/passive poison/natural vigor all in 1 traitline?

As I said originally, ranger needs a hard nerf to some aspects but mostly a lot of little changes across the board.

I was meaning that rangers are trying to deflect from WS being so strong not you.I think Eura told once that WS is the problem but I dont remember when/where.Yet, bird autos on my 1888 armor is 3600, I feel like bird has maul instead of auto-attack

I already pointed out the coefficients on

some

pets was too high, go search my comment history shouldn't be too far down. I asked the "ranger mains" in that thread to talk about how much damage a pet should be doing compared to a player and it was the usual smoke, mirrors and no point answering this question kind of deal.

Yeah because it depends on the damage the ranger deals... If the ranger deals low damage pets need more damage to compensate. As the ranger damage got nerfed again, the birds are even more fine than they were before.

Thing is no-one is talking about WS at the moment. Why? It's a crutch and no-one likes losing it.

A lot of rangers hate being forced into WS for almost all defensive traits we have. It makes builds incredible boring. Nobody would shed a tear if they spread WS traits over different traitlines.

[Seth.8906]

I see 4 necro x match but jeah lets call for ranger nerf! How can ppl farm the amulet if ranger kill them 1 vs1 !

[shadowpass.4236]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Drennon.7190 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:Press f2 and kill ppl

They do way too much damage

They also die in about 5 seconds if you attack them...

5s you attack the pet is 5s you are not attacking ranger, add in pet swap and you end up wasting 10s + most of your cooldowns to kill a pet thats going to be up in couple of sec anyways, you better be able to win 1v1 with ranger by using basic attacks alone or its not working fam+1.I don t know why the hell swapping pet reset pet's health. IMO pet's health should regenerate according to how long they ve been "unused". Some thing like 1% of total health gained each 1.2 secs (based on 60s to rally a pet with 50% health). So that swapping will not be something they do only for them (boons, burst, smoke...)but also for the pet. IMO rangers should take a little more care of their pets.

that would be fine in 1v1, but in 2v2/3v3 pet would be perma dead, let alone wvw xd.Its just something that cant be balanced right as long as pet deals good damage, it should provide utility and CC and nothing more.

I agree with you. That's why I prefer smokescale and gazelle over birds. Both of those pets require the player to capitalize on their CCs and set up long combos to kill someone.

Birds are just gape damage and they aren't telegraphed like a tiger is. Their damage needs to go WAAAAAY down and animations need to be made very distinct and visible like they are with a lot of our other pets.

Overall, I think a lot of our pets need reworking because historically, they've either been overpowered or useless and very seldom in between.

And yes, I know it's another "nerf ranger" thread but I've been a ranger main since the start of the game and even I can tell that these birds are straight up not fun to fight against and very easy to use. With that being said, the effort required to counterplay the simple act of the ranger using birds is disproportionately high in terms of how little skill they take to be effective with.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Drennon.7190 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Press f2 and kill ppl

They do way too much damage

They also die in about 5 seconds if you attack them...

5s you attack the pet is 5s you are not attacking ranger, add in pet swap and you end up wasting 10s + most of your cooldowns to kill a pet thats going to be up in couple of sec anyways, you better be able to win 1v1 with ranger by using basic attacks alone or its not working fam+1.I don t know why the hell swapping pet reset pet's health. IMO pet's health should regenerate according to how long they ve been "unused". Some thing like 1% of total health gained each 1.2 secs (based on 60s to rally a pet with 50% health). So that swapping will not be something they do only for them (boons, burst, smoke...)but also for the pet. IMO rangers should take a little more care of their pets.

that would be fine in 1v1, but in 2v2/3v3 pet would be perma dead, let alone wvw xd.Its just something that cant be balanced right as long as pet deals good damage, it should provide utility and CC and nothing more.

I agree with you. That's why I prefer smokescale and gazelle over birds. Both of those pets require the player to capitalize on their CCs and set up long combos to kill someone.

Birds are just gape damage and they aren't telegraphed like a tiger is. Their damage needs to go WAAAAAY down and animations need to be made very distinct and visible like they are with a lot of our other pets.

Overall, I think a lot of our pets need reworking because historically, they've either been overpowered or useless and very seldom in between.

