Delete holo and herald

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Neither has ever had any positive impact on the state of PvP, both keep on being problematic regardless of the state of meta.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:Neither has ever had any positive impact on the state of PvP, both keep on being problematic regardless of the state of meta.

While true, the solution to the issue does not involve deleting them.

The problem isn't the classes, its ANets intense neglect of anything PvP related. Thats why things have gotten so bad.

[Stallic.2397]

I've seen someone post elsewhere, but Holo has the damage of a roamer and the sustain of a bruiser. That's why it's problematic and such a carry spec. Can't explain it any better

[Shiyo.3578]

@Stallic.2397 said:I've seen someone post elsewhere, but Holo has the damage of a roamer and the sustain of a bruiser. That's why it's problematic and such a carry spec. Can't explain it any better

Yes, this is the EXACT issue. Jack of all trades, master of all cannot be in a RPG, especially not a PvP one.

[Kuma.1503]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Stallic.2397 said:I've seen someone post elsewhere, but Holo has the damage of a roamer and the sustain of a bruiser. That's why it's problematic and such a carry spec. Can't explain it any better

Yes, this is the EXACT issue. Jack of all trades, master of all cannot be in a RPG, especially not a PvP one.

Herald is balanced by being complete hot garbage in PVE :^)

/s

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:Neither has ever had any positive impact on the state of PvP, both keep on being problematic regardless of the state of meta.

That Thief and Mesmer remain in the game is evidence that this type of strategy just doesn't appeal to ANET.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:Neither has ever had any positive impact on the state of PvP, both keep on being problematic regardless of the state of meta.

That Thief and Mesmer remain in the game is evidence that this type of strategy just doesn't appeal to ANET.

Thief doesn't 'do it all' as Shiyo nicely put it. Neither does mesmer - at least, currently. For example, which ones are harder to drive off-point due to sustain issues; mesmer/thief or rev/holo?

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:Neither has ever had any positive impact on the state of PvP, both keep on being problematic regardless of the state of meta.

That Thief and Mesmer remain in the game is evidence that this type of strategy just doesn't appeal to ANET.

Thief doesn't 'do it all' as Shiyo nicely put it. Neither does mesmer - at least, currently. For example, which ones are harder to drive off-point due to sustain issues; mesmer/thief or rev/holo?

You said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:Neither has ever had any positive impact on the state of PvP

That isn't a statement of fact, or even an argument, but an emotional statement. You "don't like" Herald and Holo. You also are clear that you are referencing their entire history in the game, and not just an issue of the current state/lack of balance.

I guarantee you if it were put to a popular vote of emotional responses on this forum, Mesmer and Thief would be the first to fall before the DELETE key.

Other than that, what are you really expecting as a reply? "I'm sorry you feel that way"?

[Kodama.6453]

I think everyone is aware that deleting elite specs from the game is not an option.

If you want herald and holosmith nerfed, then a better course to achieve your goal is actually providing suggestions how you think these should get nerfed. But they won't get deleted and asking them to do so will just get taken as rambling they won't take serious.

[Shiyo.3578]

Herald shouldn't have a reveal. As stupid as stealth is, it's just random bloat for the class to have reveal.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Kodama.6453 said:I think everyone is aware that deleting elite specs from the game is not an option.

If you want herald and holosmith nerfed, then a better course to achieve your goal is actually providing suggestions how you think these should get nerfed. But they won't get deleted and asking them to do so will just get taken as rambling they won't take serious.

holo hits like absolute truck due to having every dmg bonus they could hope for.% dmg bonus when in forge, vulnerability for extra damage. massive stacks of might AND they can afford to go glass amulet while remaining fairly beefy.1 Nerf corona vulnerability from 8 to 62 Nerf Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit pulsing might from 2 for 6s to 1 for 8/10s ( lowers average number, takes longer to ramp up the damage and lowers the healing due to alchemy trait )3 nerf barrage from 0.5 to 0.454 dont buff fucking shield

[Kodama.6453]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

holo hits like absolute truck due to having every dmg bonus they could hope for.% dmg bonus when in forge, vulnerability for extra damage. massive stacks of might AND they can afford to go glass amulet while remaining fairly beefy.1 Nerf corona vulnerability from 8 to 62 Nerf Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit pulsing might from 2 for 6s to 1 for 8/10s ( lowers average number, takes longer to ramp up the damage and lowers the healing due to alchemy trait )3 nerf barrage from 0.5 to 0.454 dont buff kitten shield

As long as the first 3 changes are PvP/WvW changes only, I can live with that.We actually have to wait for the shield changes, tho. While they are upping the range of shield 4 and increasing the block duration of shield 5 by 0.5 seconds, the new trait for shield doesn't mention the recharge reduction anymore or the protection enhancements....

If these get deleted, then this might actually end up as a nerf for shield in total.Which would be weird, considering that they are stating that the functionality is fine so far, so I don't get why they would want to nerf these aspects.We will see tomorrow.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

holo hits like absolute truck due to having every dmg bonus they could hope for.% dmg bonus when in forge, vulnerability for extra damage. massive stacks of might AND they can afford to go glass amulet while remaining fairly beefy.1 Nerf corona vulnerability from 8 to 62 Nerf Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit pulsing might from 2 for 6s to 1 for 8/10s ( lowers average number, takes longer to ramp up the damage and lowers the healing due to alchemy trait )3 nerf barrage from 0.5 to 0.454 dont buff kitten shield

As long as the first 3 changes are PvP/WvW changes only, I can live with that.We actually have to wait for the shield changes, tho. While they are upping the range of shield 4 and increasing the block duration of shield 5 by 0.5 seconds, the new trait for shield doesn't mention the recharge reduction anymore or the protection enhancements....

