The correct way to rework mirage.

[anduriell.6280]

What about reducing the clones to 1 instead 3 and return the second dodge?Reducing the dodges really damage the survivability of any class. Instead the burst potential can be reduced by reducing the number of clones.To make up for it increase the clone HP and does increased damage so it last longer and share the mirage cloak effect with the clone.

[mortrialus.3062]

@anduriell.6280 said:What about reducing the clones to 1 instead 3 and return the second dodge?Reducing the dodges really damage the survivability of any class. Instead the burst potential can be reduced by reducing the number of clones.To make up for it increase the clone HP and does increased damage so it last longer and share the mirage cloak effect with the clone.

Reducing Mirage's clone count would make it literally unplayable.

[Zinzon.4081]

The whole condi mesmer vs power mesmer imbalance comes from clone applying damaging condition, their dps is significally stronger than the power mesmer. It's not normal to be able to auto-attack as 4 and stack damaging condition that each deals dmg based on mesmer condition dmg while power mesmer illusion are not based on mesmer power or barely. That's the core imbalance there. Either remove dmg condis on auto attack and buff condis main skills for mesmer or straight up use real illusion stats. That's the real oversight I think. Condi mesmer will always be so toxic as long as clone apply condis. Imagine clones doing 500-1000 dmg on power instead of the 10-20 dmg they do! That's the current situation with condi mesmer haha.

Also for mirage, just remove ambush on dodge. Ambush on stealth and distorsion and it would be totally fine. Nobody can deal with a burst of condis/power on each of mesmer dodge...

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Zinzon.4081 said:The whole condi mesmer vs power mesmer imbalance comes from clone applying damaging condition, their dps is significally stronger than the power mesmer. It's not normal to be able to auto-attack as 4 and stack damaging condition that each deals dmg based on mesmer condition dmg while power mesmer illusion are not based on mesmer power or barely. That's the core imbalance there. Either remove dmg condis on auto attack and buff condis main skills for mesmer or straight up use real illusion stats. That's the real oversight I think. Condi mesmer will always be so toxic as long as clone apply condis. Imagine clones doing 500-1000 dmg on power instead of the 10-20 dmg they do! That's the current situation with condi mesmer haha.

Also for mirage, just remove ambush on dodge. Ambush on stealth and distorsion and it would be totally fine. Nobody can deal with a burst of condis/power on each of mesmer dodge...

If I got a sugary cookie every time someone with absolutely no idea about mirage suggests changes to mirage I would have diabetes. Please stop.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Fine by me, don't forget to rollback every vigor nerf tho.

[Zinzon.4081]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zinzon.4081 said:The whole condi mesmer vs power mesmer imbalance comes from clone applying damaging condition, their dps is significally stronger than the power mesmer. It's not normal to be able to auto-attack as 4 and stack damaging condition that each deals dmg based on mesmer condition dmg while power mesmer illusion are not based on mesmer power or barely. That's the core imbalance there. Either remove dmg condis on auto attack and buff condis main skills for mesmer or straight up use real illusion stats. That's the real oversight I think. Condi mesmer will always be so toxic as long as clone apply condis. Imagine clones doing 500-1000 dmg on power instead of the 10-20 dmg they do! That's the current situation with condi mesmer haha.

Also for mirage, just remove ambush on dodge. Ambush on stealth and distorsion and it would be totally fine. Nobody can deal with a burst of condis/power on each of mesmer dodge...

If I got a sugary cookie every time someone with absolutely no idea about mirage suggests changes to mirage I would have diabetes. Please stop.

I forgot to add that the double dodge will be roll back. I have questions on your opinion of healthy game design... Let's imagine for 1 sec backstab on dodge roll for thief. That's essentially what mirage gets ¯_(ツ)_/¯. Maybe a lesser backstab but still a backstab... Mirage design IS toxic. It can't be balanced if you don't modifiy the design just like they prove by removing a dodge roll.

Now for the condis mesmer dps on clone, the argument is valid and is the MAIN reason the whole mesmer class is in trash tier atm. They drag down power mesmer because their kit is toxic and just uninterractive and power mesmer suffer from it trait wise and ability wise...