And yes, I know it's another "nerf ranger" thread but I've been a ranger main since the start of the game and even I can tell that these birds are straight up not fun to fight against and very easy to use. With that being said, the effort required to counterplay the simple act of the ranger

using

birds is disproportionately high in terms of how little skill they take to be effective with.

its not even about what can be done to counter them, not every build can afford that, I sure as hell dont have throwaway 16k dmg not power mirage do dump into a pet, let alone do it twice, best I cant do is focus ranger, and abuse elevation to the max, because if Im stuck on the same level as the bird I die to pet alone within 30s-60sI think its one of those things where people that complain about ranger see the worst case scenario for them ( me having to give up any chance of 1v1 with any ranger with power mirage because bird alone makes it unwinnable as long as ranger doesnt find a way to die within first 25-30s of combat ) and ranger seeing their worst case where bet gets trolled with elevation, or bugs on terrain, misses obv hits or just die to burnguard that tags it with half ability

[Sarision.6347]

Or maybe we should just remove the pet mechanic and rework the whole class. It has been almost eight years and we still can't get the pet balance right.

Or at the very least, rework the mechanic. We can start with giving more control over pet skills and limit the pet's damage to the autoattacks.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

After birds get toned down you'll be complaining about WS, then move back onto Marksmanship, then pet CC (with a tell), then probably Point-Blank Shot etc.

The caster mains on this forum.

[Tayga.3192]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:The caster mains on this forum.

Shadow plays ranger tho

[storm.3120]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:The caster mains on this forum.

Shadow plays ranger thoFunniest thing is... he was very defensive about birds and 2 months laters he basically saying the same as I did... It took 2 month to realize. (apparently "just kill the pet" doesnt work anymore :D )

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Odik.4587 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:The caster mains on this forum.

Shadow plays ranger thoFunniest thing is... he was very defensive about birds and 2 months laters he basically saying the same as I did... It took 2 month to realize. (apparently "just kill the pet" doesnt work anymore :D )

People use birds out of need, not "abuse". Times change.

[storm.3120]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:The caster mains on this forum.

Shadow plays ranger thoFunniest thing is... he was very defensive about birds and 2 months laters he basically saying the same as I did... It took 2 month to realize. (apparently "just kill the pet" doesnt work anymore :D )

People use birds out of need, not "abuse". Times change.What do I read there ? Its fine to be broken because you feel like its "needed" ?

[apharma.3741]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:The caster mains on this forum.

Shadow plays ranger thoFunniest thing is... he was very defensive about birds and 2 months laters he basically saying the same as I did... It took 2 month to realize. (apparently "just kill the pet" doesnt work anymore :D )

People use birds out of need, not "abuse". Times change.

Well that's not true and you know it.

Smokescale is a much better pet in utility and Gazelle is a CC machine making it easier to control or utilise maul or rapid fire. There's a reason any experienced ranger is moving onto these 2 pets and it's because we all know bird damage is utterly insane across every ability and will get toned down.

On a side note it seems the wiki coefficients have been changed 3 days ago to be significantly lower than originally.

[Abyssisis.3971]

I use the hawk in my condi ranger build, never really noticed it doing all that much damage tho, will have to take a closer look at combat logs next time i pvp.

[Brynioch.1873]

@apharma.3741 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:The caster mains on this forum.

Shadow plays ranger thoFunniest thing is... he was very defensive about birds and 2 months laters he basically saying the same as I did... It took 2 month to realize. (apparently "just kill the pet" doesnt work anymore :D )

People use birds out of need, not "abuse". Times change.

Well that's not true and you know it.

Smokescale is a much better pet in utility and Gazelle is a CC machine making it easier to control or utilise maul or rapid fire. There's a reason any experienced ranger is moving onto these 2 pets and it's because we all know bird damage is utterly insane across every ability and will get toned down.

On a side note it seems the wiki coefficients have been changed 3 days ago to be significantly lower than originally.

Yeah because they were wrong on many pets. Like the tiger which had something like 4.x from the wiki on Ferocius Pounce when it was 1.0.

So when everyone is moving from birds to other pets it rather indicates they are no so strong you want them to be... So nerfing them without increasing the survibility would just add something more to the pile of useless pets. Birds are fine.

[apharma.3741]

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:The caster mains on this forum.

Shadow plays ranger thoFunniest thing is... he was very defensive about birds and 2 months laters he basically saying the same as I did... It took 2 month to realize. (apparently "just kill the pet" doesnt work anymore :D )

People use birds out of need, not "abuse". Times change.

Well that's not true and you know it.

