saerni.2584 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 @Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:Let me get this right. So your keep gets broken into, both outer and inner. Which you see because you are involved in the fight to defend. Then a thief who stayed behind spends 30 minutes stacking stealth and avoiding reveals from any number of people who are trying to catch them. Which, is because they lost the fight to take the keep and presumably are decently outnumbered.Then, after some time, up to 30 minutes of stealth stacking and avoiding reveals later they manage to bring some allies using Shadow Portal into inner. And then that group manages to beat the keep lord without anyone knowing about it. When did this happen or did you just dream it up? Lol are you kitten me? Avoiding reveals are easy as hell. And since when is WvW about the entire group trying to find 1 stealthing thief? This happens on a weekly baisis. I even do it on my thief whenever I play it. So you don’t sweep for thief and Mesmer after? Like, sure, one reveal is easy. Several over the span of 10 seconds will be much much harder to stick around and stay alive.If you can’t be bothered then that thief and the group deserve that cap imo.No one what so ever has said anything about mesmer. Dont even try to compare the 2. I have no problem with mesmer at all. Sure they can hide but are easily found with "Sniff" or by just running around.A completely different story when it comes to thieves who are permanetly invisible. And unless an entire zerg is chasing after me when I play my thief I wont be found. Doesn't matter the amount of reveal they have. Avoiding it is easy. You honestly just sound like a pathetic thief main who enjoy abusing broken mechanics because you lack skill. Stop trying to justify broken mechanics. Uh, tone down the insults. It’s not an argument and undermines your credibility. Second, I am a roamer. The number of times I hide in a tower or keep is small. Every time I’ve hid inside SM or a larger structure there have been people around. It doesn’t matter if I port people inside if they are easily spotted and the enemy can respond quickly. Third, I don’t use permastealth tactics. Not do I usually want to hide for longer than 5 minutes or so. It’s a waste of my time when I could be fighting and killing players. Fourth, the suggested tactic of porting in and out was not mentioned by me because it wasn’t brought up before. Yeah, duration on the portal should be shorter. Fifth, traps and tricks are good for fighting this kind of tactic. You can also basically stop this thief and his entire strategy if you watch around the keep for his group of friends. Unless you think he can solo the lord faster than a scout can respond, his entire portal friends in strategy is a waste if you just keep an eye out. The enemy only has a few good portal spots from outer to inner in most cases, SM excluded, so you don’t need to find the thief just the reinforcements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I love the people scrambling trying to make an excuse for a broken mechanic that should not exist in the game, inside a structure or not.I also see lots of people are bad thieves. If the build ONLY had high stealth up time, that would be fine, however it is in combination with very high mobility AND portal. Believe me, when you come for me, I already have portal placed, reveal me and I will be 2,000+ range away as I hit the trap. People also forget that a trap is static on the ground, costs supply, has a long cast time, you can only place one at a time, and you have to camp close to it, as I have been on both sides of this. Add in instant build swaps now and it gets really stupid. Stealth, mobility, evades, reveal removal AND portal etc. Once I am far away from you, if you are still chasing or someone is on the other side of structure, I am going to jump out, often times they see this thinking "yay!!", but guess what, someone was stupid enough to give thief portal, so I just port right back in and because of how it works, I can place it immediately again and jump back out if in trouble.The problem is as someone stated above, people hated mes because of portal, but I didn't see an issue with it, as with mes you had to hide, and you had to hide to start with in most cases, not after the squad lost. However mes didn't have the stealth uptime even traited to do much other than hide in specific spots, that are well known to most roamers. And if you were spotted, it was over, you don't have the mobility and stealth uptime to be able to reset and hide again, which is not true for thief, as you can reset for hours.The fact that people are suggesting this is "ok" because you can get 30-40 people to chase ONE PERSON to finally kill them is well....I don't think much else needs to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug.4930 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:I love the people scrambling trying to make an excuse for a broken mechanic that should not exist in the game, inside a structure or not.I also see lots of people are bad thieves. If the build ONLY had high stealth up time, that would be fine, however it is in combination with very high mobility AND portal. Believe me, when you come for me, I already have portal placed, reveal me and I will be 2,000+ range away as I hit the trap. People also forget that a trap is static on the ground, costs supply, has a long cast time, you can only place one at a time, and you have to camp close to it, as I have been on both sides of this. Add in instant build swaps now and it gets really stupid. Stealth, mobility, evades, reveal removal AND portal etc. Once I am far away from you, if you are still chasing or someone is on the other side of structure, I am going to jump out, often times they see this thinking "yay!!", but guess what, someone was stupid enough to give thief portal, so I just port right back in and because of how it works, I can place it immediately again and jump back out if in trouble.The problem is as someone stated above, people hated mes because of portal, but I didn't see an issue with it, as with mes you had to hide, and you had to hide to start with in most cases, not after the squad lost. However mes didn't have the stealth uptime even traited to do much other than hide in specific spots, that are well known to most roamers. And if you were spotted, it was over, you don't have the mobility and stealth uptime to be able to reset and hide again, which is not true for thief, as you can reset for hours.The fact that people are suggesting this is "ok" because you can get 30-40 people to chase ONE PERSON to finally kill them is well....I don't think much else needs to be said.Everything you said is 100% true.But, not gonna lie it does feel kind of nice to have a broken mechanic that allows a small group to get one over on the larger group. The amount of times I've wanted to throw my keyboard because we lost a 2v5 solely because of downstate being the crutch for larger groups that it is, or trying to escape from 10 people only for them to constantly keep you in combat with mounts that should be deleted is numerous beyond counting. As broken as it is, I cant deny the personal satisfaction I feel when i can finally get some small revenge by taking away a t3 keep with 3 players from a group of players who need to 20v3 to win fights. Does that make me a bit of a tool? maybe, nobody's perfect I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bish.8627 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Just