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Zinzon.4081 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zinzon.4081 said:The whole condi mesmer vs power mesmer imbalance comes from clone applying damaging condition, their dps is significally stronger than the power mesmer. It's not normal to be able to auto-attack as 4 and stack damaging condition that each deals dmg based on mesmer condition dmg while power mesmer illusion are not based on mesmer power or barely. That's the core imbalance there. Either remove dmg condis on auto attack and buff condis main skills for mesmer or straight up use real illusion stats. That's the real oversight I think. Condi mesmer will always be so toxic as long as clone apply condis. Imagine clones doing 500-1000 dmg on power instead of the 10-20 dmg they do! That's the current situation with condi mesmer haha.

Also for mirage, just remove ambush on dodge. Ambush on stealth and distorsion and it would be totally fine. Nobody can deal with a burst of condis/power on each of mesmer dodge...

If I got a sugary cookie every time someone with absolutely no idea about mirage suggests changes to mirage I would have diabetes. Please stop.

I forgot to add that the double dodge will be roll back. I have questions on your opinion of healthy game design... Let's imagine for 1 sec backstab on dodge roll for thief. That's essentially what mirage gets ¯_(ツ)_/¯. Maybe a lesser backstab but still a backstab... Mirage design IS toxic. It can't be balanced if you don't modifiy the design just like they prove by removing a dodge roll.

Now for the condis mesmer dps on clone, the argument is valid and is the MAIN reason the whole mesmer class is in trash tier atm. They drag down power mesmer because their kit is toxic and just uninterractive and power mesmer suffer from it trait wise and ability wise...

meta mirage uses sword and axe, both of those weapons clones never hit anything and thus dont provide anything due to condi on auto.thief has lessler backstab on dodge, its called bound and also gives them 10% dmg boost, nobody uses it cuz dash is even more busted.stop typing, you have no clue about mirage.

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

@Zinzon.4081 said:The whole condi mesmer vs power mesmer imbalance comes from clone applying damaging condition, their dps is significally stronger than the power mesmer. It's not normal to be able to auto-attack as 4 and stack damaging condition that each deals dmg based on mesmer condition dmg while power mesmer illusion are not based on mesmer power or barely. That's the core imbalance there. Either remove dmg condis on auto attack and buff condis main skills for mesmer or straight up use real illusion stats. That's the real oversight I think. Condi mesmer will always be so toxic as long as clone apply condis. Imagine clones doing 500-1000 dmg on power instead of the 10-20 dmg they do! That's the current situation with condi mesmer haha.

Also for mirage, just remove ambush on dodge. Ambush on stealth and distorsion and it would be totally fine. Nobody can deal with a burst of condis/power on each of mesmer dodge...

So what does maybe, at MOST 5% of your total damage in an entire match is too much? Just stop.

[Kuma.1503]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zinzon.4081 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zinzon.4081 said:The whole condi mesmer vs power mesmer imbalance comes from clone applying damaging condition, their dps is significally stronger than the power mesmer. It's not normal to be able to auto-attack as 4 and stack damaging condition that each deals dmg based on mesmer condition dmg while power mesmer illusion are not based on mesmer power or barely. That's the core imbalance there. Either remove dmg condis on auto attack and buff condis main skills for mesmer or straight up use real illusion stats. That's the real oversight I think. Condi mesmer will always be so toxic as long as clone apply condis. Imagine clones doing 500-1000 dmg on power instead of the 10-20 dmg they do! That's the current situation with condi mesmer haha.

Also for mirage, just remove ambush on dodge. Ambush on stealth and distorsion and it would be totally fine. Nobody can deal with a burst of condis/power on each of mesmer dodge...

If I got a sugary cookie every time someone with absolutely no idea about mirage suggests changes to mirage I would have diabetes. Please stop.