Smokescale is a much better pet in utility and Gazelle is a CC machine making it easier to control or utilise maul or rapid fire. There's a reason any experienced ranger is moving onto these 2 pets and it's because we all know bird damage is utterly insane across every ability and will get toned down.

On a side note it seems the wiki coefficients have been changed 3 days ago to be significantly lower than originally.

Yeah because they were wrong on many pets. Like the tiger which had something like 4.x from the wiki on Ferocius Pounce when it was 1.0.

So when everyone is moving from birds to other pets it rather indicates they are no so strong you want them to be... So nerfing them without increasing the survibility would just add something more to the pile of useless pets. Birds are fine.

Yeah birds are fine, chunking off 8k of a persons health:https://clips.twitch.tv/EnthusiasticSmokyKiwiMVGame

Or on auto a nice juicy 4k with little indication straight out of pet swap:https://clips.twitch.tv/AmazonianProductiveLobsterFreakinStinkin

Likely the coefficients being changed aren't accounting for lower pet stats and weapon strength, the coefficients on pets is much higher than listed on the wiki to compensate for this which is reasonable to an extent but the coefficients are certainly not 0.76 as you'd have trouble pushing a 0.76 coefficient to the numbers you see in game.

[zoopop.5630]

So much for Birds being a "L2P" Issue and Easy to "Kill".

Just play prot holo and spam blind on node you'll be fine.

[Erazik.7059]

@shadowpass.4236 said:Press f2 and kill ppl

They do way too much damage

When i made my thread about ranger pets awhile ago u said they are fine and replied with ,,just kill the pet'' . Now what? xd

[Eurantien.4632]

With knights amulet gone ranger actually does enough dmg to kill a ranger who doesn't have dps pets.

We removed knights the way he wanted, and now he's upset that there are bird rangers beating his ss + gazelle ranger.

Core ranger is barelt viable now so, does this really matter anymore?

So while kill the birds can still apply if you're condi and/or tanky enough, it is more wise to kill the ranger if you're both in an open area and you have the damage now. Or LoS and kill the pet behind LoS first then kill the ranger.

[Eurantien.4632]

@Abyssisis.3971 said:I use the hawk in my condi ranger build, never really noticed it doing all that much damage tho, will have to take a closer look at combat logs next time i pvp.

Hawk doesn't do the same amount of damage as owl or raven.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Odik.4587 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:The caster mains on this forum.

Shadow plays ranger thoFunniest thing is... he was very defensive about birds and 2 months laters he basically saying the same as I did... It took 2 month to realize. (apparently "just kill the pet" doesnt work anymore :D )

People use birds out of need, not "abuse". Times change.What do I read there ? Its fine to be broken because you feel like its "needed" ?

That's your odd interpretation, not me.

[ArlsTipsierAlt.9138]

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:You cant dodge the F2 now? Play holo. Does just fine.Dodge poorly telegraphed skill without a cast time ... Ye, just dodge it like everyone dodge steal, kappa

When the pet gets within a specific range it will attack you. So all you have to do is dodge when pet is at the right distance and you'll dodge it almost every time.

I will quote this for the next time your class gets nerfed. Just so you don't have to wonder why I rip on you.

[zoopop.5630]

what's the point in running SS / Gazelle now that knights been removed ?

Wouldn't it make sense Now to run Either double Bird or SS with One bird pet? Rangers still has a solid amount of kill potential now with Demo amulet and bird still hitting for over 6k. WS went untouched but you can probably use Sic-em with 2 stun breaks over 3 stun breaks and win a majority of your fights still.

[Eurantien.4632]

@zoopop.5630 said:what's the point in running SS / Gazelle now that knights been removed ?

Wouldn't it make sense Now to run Either double Bird or SS with One bird pet? Rangers still has a solid amount of kill potential now with Demo amulet and bird still hitting for over 6k. WS went untouched but you can probably use Sic-em with 2 stun breaks over 3 stun breaks and win a majority of your fights still.

I personally never saw any reason even before to not run double birds (despite the fact some things can kill them), You can't really get away with sic em without knights. Sure, you can do the 1v1, but it makes it way harder to survive outnumbered. And without knights you pretty much have to leave outnumbered anyway... which could be an argument for why you could run Sic Em... but I don't think so

[zoopop.5630]

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:what's the point in running SS / Gazelle now that knights been removed ?

Wouldn't it make sense Now to run Either double Bird or SS with One bird pet? Rangers still has a solid amount of kill potential now with Demo amulet and bird still hitting for over 6k. WS went untouched but you can probably use Sic-em with 2 stun breaks over 3 stun breaks and win a majority of your fights still.