have stealth be disabled and reveal when a keep/tower is taken for x amount of time. Honestly thief escape right now is beyond broken coupled with perma stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virdo.1540 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 They just need to remove permastealth.Stealth should be like superspeed & Shouldnt stack in timeAnd remove Reveal-Cleanse. Why do thieves get stealth + the ability to counter their stealth-counter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sector.9634 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 If it is so easy do it.Get in keep, stack 30 mins invis and port your buddys which have wait 30 mins in - and do fast and sneaky the lord.If it is so easy feel free to do it every day.I guess now, if this supertrick is released the keeps are falling every 30 mins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pninak.1069 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I am a mesmer player and I can see why thief still needs mes to capture a keep, because portal can't transport more people. the trouble I have is placing all the traps and the fact that you need to know where thiefs like to stack their stealth duration. I mean they won't do it in a place easily visible so you got a small number of places in the keep available for stealth only. But I wouldn't mind if zergs preemptivly drained the entire supply depot to not give the other zerg a backup at all and less reason to capture in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knite.1542 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 @saerni.2584 said:Let me get this right. So your keep gets broken into, both outer and inner. Which you see because you are involved in the fight to defend. Then a thief who stayed behind spends 30 minutes stacking stealth and avoiding reveals from any number of people who are trying to catch them. Which, is because they lost the fight to take the keep and presumably are decently outnumbered.Then, after some time, up to 30 minutes of stealth stacking and avoiding reveals later they manage to bring some allies using Shadow Portal into inner. And then that group manages to beat the keep lord without anyone knowing about it. When did this happen or did you just dream it up? I've literally done this lol. It is pretty easy. I've also done it for reclaiming objectives that were captured from my team. Stay behind and hide in stealth. Your 30 minute number is high though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlitheSlivier.1908 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 it's not an issue with stealth. And they should remove sentries ability to apply reveal, but add more. It's like "hey, i don't like this class, let's make it so they can't play here".The issue is that portals shouldn't work through walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 @knite.1542 said:@saerni.2584 said:Let me get this right. So your keep gets broken into, both outer and inner. Which you see because you are involved in the fight to defend. Then a thief who stayed behind spends 30 minutes stacking stealth and avoiding reveals from any number of people who are trying to catch them. Which, is because they lost the fight to take the keep and presumably are decently outnumbered.Then, after some time, up to 30 minutes of stealth stacking and avoiding reveals later they manage to bring some allies using Shadow Portal into inner. And then that group manages to beat the keep lord without anyone knowing about it. When did this happen or did you just dream it up? I've literally done this lol. It is pretty easy. I've also done it for reclaiming objectives that were captured from my team. Stay behind and hide in stealth. Your 30 minute number is high though. Reclaiming towers it works well. For keeps you get 5 minutes of Marked. Really hard to stealth longer than 2 seconds with that on you. The 30 minutes was based off how long someone said a thief would hide in a keep to port their friends inside to ninja it. For sure, you could just wait 5 minutes inside but that depends on no one sticking around inside the keep to scout. The only way a thief can pull off permastealth ninja caps in a keep is to break into the keep by force, usually with a group. So if the group comes back within a short time it’s not a surprise and the defending group can fight them off again. Often, when I back cap a tower I just hide out of visual sight and then port in a few pugs wandering by to retake the tower once everyone has left. People don’t bother to sweep or anything. That’s how blackcaps happen most of the time. Stuff like Hills, I can only take back this way if the enemy is just k-training and doesn’t have scouts keeping an eye on things. But I could probably have done the same with a catapult and a couple of friends regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 @knite.1542 said:@saerni.2584 said:Let me get this right. So your keep gets broken into, both outer and inner. Which you see because you are involved in the fight to defend. Then a thief who stayed behind spends 30 minutes stacking stealth and avoiding reveals from any number of people who are trying to catch them. Which, is because they lost the fight to take the keep and presumably are decently outnumbered.Then, after some time, up to 30 minutes of stealth stacking and avoiding reveals later they manage to bring some allies using Shadow Portal into inner. And then that group manages to beat the keep lord without anyone knowing about it. When did this happen or did you just dream it up? I've literally done this lol. It is pretty easy. I've also done it for reclaiming objectives that were captured from my team. Stay behind and hide in stealth. Your 30 minute number is high though. And that's the main problem, no one bothers to sweep anymore, mostly because this issue doesn't happen a lot unless maybe on a dying server or a dead time zone and that keep would go down to a solo cata anyway. I haven't seen anything like that with a Keep for a couple of years and during our servers off hours. Even in prime time on our server which is decently populated no one really bothers to sweep but but they'll get seen and revealed or circle cleaved and cc'ed. I have seen towers go down easy recently but that's due to call outs being ignored because no one wants to jump back in queue and miss a big three way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 @CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:Let me get this right. So your keep gets broken into, both outer and inner. Which you see because you are involved in the fight to defend. Then a thief who stayed behind spends 30 minutes stacking stealth and avoiding reveals from any number of people who are trying to catch them. Which, is because they lost the fight to take the keep and presumably are decently outnumbered.Then, after some time, up to 30 minutes of stealth stacking and avoiding reveals later they manage to bring some allies using Shadow Portal into inner. And then that group manages to beat the keep lord without anyone knowing about it. When did this happen or did you just dream it up? Lol are you kitten me? Avoiding reveals are easy as hell. And since when is WvW about the entire group trying to find 1 stealthing thief? This happens on a weekly baisis. I even do it on my thief whenever I play it. So you don’t sweep for thief and Mesmer after? Like, sure, one reveal is easy. Several over the span of 10 seconds will be much much harder to stick around and stay alive.If you