I forgot to add that the double dodge will be roll back. I have questions on your opinion of healthy game design... Let's imagine for 1 sec backstab on dodge roll for thief. That's essentially what mirage gets ¯_(ツ)_/¯. Maybe a lesser backstab but still a backstab... Mirage design IS toxic. It can't be balanced if you don't modifiy the design just like they prove by removing a dodge roll.

Now for the condis mesmer dps on clone, the argument is valid and is the MAIN reason the whole mesmer class is in trash tier atm. They drag down power mesmer because their kit is toxic and just uninterractive and power mesmer suffer from it trait wise and ability wise...

meta mirage uses sword and axe, both of those weapons clones never hit anything and thus dont provide anything due to condi on auto.thief has lessler backstab on dodge, its called bound and also gives them 10% dmg boost, nobody uses it cuz dash is even more busted.stop typing, you have no clue about mirage.

I'd like to believe he's referencing staff and scepter, which have both been neutered in part due to clone auto dps. Staff especially, which was the target of many complaints back when the Chaos/Sage+Earth rune build was meta.

I still remember the forum posts "It just poops out clones and afks and lets the clones do all the work while spamming invulns and evades".

If the suggestion to remove condi on clone would change anything, It would be enabling them to undo the harsh nerfs to scepter and especially staff, but that would require reworking the entire spec. There are better ways to rework mirage.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zinzon.4081 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zinzon.4081 said:The whole condi mesmer vs power mesmer imbalance comes from clone applying damaging condition, their dps is significally stronger than the power mesmer. It's not normal to be able to auto-attack as 4 and stack damaging condition that each deals dmg based on mesmer condition dmg while power mesmer illusion are not based on mesmer power or barely. That's the core imbalance there. Either remove dmg condis on auto attack and buff condis main skills for mesmer or straight up use real illusion stats. That's the real oversight I think. Condi mesmer will always be so toxic as long as clone apply condis. Imagine clones doing 500-1000 dmg on power instead of the 10-20 dmg they do! That's the current situation with condi mesmer haha.

Also for mirage, just remove ambush on dodge. Ambush on stealth and distorsion and it would be totally fine. Nobody can deal with a burst of condis/power on each of mesmer dodge...

If I got a sugary cookie every time someone with absolutely no idea about mirage suggests changes to mirage I would have diabetes. Please stop.

I forgot to add that the double dodge will be roll back. I have questions on your opinion of healthy game design... Let's imagine for 1 sec backstab on dodge roll for thief. That's essentially what mirage gets ¯_(ツ)_/¯. Maybe a lesser backstab but still a backstab... Mirage design IS toxic. It can't be balanced if you don't modifiy the design just like they prove by removing a dodge roll.

Now for the condis mesmer dps on clone, the argument is valid and is the MAIN reason the whole mesmer class is in trash tier atm. They drag down power mesmer because their kit is toxic and just uninterractive and power mesmer suffer from it trait wise and ability wise...

meta mirage uses sword and axe, both of those weapons clones never hit anything and thus dont provide anything due to condi on auto.thief has lessler backstab on dodge, its called bound and also gives them 10% dmg boost, nobody uses it cuz dash is even more busted.stop typing, you have no clue about mirage.

I'd like to believe he's referencing staff and scepter, which have both been neutered in part due to clone auto dps. Staff especially, which was the target of many complaints back when the Chaos/Sage+Earth rune build was meta.

I still remember the forum posts "It just poops out clones and afks and lets the clones do all the work while spamming invulns and evades".

If the suggestion to remove condi on clone would change anything, It would be enabling them to undo the harsh nerfs to scepter and

especially

staff, but that would require reworking the entire spec. There are better ways to rework mirage.

Everyone that plays mirage knows what he means, but he doesnt know, and he types about it.Its the matter of principle, the least he can fucking do before coming here and typing is educate himself how the spec is played.Personally bunker weaver pisses me off, I have no clue how it works so Im not going on forums to whine about it and post about "reworks"Clone autos suck, scepter clone hits for 300, it misses 50% of the time too and attacks at max range so 1 pixel of movement dodges it. Only clone that actually hits anything is staff one for about ~800-900dmg every ~2s assuming the orb bounces and clone is not casting out of range.And ironically the 3 best IH clones are1 Axe2 GS3 SwordAnd they are not used, wow its almost like something else is the issue, what a concept.