I personally never saw any reason even before to not run double birds (despite the fact some things can kill them), You can't really get away with sic em without knights. Sure, you can do the 1v1, but it makes it way harder to survive outnumbered. And without knights you pretty much have to leave outnumbered anyway... which could be an argument for why you could run Sic Em... but I don't think so

Haven't really played much last few days after the Patch(stepping away from the game for a bit due to the game being boring) but at this point why would you still have a ranger hold sides? Prot holo and possibly even renegade do the Job better for at less effort so wouldn't it make sense to have the ranger play more of a roamer then anything else? I'll even argue the fact that weaver can probably do a better job then ranger as a side noder without knights amulet.

Hence why i think people ran with Gazelle and SS. Just to be more of a pain in the ass to deal with overall as a ranger who can't really die and pets that took to long to deal with but now that's no longer the case with the Nerfs to GS and Knights amulet being removed kinda screwed you guys from actually face tanking stuff.

[Eurantien.4632]

@zoopop.5630 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:what's the point in running SS / Gazelle now that knights been removed ?

Wouldn't it make sense Now to run Either double Bird or SS with One bird pet? Rangers still has a solid amount of kill potential now with Demo amulet and bird still hitting for over 6k. WS went untouched but you can probably use Sic-em with 2 stun breaks over 3 stun breaks and win a majority of your fights still.

I personally never saw any reason even before to not run double birds (despite the fact some things can kill them), You can't really get away with sic em without knights. Sure, you can do the 1v1, but it makes it way harder to survive outnumbered. And without knights you pretty much have to leave outnumbered anyway... which could be an argument for why you could run Sic Em... but I don't think so

Haven't really played much last few days after the Patch(stepping away from the game for a bit due to the game being boring) but at this point why would you still have a ranger hold sides? Prot holo and possibly even renegade do the Job better for at less effort so wouldn't it make sense to have the ranger play more of a roamer then anything else? I'll even argue the fact that weaver can probably do a better job then ranger as a side noder without knights amulet.

Hence why i think people ran with Gazelle and SS. Just to be more of a pain in the kitten to deal with overall as a ranger who can't really die and pets that took to long to deal with.

Yeah prot holo def just seems better than core ranger now... if you go like core zerker you can keep the neut through just damage... and you can manage a lot of 1v1s easier with the extra damage but you are susceptible to +'s more and you def cannot tank it out like before.

For 5v5 core ranger prob ain't the play. But I'm sure it still slaughters people in ranked.

Which is again the source of all the problems on the forums. I want to balance around top tier 5v5. And others want to balance around ranked queue.

[ArlsTipsierAlt.9138]

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:what's the point in running SS / Gazelle now that knights been removed ?

Wouldn't it make sense Now to run Either double Bird or SS with One bird pet? Rangers still has a solid amount of kill potential now with Demo amulet and bird still hitting for over 6k. WS went untouched but you can probably use Sic-em with 2 stun breaks over 3 stun breaks and win a majority of your fights still.

I personally never saw any reason even before to not run double birds (despite the fact some things can kill them), You can't really get away with sic em without knights. Sure, you can do the 1v1, but it makes it way harder to survive outnumbered. And without knights you pretty much have to leave outnumbered anyway... which could be an argument for why you could run Sic Em... but I don't think so

Haven't really played much last few days after the Patch(stepping away from the game for a bit due to the game being boring) but at this point why would you still have a ranger hold sides? Prot holo and possibly even renegade do the Job better for at less effort so wouldn't it make sense to have the ranger play more of a roamer then anything else? I'll even argue the fact that weaver can probably do a better job then ranger as a side noder without knights amulet.

Hence why i think people ran with Gazelle and SS. Just to be more of a pain in the kitten to deal with overall as a ranger who can't really die and pets that took to long to deal with.

Yeah prot holo def just seems better than core ranger now... if you go like core zerker you can keep the neut through just damage... and you can manage a lot of 1v1s easier with the extra damage but you are susceptible to +'s more and you def cannot tank it out like before.

For 5v5 core ranger prob ain't the play. But I'm sure it still slaughters people in ranked.

Which is again the source of all the problems on the forums. I want to balance around top tier 5v5. And others want to balance around ranked queue.

There is no 5v5 queue, there hasn’t been one in a very long time. It is unlikely there will ever be one again. Will you be kind enough to let this go?