If these get deleted, then this might actually end up as a nerf for shield in total.Which would be weird, considering that they are stating that the functionality is fine so far, so I don't get why they would want to nerf these aspects.We will see tomorrow.

Im speaking about pvp, dont know jack about wvw/pve balance to be making suggestions on a class I dont play.And these nerfs are REALLY tame, in fact its propably ~5% dmg nerf at best that would leave holo as number 1 class still, but its better to keep making small nerfs untill the spec lands in the right spot then just fucking gut it mesmer style with -50% nerfs and trait removal.

Other things to look at.1 holo leap low cd they could up the cd from 2s to 3s/4s and leave it as it is or increase CD to something bigger like ~8s and increase its damage to compensate2 Explosive entrance is busted, but fixing it would nerf core, it should realistically eat a 66% nerf to be in line with other traits of its kind or at least make it not able to crit, but as I said it would hit core too.3 Holo 5, they could up the aoe from 300 to 360 imo.

[Ysmir.4986]

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Stallic.2397 said:I've seen someone post elsewhere, but Holo has the damage of a roamer and the sustain of a bruiser. That's why it's problematic and such a carry spec. Can't explain it any better

Yes, this is the EXACT issue. Jack of all trades, master of all cannot be in a RPG, especially not a PvP one.

Herald is balanced by being complete hot garbage in PVE :^)

/s

And yet herald is the most oppressive thing in wvw aside scourge.

[Xca.9721]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:Neither has ever had any positive impact on the state of PvP, both keep on being problematic regardless of the state of meta.

That Thief and Mesmer remain in the game is evidence that this type of strategy just doesn't appeal to ANET.

Thief doesn't 'do it all' as Shiyo nicely put it. Neither does mesmer - at least, currently. For example, which ones are harder to drive off-point due to sustain issues; mesmer/thief or rev/holo?

But Thief is a roamer most of the time while Holo/Crev are duelists/teamfighters, of course they have more sustain. A power herald can´t hold a node for long either.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Xca.9721 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:Neither has ever had any positive impact on the state of PvP, both keep on being problematic regardless of the state of meta.

That Thief and Mesmer remain in the game is evidence that this type of strategy just doesn't appeal to ANET.

Thief doesn't 'do it all' as Shiyo nicely put it. Neither does mesmer - at least, currently. For example, which ones are harder to drive off-point due to sustain issues; mesmer/thief or rev/holo?

But Thief is a roamer most of the time while Holo/Crev are duelists/teamfighters, of course they have more sustain. A power herald can´t hold a node for long either.

Holo/rev are roamers/duelists/gankers/teamfighters/bruisers. Of course they'd have better sustain AND damage ...

[wasss.1208]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:holo hits like absolute truck due to having every dmg bonus they could hope for.% dmg bonus when in forge, vulnerability for extra damage. massive stacks of might AND they can afford to go glass amulet while remaining fairly beefy.1 Nerf corona vulnerability from 8 to 62 Nerf Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit pulsing might from 2 for 6s to 1 for 8/10s ( lowers average number, takes longer to ramp up the damage and lowers the healing due to alchemy trait )3 nerf barrage from 0.5 to 0.454 dont buff kitten shield

I can stand behind these. This is what should happen, instead of nerfing core aspects of an overachieving build. Instead of buffing shield, they could buff the shield trait, so people would think about using Inventions.

[Aeolus.3615]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Xca.9721 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:Neither has ever had any positive impact on the state of PvP, both keep on being problematic regardless of the state of meta.

That Thief and Mesmer remain in the game is evidence that this type of strategy just doesn't appeal to ANET.

Thief doesn't 'do it all' as Shiyo nicely put it. Neither does mesmer - at least, currently. For example, which ones are harder to drive off-point due to sustain issues; mesmer/thief or rev/holo?

But Thief is a roamer most of the time while Holo/Crev are duelists/teamfighters, of course they have more sustain. A power herald can´t hold a node for long either.

Holo/rev are roamers/duelists/gankers/teamfighters/bruisers. Of course they'd have better sustain AND damage ...

And support

[Leonidrex.5649]

@wasss.1208 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:holo hits like absolute truck due to having every dmg bonus they could hope for.% dmg bonus when in forge, vulnerability for extra damage. massive stacks of might AND they can afford to go glass amulet while remaining fairly beefy.1 Nerf corona vulnerability from 8 to 62 Nerf Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit pulsing might from 2 for 6s to 1 for 8/10s ( lowers average number, takes longer to ramp up the damage and lowers the healing due to alchemy trait )3 nerf barrage from 0.5 to 0.454 dont buff kitten shield

I can stand behind these. This is what should happen, instead of nerfing core aspects of an overachieving build. Instead of buffing shield, they could buff the shield trait, so people would think about using Inventions.

Hey, I have been playing games since before I have memory of anything, I have propably more exp with games then entire anet team combined and more, what do I know of balance lol.Its actually not hard, at all.Problem is that you usually have to give a crap, and most devs take balancing as a job to put as little effort as they need to and move on.something too strong? slap 50% nerf and move on doesnt fix anything.