can’t be bothered then that thief and the group deserve that cap imo.No one what so ever has said anything about mesmer. Dont even try to compare the 2. I have no problem with mesmer at all. Sure they can hide but are easily found with "Sniff" or by just running around.A completely different story when it comes to thieves who are permanetly invisible. And unless an entire zerg is chasing after me when I play my thief I wont be found. Doesn't matter the amount of reveal they have. Avoiding it is easy. You honestly just sound like a pathetic thief main who enjoy abusing broken mechanics because you lack skill. Stop trying to justify broken mechanics. If that Zerg was smart, they would use stealth traps all over the place. I'll file what you said under 'Things That Didn't Happen'.Yes, have an entire squad drop 50 stealth reveal traps (which even at the low cost of 5 per trap, drains up to 250 supply). Which also only work IF you chase a Deadeye into it in the first place. Even that is hardly balanced. There is NO other class which would demand this amount of supply waste/usage. Meanwhile, a good Deadeye is either portaling out of the keep and back in. Skillfully evading the few warrior/engineers with their long reveal cooldowns and IF caught, using Shadow Meld to re-stealth and escape (and if he has half a brain, avoid earlier placed traps unless he has the memory of an amoeba and the perception of a piece of wood).Sorry, but if you hare having issues as DE to not remain in a keep, you are just bad at your class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 No point fighting mechanics the developers obviously love, thus no point arguing about it because it won't change.Who wants to waste time sweeping to chase down a near perma stealth class that can also cancel reveal?This is fun for the idiot with the nomad build in high stealth and mobility, not the people who have to chase this garbage.Rather watch paint dry than deal with stupid mechanics anymore, I'll come back to backcap when you're done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 @Cyninja.2954 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:Let me get this right. So your keep gets broken into, both outer and inner. Which you see because you are involved in the fight to defend. Then a thief who stayed behind spends 30 minutes stacking stealth and avoiding reveals from any number of people who are trying to catch them. Which, is because they lost the fight to take the keep and presumably are decently outnumbered.Then, after some time, up to 30 minutes of stealth stacking and avoiding reveals later they manage to bring some allies using Shadow Portal into inner. And then that group manages to beat the keep lord without anyone knowing about it. When did this happen or did you just dream it up? Lol are you kitten me? Avoiding reveals are easy as hell. And since when is WvW about the entire group trying to find 1 stealthing thief? This happens on a weekly baisis. I even do it on my thief whenever I play it. So you don’t sweep for thief and Mesmer after? Like, sure, one reveal is easy. Several over the span of 10 seconds will be much much harder to stick around and stay alive.If you can’t be bothered then that thief and the group deserve that cap imo.No one what so ever has said anything about mesmer. Dont even try to compare the 2. I have no problem with mesmer at all. Sure they can hide but are easily found with "Sniff" or by just running around.A completely different story when it comes to thieves who are permanetly invisible. And unless an entire zerg is chasing after me when I play my thief I wont be found. Doesn't matter the amount of reveal they have. Avoiding it is easy. You honestly just sound like a pathetic thief main who enjoy abusing broken mechanics because you lack skill. Stop trying to justify broken mechanics. If that Zerg was smart, they would use stealth traps all over the place. I'll file what you said under 'Things That Didn't Happen'.Yes, have an entire squad drop 50 stealth reveal traps (which even at the low cost of 5 per trap, drains up to 250 supply). Which also only work IF you chase a Deadeye into it in the first place. Even that is hardly balanced. There is NO other class which would demand this amount of supply waste/usage. Meanwhile, a good Deadeye is either portaling out of the keep and back in. Skillfully evading the few warrior/engineers with their long reveal cooldowns and IF caught, using Shadow Meld to re-stealth and escape (and if he has half a brain, avoid earlier placed traps unless he has the memory of an amoeba and the perception of a piece of wood).Sorry, but if you hare having issues as DE to not remain in a keep, you are just bad at your class.I actually don't have issues remaining in keeps because of a few easy tricks. Cast portal on inner right next to the spawn gates, run away to get out of Marked territory, port as soon as the CD is almost up and replace portal, repeat. If I get caught and people try to place traps and damage on my portal spot, I have an ally go in first to be my damage sponge, drop portal and run away again. It's not hard, but what am I actually accomplishing? Being a pest, that's it. It's literally what my job there is since I don't have 20 person portals and I don't often have mesmers on hand to do that for me. If I manage to outsmart a map blob and get a few people in to quick flip something, then I say I earned it because they didn't pay attention. They can usually take it back anyway because we didn't have the numbers to defend it in the first place. Also, Nomad gear and Rebirth runes because I like not dying but still doing 5k on Death's Judgment for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 @CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:Let me get this right. So your keep gets broken into, both outer and inner. Which you see because you are involved in the fight to defend. Then a thief who stayed behind spends 30 minutes stacking stealth and avoiding reveals from any number of people who are trying to catch them. Which, is because they lost the fight to take the keep and presumably are decently outnumbered.Then, after some time, up to 30 minutes of stealth stacking and avoiding reveals later they manage to bring some allies using Shadow Portal into inner. And then that group manages to beat the keep lord without anyone knowing about it. When did this happen or did you just dream it up? Lol are you kitten me? Avoiding reveals are easy as hell. And since when is WvW about the entire group trying to find 1 stealthing thief? This happens on a weekly baisis. I even do it on my thief whenever I play it. So you don’t sweep for thief and Mesmer after? Like, sure, one reveal is easy. Several over the span of 10 seconds will be much much harder to stick around and stay alive.If you can’t be bothered then that thief and the group deserve that cap imo.No one what so ever has said anything about mesmer. Dont even try to compare the 2. I have no problem with mesmer at all. Sure they can hide but are easily found with "Sniff" or by just running around.A completely different story when it comes to thieves who are permanetly invisible. And unless an entire zerg is chasing after me when I play my thief I wont be found. Doesn't matter the amount of reveal they have. Avoiding it is easy. You honestly just sound like a pathetic thief main who enjoy abusing broken mechanics because you lack skill. Stop trying to justify broken mechanics. If that Zerg was smart, they would use stealth traps all over the place. I'll file what