[Shiyo.3578]

Mirage cloak needs to go if mesmers want this class to ever improve.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Shiyo.3578 said:Mirage cloak needs to go if mesmers want this class to ever improve.

You really think Anet would buff anything on mirage if only Mirage Cloak wasn't around?

[Simonoly.4352]

@anduriell.6280 said:What about reducing the clones to 1 instead 3 and return the second dodge?

I'm a proponent of such a trade off. Although 1 less clone would be more than enough.

[Shiyo.3578]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Mirage cloak needs to go if mesmers want this class to ever improve.

You really think Anet would buff anything on mirage if only Mirage Cloak wasn't around?

I'd hope so, it makes balancing the class a nightmare.

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

@anduriell.6280 said:What about reducing the clones to 1 instead 3 and return the second dodge?Reducing the dodges really damage the survivability of any class. Instead the burst potential can be reduced by reducing the number of clones.To make up for it increase the clone HP and does increased damage so it last longer and share the mirage cloak effect with the clone.

The entire point of the spec is to change the gameplay from shatters and using clones as mere ammo to actually keeping clones alive and using them as diversions, and your suggestion is to cap clone count to one?The only way I can see this working is if the singular clone is as damaging and tanky as the real mesmer, and you're given plenty of extra tools to play around with that clone, in order to preserve the concept of deception and distraction.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Mirage cloak needs to go if mesmers want this class to ever improve.

You really think Anet would buff anything on mirage if only Mirage Cloak wasn't around?

I'd hope so, it makes balancing the class a nightmare.

You'd be wrong. Even with Mirage losing an edurance bar thst hasn't seen a restoration of core mesmer.

[whoknocks.4935]

My rework is simple.

-Mirage gets back 2 dodges.

-Dodge doesn't apply Mirage Cloak anymore, so you cannot use dodge while CC.

Replace F4 Distortion with Mirage Cloak.Instead of using dodge to proc Mirage Cloak for ambush and traits, you now have it on the F4 maybe with a 15-20 seconds cooldown, you press F4 and you gain Mirage Cloak and that's it.

Same as Chrono have Contiuum Split and lost Distortion.

You rework is more complex than searching for the proof of God's existence.

Keep it simple.

[Zinzon.4081]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zinzon.4081 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zinzon.4081 said:The whole condi mesmer vs power mesmer imbalance comes from clone applying damaging condition, their dps is significally stronger than the power mesmer. It's not normal to be able to auto-attack as 4 and stack damaging condition that each deals dmg based on mesmer condition dmg while power mesmer illusion are not based on mesmer power or barely. That's the core imbalance there. Either remove dmg condis on auto attack and buff condis main skills for mesmer or straight up use real illusion stats. That's the real oversight I think. Condi mesmer will always be so toxic as long as clone apply condis. Imagine clones doing 500-1000 dmg on power instead of the 10-20 dmg they do! That's the current situation with condi mesmer haha.

Also for mirage, just remove ambush on dodge. Ambush on stealth and distorsion and it would be totally fine. Nobody can deal with a burst of condis/power on each of mesmer dodge...

If I got a sugary cookie every time someone with absolutely no idea about mirage suggests changes to mirage I would have diabetes. Please stop.

I forgot to add that the double dodge will be roll back. I have questions on your opinion of healthy game design... Let's imagine for 1 sec backstab on dodge roll for thief. That's essentially what mirage gets ¯_(ツ)_/¯. Maybe a lesser backstab but still a backstab... Mirage design IS toxic. It can't be balanced if you don't modifiy the design just like they prove by removing a dodge roll.

Now for the condis mesmer dps on clone, the argument is valid and is the MAIN reason the whole mesmer class is in trash tier atm. They drag down power mesmer because their kit is toxic and just uninterractive and power mesmer suffer from it trait wise and ability wise...

meta mirage uses sword and axe, both of those weapons clones never hit anything and thus dont provide anything due to condi on auto.thief has lessler backstab on dodge, its called bound and also gives them 10% dmg boost, nobody uses it cuz dash is even more busted.stop typing, you have no clue about mirage.