you said under 'Things That Didn't Happen'.Yes, have an entire squad drop 50 stealth reveal traps (which even at the low cost of 5 per trap, drains up to 250 supply). Which also only work IF you chase a Deadeye into it in the first place. Even that is hardly balanced. There is NO other class which would demand this amount of supply waste/usage. Meanwhile, a good Deadeye is either portaling out of the keep and back in. Skillfully evading the few warrior/engineers with their long reveal cooldowns and IF caught, using Shadow Meld to re-stealth and escape (and if he has half a brain, avoid earlier placed traps unless he has the memory of an amoeba and the perception of a piece of wood).Sorry, but if you hare having issues as DE to not remain in a keep, you are just bad at your class.I actually don't have issues remaining in keeps because of a few easy tricks. Cast portal on inner right next to the spawn gates, run away to get out of Marked territory, port as soon as the CD is almost up and replace portal, repeat. If I get caught and people try to place traps and damage on my portal spot, I have an ally go in first to be my damage sponge, drop portal and run away again. It's not hard, but what am I actually accomplishing? Being a pest, that's it. It's literally what my job there is since I don't have 20 person portals and I don't often have mesmers on hand to do that for me. If I manage to outsmart a map blob and get a few people in to quick flip something, then I say I earned it because they didn't pay attention. They can usually take it back anyway because we didn't have the numbers to defend it in the first place. Also, Nomad gear and Rebirth runes because I like not dying but still doing 5k on Death's Judgment for some reason. So, you basically admit that a good thief, and DE especially, has no issue to remain in an objective indefinitely, but then see no issue with it?Stop looking at this game from a "oh we flip T0 objectives" all day long, but from an actual "we have a built out T3 objectives and all 3 sides have been sieging up the entire day to get ready for prime time". Especially on EU, WvW is not as dead as it is on NA outside of T5 (and even T5 sees some action at current player numbers).That "portal issue", good thing public squads can bring mesmers then isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambeleg.7632 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 @cobbah.3102 said:@"Calle.8746" said:How long is this gonna be a thing? Put some kind of restriction on it or remove the kitten Shadow Portal from WvW. Annoying as kitten having some deadeye perma stealth in a T3 keep for 30 minutes only to port in his buddies all sneaky and cap it without anyone noticing. This can't be working as intended?Till the end of time or the release of Alliances take your pick remembering at all times it is Anet.Those Alliances that keep being "on the table" since 2 years ago?Keep waiting... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 @Cyninja.2954 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:Let me get this right. So your keep gets broken into, both outer and inner. Which you see because you are involved in the fight to defend. Then a thief who stayed behind spends 30 minutes stacking stealth and avoiding reveals from any number of people who are trying to catch them. Which, is because they lost the fight to take the keep and presumably are decently outnumbered.Then, after some time, up to 30 minutes of stealth stacking and avoiding reveals later they manage to bring some allies using Shadow Portal into inner. And then that group manages to beat the keep lord without anyone knowing about it. When did this happen or did you just dream it up? Lol are you kitten me? Avoiding reveals are easy as hell. And since when is WvW about the entire group trying to find 1 stealthing thief? This happens on a weekly baisis. I even do it on my thief whenever I play it. So you don’t sweep for thief and Mesmer after? Like, sure, one reveal is easy. Several over the span of 10 seconds will be much much harder to stick around and stay alive.If you can’t be bothered then that thief and the group deserve that cap imo.No one what so ever has said anything about mesmer. Dont even try to compare the 2. I have no problem with mesmer at all. Sure they can hide but are easily found with "Sniff" or by just running around.A completely different story when it comes to thieves who are permanetly invisible. And unless an entire zerg is chasing after me when I play my thief I wont be found. Doesn't matter the amount of reveal they have. Avoiding it is easy. You honestly just sound like a pathetic thief main who enjoy abusing broken mechanics because you lack skill. Stop trying to justify broken mechanics. If that Zerg was smart, they would use stealth traps all over the place. I'll file what you said under 'Things That Didn't Happen'.Yes, have an entire squad drop 50 stealth reveal traps (which even at the low cost of 5 per trap, drains up to 250 supply). Which also only work IF you chase a Deadeye into it in the first place. Even that is hardly balanced. There is NO other class which would demand this amount of supply waste/usage. Meanwhile, a good Deadeye is either portaling out of the keep and back in. Skillfully evading the few warrior/engineers with their long reveal cooldowns and IF caught, using Shadow Meld to re-stealth and escape (and if he has half a brain, avoid earlier placed traps unless he has the memory of an amoeba and the perception of a piece of wood).Sorry, but if you hare having issues as DE to not remain in a keep, you are just bad at your class.I actually don't have issues remaining in keeps because of a few easy tricks. Cast portal on inner right next to the spawn gates, run away to get out of Marked territory, port as soon as the CD is almost up and replace portal, repeat. If I get caught and people try to place traps and damage on my portal spot, I have an ally go in first to be my damage sponge, drop portal and run away again. It's not hard, but what am I actually accomplishing? Being a pest, that's it. It's literally what my job there is since I don't have 20 person portals and I don't often have mesmers on hand to do that for me. If I manage to outsmart a map blob and get a few people in to quick flip something, then I say I earned it because they didn't pay attention. They can usually take it back anyway because we didn't have the numbers to defend it in the first place. Also, Nomad gear and Rebirth runes because I like not dying but still doing 5k on Death's Judgment for some reason. So, you basically admit that a good thief, and DE especially, has no issue to remain in an objective indefinitely, but then see no issue with it?Stop looking at this game from a "oh we flip T0 objectives" all day long, but from an actual "we have a built out T3 objectives and all 3 sides have been sieging up the entire day to get ready for prime time". Especially on EU, WvW is not as dead as it is on NA outside of T5 (and even T5 sees some action at current player numbers).That "portal issue", good thing public squads can bring mesmers then isn't it?I have looked at it from that perspective too. If anyone gets to lord on a T3 objective we own, I assume there is a stealth thief inside before I don't. I know where the best hiding spots are and I always stress to sweep and use stealth traps. Here's why I say it's fair game; it's not impossible to catch me. If they know I'm there, the only way I can reliably get away is if it's my own spawn keep and I run to the safe zone. DE is nowhere near as fast as DD and even with Shortbow, it's not hard to keep up with me. The moment I can't stealth, I'm in trouble, and if I use my portal to escape and they find me because I'm marked on their minimap, I have no choice but to bail out. I have little kill power besides DJ which reveals me and isn't exactly reliable vs awake players, and I have almost no stun breaks if I want to hold stealth and not leave giant AoEs giving me away. Shiro revs, other non DE thieves, and rangers can often keep up with me or just pew pew me from behind. My biggest asset is not being seen, the moment they know im there, there are ways to stop me and stealth traps are often how it happens because it quite literally turns my build off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 @CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:Let me get this right. So your keep gets broken into, both outer and inner. Which you see because you are involved in the fight to defend. Then a thief who stayed behind spends 30 minutes stacking stealth and avoiding reveals from any number of people who are trying to catch them. Which, is because they lost the fight to take the keep and presumably are decently outnumbered.Then, after some time, up to 30 minutes of stealth stacking and avoiding reveals later they manage to bring some allies using Shadow Portal into inner. And then that group manages to beat the keep lord without anyone knowing about it. When did this happen or did you just dream it up? Lol are you kitten me? Avoiding reveals are easy as hell. And since when is WvW about the entire group trying to find 1 stealthing thief? This happens on a weekly baisis. I even do it on my thief whenever I play it. So you don’t sweep for thief and Mesmer after? Like, sure, one reveal is easy. Several over the span of 10 seconds will be much much harder to stick around and stay alive.If you can’t be bothered then that thief and the group deserve that cap imo.No one what so ever has said anything about mesmer. Dont even try to compare the 2. I have no problem with mesmer at all. Sure they can hide but are easily found with "Sniff" or by just running around.A completely different story when it comes to thieves who are permanetly invisible. And unless an entire zerg is chasing after me when I play my thief I wont be found. Doesn't matter the amount of reveal they have. Avoiding it is easy. You honestly just sound like a pathetic thief main who enjoy abusing broken mechanics because you lack skill. Stop trying to justify broken mechanics. If that Zerg was smart, they would use stealth traps all over the place. I'll file what you said under 'Things That Didn't Happen'.Yes, have an entire squad drop 50 stealth reveal traps (which even at the low cost of 5 per trap, drains up to 250 supply). Which also only work IF you chase a Deadeye into it in the first place. Even that is hardly balanced. There is NO other class which would demand this amount of supply waste/usage. Meanwhile, a good Deadeye is either portaling out of the keep and back in. Skillfully evading the few warrior/engineers with their long reveal cooldowns and IF caught, using Shadow Meld to re-stealth and escape (and if he has half a brain, avoid earlier placed traps unless he has the memory of an amoeba and the perception of a piece of wood).Sorry, but if you hare having issues as DE to not remain in a keep, you are just bad at your class.I actually don't have issues remaining in keeps because of a few easy tricks. Cast portal on inner right next to the spawn gates, run away to get out of Marked territory, port as soon as the CD is almost up and replace portal, repeat. If I get caught and people try to place traps and damage on my portal spot, I have an ally go in first to be my damage sponge, drop portal and run away again. It's not hard, but what am I actually accomplishing? Being a pest, that's it. It's literally what my job there is since I don't have 20 person portals and I don't often have mesmers on hand to do that for me. If I manage to outsmart a map blob and get a few people in to quick flip something, then I say I earned it because they didn't pay attention. They can usually take it back anyway because we didn't have the numbers to defend it in the first place. Also, Nomad gear and Rebirth runes because I like not dying but still doing 5k on Death's Judgment for some reason. So, you basically admit that a good thief, and DE especially, has no issue to remain in an objective indefinitely, but then see no issue with it?Stop looking at this game from a "oh we flip T0 objectives" all day long, but from an actual "we have a built out T3 objectives and all 3 sides have been sieging up the entire day to get ready for prime time". Especially on EU, WvW is not as dead as it is on NA outside of T5 (and even T5 sees some action at current player numbers).That "portal issue", good thing public squads can bring mesmers then isn't it?I have looked at it from that perspective too. If anyone gets to lord on a T3 objective we own, I assume there is a stealth thief inside before I don't. I know where the best hiding spots are and I always stress to sweep and use stealth traps. Here's why I say it's fair game; it's not impossible to catch me. If they know I'm there, the only way I can reliably get away is if it's my own spawn keep and I run to the safe zone. DE is nowhere near as fast as DD and even with Shortbow, it's not hard to keep up with me. The moment I can't stealth, I'm in trouble, and if I use my portal to escape and they find me because I'm marked on their minimap, I have no choice but to bail out. I have little kill power besides DJ which reveals me and isn't exactly reliable vs awake players, and I have almost no stun breaks if I want to hold stealth and not leave giant AoEs giving me away. Shiro revs, other non DE thieves, and rangers can often keep up with me or just pew pew me from behind. My biggest asset is not being seen, the moment they know im there, there are ways to stop me and stealth traps are often how it happens because it quite literally turns my build off. Nobody said it's impossible to catch a thief. The question and argument raised is: is the effort required balanced with the current thief skill set and counter skill set on other classes or versus stealth?Also, DE, while less mobile than a DD is still a thief, and still vastly more mobile than 8 other classes in this game. Exactly, the moment you can't stealth. So let's address that then, that's what this topic is about. The irony of the classes you mentioned, which by your own statement can barely keep up: none of them have reveals, at least not when trying to be as mobile as possible, well except another thief. So, where exactly is the counter to thief besides thief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Not to play devils advocate, however if a wall goes down in a t3 keep, its common knowledge to do a mesmer sweep, which now involves the warclaws sniff. Should a couple people have done a Sniff, then the dot would have appeared and stealth traps would be laid. As a thief who has done this, and someone who sweeps for mesmers/thiefs, its fairly easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:Not to play devils advocate, however if a wall goes down in a t3 keep, its common knowledge to do a mesmer sweep, which now involves the warclaws sniff. Should a couple people have done a Sniff, then the dot would have appeared and stealth traps would be laid. As a thief who has done this, and someone who sweeps for mesmers/thiefs, its fairly