I'd like to believe he's referencing staff and scepter, which have both been neutered in part due to clone auto dps. Staff especially, which was the target of many complaints back when the Chaos/Sage+Earth rune build was meta.

I still remember the forum posts "It just poops out clones and afks and lets the clones do all the work while spamming invulns and evades".

If the suggestion to remove condi on clone would change anything, It would be enabling them to undo the harsh nerfs to scepter and

especially

staff, but that would require reworking the entire spec. There are better ways to rework mirage.

Everyone that plays mirage knows what he means, but he doesnt know, and he types about it.Its the matter of principle, the least he can kitten do before coming here and typing is educate himself how the spec is played.Personally bunker weaver pisses me off, I have no clue how it works so Im not going on forums to whine about it and post about "reworks"Clone autos suck, scepter clone hits for 300, it misses 50% of the time too and attacks at max range so 1 pixel of movement dodges it. Only clone that actually hits anything is staff one for about ~800-900dmg every ~2s assuming the orb bounces and clone is not casting out of range.And ironically the 3 best IH clones are1 Axe2 GS3 SwordAnd they are not used, wow its almost like something else is the issue, what a concept.

You just have an incredibly biased opinion about mirage... I am probably too, but I played every profession and their meta build and one of the most cancer kit is mirage and it's condi mirage that popped off and it is because of that the mirage has now 1 dodge. Power mirage has been left untouched for a long time. So the mirage problem (and the mesmer problem to an extend) is condis. You can only fix this with radical changes if you want a dynamic class like thief is and mesmer should be/used to be. Nerf Patches proves my point blatantly.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Zinzon.4081 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zinzon.4081 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zinzon.4081 said:The whole condi mesmer vs power mesmer imbalance comes from clone applying damaging condition, their dps is significally stronger than the power mesmer. It's not normal to be able to auto-attack as 4 and stack damaging condition that each deals dmg based on mesmer condition dmg while power mesmer illusion are not based on mesmer power or barely. That's the core imbalance there. Either remove dmg condis on auto attack and buff condis main skills for mesmer or straight up use real illusion stats. That's the real oversight I think. Condi mesmer will always be so toxic as long as clone apply condis. Imagine clones doing 500-1000 dmg on power instead of the 10-20 dmg they do! That's the current situation with condi mesmer haha.

Also for mirage, just remove ambush on dodge. Ambush on stealth and distorsion and it would be totally fine. Nobody can deal with a burst of condis/power on each of mesmer dodge...

If I got a sugary cookie every time someone with absolutely no idea about mirage suggests changes to mirage I would have diabetes. Please stop.

I forgot to add that the double dodge will be roll back. I have questions on your opinion of healthy game design... Let's imagine for 1 sec backstab on dodge roll for thief. That's essentially what mirage gets ¯_(ツ)_/¯. Maybe a lesser backstab but still a backstab... Mirage design IS toxic. It can't be balanced if you don't modifiy the design just like they prove by removing a dodge roll.

Now for the condis mesmer dps on clone, the argument is valid and is the MAIN reason the whole mesmer class is in trash tier atm. They drag down power mesmer because their kit is toxic and just uninterractive and power mesmer suffer from it trait wise and ability wise...

meta mirage uses sword and axe, both of those weapons clones never hit anything and thus dont provide anything due to condi on auto.thief has lessler backstab on dodge, its called bound and also gives them 10% dmg boost, nobody uses it cuz dash is even more busted.stop typing, you have no clue about mirage.

I'd like to believe he's referencing staff and scepter, which have both been neutered in part due to clone auto dps. Staff especially, which was the target of many complaints back when the Chaos/Sage+Earth rune build was meta.

I still remember the forum posts "It just poops out clones and afks and lets the clones do all the work while spamming invulns and evades".