easy.No one has issues with mesmers in todays meta.Yes, the best/only counter to thief is another thief, we know. So that's balanced then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlitheSlivier.1908 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 @Cyninja.2954 said:@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:Not to play devils advocate, however if a wall goes down in a t3 keep, its common knowledge to do a mesmer sweep, which now involves the warclaws sniff. Should a couple people have done a Sniff, then the dot would have appeared and stealth traps would be laid. As a thief who has done this, and someone who sweeps for mesmers/thiefs, its fairly easy.No one has issues with mesmers in todays meta.Yes, the best/only counter to thief is another thief, we know. So that's balanced then?Thieves go down easy to many builds. Exception is that condi thief build that got nerfed (tho idk how much it helped). That is the only thief build in higher level pvp because the others are out classed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 @Cyninja.2954 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:Let me get this right. So your keep gets broken into, both outer and inner. Which you see because you are involved in the fight to defend. Then a thief who stayed behind spends 30 minutes stacking stealth and avoiding reveals from any number of people who are trying to catch them. Which, is because they lost the fight to take the keep and presumably are decently outnumbered.Then, after some time, up to 30 minutes of stealth stacking and avoiding reveals later they manage to bring some allies using Shadow Portal into inner. And then that group manages to beat the keep lord without anyone knowing about it. When did this happen or did you just dream it up? Lol are you kitten me? Avoiding reveals are easy as hell. And since when is WvW about the entire group trying to find 1 stealthing thief? This happens on a weekly baisis. I even do it on my thief whenever I play it. So you don’t sweep for thief and Mesmer after? Like, sure, one reveal is easy. Several over the span of 10 seconds will be much much harder to stick around and stay alive.If you can’t be bothered then that thief and the group deserve that cap imo.No one what so ever has said anything about mesmer. Dont even try to compare the 2. I have no problem with mesmer at all. Sure they can hide but are easily found with "Sniff" or by just running around.A completely different story when it comes to thieves who are permanetly invisible. And unless an entire zerg is chasing after me when I play my thief I wont be found. Doesn't matter the amount of reveal they have. Avoiding it is easy. You honestly just sound like a pathetic thief main who enjoy abusing broken mechanics because you lack skill. Stop trying to justify broken mechanics. If that Zerg was smart, they would use stealth traps all over the place. I'll file what you said under 'Things That Didn't Happen'.Yes, have an entire squad drop 50 stealth reveal traps (which even at the low cost of 5 per trap, drains up to 250 supply). Which also only work IF you chase a Deadeye into it in the first place. Even that is hardly balanced. There is NO other class which would demand this amount of supply waste/usage. Meanwhile, a good Deadeye is either portaling out of the keep and back in. Skillfully evading the few warrior/engineers with their long reveal cooldowns and IF caught, using Shadow Meld to re-stealth and escape (and if he has half a brain, avoid earlier placed traps unless he has the memory of an amoeba and the perception of a piece of wood).Sorry, but if you hare having issues as DE to not remain in a keep, you are just bad at your class.I actually don't have issues remaining in keeps because of a few easy tricks. Cast portal on inner right next to the spawn gates, run away to get out of Marked territory, port as soon as the CD is almost up and replace portal, repeat. If I get caught and people try to place traps and damage on my portal spot, I have an ally go in first to be my damage sponge, drop portal and run away again. It's not hard, but what am I actually accomplishing? Being a pest, that's it. It's literally what my job there is since I don't have 20 person portals and I don't often have mesmers on hand to do that for me. If I manage to outsmart a map blob and get a few people in to quick flip something, then I say I earned it because they didn't pay attention. They can usually take it back anyway because we didn't have the numbers to defend it in the first place. Also, Nomad gear and Rebirth runes because I like not dying but still doing 5k on Death's Judgment for some reason. So, you basically admit that a good thief, and DE especially, has no issue to remain in an objective indefinitely, but then see no issue with it?Stop looking at this game from a "oh we flip T0 objectives" all day long, but from an actual "we have a built out T3 objectives and all 3 sides have been sieging up the entire day to get ready for prime time". Especially on EU, WvW is not as dead as it is on NA outside of T5 (and even T5 sees some action at current player numbers).That "portal issue", good thing public squads can bring mesmers then isn't it?I have looked at it from that perspective too. If anyone gets to lord on a T3 objective we own, I assume there is a stealth thief inside before I don't. I know where the best hiding spots are and I always stress to sweep and use stealth traps. Here's why I say it's fair game; it's not impossible to catch me. If they know I'm there, the only way I can reliably get away is if it's my own spawn keep and I run to the safe zone. DE is nowhere near as fast as DD and even with Shortbow, it's not hard to keep up with me. The moment I can't stealth, I'm in trouble, and if I use my portal to escape and they find me because I'm marked on their minimap, I have no choice but to bail out. I have little kill power besides DJ which reveals me and isn't exactly reliable vs awake players, and I have almost no stun breaks if I want to hold stealth and not leave giant AoEs giving me away. Shiro revs, other non DE thieves, and rangers can often keep up with me or just pew pew me from behind. My biggest asset is not being seen, the moment they know im there, there are ways to stop me and stealth traps are often how it happens because it quite literally turns my build off. Nobody said it's impossible to catch a thief. The question and argument raised is: is the effort required balanced with the current thief skill set and counter skill set on other classes or versus stealth?Also, DE, while less mobile than a DD is still a thief, and still vastly more mobile than 8 other classes in this game. Exactly, the moment you can't stealth. So let's address that then, that's what this topic is about. The irony of the classes you mentioned, which by your own statement can barely keep up: none of them have reveals, at least not when trying to be as mobile as possible, well except another thief. So, where exactly is the counter to thief besides thief?Like I said earlier, people don't put in the effort and that's really the biggest problem for any server losing their stuff. If they don't have coverage, then thieves or mesmers aren't the problem for them. You also might have read that post you quoted but you glossed over it because they pretty much told you how to catch that DE and it wouldn't take much, but you're still claiming it's some massive effort when it's not. I don't know what to tell you, you have the same utility budget as they do and can