If the suggestion to remove condi on clone would change anything, It would be enabling them to undo the harsh nerfs to scepter and

especially

staff, but that would require reworking the entire spec. There are better ways to rework mirage.

Everyone that plays mirage knows what he means, but he doesnt know, and he types about it.Its the matter of principle, the least he can kitten do before coming here and typing is educate himself how the spec is played.Personally bunker weaver pisses me off, I have no clue how it works so Im not going on forums to whine about it and post about "reworks"Clone autos suck, scepter clone hits for 300, it misses 50% of the time too and attacks at max range so 1 pixel of movement dodges it. Only clone that actually hits anything is staff one for about ~800-900dmg every ~2s assuming the orb bounces and clone is not casting out of range.And ironically the 3 best IH clones are1 Axe2 GS3 SwordAnd they are not used, wow its almost like something else is the issue, what a concept.

You just have an incredibly biased opinion about mirage... I am probably too, but I played every profession and their meta build and one of the most cancer kit is mirage and it's condi mirage that popped off and it is because of that the mirage has now 1 dodge. Power mirage has been left untouched for a long time. So the mirage problem (and the mesmer problem to an extend) is condis. You can only fix this with radical changes if you want a dynamic class like thief is and mesmer should be/used to be. Nerf Patches proves my point blatantly.

the only thing you have proved is that you have no clue about mirage yet you feel entitled to proposing balance changes, you are forums in a nutshell

[Zinzon.4081]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zinzon.4081 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zinzon.4081 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zinzon.4081 said:The whole condi mesmer vs power mesmer imbalance comes from clone applying damaging condition, their dps is significally stronger than the power mesmer. It's not normal to be able to auto-attack as 4 and stack damaging condition that each deals dmg based on mesmer condition dmg while power mesmer illusion are not based on mesmer power or barely. That's the core imbalance there. Either remove dmg condis on auto attack and buff condis main skills for mesmer or straight up use real illusion stats. That's the real oversight I think. Condi mesmer will always be so toxic as long as clone apply condis. Imagine clones doing 500-1000 dmg on power instead of the 10-20 dmg they do! That's the current situation with condi mesmer haha.

Also for mirage, just remove ambush on dodge. Ambush on stealth and distorsion and it would be totally fine. Nobody can deal with a burst of condis/power on each of mesmer dodge...

If I got a sugary cookie every time someone with absolutely no idea about mirage suggests changes to mirage I would have diabetes. Please stop.

I forgot to add that the double dodge will be roll back. I have questions on your opinion of healthy game design... Let's imagine for 1 sec backstab on dodge roll for thief. That's essentially what mirage gets ¯_(ツ)_/¯. Maybe a lesser backstab but still a backstab... Mirage design IS toxic. It can't be balanced if you don't modifiy the design just like they prove by removing a dodge roll.

Now for the condis mesmer dps on clone, the argument is valid and is the MAIN reason the whole mesmer class is in trash tier atm. They drag down power mesmer because their kit is toxic and just uninterractive and power mesmer suffer from it trait wise and ability wise...

meta mirage uses sword and axe, both of those weapons clones never hit anything and thus dont provide anything due to condi on auto.thief has lessler backstab on dodge, its called bound and also gives them 10% dmg boost, nobody uses it cuz dash is even more busted.stop typing, you have no clue about mirage.

I'd like to believe he's referencing staff and scepter, which have both been neutered in part due to clone auto dps. Staff especially, which was the target of many complaints back when the Chaos/Sage+Earth rune build was meta.

I still remember the forum posts "It just poops out clones and afks and lets the clones do all the work while spamming invulns and evades".

If the suggestion to remove condi on clone would change anything, It would be enabling them to undo the harsh nerfs to scepter and

especially

staff, but that would require reworking the entire spec. There are better ways to rework mirage.