either counter their focus or you can stick with whatever you have to run around with blobs or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 @SlitheSlivier.1908 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:Not to play devils advocate, however if a wall goes down in a t3 keep, its common knowledge to do a mesmer sweep, which now involves the warclaws sniff. Should a couple people have done a Sniff, then the dot would have appeared and stealth traps would be laid. As a thief who has done this, and someone who sweeps for mesmers/thiefs, its fairly easy.No one has issues with mesmers in todays meta.Yes, the best/only counter to thief is another thief, we know. So that's balanced then?Thieves go down easy to many builds. Exception is that condi thief build that got nerfed (tho idk how much it helped). That is the only thief build in higher level pvp because the others are out classed. This isn't about fighting a thief. This is about catching a thief that willingly does not want to get found in an objektive of varying size and layout.Sorry you don't see the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 @kash.9213 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:Let me get this right. So your keep gets broken into, both outer and inner. Which you see because you are involved in the fight to defend. Then a thief who stayed behind spends 30 minutes stacking stealth and avoiding reveals from any number of people who are trying to catch them. Which, is because they lost the fight to take the keep and presumably are decently outnumbered.Then, after some time, up to 30 minutes of stealth stacking and avoiding reveals later they manage to bring some allies using Shadow Portal into inner. And then that group manages to beat the keep lord without anyone knowing about it. When did this happen or did you just dream it up? Lol are you kitten me? Avoiding reveals are easy as hell. And since when is WvW about the entire group trying to find 1 stealthing thief? This happens on a weekly baisis. I even do it on my thief whenever I play it. So you don’t sweep for thief and Mesmer after? Like, sure, one reveal is easy. Several over the span of 10 seconds will be much much harder to stick around and stay alive.If you can’t be bothered then that thief and the group deserve that cap imo.No one what so ever has said anything about mesmer. Dont even try to compare the 2. I have no problem with mesmer at all. Sure they can hide but are easily found with "Sniff" or by just running around.A completely different story when it comes to thieves who are permanetly invisible. And unless an entire zerg is chasing after me when I play my thief I wont be found. Doesn't matter the amount of reveal they have. Avoiding it is easy. You honestly just sound like a pathetic thief main who enjoy abusing broken mechanics because you lack skill. Stop trying to justify broken mechanics. If that Zerg was smart, they would use stealth traps all over the place. I'll file what you said under 'Things That Didn't Happen'.Yes, have an entire squad drop 50 stealth reveal traps (which even at the low cost of 5 per trap, drains up to 250 supply). Which also only work IF you chase a Deadeye into it in the first place. Even that is hardly balanced. There is NO other class which would demand this amount of supply waste/usage. Meanwhile, a good Deadeye is either portaling out of the keep and back in. Skillfully evading the few warrior/engineers with their long reveal cooldowns and IF caught, using Shadow Meld to re-stealth and escape (and if he has half a brain, avoid earlier placed traps unless he has the memory of an amoeba and the perception of a piece of wood).Sorry, but if you hare having issues as DE to not remain in a keep, you are just bad at your class.I actually don't have issues remaining in keeps because of a few easy tricks. Cast portal on inner right next to the spawn gates, run away to get out of Marked territory, port as soon as the CD is almost up and replace portal, repeat. If I get caught and people try to place traps and damage on my portal spot, I have an ally go in first to be my damage sponge, drop portal and run away again. It's not hard, but what am I actually accomplishing? Being a pest, that's it. It's literally what my job there is since I don't have 20 person portals and I don't often have mesmers on hand to do that for me. If I manage to outsmart a map blob and get a few people in to quick flip something, then I say I earned it because they didn't pay attention. They can usually take it back anyway because we didn't have the numbers to defend it in the first place. Also, Nomad gear and Rebirth runes because I like not dying but still doing 5k on Death's Judgment for some reason. So, you basically admit that a good thief, and DE especially, has no issue to remain in an objective indefinitely, but then see no issue with it?Stop looking at this game from a "oh we flip T0 objectives" all day long, but from an actual "we have a built out T3 objectives and all 3 sides have been sieging up the entire day to get ready for prime time". Especially on EU, WvW is not as dead as it is on NA outside of T5 (and even T5 sees some action at current player numbers).That "portal issue", good thing public squads can bring mesmers then isn't it?I have looked at it from that perspective too. If anyone gets to lord on a T3 objective we own, I assume there is a stealth thief inside before I don't. I know where the best hiding spots are and I always stress to sweep and use stealth traps. Here's why I say it's fair game; it's not impossible to catch me. If they know I'm there, the only way I can reliably get away is if it's my own spawn keep and I run to the safe zone. DE is nowhere near as fast as DD and even with Shortbow, it's not hard to keep up with me. The moment I can't stealth, I'm in trouble, and if I use my portal to escape and they find me because I'm marked on their minimap, I have no choice but to bail out. I have little kill power besides DJ which reveals me and isn't exactly reliable vs awake players, and I have almost no stun breaks if I want to hold stealth and not leave giant AoEs giving me away. Shiro revs, other non DE thieves, and rangers can often keep up with me or just pew pew me from behind. My biggest asset is not being seen, the moment they know im there, there are ways to stop me and stealth traps are often how it happens because it quite literally turns my build off. Nobody said it's impossible to catch a thief. The question and argument raised is: is the effort required balanced with the current thief skill set and counter skill set on other classes or versus stealth?Also, DE, while less mobile than a DD is still a thief, and still vastly more mobile than 8 other classes in this game. Exactly, the moment you can't stealth. So let's address that then, that's what this topic is about. The irony of the classes you mentioned, which by your own statement can barely keep up: none of them have reveals, at least not when trying to be as mobile as possible, well except another thief. So, where exactly is the counter to thief besides thief?Like I said earlier, people don't put in the effort and that's really the biggest problem for any server losing their stuff. If they don't have coverage, then thieves or mesmers aren't the problem for them. You also might have read that post you quoted but you glossed over it because they pretty much told you how to catch that DE and it wouldn't take much, but you're still claiming it's some massive effort when it's not. I don't know what to tell