Everyone that plays mirage knows what he means, but he doesnt know, and he types about it.Its the matter of principle, the least he can kitten do before coming here and typing is educate himself how the spec is played.Personally bunker weaver pisses me off, I have no clue how it works so Im not going on forums to whine about it and post about "reworks"Clone autos suck, scepter clone hits for 300, it misses 50% of the time too and attacks at max range so 1 pixel of movement dodges it. Only clone that actually hits anything is staff one for about ~800-900dmg every ~2s assuming the orb bounces and clone is not casting out of range.And ironically the 3 best IH clones are1 Axe2 GS3 SwordAnd they are not used, wow its almost like something else is the issue, what a concept.

You just have an incredibly biased opinion about mirage... I am probably too, but I played every profession and their meta build and one of the most cancer kit is mirage and it's condi mirage that popped off and it is because of that the mirage has now 1 dodge. Power mirage has been left untouched for a long time. So the mirage problem (and the mesmer problem to an extend) is condis. You can only fix this with radical changes if you want a dynamic class like thief is and mesmer should be/used to be. Nerf Patches proves my point blatantly.

the only thing you have proved is that you have no clue about mirage yet you feel entitled to proposing balance changes, you are forums in a nutshell

You bring nothing to the table yet criticize me for my insight of the class since the game launch and you admitted starting playing 1 year ago... All your post here are non-constructive and brings absolutly nothing to this thread. What is wrong with you man?

You need a coffee?

[mortrialus.3062]

@whoknocks.4935 said:My rework is simple.

-Mirage gets back 2 dodges.

-Dodge doesn't apply Mirage Cloak anymore, so you cannot use dodge while CC.

Replace F4 Distortion with Mirage Cloak.Instead of using dodge to proc Mirage Cloak for ambush and traits, you now have it on the F4 maybe with a 15-20 seconds cooldown, you press F4 and you gain Mirage Cloak and that's it.

Same as Chrono have Contiuum Split and lost Distortion.

You rework is more complex than searching for the proof of God's existence.

Keep it simple.

Mirage Cloak would need to have a 9.25 second cooldown on this system maintain similar levels of evade frames that distortion provides.

[Daishi.6027]

-Restore second evade.

-Change Infinite horizion clone ambushes to trigger when the Mirage actives their ambush themselves.

-Remove mirage mirrors entirely and implement a mechanic for flat endurance regeneration that doesn't require you to walk over something.

-Tweak jaunt so you get more uses, but nerf or remove the confusion.

-Restore Chaos Vortex output (maybe restore the might from 2018 too.)

-Ether Barrage (In pvp/wvw ONLY) Illusion ambushes apply weakness and vulnerability. (Either of the two conditions can be replaced with chill or cripple.) player ambush confusion and torment increase to 4 seconds.

-Imaginary Axes (in pvp/wvw ONLY) Illusion ambushes apply immobilize. Increase player ambush torment from 1 for 4 seconds to 2 for 8 seconds.

This solves a few issues:

1. Two handed weapon ambushes regardless of damage type apply damage and substantial pressure. This is consistent and easily recognizable for counterplay.
2. Single handed weapons including MH-Sword, but primarily for the condi weapons become utility focused FOR ILLUSIONS ONLY.
3. Changing infinite horizon to only trigger when the mirage commits to an ambush fixes any of the past issues where we had builds double down on defense and passively do damage, this matters even more so when you consider staff and scepter are channeled abilities; and since the normalization of Mirage cloak to be on par with other evades this gives a reasonable punishable window for any adept player to take advantage of.
4. Mirrors no longer become a unnecessary tell; while giving the reasonable about of evade a class like this should be afforded. insert every argument I've ever made regarding the double standards of every medium armor class' on demand access to evasion + the inferiority of illusions vs solid on demand stealth access here.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Daishi.6027 said:-Restore second evade.

-Change Infinite horizion clone ambushes to trigger when the Mirage actives their ambush themselves.

-Remove mirage mirrors entirely and implement a mechanic for flat endurance regeneration that doesn't require you to walk over something.

-Tweak jaunt so you get more uses, but nerf or remove the confusion.

-Restore Chaos Vortex output (maybe restore the might from 2018 too.)

-Ether Barrage (In pvp/wvw ONLY) Illusion ambushes apply weakness and vulnerability. (Either of the two conditions can be replaced with chill or cripple.)

-Imaginary Axes (in pvp/wvw ONLY) Illusion ambushes apply immobilize. Increase player ambush torment from 1 for 4 seconds to 2 for 8 seconds.

This solves a few issues:

1. Two handed weapon ambushes regardless of damage type apply damage and substantial pressure. This is consistent and easily recognizable for counterplay.
2. Single handed weapons including MH-Sword, but primarily for the condi weapons become utility focused FOR ILLUSIONS ONLY.
3. Changing infinite horizon to only trigger when the mirage commits fixes any of the past issues where we had builds double down on defense and passively do damage, this matters even more so when you consider staff and scepter are channeled abilities; and since the normalization of Mirage cloak to be on par with other evades this gives a reasonable punishable window for any adept player to take advantage of.
4. Mirrors no longer become a unnecessary tell; while giving the reasonable about of evade a class like this should be afforded. insert every argument I've ever made regarding the double standards of every medium armor class' on demand access to evasion + the inferiority of illusions vs solid on demand stealth access here.

Ether Barrage from the mesmer itself should be buffed in damage. It's kind of always sucked.

As much as I would love to buff condition mirage axe clone immobilization would actually be kind of insane? Like depending on the tuning we could see CI Mirage levels of immobilization lockdown. I think Cripple would be strong without the risk of becoming that oppressive.

Overall I like all of this though.

[Daishi.6027]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:-Restore second evade.

-Change Infinite horizion clone ambushes to trigger when the Mirage actives their ambush themselves.

-Remove mirage mirrors entirely and implement a mechanic for flat endurance regeneration that doesn't require you to walk over something.

-Tweak jaunt so you get more uses, but nerf or remove the confusion.

-Restore Chaos Vortex output (maybe restore the might from 2018 too.)

-Ether Barrage (In pvp/wvw ONLY)

Illusion ambushes

apply weakness and vulnerability. (Either of the two conditions can be replaced with chill or cripple.)

-Imaginary Axes (in pvp/wvw ONLY)

Illusion ambushes

apply immobilize. Increase

player ambush

torment from 1 for 4 seconds to 2 for 8 seconds.

This solves a few issues:

1. Two handed weapon ambushes regardless of damage type apply damage and substantial pressure. This is consistent and easily recognizable for counterplay.
2. Single handed weapons including MH-Sword, but primarily for the condi weapons become utility focused FOR ILLUSIONS ONLY.
3. Changing infinite horizon to only trigger when the mirage commits fixes any of the past issues where we had builds double down on defense and passively do damage, this matters even more so when you consider staff and scepter are channeled abilities; and since the normalization of Mirage cloak to be on par with other evades this gives a reasonable punishable window for any adept player to take advantage of.
4. Mirrors no longer become a unnecessary tell; while giving the reasonable about of evade a class like this should be afforded.
   insert every argument I've ever made regarding the double standards of every medium armor class' on demand access to evasion + the inferiority of illusions vs solid on demand stealth access here.

Ether Barrage from the mesmer itself should be buffed in damage. It's kind of always sucked.

As much as I would love to buff condition mirage axe clone immobilization would actually be kind of insane? Like depending on the tuning we could see CI Mirage levels of immobilization lockdown. I think Cripple would be strong without the risk of becoming that oppressive.

Overall I like all of this though.

For Ether barrage are you referring to the condi stacks or the damage coefficient?

And I agree that may be a bit too much, My thought was mostly being tied to one weapon making it less omnipresent and something players can play around while being attached to the fragile clones. But if that did pose to much of a problem cripple would be reasonable.

[Yasai.3549]

Mirage should be reduced to 2 clones max and IH made baseline.

2 Dodges can return, and Mirage Cloak is fine for the most part, but the traits that make Mirage Cloak extremely powerful should be adjusted or nerfed (Stuff like Mirage Mantle which gives Protect after Mirage Cloak wears off and Sand Shards which deals Bleed in AoE on Mirage Cloak)