you, you have the same utility budget as they do and can either counter their focus or you can stick with whatever you have to run around with blobs or whatever.Name 1 class which can both reveal and chase down a thief which does not want to get caught, besides another thief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 @Cyninja.2954 said:@kash.9213 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:@Calle.8746 said:@saerni.2584 said:Let me get this right. So your keep gets broken into, both outer and inner. Which you see because you are involved in the fight to defend. Then a thief who stayed behind spends 30 minutes stacking stealth and avoiding reveals from any number of people who are trying to catch them. Which, is because they lost the fight to take the keep and presumably are decently outnumbered.Then, after some time, up to 30 minutes of stealth stacking and avoiding reveals later they manage to bring some allies using Shadow Portal into inner. And then that group manages to beat the keep lord without anyone knowing about it. When did this happen or did you just dream it up? Lol are you kitten me? Avoiding reveals are easy as hell. And since when is WvW about the entire group trying to find 1 stealthing thief? This happens on a weekly baisis. I even do it on my thief whenever I play it. So you don’t sweep for thief and Mesmer after? Like, sure, one reveal is easy. Several over the span of 10 seconds will be much much harder to stick around and stay alive.If you can’t be bothered then that thief and the group deserve that cap imo.No one what so ever has said anything about mesmer. Dont even try to compare the 2. I have no problem with mesmer at all. Sure they can hide but are easily found with "Sniff" or by just running around.A completely different story when it comes to thieves who are permanetly invisible. And unless an entire zerg is chasing after me when I play my thief I wont be found. Doesn't matter the amount of reveal they have. Avoiding it is easy. You honestly just sound like a pathetic thief main who enjoy abusing broken mechanics because you lack skill. Stop trying to justify broken mechanics. If that Zerg was smart, they would use stealth traps all over the place. I'll file what you said under 'Things That Didn't Happen'.Yes, have an entire squad drop 50 stealth reveal traps (which even at the low cost of 5 per trap, drains up to 250 supply). Which also only work IF you chase a Deadeye into it in the first place. Even that is hardly balanced. There is NO other class which would demand this amount of supply waste/usage. Meanwhile, a good Deadeye is either portaling out of the keep and back in. Skillfully evading the few warrior/engineers with their long reveal cooldowns and IF caught, using Shadow Meld to re-stealth and escape (and if he has half a brain, avoid earlier placed traps unless he has the memory of an amoeba and the perception of a piece of wood).Sorry, but if you hare having issues as DE to not remain in a keep, you are just bad at your class.I actually don't have issues remaining in keeps because of a few easy tricks. Cast portal on inner right next to the spawn gates, run away to get out of Marked territory, port as soon as the CD is almost up and replace portal, repeat. If I get caught and people try to place traps and damage on my portal spot, I have an ally go in first to be my damage sponge, drop portal and run away again. It's not hard, but what am I actually accomplishing? Being a pest, that's it. It's literally what my job there is since I don't have 20 person portals and I don't often have mesmers on hand to do that for me. If I manage to outsmart a map blob and get a few people in to quick flip something, then I say I earned it because they didn't pay attention. They can usually take it back anyway because we didn't have the numbers to defend it in the first place. Also, Nomad gear and Rebirth runes because I like not dying but still doing 5k on Death's Judgment for some reason. So, you basically admit that a good thief, and DE especially, has no issue to remain in an objective indefinitely, but then see no issue with it?Stop looking at this game from a "oh we flip T0 objectives" all day long, but from an actual "we have a built out T3 objectives and all 3 sides have been sieging up the entire day to get ready for prime time". Especially on EU, WvW is not as dead as it is on NA outside of T5 (and even T5 sees some action at current player numbers).That "portal issue", good thing public squads can bring mesmers then isn't it?I have looked at it from that perspective too. If anyone gets to lord on a T3 objective we own, I assume there is a stealth thief inside before I don't. I know where the best hiding spots are and I always stress to sweep and use stealth traps. Here's why I say it's fair game; it's not impossible to catch me. If they know I'm there, the only way I can reliably get away is if it's my own spawn keep and I run to the safe zone. DE is nowhere near as fast as DD and even with Shortbow, it's not hard to keep up with me. The moment I can't stealth, I'm in trouble, and if I use my portal to escape and they find me because I'm marked on their minimap, I have no choice but to bail out. I have little kill power besides DJ which reveals me and isn't exactly reliable vs awake players, and I have almost no stun breaks if I want to hold stealth and not leave giant AoEs giving me away. Shiro revs, other non DE thieves, and rangers can often keep up with me or just pew pew me from behind. My biggest asset is not being seen, the moment they know im there, there are ways to stop me and stealth traps are often how it happens because it quite literally turns my build off. Nobody said it's impossible to catch a thief. The question and argument raised is: is the effort required balanced with the current thief skill set and counter skill set on other classes or versus stealth?Also, DE, while less mobile than a DD is still a thief, and still vastly more mobile than 8 other classes in this game. Exactly, the moment you can't stealth. So let's address that then, that's what this topic is about. The irony of the classes you mentioned, which by your own statement can barely keep up: none of them have reveals, at least not when trying to be as mobile as possible, well except another thief. So, where exactly is the counter to thief besides thief?Like I said earlier, people don't put in the effort and that's really the biggest problem for any server losing their stuff. If they don't have coverage, then thieves or mesmers aren't the problem for them. You also might have read that post you quoted but you glossed over it because they pretty much told you how to catch that DE and it wouldn't take much, but you're still claiming it's some massive effort when it's not. I don't know what to tell you, you have the same utility budget as they do and can either counter their focus or you can stick with whatever you have to run around with blobs or whatever.Name 1 class which can both reveal and chase down a thief which does not want to get caught, besides another thief. I don't have to, that post you quoted before that you mostly ignored named some. Also, it's less about the class and more about what you're willing to do with your build, what you're willing to take on your utility bar or in your inventory, and what the guild claiming the structure is willing to manage and hopefully the server has a culture of taking care of their stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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